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Biden-Palin VP Debate Live Blog - I

The Vice Presidential debate between Senator Joe Biden and Gov. Sarah Palin begins at 9pm ET on CNN. Big Tent Democrat, TChris, the TL Kid and I will be live-blogging.

The live blog stays below the fold so that it can be a bit wider than the front page allows. Just click on the "There's More" button or bookmark the permalink to go directly to it.

You can comment same as always in the comment section below. You also can send us live messages through the software. Only comments you post below will be visible to readers here. [More...]

< Homer Tries to Vote Obama | Post Debate Thread I: A Game Changer? >
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  • Display: Sort:
    I can't believe I'm going (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:44:22 PM EST
    to go into my bedroom and turn this on but I don't have anything else to do tonight other than laundry and there will always be laundry.  I'm not going to blog and watch though.  That seems like  putting too much effort into this whole deal to me.  I can't remember a VP debate garnering this much attention, but I can't remember Edwards/Cheney very well.

    My favorite (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:46:56 PM EST
    was the 1992 VP debate, where they turned on the cameras and I was like, "Holy crap! It never occurred to me that Perot has a VP!"  It's a shame Admiral Stockdale became such a punchline, he was a great American.

    Parent
    I feel the same way. I guess (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:47:21 PM EST
    I'm hopelessly addicted to politics.

    Parent
    Addiction (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by ZenNonna on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:03:15 PM EST
    I share your addiction. I read so many newspapers, magazines and blogs about politics.

    That is why I was so baffled by Palin's inability to name one newspaper or magazine. Even I could do that

    Parent

    i wonder how many people (none / 0) (#4)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:51:48 PM EST
    are watching just to see whether or not she Stockdales.  

    I think she will struggle with at least 2 questions as i believe talking points can only get you so far.  

    John McCain put her in an untenable position. Tyring to learn so much so fast (by her own admission she did not pay attention to the iraq war and my guess is that is consistent with her total world view).

    I don't believe it matters and the public just wants to see if there is a train wreck that has all the traffic stopped.

    McCain lost this election when the economy went bloggo, and he did not help himself with his completely maverratic on hisself.

    I have to put the kids down so I am taping it.  Wish i could read the blog along....

    Parent

    2 minutes in...I'm totally bored. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by DFLer on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:10:56 PM EST


    I'll state up front that I don't agree with her (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:16:21 PM EST
    on anything and I won't vote for McCain.  But she is very likable and coherent. Not like the Couric interviews at all.

    Maybe so (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:22:18 PM EST
    but she's full of it and using the Repub approach of spouting on and on with a million falsehoods, leaving the opponent on the defensive. So it sounds coherent but it ain't necessarily so.

    Biden says what the Dems always end up saying:
    I don't know where to start!

    No chance to go on about what's positive about Obama's plans.

    Parent

    Palin irritates me in the same (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Jjc2008 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:17:46 PM EST
    way George W did....it's the "I'm just a regular folk......." and it sounds put on and phony.  Now we know with W it was PHONY...and supposedly Palin really is middle class but she comes off as trying to be something she is not......

    And the cutsey stuff just turns me off....

    Yep (5.00 / 0) (#32)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:19:13 PM EST
    I get your point (5.00 / 0) (#194)
    by jar137 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:10:41 PM EST
    but I actually think she is middle class and of average intelligence and is being sincere. However, it doesn't make her appealing as a VP to me.

    Parent
    Boy, I never want to hear (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:18:44 PM EST
    'Joe Six-Pack and Hockey Mom' again. I find it insulting.

    It's actually condescending n/t (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:20:26 PM EST
    She may not answer the questions (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:18:47 PM EST
    but talk to the American people straight. Goddess help me.

    And would somebody please tell Palin and the other (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Jjc2008 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:21:15 PM EST
    government....WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT.  It's called democracy and as long as right wingers continue to get away with the "the government is the enemy" it hurts democracy.  WE, THE PEOPLE....
    and when we get bozos in office it is "We, the people" who put them there when we are lazy, uninformed and votes based on "whose more fun to have a beer with...."

    Ifill asks Biden if raising taxes on (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:21:21 PM EST
    $250k+ is tax warfare. Tells Palin she will ask question about McCain proposal to tax health benefits.

    Biden goes first. "Its simple fairness." 95% of people making under $100k will get a tax break. Simple fairness. This is not punitive. McCain wants to cut taxes billions of dollars to corporations and rich. Middle class is the engine of economy, McCain doesn't care about them.

    Palin: I question that redistribution of wealth that you espouse. Obama tax increases will hurt small businesses.  Middle class paying taxes is not patriotic. Todd and I are middle class. Government should get out of way. Live long and prosper.

    She is not answering questioning taxes on healthcare plan. Gwen asks her to respond.

    Palin: Tax credits! Tax credits are budget neutral. (????) Wants to erase artifical lines against states. Competing across state lines. She doesn't answer question about taxing health care benefits. Ifill doesn't press.

    Biden: we don't call middle class relief redistribution of income. We call it fairness. Small business owners making less than $250k would have no tax increase. FINALLY mentions how McCain would raise money for his healthcare plan, but would tax benefits from employer. Have to replace a $12k plan with a $5k check. "I call that the ultimate Bridge to Nowhere."  YAY JOE!!!

    Okay, she's GOP all the way, but (5.00 / 4) (#40)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:21:30 PM EST
    can I say that it's nice that for the first time in almost a quarter of a century, little girls (and boys) are growing up with a woman candidate on tv, running for vp?

    Out there in the tv audience may be a little girl who will grow up to be the Hillary Rodham Clinton of 2050.  And we'll need one, because we'll probably still be cleaning up after a Bush.

    We now return to your regular programming. . . .

    Thank you (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:23:29 PM EST
    I am finding that refreshing, anyway.

    Parent
    I don't like a hypocritical role model, though... (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:26:05 PM EST
    A role model needs to be a positive one. Palin is a snake.

    Parent
    I agree. (5.00 / 0) (#64)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:29:04 PM EST
    I don't find this refreshing at all.  I'll take the most hard-fought primary in recent memory over this VP pick any day.

    Parent
    Half of the little girls in the country (5.00 / 4) (#73)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:31:00 PM EST
    are growing up in GOP homes, so let's hope that they are not getting that message -- or the messages that little girls got from the primaries.

    I just want kids to see possibility.  It's an amazing difference for those of us who grew up being told that we ought only be nurses or teachers.  Everyone told me to be a teacher, so that if I had to work (!), I could work the same hours as my kids and be off with them in summers.

    No one told me, of course, that I could be a professor.  I never even had a woman professor until I was back in grad school -- at the age of 35.

    Think about it.  If the message is supposed to be hope, change, etc., this is the message to see.

    Parent

    Hear, hear! (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by sneezy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:32:01 PM EST
    To the snake comment.

    Parent
    and hear, hear! (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by sneezy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:33:42 PM EST
    to CC's comments about progress.  It ain't necessarily the change I hoped for, but it IS change.

    Parent
    I have the equal opportunity.... (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by sneezy on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:30:59 PM EST
    urge to hurl something at the TV.  

    So yeah, a Repub female who pi**es me off as much as a Repub male.  Despite the anger, I do see a certain amount of progress in that.

    Parent

    I can't see how this can be called progress. (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by tigercourse on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:36:36 PM EST
    We had a female Vp candidate 24 years ago who had no chance of winning. Now we have a female VP candidate who has almost no chance of winning. Does that mean in 24 years we'll have a female VP with almost a chance of winning? Progress?

    Parent
    Once every 24 years is very slow progress (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:40:07 PM EST
    sure.  So let's have tickets that look like America every time, and the odds will increase that we'll get a winner.

    Parent
    and obviously the same can be (none / 0) (#55)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:25:50 PM EST
    said for minorities..

    both very important...

    I just wish the woman would have been a better candidate (and maybe the AA, too, at this point)

    Parent

    The lines on CNN are fascinating (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:23:01 PM EST
    the women voters love Biden and Palin does nothing for them.  Biden leaves men cold for the most part.  Big disparity!

    I'm not a big fan of women (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:24:16 PM EST
    with masculine jawbones...

    I guess a lot of men are...

    Parent

    um, yeah. (5.00 / 0) (#58)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:27:03 PM EST
    that must be it.

    Parent
    I don't like squinty little eyes (none / 0) (#79)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:32:27 PM EST
    but I like Biden.  I like men for their minds.

    Parent
    Then I can't see how you like Biden. (2.00 / 0) (#85)
    by tigercourse on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:34:17 PM EST
    He's an idiot.

    Parent
    I'm watching C-Span... (none / 0) (#48)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:23:59 PM EST
    that stuff on CNN is irritating.

    Parent
    No lines. . . (none / 0) (#51)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:24:23 PM EST
    on the radio.

    Parent
    Maybe they got the lines crossed? n/t (none / 0) (#49)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:24:03 PM EST
    Not on this answer on energy (none / 0) (#52)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:24:39 PM EST
    They're called boobs, Ed. (none / 0) (#54)
    by sweetthings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:25:29 PM EST
    I kid, I kid.

    Mostly.

    Parent

    This debate sucks (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:28:04 PM EST
    It's a talking point fest.  And she's a great actor.

    I'm getting that feeling too.... (none / 0) (#70)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:30:55 PM EST
    heck of a lot of it :-P

    Parent
    If the debate sucks, that benefits (none / 0) (#77)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:31:59 PM EST
    Obama since McCain is said to need a "game-changer". She is a good actor. Didn't she take debate class in college?

    Parent
    Yes and no (none / 0) (#100)
    by Jerrymcl89 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:38:08 PM EST
    It can be argued that a draw for Palin is at least a borderline game-changer. Given Biden's experience, he's unlikely to massively screw up. If McCain needs to score an actual game changer, he'll need to do that against Obama.

    Parent
    Actually you have a good point there. (none / 0) (#111)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:41:36 PM EST
    I think the talking points. . . (none / 0) (#83)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:33:56 PM EST
    if that's what you want to call them, are actually quite substantive.  On both sides.  Of course, the ones coming from Biden are mostly true. . .

    Parent
    My point was that there is no follow up (none / 0) (#108)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:40:13 PM EST
    Palin can say whatever she wants with little rebuttal.

    Parent
    One thing for sure... (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:29:58 PM EST
    Palin never answers a question..she talks about whatever she wants to talk about and ignores what is put before her.

    who needs a moderator? (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:31:51 PM EST
    Palin just ignores the questions she doesn't want to answer and talks about what she wishes.

    Parent
    It is amazing (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:36:09 PM EST
    she gets asked a question and her answer is, i don't want to talk about that I want to talk about energy...lol

    Her method of debating is to memorize a 30 minute speech and, regardless of the question, to pick up on her prepared speech where she left off when the light came on the last time

    Parent

    I don't think she doesn't want to (none / 0) (#230)
    by jar137 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:25:49 PM EST
    I think when she does not have a prepared answer for the question asked, she just works in something she did prepare.  She also seems to be captivated when Biden speaks, or something is distracting her.  

    Parent
    Palin is Main Street? (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:30:16 PM EST
    her house in Wasilla is valued at nearly 600,000...
    that's main street in Wasilla?  man, when did Wasilla become Los Angeles...

    She also has 2 vacation properties (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:35:37 PM EST
    I don't. And Obama is going to increase my taxes!

    Parent
    Check the prices of everything (none / 0) (#96)
    by MoveThatBus on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:36:48 PM EST
    in Alaska. Because everything needs to be shipped in, prices are outrageous.

    Not sure why you are commenting on the value of her house, though. Do you know how long she's lived there and how much she paid for it? How do you suppose it compares to Biden's house?

    She's got so many real things that are pathetic and ripe for solid criticism that I hate to see anyone waste the opportunity to point out all those things that make her a terrible choice for VP.


    Parent

    Er (none / 0) (#101)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:39:07 PM EST
    Milk is expensive.  Real estate costs pennies, particularly in the outlying areas.

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#98)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:37:32 PM EST
    Real estate prices are dirt cheap in Alaska.  A $600,000 property would be worth millions down here.

    Parent
    Where's down here? (none / 0) (#182)
    by MoveThatBus on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:07:17 PM EST
    No much of a place in San Francisco, but quite the plush place in Phoenix.

    Not sure at all what this has to do with anything. She's still the least financially abundant of all 4 candidates.


    Parent

    She's losing it now. (5.00 / 2) (#76)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:31:56 PM EST
    Sounds like the skit from Saturday Night Live.  Her answer on global warming is absolute and complete gibberish.

    I don't know about her tanking yet, (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:34:29 PM EST
    but Biden is doing a good job of not making himself the story so far.

    Parent
    Yes, I think he's been great. (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:35:11 PM EST
    I've actually been impressed with him the whole election.

    Parent
    She may have started out okay (none / 0) (#80)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:33:33 PM EST
    but I think she's eventually going to botch it.

    Parent
    But the @#$@#$ (none / 0) (#82)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:33:47 PM EST
    CNN lines went up....now going up for Biden.....

    Parent
    This is maddening (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:34:07 PM EST
    It sucks there is no way to get her to answer these questions.  It is so clear she just doesn't know the answer.

    It's called BSing (5.00 / 0) (#90)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:35:25 PM EST
    I was guilty of it when I would try to fill in content in my college essays! LOL

    Parent
    Do you think the public will (5.00 / 0) (#94)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:36:35 PM EST
    see through her generalities? That's the whole key here of course.

    Parent
    She is insane. (5.00 / 0) (#93)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:36:29 PM EST
    I think it is far too obvious how fringe she is.  "I don't want to talk about the causes..." the causes of global warming?  Really?  The earth's cycles?  I think most people in the country understand that yes, humans are destroying our climate.  Anyone who saw the Olympics understands that.  

    Biden has gravitas tonight.  Which I think is more fitting for this week from hell than Palin's glittery pseudo-populism.  

    How does Biden remember everything he ever said???

    Oh heck (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:39:44 PM EST
    Why does Biden hedge on gay marriage?

    Nice sarcasm by Gwen.


    I caught that, too n/t (none / 0) (#109)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:40:28 PM EST
    Is it just me, (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:39:47 PM EST
    or is the level of disrespect coming from Palin is absolutely maddening?

    WHITE FLAG OF SURRENDER?! (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:43:36 PM EST
    Somebody had better hold me back. My TV is sweating bullets.

    Parent
    Biden is more convinced (5.00 / 5) (#112)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:41:38 PM EST
    that Obama has plans than Obama normally seems to be.  

    LOL! Hey, wait a minute... (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:44:36 PM EST
    Sorry but both stances on Iraq... (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:42:46 PM EST
    they're both wrong....the war is illegal and immoral.

    Yes Biden is representing (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:43:49 PM EST
    Obama very well.  No gaffes that I've heard.

    Palin is showing skill at dodging questions, which both she and Biden are guilty of tonight.

    He's really, really good. n/t (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:48:30 PM EST
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Steve M on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:44:06 PM EST
    The lines are really telling on the Iraq question.  The undecided voters loved Biden's answer, and when Palin started in about Democrats wanting to surrender, the lines went way down and didn't come back.

    I-racky, that makes me nuts... (5.00 / 1) (#122)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:44:31 PM EST


    Biden (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:45:41 PM EST
    McCain voted against funding the troops if there was a timeline. He conditioned his vote on something he didn't like.

    McCain said greeted like liberators, enough oil to finance, no difference between Shia and Sunni, I love him but he's been dead wrong and Obama has been right.

    YAY JOE!!!!!

    Why is she going there.... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by coast on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:46:36 PM EST
    this thing about funding the troops was all based on whether the bill had time tables or not.  Its not a winner.  I disagree with Obama and Biden on the time table.  You can not predict what will happen in the sixteen months after they possibly take offcie, so how can you say you'll end the war in sixteen months.

    Uh oh (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:47:14 PM EST
    Biden mentions madrassas. Will Palin say that Obama went to a madrassa?

    "Nucular"? (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:48:21 PM EST
    My God, she's as bad as Bush

    Achmadinijad is the islamist (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:49:18 PM EST
    Hagee, Falwell and Robertson...

    yet I bet Palin, like McCain, probably doesn't feel that Hagee, Falwell and Robertson are evil...

    she talks too fast (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:50:05 PM EST
    words and words and more words.

    "Blizzard of words" (5.00 / 1) (#141)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:52:38 PM EST
    Classic line from Gibson.  Gibson saw through her from the beginning.

    Parent
    She does throw in a lot of extra words (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:53:31 PM EST
    some of which go nowhere.  I'd hate to be transcribing her.

    Parent
    Jeez. Has anyone seen Bush and Palin. . . (5.00 / 2) (#138)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:51:12 PM EST
    in the same room at the same time?  She's like his one-chromosome-off clone.

    You said it. (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:53:10 PM EST
    As someone said in Bill Maher, "Bush in Drag"

    Parent
    First "I-rack" now "I-ran"... (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:52:27 PM EST
    From Palin, that is. I think it's a dog whistle to the GOP hard-liners. Like calling the Dems the "Democrat" Party.

    Stay frosty Joe (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:53:51 PM EST
    don't start talking about yourself in the third person and don't make your answers too long!

    Why din't anybody tell Biden (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by Blowback on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:54:22 PM EST
    to look at the camera, ALL THE TIME!

    Palin is the one who sounds patronizing (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:55:13 PM EST


    Empty answers. . . (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:29 PM EST
    They're both doing very well with what they have.  But Palin's answers are so very clearly (to me, anyway) completely empty of content, and Biden's are so full of wonkish policy knowledge.

    Parent
    This "I am so glad we agree..." (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by Jjc2008 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:55:20 PM EST
    IS CRAP......

    Palin Misquoted Petraeus . . . (5.00 / 2) (#150)
    by Doc Rock on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:55:25 PM EST
    . . . saying that he said it was the true center of the war on terror. No! He said that Afghanistan was! See the LA Times.

    Biden is on fire right now! (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:14 PM EST


    Ifill: has Bush been abject failure (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:17 PM EST
    on Israel?

    Palin: no, but I am glad to see that we both love Israel!!!!  Too much fingerpointing about the past, you don't look forward. We're going to forge ahead, change is coming. McCain has been the maverick, he has ruffled feathers. Change is coming.

    Biden: past is prologue. The question is how McCain's policies are going to be different than George Bushes.  JOE I LOVE YOU. YOU DA MAN.

    talking point, talking point, blah blah (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:24 PM EST
    talking point, blah blah no gays, blah blah kill islam, blah blah we are the western israel, blah blah drill baby drill blah blah talking point...

    that about sums it up...

    So . . . (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:24 PM EST
    we shouldn't blame Bush for our current horrific situation? We should just turn the other cheek?

    Thanks for the heads up Ms. Palin. I'll keep that in mind.

    But . . . bu . . but . . . (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:58:31 PM EST
    WE ARE KILLING CIVILIANS!

    Parent
    I like how he says "George bush's" (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:56:50 PM EST
    over and over. That was great.

    Go Joe (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:57:05 PM EST
    he asks for diff. between McCain and Bush policies.

    one thing about Palin, she's convincing in that (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by thereyougo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:57:27 PM EST
    mediocrity is indeed scarier than even I once thought.

    go back to Alaska Gov. Palin your family and your state needs you.

    Joe is now sweeping the floor with her now. He's so convincing! She's so so so...uh...clueless and unbelievable. Thats the word, she's unbelievable.

    Oh....she's definitely (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:57:49 PM EST
    reading from crib notes!

    nucuhlur weaponary (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:58:00 PM EST
    Her response to the trigger to use nuclear weapons is nonsensical.

    Palin is talking to herself! (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:59:35 PM EST
    Biden is countering her bull about Afghanistan and the camera caught Palin mumbling "Okay" to herself.

    She grins to herself (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:02:31 PM EST
    as Biden talks.

    She's on drugs. Or not taking enough drugs. The lucidity of her answers has been deteroriating steadily. Prepare for Putin's head to rear over Alaska's horizon.

    Parent

    Ear piece? (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:02:39 PM EST
    Palin sounds (5.00 / 1) (#167)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:01:20 PM EST
    condescending. Joe is the one who sounds focused and patient while Palin sounds in over her head.

    Bosniacs? (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:02:28 PM EST


    Small town in southern France. (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:03:19 PM EST
    Supporters of Tom Bosley (none / 0) (#172)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:03:03 PM EST
    for President in 2004.

    Parent
    She is so condescending (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:05:09 PM EST
    and mean-spirited.

    Is that the talking point (5.00 / 1) (#189)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:08:43 PM EST
    "mean and condescending"


    Parent
    What General McKiernan said and Palin didn't (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Doc Rock on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:05:20 PM EST
    "There is no magic number of soldiers that are needed on the ground to win this campaign," McKiernan said. "What we need is security of the people. We need governance. We need reconstruction and development." CNN

    Palin (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:05:44 PM EST
    Its so obvious i am not a Washington insider, cuz I just don't understand how you guys are doin things. First you supported the war, then you didn't.  Americans are hopin for that STraight Talk.

    OMG. I am exhausted listening to this crap. My blood is being saturated with deadly toxins from listening to this crap.


    I don't know about you, (none / 0) (#190)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:09:16 PM EST
    but I'm gonna have to take some pretty good drugs tonight to get to sleep. I'm going to be spewing acid for hours after this debate.

    Parent
    "John McCain knows how to win a war" (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:07:27 PM EST
    he does?  when has he ever won one?

    Palin's cutsey/folksy schtick (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:07:30 PM EST
    is like nails on a chalk board, every time.

    How is it going over on the CNN response graph? Or is it too hard to separate demeanor from content?

    You can't separate it (none / 0) (#193)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:10:34 PM EST
    It is just approval/disapproval.  Both Biden and Palin have been in the positive range most of the time. She dips negative more I think though, on a couple of the more egregious sutely things, come to think of it.

    Parent
    oops - sutely = cutesy in my typing (none / 0) (#196)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:11:15 PM EST
    Yikes (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:08:05 PM EST
    it's the "dead president" question!

    Palin: I challenge you again as to (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:08:15 PM EST
    whether you supported McCain's views, who knows how to win a war, he knows what evil is, and he knows how to learn from blunders in Iraq, he will know how to win a war, taking politics out of these war decisions. The pundits will tell us tomorrow who said what when.

    And the Eyerack, such as, South Africa, and they need maps, such as.....

    She's starting to wander in (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:08:15 PM EST
    her answers..btw, John McCain knows how to win a war and he's seen evil and he knows how to win a war.

    wasilla main street...i'm going (5.00 / 1) (#191)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:10:23 PM EST
    to be ill.

    "John McCain knows how to win (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:10:29 PM EST
    a war". Where would he have learned that?

    Wow, at this point I really do wish (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by Matt in Chicago on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:10:59 PM EST
    that Joe was at the top of the Ticket.  He sounds like he knows how to be there.

    Yea Biden (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:11:27 PM EST
    the "better off" point.

    Biden is doing the right thing (5.00 / 2) (#198)
    by Stellaaa on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:11:31 PM EST
    every time he attacks, he attacks McCain.  I wonder when the Democratic supporters will get that.  

    Scranton!!! (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:11:54 PM EST


    doggone it? (5.00 / 2) (#205)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:13:05 PM EST
    biden's wife has her reward in heaven? how patronizing can you be? if biden EVER talked down to Palin the way she's talking down to him, there would be a meltdown over the airways.

    What was that about more power for the VP? (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:14:33 PM EST
    in the Senate?

    "Say it ain't so Joe"... (5.00 / 2) (#209)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:15:03 PM EST
    that's why she asked if she could call him Joe.

    Palin says a schoolteacher's "reward is in heaven". Uh, for the time being, I'll take the salary increase.

    Uh oh (5.00 / 1) (#213)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:17:39 PM EST
    I think Palin blew the question of whether Cheney's view of the VP is the correct one.

    OUch!

    Palin endorses (5.00 / 1) (#214)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:17:42 PM EST
    Cheneyesque view of VP power under the Constitution. Constitution allows us "flexibility."

    Biden: Cheney has been most dangerous vice president in the history of the country.

    JOE, I LOVE YOU. YOU ARE DOING SOOOOO GREAT!!!!!

    She sure as hell don't know the Constitution! (5.00 / 2) (#215)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:18:03 PM EST


    Palin goes into Katie Couric mode (5.00 / 1) (#217)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:18:13 PM EST
    in her VP answer. I have no idea what she just said.

    oy vey (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:19:41 PM EST


    Oh Lord (5.00 / 1) (#219)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:20:00 PM EST
    BTD was prophetic.  Palin quotes Reagan!

    ligatormom (5.00 / 1) (#221)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:20:16 PM EST
    you are doing a great job in the precis of the debate sections.

    She just cannot answer a question (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:20:17 PM EST
    can she.

    Perfect debate so far. . (5.00 / 1) (#223)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:21:01 PM EST
    by Biden.  And Palin has done pretty well considering she brings nothing to the table.

    Joe... (5.00 / 1) (#224)
    by prose on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:22:15 PM EST
    choking up about his kids was hella powerful.  My stomach is in my throat.

    In her GOP convention speech, (5.00 / 2) (#225)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:22:27 PM EST
    I thought Palin had a stellar delivery. But since then, her style has been turning more and more into a PARODY of herself. Keep it up Sarah.

    IDEA: for a YouTube video; clip compilation of every time she says "ya" instead of "you", and every time she drops a "g". It could be good.

    Maverick again!!! (5.00 / 1) (#226)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:22:58 PM EST


    Palin experience (5.00 / 1) (#227)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:24:23 PM EST
    Executive experience oil producing, being a mom, being connected to heartland of America, kid going to Iraq, how will we pay for healthcare (ask McCain, honey), shining city on hill, Reagan, beacon of hope, tolerance and diversity, that we can be put to good use for good in this country, and reforming, and that's a good team, a good ticket.

    Biden: you are kind that my weakness is lack of discipline. I am who I am. I am not going to change. I am proud of my record. [enumerates] I know what its like to be a single parent, kids going to war, the idea that because I am a man i don't know what its like to take care of kids, to have kids that I don't know is going to make it (breaks down a little, talking about his two kids critically injured) things have to change, they can't stay the same.

    I am so amazed with how much i like what biden is doing.

    Palin: McCain's maverick position that he is in, Leiberman, Romney, all these mavericks, he is the man to win, we have to win the war, no more greed on Wall Street, and the partisanhip that is entrenched, changing is coming and McCain is the leader of that reform.

    Biden: can we talk about being a Maverick. He's no maverick. He voted for Bush budgets. He's not been a maverick in health care. He's voted against it. He's not been a maverick in education. He's not been a maverick in the war, on anyting that affects people sitting around the kitchen table. Maverick he is not on the vital questions.

    Biden is on Fire!!! (5.00 / 1) (#228)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:24:42 PM EST
    I love Joe Biden!!!

    Iliff (5.00 / 1) (#229)
    by prose on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:25:47 PM EST
    is getting blamed for giving Biden the last word too often.  It'll be interesting to see how her moderating plays.  

    Biden is doing great! (5.00 / 1) (#231)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:26:09 PM EST


    What she's done to standard English (5.00 / 1) (#232)
    by snstara on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:26:44 PM EST
    is f-ing appalling.  

    I love Biden Calling Palin out (5.00 / 1) (#233)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:27:53 PM EST
    on the whole 'Maverick' thing. I think people are sick of hearing it.

    Joe debunked the maverick thing in so many ways! (5.00 / 1) (#235)
    by thereyougo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:29:42 PM EST
    I almost felt sorry she brought it up!

    John is not a maverick __ wow, that was almost sad.

    Joe is winning this election for Obama. Sarah is well, just Gov. Palin.

    Another Palin revelation coming? (5.00 / 1) (#236)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:29:58 PM EST
    She's now referred at least twice to her "very diverse family".  Once was in the context of gay rights.  Does anyone know what she's referring to?

    One fault I find (5.00 / 2) (#238)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:30:46 PM EST
    with both: they don't talk about the working class, but always about the "middle class.'

    IIfill: how to change the tone (5.00 / 1) (#239)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:31:07 PM EST
    Biden: i have been able to work across party lines. McCain would acknowledge this. Learned from Mike Mansfield. Don't question people's motives. I learned that, I question judgment, not motives. That is the fundamental change that Obama and I will bring.

    Palin: you walk the walk not just talk the talk. Appoint people of diverse problems. Even in my family we have diverse people -- what are some of them from Mars?  You create jobs by lowering taxes or support a ticket that will destroy jobs by raising taxes, clear choices on Novemeber 4. Good show of bipartisanship  there, Sarah. I like being able to answer the tough questions without the filter of the media.!!!!! I've been so blessed, and I am proud to be an American (cue the music....) We have to fight for America, quotes Reagan freedom can die in a generation. We will fight for it, there is only one man in this race who has ever fought for you, and that is John McCain.

    Joe Biden has just won the race (5.00 / 0) (#243)
    by jar137 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:36:09 PM EST
    for Obama.  This is the kind of performance that I bet brought my working class, Irish-Catholic, Philly mom into Obama's camp.  I think it will have the same effect on others in her demographic.

    "Facts matter, Gwen" (3.66 / 3) (#171)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:02:58 PM EST
    Yes!!!

    "Three weeks in Iraq, seven years in Afghanistan." Same amount of money.

    Paln: In fa structure....

    "Barack and I and Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar have been arguing for more troops in Afghanistan, McCain against that."


    Gwen Ifil is doing a good job tonight. (3.00 / 2) (#104)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:39:45 PM EST
    The race baiting by the GOP on this has been disgusting.

    Last week, each time I refreshed the (none / 0) (#5)
    by Teresa on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:53:33 PM EST
    comments, I had to restart the live blog. I don't remember having to do that during the primary debates.

    I did too (none / 0) (#9)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:02:54 PM EST
    In the primaries also.

    Parent
    I suspect a tie tonight or (none / 0) (#6)
    by cpa1 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:56:59 PM EST
    or a small Biden win but what I am concerned with now are the Supervisors of Elections that Karl Rove has enlisted to convert the real results of this election into the same kind of sham we had in 2000.

    I would like to see the names and addresses of all the supervisors of elections on the internet and I want to see the Democrats give them a stern warning that anyone who tries to tamper with the election results will end up prison for a long time.

    The names and addresses are needed to shed a big spotlight on all these people.  We have to let the GOP that what happened in 2000 will never ever happen again.

    gAME ON (none / 0) (#7)
    by Lil on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 07:59:32 PM EST
    i'M LISTENING TO mATTHEWS on KO. He's still nuts. Sorry 'bout the caps thing.

    Hey, they used the regular. . . (none / 0) (#8)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:01:09 PM EST
    debate theme in the NPR intro.  I think it would only be fair for Palin to get equal representation -- they should also play the theme from the Mickey Mouse Club.

    I'm watching on CNN this time (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:05:29 PM EST
    with the graphs.  Women really hate CEOs!

    Is her flag pin big enough? (none / 0) (#12)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:06:58 PM EST


    It's the same one she always (none / 0) (#71)
    by MoveThatBus on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:30:57 PM EST
    wears. I think it's the same suit, too.  She wore it during both of her Charlie Rose interviews.


    Parent
    Palin comes out and asks Biden (none / 0) (#13)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:09:55 PM EST
    If she can call him "Joe."  

    Joe answers a question about the bailout. It is long and ponderous.

    Palin sets her answer in a playground, and average Americans worrying about the economy. The federal government has not provided the sound oversight we need.

    McCain sounded the warning bell about Fannie and Freddie. No one listened to him. SHE TALKS ABOUT MCCAIN'S SUSPENSION TRICK -- putting the country first and bringing people together!!!!!!!

    And there is no response. She gives the answer and it just sits out there.

    She sounds more coherent.

    Biden asked a question about bipartisanship. He asks if he can respond to Palin. He talks about fundamentally strong, shows McCain was out of touch.

    Palin says that fundamentals meant Amaerican workforce.  Positive values enforced in the workforce. (??) Obama always votes along party lines. McCain will put bipartisanship. She respects Biden's experience but she says America is ready for something new, some new energy, send the maverick to the White House.

    oh please there is the first mention of the word (none / 0) (#14)
    by thereyougo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:10:03 PM EST
    maverick from Sarah palin!

    Well, she top-lined on that answer. (none / 0) (#16)
    by Teresa on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:11:14 PM EST


    Notice how Biden's (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:12:33 PM EST
    voice is so low key.

    Now Palin blames the subprime (none / 0) (#18)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:12:42 PM EST
    crisis on predatory lenders who convince people who can only afford $100k to buy $300k house. McCain will reform.

    Invokes Joe Six Pack and Hockey Moms, McCain will protect them. Americans need to live within their means.

    She's still droppin' her Gs.

    Biden: Obama warned about subprimes 2 years ago, McCain was saying to WSJ that he is always for de-regulation.  Tried and true Republican response of deregulation. Obama was talking about re-instituting regulations. Cites McCain's recent article advocating de-regulation of healthcare industry "just like he did for the banking industry."

    Joe Six Pack! (none / 0) (#19)
    by byteb on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:13:02 PM EST


    This is good so far. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Pegasus on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:13:04 PM EST
    Good politically, anyway.  It's bo-ring.  Biden should keep on just hitting McCain and talking up Obama.  And just letting Palin be Palin.

    Nice on the BS "votes to raise taxes" (none / 0) (#22)
    by Pegasus on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:15:21 PM EST
    standard.  Clearly had that one in his back pocket.

    Parent
    Palin responds about McCain's tax (none / 0) (#21)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:15:12 PM EST
    position. Accuses OBama of voting for higher taxes 94 times, against the people's interests. Government will have to learn to be more efficient. We need tax relief. Obama supported increasing taxes for $42k a year as late as last year.

    Biden: charge is not true. Obama did not vote to increase taxes. Procedural vote, McCain voted the same way. Note that Palin did not answer question about de-regulation.

    Palin: Oh I am still on the tax thing, and I may not answer the questions the way you and the moderator want me to answer, but I am going to talk straight to the American people. ???!!!!!

    Gwen cuts her off on her latest (none / 0) (#23)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:15:36 PM EST
    unresponsive riff on McCain the reformer.

    Its like Ebonics (none / 0) (#25)
    by samtaylor2 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:16:26 PM EST
    But I guess because she is cute it is okay.

    She reminds me of certain blog commenters. . . (none / 0) (#26)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:17:08 PM EST
    They make a statement, you explain it's not true.  They say "yes, but. . ." and make another statement.  You point out that's not true.  And on and on -- never recognizing the fact that you've just shown their previous comment to be bunkum.

    She's the same way.

    Say. . . do any of the commenter IP addresses originate in Alaska?

    Biden's getting tough now (none / 0) (#27)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:17:11 PM EST
    No more mr nice guy

    Lol! (none / 0) (#29)
    by CaptainAmerica08 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:18:26 PM EST
    Budget neutral? (none / 0) (#33)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:19:30 PM EST
    What?

    Wow, she can lie (none / 0) (#34)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:19:58 PM EST
    and still do the 'cute' thing. A-mazing.

    Why do I feel like she's proselytizing? (none / 0) (#35)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:20:12 PM EST
    Is it just because I know she's a right wing conservative Christian, or because she is trying to get us to believe in economic principles that fly in the face of our economic reality???

    Biden tells the truth about McCain's health care (none / 0) (#37)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:21:08 PM EST
    tax. Thank you Joe.

    Too many numbers (none / 0) (#41)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:21:54 PM EST
    in Bidens health care reply.

    Biden - scaling down his plans by (none / 0) (#43)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:22:23 PM EST
    not enacting McCain's plans?  Nice touch.

    What promises will you not be able to (none / 0) (#44)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:22:52 PM EST
    keep in light of financial crisis.

    Biden: double aid to foreign countries. Can't support McCain tax cuts for rich and corporations. We can not afford to  hold up on commitment to create new jobs bu investing in alternative energy, or affordable healthcare.

    He's talking fast and stumbling on his words, but he's very impassioned and making good points.

    Palin is all for the government staying (none / 0) (#47)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:23:32 PM EST
    out of the lives of Americans...

    that coupled with our right to privacy must mean that the War on Drugs is going down...

    right...

    And Abortion (none / 0) (#60)
    by themomcat on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:27:20 PM EST
    and birth control and telecommunications spying on us in the name of the "war on terror"

    Parent
    Yeah, there has never been much consistency (none / 0) (#61)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:27:35 PM EST
    in the GOP position there.

    Parent
    Own area of expertise... (none / 0) (#53)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:24:56 PM EST
    energy?

    Wow, she's tough AND a maverick! (none / 0) (#56)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:25:52 PM EST
    Taking on the oil companies, and won't take off any of the McCain promises because of the crisis. Man, tough! She scares me.

    Biden calls offshore post office boxes (none / 0) (#59)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:27:17 PM EST
    to avoid taxes "unpatriotic."

    Palin: McCain doesn't say one thing to one group of people and something else to another. (I guess this is a dig at the "bitter" comment.)

    Now she is talking about oil companies but it is incomprehensible. Big tax breaks not coming to oil companies anymore. OBama voted for energy plan that gave tax breaks to oil companies "that I had to undo." How the hell did she do that? (Ah, windfall profits tax.)

    Ifill: so there is no promise you can't keep?

    Palin: Well how long have I been at this, five weeks? So I have promised anything. Just reform, I will reform and support the people. (Then there is a silence --) "And John McCain hasn't made any promises he won't keep either."

    Biden: something about why Obama voted for oil plan. Palin made windfall profits tax, he gives her credit for it, but Obama wants to do that on national level, McCain opposes it.

    I am getting cramps in my fingers. I'm stopping for a few minutes.

    HUGE OVERSIGHT from McCain on Wall Street.... (none / 0) (#62)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:27:41 PM EST
    Huh?

    Cram down, cram down! (none / 0) (#65)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:29:09 PM EST
    Biden say he and Obama support cram down of principal.

    Adjust the principal you ow on your loan? (none / 0) (#66)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:29:33 PM EST
    Not sure I support that myself.

    Energy, energy, energy. .. (none / 0) (#68)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:30:13 PM EST
    did I say energy?  In this great land?  East coast politicians are foreign!

    I agree! (none / 0) (#75)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:31:54 PM EST
    "We've got to clean up this planet!"  lol

    Instead of talking about (none / 0) (#87)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:34:35 PM EST
    bankruptcy bill. I want to talk about energy, because I know energy!!!! Nonsensical East Coast states don't want to drill. We could be drilling and avoid foreign oil. Energy independence is the key to our security. Not just about windfall taxes.

    So this is how Palin is dealing with the moose in the headlights, I don't know what the frak the answer is moment: she just changes the subject.

    And Gwen isn't always cutting her off.  

    Now a question about climate change. She's talking very fast,  claims she is the first governmor to form climate change cabinet to deal with impacts. Have to deal with foreign countries who aren't as concerned about the climate as much as we do. We would never allow it.

    Biden; we know it is man-made. "If you don't know what the cause is, you can't deal with the crisis." McCain has voted 20 times against developing alternative energy sources. We believe we can create jobs and export energy. China is polluting with dirty coal. We can invest in clean coal and export it and create jobs. Drill drill drill, will take ten years to get the oil.

    has anyone ever done studies (none / 0) (#114)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:43:17 PM EST
    on what effect depleting the earth of it's oil supply has on the earth itself, as in the inner earth...

    do we know for sure that the earth doesn't need oil for some reason?

    Parent

    This format is too crazy...they keep jumping off (none / 0) (#97)
    by coast on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:37:16 PM EST
    point.  Biden throughs out too many numbers.  "joe six pack" doesn't like that.

    But neither party supports (none / 0) (#99)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:37:47 PM EST
    same sex marriage.

    But..... (none / 0) (#102)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:39:19 PM EST
    Ralph Nader and Cynthia McKinney do!

    Parent
    Joe cool sits on his record and knows McCains (none / 0) (#106)
    by thereyougo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:39:57 PM EST
    very well, and quickly SarahP, agrees on the McCains vote on the bankruptcy legislation. Real Main street isn't she?

    I'm still thinking about that lip liner, is it or isn't it a tat ? :-)  Sorry but I like her suit! she's got great taste in clothes!

    Joe is sexy ! wish they didn't show the back view where he didn't put the plugs

    she's good at not answering questions (none / 0) (#110)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:40:50 PM EST
    I guess she doesn't believe that committed gay relationships should have the same legal rights as heterosexual commitments, considering she totally just let the question go without answering it...

    she's doing that alot, gets away with it (none / 0) (#121)
    by thereyougo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:44:16 PM EST
    since she's so cute! and her makeup is just right

    Parent
    white flag fer sure... like totally (none / 0) (#116)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:43:41 PM EST
    gag me with a spoon.

    Uncommitteds (none / 0) (#118)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:43:59 PM EST
    are not in favor of her.  They drop more frequently and faster than they do when Biden speaks.  GOOD.  

    Palin (none / 0) (#119)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:44:01 PM EST
    goes back to the billions of barrels in Alaska.

    Biden, goes back to McCain voting 20 times against alternative fuels.

    Ifill: do you support same sex benefits, as they do in Alaska?

    Biden: yes, absolutely. Obama Adminstration will support equal Constitutional benefits. Not sure how they will make that constitutional if the Court doesn't agree.

    Palin: doesn't support extending Alaska policy to the rest of the country because it might tend to get close to undermining traditional marriage. I am very tolerant. I have a very diverse family and friends. I am very tolerant. Gays can visit in the hospital, but I will tell America that I am for traditional marriage.

    Biden: We don't support redefining marriage. But I take Governor at her word that she would not make any civil rights distinction between hetero and gay couples.

    Ifill: is that true?

    Palin: huminah huminah. I support traditional marriage, like he said.

    IFill: so you agree! Let's move on.

    Palin: the SURGE the surge is so successful. OBama voted against surge. We have a plan for withdrawal, but we don't need early withdrawal. We must have victory. The AlQaeda terrorists are still there. We need victory. The terrorists want to kill us.

    Biden: With all due respect I didn't hear a plan. Bush and Maliki are now negotiating on terms that are consistent with Obama plan. McCain voted against any funding that had a timeline. So he did the same thing Obama did. Barack says it is time for Iraqis to spend their own money. We will end this war, with McCain there is no end in sight.

    Palin: your plan is a white flag of surrender. Not what our troops need to hear. You opposed the surge and the surge works. We'll know when the war is over when the Iraqis can govern themselves and govern their people, Iraqis and the military will tell us when that is.

    ^*&^(&)(&^&$^%$@#@!@%$#&^%*&^%&%$#@!!!!!


    man, I know this doesn't add (none / 0) (#124)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:45:22 PM EST
    anything to the discussion...but those looks Palin gives, those condescending looks just make me want to smack her...

    and I don't hit women at all...but hey, we're being fair here...

    Joe wins hands down - game over (none / 0) (#126)
    by thereyougo on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:46:20 PM EST


    WHERE ARE YOU WATCHING (none / 0) (#127)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:46:26 PM EST
    THESE LINES GO UP AND DOWN?

    CNN (none / 0) (#135)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:49:46 PM EST
    Lines are on (none / 0) (#131)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:48:26 PM EST
    CNN I think (I'm watching public television)

    Why is Ifill stuttering so much? (none / 0) (#134)
    by boot on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:49:24 PM EST
    It's distracting.  

    Osama and Petraeus (none / 0) (#137)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:50:31 PM EST
    both said that EyeRack was central front in war on terror. And you can believe Petraeus and that leaders.....

    Iran hates Israel. Hey, she can pronounce nuclear. Obama would meet the Castro Brothers without preconditions. Dangerous and naive and wipe Israel off the face of the earth, should not be met with.  Rotting corpse.

    Ifill: Secretaries of State advise some level in engagement. Do you agree?

    Palin: I spoke with Henry Kissinger. McCain and I believe in diplomacy. Hard work. Friends and allies backing you up. Sanctions ready. They hate us. They hate our freedoms. They hate women's rights. AND SO DO I!!!!

    Actually, (none / 0) (#139)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:52:24 PM EST
    I heard her say "nucular" like Dubya.

    Parent
    Then she got it right later (5.00 / 1) (#158)
    by sallywally on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:57:10 PM EST
    but clearly nu-cu-lar is her chosen pronunciation.

    Parent
    It's infectious. Biden just said nucular (5.00 / 2) (#165)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:01:05 PM EST
    and then very quickly used the word again, enunciating it correctly.

    As long as neither one says libarry.  That drives me bonkers.

    Parent

    Biden (none / 0) (#146)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:54:24 PM EST
    Our friends are telling us to talk. Obama didn't say he meet with Ahmedinajad without preconditions. McCain wouldn't sit down with the government of Spain, a NATO ally, troops in Afghanistan. I find that unbelievable.

    Ifill: what has this administration done right or wrong.

    Palin: two state solution. Bush and Rice still working on peace in these waning days. We will not let Israel be destroyed. We should build our embassy in Jerusalem. Israel has success in forging treaties.

    Palin: no one has been a better friend to Israel than me. I would not be on this ticket if I did not believe Obama equally committed. Bush has been abysmal failure. We warned against elections in Gaza, you will legitimize Hamas. We warned against supporting invasion of Israel. what happened? HEzbollah now a legitimate part of Lebanese government.

    lol, she tried to get her to comment on (none / 0) (#149)
    by of1000Kings on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:55:20 PM EST
    Bush's policy to Israel...to come up with some specifics, and once again she skirts the question...

    just tuning in (none / 0) (#162)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 08:58:23 PM EST
    Biden gives a supurb response on linking MCCain policy to Bush.

    Ifill: is there a trigger that warrants (none / 0) (#166)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:01:16 PM EST
    use of nuclear weapons?

    Palin: we can't allow anyone else to have nukes. Our nukes are used for deterrence. Sanctions. Friends and allies. Kim Jong Il. Ahmedinejad. Can't let them have nukes. IFILL WAS ASKING A DIFFERENT QUESTION.

    Can I talk about Afghanistan? We need to use surge strategy in Afghanistan and that would be a change. Obama says we are killing citizens. That's not true and to say that hurts our cause.

    Biden: our commanding general in Afghanistan said TODAY the surge principle in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan. Facts matter. We need more troops, government building, infrastructure. We spend more $ in three weeks in Iraq than we have spent in SEVEN YEARS in AFghanistan.

    Nukes require comprehensive treaty. McCain opposed. Every other Republican supports it. Obama, first thing he did when he got to the Senate, reached across the ailse to Lugar and put together a piece of legislation.

    Palin: McClellan did not say definitely that surge wouldn't work. We have allies working with us in Afghanistan. Different geography. But surge can work. McClellan said nothing inconsistent with it.

    Biden: our commanding general DID say that.

    Doggonit (none / 0) (#174)
    by kmblue on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:03:48 PM EST
    why do I have to keep restarting the live blog?
    annoying

    Mine won't work at all (none / 0) (#180)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:06:37 PM EST
    I'll have to read their pearls of wisdom later.

    Parent
    Among so-called uncommited voters, (none / 0) (#175)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:04:34 PM EST
    looks like the women trend Democratic and the men Republican; at least in Ohio.

    I wonder if that is the case in the big picture.

    That's how voters in general trend (5.00 / 1) (#212)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:16:46 PM EST
    so it's not surprising that uncommitteds reflect that.

    Parent
    That's it. (none / 0) (#176)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:04:38 PM EST
    I'm sick of her. I've never been so pissed off in my life.

    Did you watch any of the Bush debates? (none / 0) (#185)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:08:03 PM EST
    Too young to vote so (none / 0) (#199)
    by shoulin4 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:11:35 PM EST
    not much interest. But thank God I didn't. I took 6 AP classes in high school. I think I would've had a stroke if I had watched those debates.

    Parent
    Say it ain't so, Joe? (none / 0) (#201)
    by LarryInNYC on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:12:13 PM EST
    Here comes failin' Palin.

    DEid someone tell her she's not Reagan? (none / 0) (#202)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:12:49 PM EST
    Doggone it.

    Do I get extra credit for sitting thru this? (none / 0) (#204)
    by dutchfox on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:12:54 PM EST


    JOE!!! (none / 0) (#206)
    by litigatormom on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:13:06 PM EST
    i challenge you to go to neighborhood and ask people if the policies of bush have made them better off. They will say no. Now ask them if they think McCain policies are any different that Bush.  

    Palin: say it ain't so Joe, there you go looking backwards. OMG. OMG. THAT's her answer to how McSame is different?

    Now she's talking about all the schoolteachers in her family.

    She's droppin even more of her Gs.

    Knockout blow! (none / 0) (#210)
    by lobary on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:15:08 PM EST
    That was a tremendous smackdown.

    Nice job, Biden.

    Parent

    Off topic, sorry, but about Troopergate... (none / 0) (#207)
    by rdandrea on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:14:23 PM EST
    I know I'm off topic, but I hope to see a thread on this soon.

    According to the Anchorage Daily News, the judge refused to halt the Legislature's troopergate investigation, and refused to throw out the Legislature's subpeonas.

    Not sure it was good for Biden to imply (none / 0) (#216)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:18:09 PM EST
    Obama needs him in the room all the time.

    A little disturbing (none / 0) (#220)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:20:14 PM EST
    that the CNN men line was flat on her until she started talking about how great America is.  They love that stuff.

    I don't think I've ever seen Biden (none / 0) (#234)
    by TomStewart on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:29:36 PM EST
    so human. Palin is coming on like a GOPbot, hitting the same points over and over and pushing the whole 'gee-whiz' thing to the limit.

    gee, might that be (none / 0) (#237)
    by cpinva on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:30:43 PM EST
    her style has been turning more and more into a PARODY of herself.

    because she IS a parody?

    yeah, she's some role model for girls. the "you too can be an idiot, and if you manage to walk, chew gum, and not trip over your own two feet at the same time" female, you can be a token candidate.

    yeah, i want my daughter looking up to this nimrod. and trust me, she IS a nimrod.

    coming on like? (none / 0) (#240)
    by dws3665 on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:32:49 PM EST
    She is a GOP-bot.


    Did Biden really say that the courts (none / 0) (#241)
    by BrassTacks on Thu Oct 02, 2008 at 09:33:31 PM EST
    Should be involved in deciding the PRINCIPLE on mortgage payments?  Isn't that illegal?  I hope that I misunderstood him.

    Biden on the VP stuff? (none / 0) (#244)
    by dualdiagnosis on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 02:47:40 AM EST
    The Vice President does have a legislative role, and the VP doesn't just preside over the Senate in case of a tie. The VP only votes in case of a tie, but voting isn't the same as presiding.

    Article I of the Constitution deals with the legislative branch, not the executive.

    etc,etc..

    Palin/Biden debate (none / 0) (#245)
    by caesar on Fri Oct 03, 2008 at 12:20:15 PM EST
    It's not exactly news that Palin rehearsed for the whole debate in Sedona, Arizona. Biden was clearly more relaxed and actually knew everything he was saying. That's why Biden was getting upset up there with her, because she was spewing nonsense, and he kept saying that "it was absolutely FALSE" whatever she was saying. Palin simply spewed all of the rehearsed comments out in the form of memorized brain-washing material. She spoke like a robot up there, c'mon.
    This is easy.
    I voted for Barack Obama yesterday via absentee ballot in a swing state.