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Minutemen Endorse Huckabee

The Republican candidates are tripping over each other in their quest to become the toughest on immigration. Mitt Romney has released his first attack ad on immigration while Rudy Giuliani now says he wanted to deport New York City's 400,00 undocumented residents. the undocumented deported from New York City. And now, the Minutemen have endorsed Mike Huckabee.

The founder of the Minuteman Project, the anti-illegal immigrant group, endorsed Republican Mike Huckabee on Tuesday....At a news conference hastily arranged to cope with a crippling ice storm, Huckabee brought out Minuteman head Jim Gilchrist, whose private group patrols the Mexican border on its own to keep out illegal immigrants.

"For months now, I've been searching for a candidate to support for president of the United States," said Gilchrist. He said he settled on Huckabee as the candidate whose plans were most likely to halt "this illegal immigrant invasion problem."

Ryan Lizza in the New Yorker explains why this Republican anti-immigration strategy may backfire and cost them the election. It's a long article, but here are some snippets:

“The emergence of Tancredoism as an ideological touchstone for two Republican front-runners is a stunning development,” Lizza writes, “another indication of the Party’s rejection of nearly everything associated with the approach taken by George W. Bush.” In the face of mounting anti-immigration rhetoric, the other candidates, including John McCain and Mike Huckabee, have had to respond to what has become “the dominant and obsessive issue of the Republican primaries.”

....If the Republicans continue, in the general election, to make immigration a central issue, they may find that it has much less currency on the national stage.

... In several election contests in the past two years, Republicans tried and failed to deploy immigration as a campaign weapon.” Meanwhile, some Democratic strategists are “quietly cheering” the fact that Republicans are making immigration a key issue. Simon Rosenberg, a Democratic strategist, tells Lizza, “The Bush strategy—enlightened on race, smart on immigration, developed in Texas and Florida with Jeb Bush—has been replaced by the Tancredo-Romney strategy, which is demonizing and scapegoating immigrants, and that is a catastrophic event for the Republican Party.”

As for Huckabee and McCain, Lizza writes:

“My own sense, from talking to Huckabee, a Southern populist, and McCain, a border-state senator, is that they are genuinely appalled by Romney’s tactics, not only because of the damage to their campaigns but also because of the damage they believe he’s doing to the Party’s image.” “He’s clearly distorted my record as well as my position,” Huckabee tells Lizza. “But I’m not interested in getting in a war with him to see which of us can be the meanest son of a gun running for President.” Nevertheless, last week Huckabee announced the Secure America Plan, which included tough language about enforcement and pressuring illegal immigrants to return home, leaving McCain as “the only Republican candidate who hasn’t folded in the face of Romney’s attacks.”

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  • Display: Sort:
    i'm not sure what, if (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:25:10 AM EST
    anything, this has to do with:

    1. iraq.
    2. afghanistan.
    3. mounting budget deficits/national debt/debt service costs.
    4. millions of uninsured/lacking basic medical care.
    5. etc.

    oh, wait, it does take attention away from these republican administration failings.

    while it's clearly an issue, it's not the only issue, unless you are part of rightwingistan nation, i guess.

    Why? (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Jgarza on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 01:52:05 AM EST
    Does Huckabiggot want to quarantine all the Mexicans too? Maybe he can stick them all in a camp, with people with HIV, and those who chose to worship the devils brother, or as us liberals call them Mormons.

    "Huckabiggot" (none / 0) (#3)
    by Plutonium Page on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:38:16 AM EST
    Awesome nickname.  Wish I could rate you higher than a 5 ;-)

    Parent
    Concur 100% (none / 0) (#5)
    by scribe on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:37:41 AM EST
    I think that may have surpassed "Rudy Cue Ball" and "Thuggiani", but I dunno whether it tops "Deadeye" Dick Cheney.

    Parent
    Concur (none / 0) (#56)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:19:02 PM EST
    It is even better than Hairdo Edwards.

    Parent
    Gee...I wonder why (5.00 / 0) (#14)
    by TomStewart on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:53:24 PM EST
    Iraq isn't a bigger issue for Repubs? It's number one with the general populace. They really don't seem that interested in talking about it all.

    As for demonizing illegal immigrants, since when as racism and xenophobia not worked for the Republicans? They don't really want to solve the problem (go after the US employers, end trade deals that encourage the government of Mexico to screw their workers), it's just another way to beat up brown people and excite their base. Nothing will be done, because then what will they use next election?

    Maybe another Rethug (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:04:13 PM EST
    strategy should be to point out how some of the quasi-pagan Holiday traditions of some illegals connect with the War on Christmas.

    But, Glen Beck and Michael Savage probobly have that covered already.

    Parent

    Mostly because (1.00 / 0) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:07:17 PM EST
    the news stories have diminished greatly as the surged has succeeded greatly...

    If success continues you can expect the MSM to report even less... they hate good news about Iraq or the war on terror...so you can expect the issue to become smaller.

    Don't it just frost you??

    Link

    Parent

    The 'surge' succeeded? (5.00 / 0) (#33)
    by TomStewart on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:37:46 PM EST
    Really?

    Great! That means that Iraq now has a functioning government and we can go home!

    No, it doesn't? But George said that was the goal, to give the Iraq government 'breathing room'. Then the 'surge' hasn't succeeded and we're still stuck in this war of choice with no end in sight.

    But the repubs are too busy spreading hate and measuring their dick size to figure a way out.    

    Parent

    Really?? (1.00 / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:59:12 PM EST
    I didn't know that you were the one who established the goals..

    And you have nailed me ....ouch and sigh..... on my verbage and my nounies and my complete something or other..

    the surge is succeeding

    There. Feel better??


    Parent

    Huh? (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by TomStewart on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:09:27 PM EST
    Jim, are you trying NOT to make any sense?

    I didn't set the goals for the surge the Bush administration did, and I quoted them in my post, the substance of which you ignored completely.

    Really, if you bring nonsense up (and off topic as well, but there ya go), expect to be called on it. Once called on it, try and defend it.

    Parent

    Sense?? (1.00 / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:22:56 PM EST
    Please feel free to call away.

    Parent
    hehe (1.00 / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:27:05 PM EST
    But the repubs are too busy spreading hate and measuring their dick size to figure a way out.    

    You obviously know more about that than I do.

    Personal experience, eh??

    Parent

    hoho (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by TomStewart on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 02:30:42 AM EST
    "Personal experience, eh??"

    Ow. I am cut by your razor-like wit. Ow. Stop it.


    Parent

    It was your comment. (1.00 / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 08:37:30 AM EST
    And now your feelings are hurt??

    hehe

    Parent

    Wow (5.00 / 0) (#82)
    by TomStewart on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 01:01:24 PM EST
    You really are clueless.

    Parent
    Oh really?? (1.00 / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 02:27:11 PM EST
    I find it absolutely screamingly funny that you can complain about anything after making such a tasteless comment.

    And trust me. I restrained myself in replying just out of good taste.

    Parent

    That cartoon seals it for me (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:22:38 PM EST
    Why no Nation link?

    Parent
    You tell me... (1.00 / 0) (#45)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:01:22 PM EST
    Maybe I just didn't want to waste one...

    Parent
    NPR Democratic Candidates' Debate (none / 0) (#17)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:06:40 PM EST
    12/4/2007. Transcript. Topics: Iran, China, immigration.

    Parent
    The prosecution rests (none / 0) (#18)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:10:43 PM EST
    Don't you mean persecution? (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:24:29 PM EST
    Nice (none / 0) (#31)
    by TomStewart on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:28:48 PM EST
    but I wasn't talking about the so-called 'debates', I was refering to what they are shoveling out to their 'base'. More hate, fear and nonsense, because that seems to be what the primary voters want to hear.

    Sad.

    Parent

    I notice he referenced (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:37:10 PM EST
    the Democratic debates.

    Haint no Minutemen endorsin' them candidates yet.

    Parent

    Are you sure (none / 0) (#21)
    by HeadScratcher on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:40:59 PM EST
    I seem to remember the 'debates' being contentious about Iraq, tax policy (see Huckabee's 'Fair Tax' plan), deficits and spending, etc...

    While they may be tone deaf to the general populace, issues are being discussed...

    Parent

    If you're talking to me, yes, (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:17:58 PM EST
    I am sure. Iran, China, immigration. Feel free to peruse the linked debate transcript.

    Parent
    Any truth to the rumour (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:39:26 PM EST
    that the Minutemen were originally nicknamed by their wives?

    Naw, it was their girlfriends.... (1.00 / 0) (#22)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:00:48 PM EST
    Those cigar humidifiers and blue dresses get'em every time...

    Plus a little rough sex... you know faking saying "no" when they know they really want it....

    tehe

    (sarcasm alert)

    Parent

    Leave it to our resident (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:27:16 PM EST
    "moderate social liberal" to turn it into an anti- President Clinton joke. Almost makes me want to support HRC, just to watch the exploding heads.

    Parent
    And it takes our (1.00 / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:40:59 PM EST
    resident Laftie With No Sense of Humor

    to complain.

    Perhaps if you can't take it you shouldn't pass it out.

    Oh.... and I forgot the real whizzer that gets'em really steamed and all melty...

    Dropping their pants in front of a female employee in a hotel room while begging for oral sex.

    Okay okay... they don't beg

    ;-)

    Parent

    Was that your personal experience? (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:48:27 PM EST
    Who says I have no sense of humor?

    Parent
    Was what?? (1.00 / 0) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:54:27 PM EST
    No. I don't smoke and I never wear BLUE dresses.

    lol...

    Parent

    BTW (1.00 / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:43:39 PM EST
    As a social liberal I caee about US citizens. Not people who enter illegally and take jobs from US citizens..

    Take care of your own lawn next yeatr.

    Parent

    Seems to me... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Plutonium Page on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:41:57 AM EST
    ... that Gilchrist is more of a Paulbot than a Huckabee fan.  Ron Paul must be feeling sad and left out right now.

    Oh well, Paul has the white nationalist support, so I guess he'll have to make do with that.

    Debate today (none / 0) (#6)
    by Jgarza on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:35:51 AM EST
    So the last Iowa debate is tonight.  What do you think they will attack him on, if anything?

    This guy thinks women should serve their husbands, people with HIV should be sent to camps, and that Mormons worship the devils brother.  What do republicans think is his biggest flaw though? Allowing children of immigrants to be eligible for scholarships.

    That is compassionate conservatism for you!

    Don't worry (1.00 / 0) (#24)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:11:49 PM EST
    Huckabee has no chance, no matter how much you want it, that he will win the nomination.

    Romney and Thompson

    Rudy and Thompson

    vs

    Hillary and someone who can stand her..

    Bill??? Naw... he can't either.

    Parent

    Actually, I think (none / 0) (#7)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:46:38 AM EST
    The Republican candidates are tripping over each other in their quest to become the toughest on illegal immigration.
    would be more accurate. As well they should be.

    It Is No Coincidence (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 12:25:27 PM EST
    That the neo-nazis in Germany and America consider immigration their biggest issue. Fascists have always propped up foreigners as a dangerous threat. The rise of extreme nationalism and right wing authoritarianism are the biggest threats, not immigration.

    Everything in the State, nothing outside the State, nothing against the State.

    Mussolini


    Parent

    squaky's definition of (1.00 / 0) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:13:30 PM EST
    extreme nationalism..

    "God Bless America"

    "Close the borders"

    Parent

    Bumperstickers (5.00 / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:17:23 PM EST
    masquerading as thought probobly dont even qualify for the extreme nationalism competition.

    Parent
    Jondee (none / 0) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:16:42 PM EST
    I'll just add you to the list.

    Parent
    well your flag decal (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 06:45:19 PM EST
    won't get you into heaven anymore, it's already overcrowded, from your dirty little war. now jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason's for, so your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore!

    Parent
    so you believe in open border? (none / 0) (#9)
    by HeadScratcher on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 01:18:30 PM EST
    I take it that you don't believe the government should have any right to limit LEGAL immigration nor should they limit any ILLEGAL immigration. That's fair, I just want to make sure that's your point.

    Parent
    Read Again (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by glanton on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 01:29:14 PM EST
    Maybe the point being, the issue is overblown.

    Parent
    Read Again (none / 0) (#12)
    by HeadScratcher on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:41:16 PM EST
    I asked a question and you didn't give me an answer. That's ok.

    I agree that the issue is somewhat overblown (though I think it dovetails with other issues, but that's for another time), but I'm tired of people calling others who believe in orderly immigration racists or facists.

    Parent

    Read Yet Again (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by glanton on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:44:42 PM EST
    You were responding to squeaky, not to me.  And squeaky's post (and link, which I sicnerely doubt you read) was about the fascist tenor of demagogues attempting to convince people of the dangerous and silly lie that this is some big, defining issue.

    Parent
    You say, (none / 0) (#19)
    by HeadScratcher on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:38:00 PM EST
    This is dangerous and silly lie that it's a big, defining issue.

    Okay, just because you (or someone else) says it doesn't make it so. Nor does it make it something I agree or disagree with.

    To some people, this issue says something (either bad or good) about the makeup of the country's ideals. That isn't something silly or dangerous.

    Both of my parents were immigrants and, as a first generation American, I have a hard time putting into words what this country means to me as opposed to the hatred I have for my parent's country of origin.

    Having said that, and I think Dems and progressives miss this (and Repubs do on other issues as well) is that policies don't just speak about individual problems but to a larger voice as to what the country stands for.

    Don't kid yourself, this could play out as a huge issue in the upcoming elections. Look how bad Sen. Clinton stumbled when asked about drivers licenses....

    Parent

    Exactly why is illegal immigration a major problem (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:20:45 PM EST
    I concede that any violation of the law is a problem. The question is how big a problem.

    Speeding is a problem, as is robbery. Which is the bigger threat.

    In that vein, Iraq, the economy, Health care, restoring the constitution and illegal immigration. Which of these issues is the most pressing today? Is illegal immigration a major problem or a minor one and why?

    Personally I think it is a minor problem and an excuse for GOP scapegoating.

    Why do you perceive it to be a major problem?

    Parent

    And the answer is... (1.00 / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:11:14 PM EST
    Why do you perceive it to be a major problem?

    Because there are 13,000,000 of them in the US.

    Because they are costing US taxpayers hard earned dollars.

    Because they have demonstrated no loyalty to thus country.

    Parent

    Because other than (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:24:03 PM EST
    Gays, abortion, how we should all be hiding under our beds from tare-ists you dont have much else to stir up your (base) base.

    Parent
    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:42:33 PM EST
    That is the typical right wing position, from Neo-nazis to Mussolini.

    Too bad it is false.

    Do you get your numbers from the white eugenicist John Tanton and his group FAIR?

     BTW- the SPLC has designated Tanton's group FAIR a hate group.

    As for your bogus bedwetter numbers:

    The Immigration Prof Blog notes: "Immigrants pay taxes, in the form of income, property, sales, and taxes at the federal and state level. As far as income tax payments go, sources vary in their accounts, but a range of studies find that immigrants pay between $90 and $140 billion a year in federal, state, and local taxes." Nor do immigrants disproportionately use those taxpayer-supported resources.

    Indeed, a study conducted by the Urban Institute found the following: "Overall, annual taxes paid by immigrants to all levels of governments more than offset the costs of services received, generating a net annual surplus of $25 billion to $30 billion."

    Orincus


    Parent

    FAIR Who is that?? (1.00 / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:40:40 PM EST
    Nope, I prefer to use the Udall Report, thoughtfully provided to us by a sometimes blogger and open border dude, tnthorpe.  

    The total cost in 2004 of Arizona Health Care Cost Containment System (AHCCCS),
    Arizona's Medicaid program, was $4.3 billion of which an estimated $641.9 million was
    incurred by immigrants. Of the $641.9 million in AHCCCS costs associated with
    immigrants, $477.4 million was incurred by non-citizens.

    The total for non-citizens includes both people here on visas, as well as illegally. 350,000, or approximately 56.5% are illegal, given a total for medicaid cost as $270,000,000.

    Link

    Link

    As for bedwetting, I see that you bring up the subject again, so it must be a recurring problem that you suffer. I suggest you seek psychological help.


    Parent

    Typical PPJ Dishonesty (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:08:14 PM EST
    You forgot to mention this:

    Immigrants Add Nearly $1 Billion Annually to Arizona's Economy

    A report by the Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy at The University of Arizona estimates that immigrants in Arizona generate more than three dollars in taxes for every two dollars they incur for government services, such as education, health care and law enforcement, for a net economic gain approaching one billion dollars.

    link

    Parent

    Tty to grasp this concept (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 08:27:35 AM EST
    The jobs that the illegal aliens take exist of and by themselves. They don't exist because an illegal alien takes them.

    So if there were no illegals the jobs would be taken by US citizens.

    So there is no gain because the illegals take a job.


    Parent

    you really should (5.00 / 2) (#87)
    by tnthorpe on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 07:44:01 PM EST
    stop using a report that means exactly the opposite of what you claim it means, since the report documents that the economic contribution made by immigrants is larger than their associated costs. Typical of you to get it wrong over and over.

    But then it's become typical fare for facts to be spun into their opposites by conservatives who not only can't see the forest for the trees, but keep thinking that the trees are rocks.

    Parent

    I love the report because you are the (1.00 / 0) (#89)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:19:05 PM EST
    one who brought it here.

    Thanks.

    Now try and grasp this.

    The jobs the reports claim that the illegals have do not exist because the illegals are here.

    Now let's say it again.

    The jobs are independent of the nationality of those who take them.

    Now, another itsy bitsy step.

    If the illegals aliens weren't here, the jobs would be taken by US citizens.

    So the contribution of the illegal aliens is actually a zero sum game in which if they are removed they are replaced.

    There is no gain in them being here to the total.

    Try it another way.

    Put 100 $1.00 bills in a pile. That is your gross wages, taxes, etc. Now. Take $1.00. Now. Put $1.00 in.. the total remains $100.

    The only possible way illegal aliens could add anything is to do something in addition to what is already being done.

    Now. A giant step.

    So since they add nothing additional, every dollar that is spent on them is a dollar that would not be spent on them if they were not here.

    Illegal aliens are costing us billions of dollars.

    Parent

    you try and grasp this (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by tnthorpe on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 09:23:59 AM EST
    Having a so-called conversation with you here is like being pecked to death by an anti-immigrant duck. You contort facts, simply misstate things, fabricate material, and on and on in your rage against undocumented workers.

    I am totally unimpressed by anything on this subject you have written.

    Your grasp of economic reality isn't even adequate to an understanding of the 18th century, let alone the 21st.

    You are not a serious interlocutor. You are an echo chamber for the far right blogs you love so well.

    Have a really nice day.


    Parent

    FAIR?? True.My responses are not fair to you (1.00 / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:56:26 PM EST
    And of course to pay taxes, the illegal aliens must have jobs...

    Laying aside the fact that this is not an economic issue, but a legal issue of national sovereignty it is plain that if the jobs had been taken by US citizens, the economic results would have been the same, or better. In other words, the jobs would have existed with or without the illegal aliens so the economics arguments are mox nix.

    But if you just accept the 8% number then the number of illegal aliens is around 1,840,000. Using the post's numbers of $58 million cost and $424.7 million "profit," then the gross revenue of $486 million paid to the state is a whooping $262.00 per illegal alien... That doesn't cover cost.

    If we assume a family of 4, that's around $1000. Said another way, if the family also has two kids in school then just the cost of school is in the $9000 plus range. Legal citizens are picking up the difference of $8000 or so.

    Link

    Parent

    Hahahahahaha (5.00 / 0) (#67)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:09:59 PM EST
    Now ppj is linking to his own BS. How low can you go. I am sure we have not seen the bottom yet.

    Parent
    You know Squeaky (1.00 / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 07:13:36 AM EST
    making inaccurate claims is a bad habit you have. I can't figure out if you are being dishonest, or dumb enough to think people can't read. That is especially true when the proof of your actions is one scroll up.

    You really must think people are stupid.

    I gave two links. One goes to the Udall Report and another to my previous comments, which I quoted. I did so because, frankly, I see no reason to keep telling you that 2 + 2 = 4.

    Parent

    The Ever shifting rationale. (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:25:12 PM EST
    Must be fear of Brown.

    Parent
    I love it when you try and (1.00 / 0) (#77)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 08:30:35 AM EST
    play the race card....

    My concern is that the illegal aliens are taking jobs from US citizens.

    That would be citizens of all colors, races, religions...

    Your lack of concern for your fellow citizens in favor of illegal aliens is very puzzling.

    Why do you hate your fellow citizens??

    Parent

    I am just pointing out the whole right wing (5.00 / 0) (#86)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 06:23:33 PM EST
     immigration thing is just playing the race card as you call it.

    I am perfectly willing to have a rational discussion on immigration.  Arguing that they are the biggest threat since OBl, as you do, isn't a recipe for a rational debate. I am not into scapegoating as you are.

    I rank immigration lower than Iraq, lower than NHC, lower, than the economy and lower than restoring the constitution.

    Parent

    I have never ranked (1.00 / 0) (#88)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 09:04:44 PM EST
    "threats," or whatever that means....

    But anytime you have 13,000,000 people in a country that they aren't supposed to be in, that is a problem.

    A big problem.

    Parent

    Right (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by squeaky on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 10:22:49 PM EST
    Another out of context quote twisted by ppj to mean its opposite.
    Because there are 13,000,000 of them in the US.

    [ppj]: Because they are costing US taxpayers hard earned dollars.Because they have demonstrated no loyalty to thus country.

    Yes (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:42:33 PM EST
    That is the typical right wing position, from Neo-nazis to Mussolini.
    Too bad it is false.

    Do you get your numbers from the white eugenicist John Tanton and his group FAIR?

    FAIR Who is that?? (1.00 / 1) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:40:40 PM EST
    Nope, I prefer to use the Udall Report
    .  

    Contrary to your claims that immigrants are bad, Udall Report author Judith Gaz demonstrates that immigrant workers, both documented and undocumented, are good for the economy.

    Her own words:

    ""What the research shows is that immigrants, regardless of their legal status, make a significant contribution to our state's economy. Because immigrants are filling specific gaps in Arizona's labor force, they are making possible economic activity that otherwise would not occur," Gans said. The report estimates that immigrant workers generate about $44 billion, or 12 percent, of Arizona's economic output.

    [snip]

    Eliminating these workers, she said, would result in lost output of approximately $29 billion.

    link

    Parent

    Its a problem because it is a problem? (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 07:22:47 AM EST
    This is fallacy of circular logic.

    You never rank threats? So you don't know how to prioritize? A new reason among the many reasons I have asked you to stop voting based upon your conception of national security. But this does explain a lot.

    Parent

    Protect our sisters daughters (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Mon Dec 17, 2007 at 03:00:01 PM EST
    eh, Jim?

    On the "jobs" front, link me to any place you ever voiced a soupcon of concern over, say, outsourcing?

    Man, you're full of it.


    Parent

    Evidence for this proposition? (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 06:29:23 PM EST
    Please take some fish oil (1.00 / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:11:22 PM EST
    to improve your memory.

    Good grief Molly B, how quickly you forget

    And you were also in all the threads in my comments to Squeaky.


    Parent

    Lying? (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by squeaky on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:20:17 PM EST
    Or is it your sixth grade reading level holding you back from understanding the content of your links:

    From the author of your Udall report link:

    "What the research shows is that immigrants, regardless of their legal status, make a significant contribution to our state's economy," said Judith Gans, the report's principal author and manager of the Udall Center's immigration policy program.

    [snip]

    Gans said that non-citizen immigrants are a vital source of labor in key industries that employ large numbers of low-skilled workers such as construction, agriculture, manufacturing and various service industries. Eliminating these workers, she said, would result in lost output of approximately $29 billion.


    Parent

    And what about those (1.00 / 0) (#75)
    by Rojas on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 07:38:30 AM EST
    "low-skilled workers such as construction, agriculture, manufacturing and various service industries" workers who have to compete for wages with this ready supply of third world workers?
    Let them eat cake?

    Parent
    Yes. That is the attitude. (1.00 / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 08:32:39 AM EST
    So you have none. (5.00 / 0) (#71)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 11:23:25 PM EST
    Fear of Brown?

    Parent
    HeadScratcher (5.00 / 0) (#85)
    by glanton on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 03:14:07 PM EST
    Thanks for the response.  Previous posts were meant far less to debate the relative significance of the illegal immigration issue, as to clarify the post to which you were attempting to respond.

    Your answer to me demonstrates that you registered that clarification.

    Which is important.  Several on these boards have often confused disagreement over the importance of the issue, with an "open borders" policy.  This is a mistake if done accidentally.  Demonization if done on purpose.

    Now, as to this part of your retort:

    Don't kid yourself, this could play out as a huge issue in the upcoming elections. Look how bad Sen. Clinton stumbled when asked about drivers licenses....

    Neither I, nor squeaky, nor anyone so far as I can tell have denied that there is enormous potential for this issue to be magnified to obsenely large proportions, and to thus impact the elections.

    But then, that just testifies to the sadness of our political process.  

    Think Willie Horton, flag burning, Janet Jackson's nipple, and the ever dreaded spectacle of homosexuality in our pristeen nation.  What do all of these have in common, praytell?  

    Parent

    ah, the strawman vote chimes in. (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 03:04:34 PM EST
    i read the original post, and all the comments. on not one of them did i see anyone advocating for illegal immigrants, or "open borders". what they did note is that, in the grand scheme of things, it ain't top of the food chain of important matters.

    it may not even be in the top 10, unless you're trying to avert everyone's gaze from issues that actually directly impact them now, this very moment.

    Parent

    I thought (none / 0) (#57)
    by Wile ECoyote on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:20:24 PM EST
    that was a Chavez quote.

    Parent
    If it weren't an election year (none / 0) (#11)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 02:21:03 PM EST
    wedge-issue -- concerning a phenomena that's gone virtually unnoticed for a hundred years -- that Roves bastard children have pulled out of their collective sorry as*es.

    Parent
    What a wonderful (1.00 / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 08:34:27 AM EST
    comment.

    Will you have some education with that snark?

    Parent

    Sorry (none / 0) (#94)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:25:48 PM EST
    but, an ongoing diet of wingnut talk radio and graffiti from a Firecracker 500 Port-A-Jon dont count as "education".

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#34)
    by Claw on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:39:45 PM EST
    The media's hatred for the military and any reporting on military successes has been well documented.  I hear that members of the MSM have even been trying to communicate US mission details to Al Qaeda operatives in an attempt to thwart the surge.  Thankfully, through the judicious and perfectly legal use of water boarding, those responsible have been found out and dealt with appropriately.

    What a straight man you are!!!!! (1.00 / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:46:23 PM EST
    AP photographer Bilal Hussein was on the radar screen of US forces prior to his being detained in a chance encounter April 12, 2006. He was a stringer working in Fallujah who filed numerous reports and photos that seemed to need a high degree of cooperation from the terrorists. He has been in custody for 19 months and will soon face trial by the Iraqi government on charges related to his activities with Sunni insurgents in Fallujah and Ramadi. Evidence against him is expected to be given to the Iraqi government this week.

    How did you know???

    Parent

    Huckabee, Minutemen (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:51:33 PM EST
    Try to stay focused Uncle Troll.

    Why do you hate civilised, democratic, disourse -- and America?

    Parent

    I see that you, like Molly, (1.00 / 0) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:19:48 PM EST
    can't stand the truth.

    How does it feel to always be running off shouting nasties over your shoulder?

    hehe

    Parent

    discourse (none / 0) (#47)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 05:10:35 PM EST
    What do you mean (none / 0) (#37)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:44:53 PM EST
    "communicate to"; many in the liberal meadia already are Al Queda operatives. Which is why they never tell us The Surge is Working (bumpersticker available at Powerline),

    Parent
    Actually, Media spies aren't new (1.00 / 0) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:52:49 PM EST
    If you wanted to see the perfect example of the ethical and moral collapse of the Mainstream Media, you could not do better than a long article in the New Yorker of May 23, 2005. The article is entitled, "The Spy Who Loved Us." Written by a teacher at the University of Albany, named Thomas Bass, it's about a man named Pham Xuan An. Now very old, An was -- among many other things -- a correspondent in Saigon during the Vietnam War for Time magazine. He was apparently considered a particularly brilliant and well-informed correspondent and very well liked by his colleagues in the Western press corps during the war.

    He was also a Communist spy, working for the North Vietnamese

    Link

    Parent

    Check your blood suger (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by jondee on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 04:59:55 PM EST
    and revisit the thread topic.

    Besides, everybody already knows about our onece proud educational institutions being taken over by commie symps in the sixties (we wont even get into what they tried to do to our precious bodily fluids).

    Parent

    great movie, (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by cpinva on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 06:59:30 PM EST
    and one of the top 10 all-time greatest movie scenes in history; slim pickens riding a nuke down like a bull in a rodeo!

    Parent
    Dumb and dumber.... (1.00 / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 10:21:51 PM EST
    You wanted some AQ ops, and you got some AQ ops.

    Success is getting what you want.

    Happiness is wanting what you get.

    And you sure can't stand the truth.

    Parent

    "The truth" (5.00 / 0) (#84)
    by glanton on Thu Dec 13, 2007 at 02:46:40 PM EST
    Being, for social liberals everywhere, whatever the President and his cadre declare to be true.  All else is anti-American lies.

    Parent
    Seventy years ago (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Fri Dec 14, 2007 at 01:21:05 PM EST
    they called themselves National Socialist Liberals.

    Parent