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AQAP Pledges Support for al-Awlaki, Threatens U.S.

Abu Baseer al-Wahishi, the leader of al Qaida Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), released a tape today through the group's media arm, al-Malahem, expressing support for cleric Anwar al-Awlaki, who is in hiding after President Obama placed him on a "capture or kill" list. The U.S. suspects al-Awlaki of providing spiritual guidance to suspected Fort Hood shooter, Nidal Malik Hasan, and the Christmas Day airplane bomber, Umar Farouk

He also threatened attacks against the United States if al-Awlaki was harmed. And speaking about Abmudullatab, al-Wahayshi says on the tape:

"That was a failure but tell me, what will success be like...It will inevitably be a disaster for you (Americans), for we are enamored with the attacks of September 11."

The tape was an open letter to the American public. [More...]

Al-Wuhayshi sends an open letter to the American public stating that President Obama doesn't control their security. Those who do are the old women in Palestine, the children of Baghdad, the women of Kabul and the Sheikhs of Muqadishou. He added, stop you agressions in order for us to stop attacking you. In addition, the challenged president Obama to release the truth to the american public and tell them what the investigations revelaed concerning new plots against the United States.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Our aggressions had nothing to do with (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 03:45:24 PM EST
    their initial attack and the terrorism organization they were building.  They are all about intolerance and the killing of those who are not like them or willing to bend to their God given superiority and authority.  If there is any one thing they fear from Western civilization....it is the loss of control of their women.  Strange, my father predicted this culture clash when I was about ten and he said that what would lay at the very heart of it was loss of control of their women after having been exposed to Western culture. But they can shroud what they do to others any number of ways, I still ain't buying and I did not make them a global danger, they made themselves that.

    Sounds Like (none / 0) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 03:53:50 PM EST
    The global warming deniers argument, and their resistance to any steps toward energy conservation.

    Seems to me, despite the validity of their reasons for attacking us,
    it would good for the US to seriously address the apartheid situation in Palestine, for a start.

    Parent

    This never makes any sense to me (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:21:35 PM EST
    how certain peaceniks say that I must stay out of Afghanistan's business or Iran's business but I must bury myself in Israel/Palestinian business.  Not that you are such a person.  I honestly don't know if you have ever made that argument or care to.  But I was attacked by a terrorist group that had come to power in the failed state of Afghanistan.  That group and anyone empowering and supporting them are actually my business.

    Parent
    You might as well (none / 0) (#7)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:35:01 PM EST
    bury yourself, when we've funding that mess to the tune of billions for decades..Unless you dont care what they do with all that govt revenue..

    Parent
    I always care what they do with (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:45:46 PM EST
    government revenue, I care very much at this point as well.  But this argument does not fix any danger of terrorism.  We have to spend our money wisely.  Perhaps that isn't happening right now.  It is a fair question though to ask ourselves if we can "afford" to allow Al Qaida to rebuild and do what it does unhindered?  If we leave now, everyone who aided us is dead as well.  Are you okay with that?  I'm not.

    Parent
    good point (none / 0) (#14)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:59:09 PM EST
    Squeaky is exactly that kind of person. (none / 0) (#34)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:52:15 PM EST
    So is Jondee and many others on the Left. For some reason they can't seem to grasp the subtle fact that hanging gays, stoning women and honor killings is all part and parcel of the radical Muslims who use Palestine as an excuse to kill Jews and anyone else who disagrees with them.

    Parent
    And you're just the kind (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 12:57:05 AM EST
    independent-thought-averse neocon stooge who NEVER heard of a Human Rights violation outside of the countries on the ME hit list.

    Parent
    Show me the list (none / 0) (#95)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 17, 2010 at 08:43:28 AM EST
    and I will answer.

    Otherwise all you have done is snark.

    Parent

    Go to that pinko (none / 0) (#97)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 03:24:32 PM EST
    Amnesty International site, genius.

    Btw, When they say "untouchables", they're not refering to Eliot Ness.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#48)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:20:50 PM EST
    But why?  Are they just easily brainwashed.  I don't understand the disconnect.  Why would anyone who considers themselves liberal be on the side of a culture that abuses women and despises the enlightenment?  It's frightening how easily people can be manipulated.

    Parent
    Liberal Side? (none / 0) (#73)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 09:02:11 PM EST
    Why would anyone be on the side of a country that does not allow a peaceful liberal to enter their country solely because he has criticized the regime?

    Yes, two can play your game.

    Parent

    I agree (none / 0) (#49)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:21:07 PM EST
    But why?  Are they just easily brainwashed.  I don't understand the disconnect.  Why would anyone who considers themselves liberal be on the side of a culture that abuses women and despises the enlightenment?  It's frightening how easily people can be manipulated.

    Parent
    See my comment below to MT (none / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:46:19 PM EST
    Enlightenment (none / 0) (#100)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 03:39:29 PM EST
    like retaking the Temple Mount and sacrificing a red heifer in order bring about the onset of the Messianic Age.

    Parent
    More Like A Red Herring (none / 0) (#101)
    by squeaky on Mon May 17, 2010 at 03:47:09 PM EST
    To facilitate a land grab..

    Parent
    I'm working to not demonize (none / 0) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:28:01 PM EST
    It does nobody any good to do so really, it only ends up stiffling the debate.  I can't tell you that the big shift right in Israel didn't lead to a trigger happy aggressive show of force, but how and why did Israel take that course and why is it so difficult to turn around now?  There are consequences for all actions all the way around.  Al Qaeda though throwing the Palestinian conflict out there is nothing if not completely predictable.  And if that conflict were reconciled tomorrow they'd just have a different one to justify what they do and what they want.  Their real problem is that they hate me.  They really hate me, some uncovered freely speaking white feminist whore.  I make Allah cry.

    Parent
    Debate is fine (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:45:45 PM EST
    But the facts are that Clinton managed to get agreements that met 90% of the Palestinian's demands. Yet their leader rejected it.

    This is not and has not been a war about land, but a war over religion. The radical Muslims want to kill Jews and Christians and anyone else who disagrees with them.

    The swing towards Palestine started in the 70's when the radical Leftists in this country took over the universities and started revising history.

    Now, it is a given that if you hate America's policies the Muslim world becomes an "enemy of my enemy is my friend."

    Parent

    The radical leftists took (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:03:16 AM EST
    over the universities..lol

    And then they started with all that un-American global warming propaganda..

    How did they take them all over, Jim? A series of bloody coups?

    Parent

    If only (none / 0) (#94)
    by Spamlet on Mon May 17, 2010 at 02:24:49 AM EST
    they had been truly radical . . .

    Parent
    Your Hands Are Not Clean (none / 0) (#64)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 07:42:43 PM EST
    Not to mention that you are proposing killing those because they kill others, hypocrisy much?

    Parent
    I have never said my hands were (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:49:29 PM EST
    clean. But in the world away from cocktail parties and coffee houses real innocent people are killed.

    Perhaps you are too young to remember Black September or have any effective memory of the airport killings in Rome or the athletes in Munich and on and on...

    Parent

    A Counting Game? (none / 0) (#71)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:58:33 PM EST
    You lose. Big time.

    Parent
    There's more than one global danger (none / 0) (#6)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:32:04 PM EST
    phone me up when they start toppling democratically elected governments and installing dictatorships, accumulate 10,000 warheads and colonize half the planet with 700 military bases.

    Not exactly a recipe for lasting peace in itself.  

    Parent

    Well, I'm with the Dalia Lama as usual (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:39:34 PM EST
    The Dalai Lama, a lifelong champion of non-violence candidly stated that terrorism cannot be tackled by applying the principle of ahimsa because the minds of terrorists are closed.

    "It is difficult to deal with terrorism through non-violence," the Tibetan spiritual leader said delivering the Madhavrao Scindia Memorial Lecture here.

    He termed terrorism as the worst kind of violence which is not carried by a few mad people but by those who are very brilliant and educated.

    The Dalia Lama has even pronounced the Korean War a war of necessity and speaks of the actualization of self that South Koreans can now participate in because of that war and those who died in it.


    Parent

    Oops sorry, can't spell Dalai today (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:42:05 PM EST
    I planted dahlia's this afternoon, certain aspects of the flower stuck with me :)

    Parent
    Whose minds are more (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:45:21 PM EST
    closed: terrorists or imperialists aiming at foreign markets?

    Was thousands of tons of napalm an act of terrorism, or just someone followin' orders?

    Parent

    Who is an imperialist aiming (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:46:24 PM EST
    at foreign markets?

    Parent
    Heh, it can't be McChrystal (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:55:08 PM EST
    He threw Burger King and Pizza Hut out of Afghanistan :)

    Parent
    funny-- (none / 0) (#52)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:31:12 PM EST
    I didn't know that.

    Parent
    Do you really (none / 0) (#15)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:02:56 PM EST
    believe that back when we were empowering radical Islamists as a bulwark against "Soviet expansion" it was purely for ideological reasons?

    Im also curious what Dalai Lama would say about the unnecessary suffering incurred by neglecting neighborhoods and schools in order to line defense contractors pockets?

    Parent

    Do you have any evidence for anything (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:11:15 PM EST
    you are "concerned" about, this seems to be mostly anti-imperialism rhetoric and nothing that is usable in dealing with the actual dangers and problems.  Do you have a link or something to some evidence of someone's imperial designs?  Part of being a Buddhist is understanding though that there will always be suffering.  There is no Jesus endorphin cure for suffering if you are Buddhist.  If you are Buddhist you will seek the true heart of the matter in order to ease suffering, and sometimes the true heart of the matter is nothing other than the ego of others who will hurt and kill others until someone or something says "NO!" to it and brings consequences.

    Parent
    U.S foreign policy has (none / 0) (#25)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:28:17 PM EST
    been rooted in the dharma all along and Im just not seeing it?

    Parent
    Links to evidence your (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:03:43 PM EST
    grand conspiracy please, some sort of evidence...anything.  This to me reads as nothing greater than leftwing conspiracy theory, not to be confused with rightwing Obama is not a U.S. citizen conspiracy theory.

    Parent
    Neither Jondee or Squeaky (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:54:23 PM EST
    are very big on links.

    Parent
    How about a link (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 07:20:19 PM EST
    to that font of social liberalism, Tall Cotton?

    Parent
    Typical PPJ Disinformation (none / 0) (#66)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:08:34 PM EST
    Hilarious, considering that over the years I have provided you with over a thousand links, and you never opened one of them.

    Now all of a sudden, because I post a quote without a link, and ask you to copy and paste it in a search engine, evidentially as task well beyond your technical skill, you claim that I am not very big on links.

    ppj in a nutshell


    Parent

    Thousands??? (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:51:16 PM EST
    ROFLMAO

    Parent
    And the Khmer Rouge (none / 0) (#51)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:28:06 PM EST
    were what?  Anti imperialists?  And Iran's treatment of choice for  non violent protesters was what? execution? Anyone who spouts this nonsense has a problem.  How about what the Russians are doing in Chechnya?  These slogans you spout are just that...slogans created by  master propagandists

    So where is your political nirvana?

    Parent

    Not in a settlement (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 07:23:17 PM EST
    with a bunch of the-end-is-near gangsters recently arrived from Russia.

    Parent
    Why do you hate Brighton Beach? (none / 0) (#61)
    by Spamlet on Sun May 16, 2010 at 07:29:47 PM EST
    Not interested in billionaire (none / 0) (#28)
    by observed on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:38:22 PM EST
    king/mystic's opinions on anything.
    Suppose the Pope said it's ok to kill Muslims because their minds are closed to Christ.
    In fact, pope's HAVE said similar things in the past.
    One of the reasons we have terrorism is that people value the opinions of religious leaders ahead of what their own reason says.
    Mini-rant over.

    Parent
    The crusades have been (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:56:09 PM EST
    over for a 1000 years or so.

    And we should quit using ancient history as an excuse for what radicals are doing now.

    Parent

    non sequitur (none / 0) (#38)
    by observed on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:57:13 PM EST
    I made no such suggestion.

    Parent
    Your later comments in the thread (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:01:27 PM EST
    certainly suggest that.

    Parent
    So the Lama is an effing loser (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:15:11 PM EST
    for his take on dealing with terrorism?  That's okay, I live in a free country where everyone has a right to their own opinion.  I didn't read his take on any of this though before forming my own opinions about how to handle Al Qaeda.  I was instead surprised to find out later that his opinion did not deviate from mine.  When I came to my conclusion about Islamic Extremism Terrorism I figured my faith would have to take a hit.  I was surprised when I wasn't pronounced a GIANT sinner when it comes to my own personal intent and terrorism.  And I am reminded as well about BTD's comment about the Lama's opinion, it went something like the Lama's armies are all in his sleevies :)

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#53)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:33:16 PM EST
    Hamas was democratically elected (none / 0) (#16)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:04:03 PM EST
    So was Chavez....And they are building up arms at an alarming rate...And most of the democratic freedoms are gone in Venezuela...It's a dictatorship...and it is aggressive toward Columbia.
    And both are supported by Iran.  

    Parent
    I am not aware of anything such as (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:16:22 PM EST
    this that Chavez is doing.  I should research it.  It is hard for me to knock Chavez.  I visited Venezuela pre Chavez and it was heartbreaking.  I was supposed to have been on vacation but it was no vacation seeing the disparity between the rich and the poor.  I'm not blind though to the fact that total power eventually corrupts totally.  How does Iran support Chavez?  This is something I'm not familiar with at all.

    Parent
    Venezuela (none / 0) (#24)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:25:14 PM EST
    This is not a comment on the disparity between rich and poor, or on whether the previous government addressed those issues sufficiently.  I think that disparity exists in many countries, however.  But Chavez is an aggressive dictator and represents a threat to all democratically elected governments in South America.  He is aligned with Iran and funding a war with Columbia...and he is assuming total control of the country while silencing the opposition. He is also fueling anti semitism. The country is on a downward spiral.  But they have a lot of oil.  

    Parent
    Jim Crow Israel (none / 0) (#26)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:30:17 PM EST
    ISNT fueling anti-semitism?

    Parent
    You and I won't ever be on the same (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:57:18 PM EST
    page then if what the people need doesn't factor into your rhetoric.

    Parent
    And the leader (none / 0) (#22)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:21:20 PM EST
    of Columbia is one of worst thugs on the planet, putting Columbia right at the top of the list for murdering and "disappearing" labor organizers..

    Where are you getting your info on Venezuela?

    Parent

    Clearly from a different source than you. (none / 0) (#27)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:32:43 PM EST
    The drug lords were destroying Columbia before Uribe.  His presidency has been very good for Columbia and the U.S.....Is it perfect?  Which country is?  But the narco traffic is diminished there significantly and Columbia is a U.S. ally.  Unless you prefer that a non U.S. ally control Columbia....But there is no question that Chavez is interfering in electoral politics there and funding FARC.

    Parent
    So (none / 0) (#30)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:41:12 PM EST
    as long as the thug is our thug that's the best we can hope for? That continued attitude is supposed to improve our standing in the world?

    I remember this routine: Diem was "our friend", Pinochet was our friend, Apartheid South Africa was our friend, Noriega was our friend (for a while), the Shah was our friend..

    Parent

    Why do I suspect (none / 0) (#32)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:42:42 PM EST
    this is mostly about Israel?

    Parent
    How curious (none / 0) (#54)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:36:52 PM EST
    that you aren't concerned about Syrian thugs, Iranian thugs, Russian thugs, North Korean thugs..who do far worse to people...

    Parent
    Knew it (none / 0) (#56)
    by jondee on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:53:02 PM EST
    I agree with both of you (none / 0) (#3)
    by otherlisa on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:08:36 PM EST
    That the US should seriously address the apartheid situation in Palestine, and that there is a deep fear of women at the root of Muslim extremist fundamentalism -- and I'd say the same for the Christian and Jewish varieties of fundamentalism as well.

    I wish I knew what I could do about (none / 0) (#5)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 04:23:36 PM EST
    the Israel/Palestinian situation.  Neither party can lay full claim to being the victim or the victimizer, but Israel currently has more success as a victimizer.

    Parent
    Absurd (none / 0) (#18)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:12:44 PM EST
    Clearly you are not well informed about these issues.  Israel is the victim of a campaign of de-legitimization...and of unremitting violence.  There is an arms buildup on all of its borders but for Jordan...Israel has always wanted peace...but to this day, the Palestinians will not recognize Israel as a Jewish state...Revisionist history is popular these days...everywhere...

    Parent
    Pffft....Israel has wanted peace at times (none / 0) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:18:01 PM EST
    And at other times not so much :)  Same goes for Palestine.

    Parent
    Not the same goals (none / 0) (#29)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:40:56 PM EST
    The Palestinians have rejected peace accords from the very beginning.  Do a little research.  They continue to incite against Israel.  There textbooks are filled with anti semitism and hate.  There is no comparison nor is there a moral equivalence.  The Palestinians aren't even united.  Have you forgotten about Gaza and Hamas?  Do you recall that Israel left Gaza...abundant with green houses...and got an armed fanatical group as a thank you?  They filled many of their own of the Fatah party when they took over Gaza with military might supplied by Iran.  Even more recently, they have been offered peace by Olmert, and Barak...It is frustrating to read revisionist history about Israel.  I have no sympathy for the Palestinians.  In fact, as far as I'm concerned, any group that imposes restrictions on women and treats them as second class chattel should be punished.  And women who support any culture that does not promote equal rights for women are short sighted.  The problem in the world are cultures that are repressing women.  Statistics demonstrate that the most successful countries and cultures treat women equally.  The backward countries try to control and oppress women.  That is the real problem that needs to be addressed.

    Parent
    I remember similar arguments in (none / 0) (#33)
    by observed on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:43:48 PM EST
    the 70's and 80's used to defend the South African government ---"Things are worse, elsewhere. Look at the tyranny over THERE."

    The problem is that since Israel IS an advanced democracy, it's behavior  is inexcusable.


    Parent

    My husband holds them to (none / 0) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:54:44 PM EST
    a higher standard too at times for the same reason.  We have some pretty good Israel/Palestinian brawls in this house at times. Me, any human being can only tolerate so much before the gloves come off.  My husband wants the gloves to go back on more easily, I don't know how a democracy quickly does that once incited.  It seems to me it would take a dictator to be able to quickly switch back and forth like that.  From a psychological perspective, coddling Palestinians and cutting them slack when it comes to the violence they inflict gets them and Israel and world what?  They have no reason to change their behavior if we treat them like a "can't be accountable baby" state.

    Parent
    My husband just told me that (none / 0) (#57)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:53:34 PM EST
    six months ago Egypt began destroying the tunnels between Egypt and Palestine whenever they find them.  They do not want to be a part of empowering Palestinian terrorism.  It would appear that anyone who wants quality of life is cutting themselves off from the Palestinians mostly self created conflict.

    Parent
    You don't know your history (none / 0) (#55)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:42:53 PM EST
    or the facts. Not everything is amenable to reason. Force, unfortunately is required.  And as for democracies using force...I'd say the number of people we and our allies killed in Iraq should be compared to the number killed by Israel.  There is no comparison...we have killed far more innocent civilians. But there is a real threat from radical Islam...and we are seeing it more often.  Some players don't respond to peace...because that is not what they want.

    Parent
    And I would say that you (none / 0) (#58)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:55:02 PM EST
    use specific cherry picked history to argue for your own agenda :)

    Parent
    So what happens in Africa is (none / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:12:20 PM EST
    okay because they are not "advanced?"

    Parent
    Apartheid applies to the Islamic world (none / 0) (#21)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:18:16 PM EST
    that makes women second class citizens and chattel.
    When you hurl ridiculous words like "apartheid" to characterize a country that has more freedoms than this country, you do yourself a disservice and expose the power of brainwashing.  There is no country named Palestine.  It was previously Jordan. And Jordan, along with most if not all of the Arab states refused to allow Palestinians to become citizens.  And when Jordan occupied Jerusalem, it expelled the Jews and restricted access. Learn your history before you comment and reveal your ignorance.

    Parent
    I agree with your (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:23:59 PM EST
    call out of the onesided view of Palestinian apartheid and would like to also point out that President Carter has even backtracked some now on his past take on Palestinian apartheid.

    Parent
    Hello Golda Meir! (none / 0) (#31)
    by observed on Sun May 16, 2010 at 05:42:00 PM EST
    Tell me again about the freedoms that the Palestinians enjoy under the Israeli boot.
    Oh, that's right---"I have never met a Palestinian".


    Parent
    Really? (none / 0) (#47)
    by klassicheart on Sun May 16, 2010 at 06:15:12 PM EST
    How many Arab Israelis would choose to give up their citizenship?  Shouldn't your emphasis be on the boot of Hamas? Israel left Gaza you know.  What have the Palestinians turned it into?  Been to Gaza lately? And perhaps you were also unaware that the Palestinians are divided and in conflict with each other.  How many Palestinians were murdered by Hamas? Thousands.  Still not nearly as bad as what's happening in many African countries. Hundred of thousands or a million people have been slaughtered in Darfur.  Are you one of those who discounts the starvation and murder in Africa because those people are less deserving of your concern?  The plight of people in Africa is far worse than anything in Gaza.  You don't know what you are talking about...and instead are spouting pure propaganda.  

    Parent
    Can you please stay on topic (none / 0) (#63)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 16, 2010 at 07:37:48 PM EST
    the topic is al-Awlaki and AQAP. It is not Israel.

    Parent
    But (none / 0) (#65)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:00:25 PM EST
    It seems to me that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is central to this topic, as is the Iraq war, and our actions in Somalia.

     

    Parent

    Your opinion (none / 0) (#72)
    by Spamlet on Sun May 16, 2010 at 08:59:14 PM EST
    And this is from a longer, quite interesting piece by Ellen Willis:

    I believe that anti-Jewish genocide cannot be laid to rest as a discrete historical episode, but remains a possibility implicit in the deep structure of Christian and Islamic cultures, East and West. This last point is particularly difficult to argue on the left . . . . anti-Zionism is a conspicuous feature of that brand of left politics that reduces all global conflict to Western imperialism versus Third World anti-imperialism, ignoring a considerably more complicated reality.


    Parent
    No Not My Opinion (none / 0) (#74)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 09:05:20 PM EST
    The opinion of Al-Wuhayshi:

    Al-Wuhayshi sends an open letter to the American public stating that President Obama doesn't control their security. Those who do are the old women in Palestine, the children of Baghdad, the women of Kabul and the Sheikhs of Muqadishou.

    Who, is among other things the subject of this thread.

    Parent

    This is the opinion I was directly referring to (none / 0) (#75)
    by Spamlet on Sun May 16, 2010 at 09:22:46 PM EST
    It seems to me that the Israeli Palestinian conflict is central to this topic

    Evidently Al-Wuhayshi agrees with you.

    But agreement on this point is far from unamimous even among leftists, and that's the gist of the short essay I linked to.

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 09:27:06 PM EST
    The topic is among other things the quote Jeralyn provided. Not sure how there can be any opinion about whether or not the quote is a subject of this thread. It is a fact, not an opinion of mine.

    Parent
    In response to comment #1 from MT (none / 0) (#77)
    by Spamlet on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:04:45 PM EST
    you said this (comment #2):

    Seems to me, despite the validity of their reasons for attacking us,
    it would good for the US to seriously address the apartheid situation in Palestine, for a start.

    MT said nothing about Palestine, and your comment didn't mention "the children of Baghdad, the women of Kabul and the Sheikhs of Muqadishou," only "the old women of Palestine."

    Regardless of what your actual opinion may be, your comment does suggest that you see a direct relationship between the attitudes and activities of AQAP and the policies of the Israeli government.

    Al-Wuhayshi also suggests such a relationship, regardless of what his actual opinion may be.

    Parent

    Not Sure What You Are Up To Here (none / 0) (#80)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:19:55 PM EST
    My comment was in response to Jeralyn's comment saying that Israel is not the topic.

    I answered that the Palestinian Israeli conflict was on topic because of the quote by Al-Wuhayshi claiming that that is one of the reasons AQAP is waging war against the west.

    You stated that was my opinion that, presumably, Israel was on topic. I stated that it was factual that Isreal is topical because of the AQAP quote.

    Then you quote me in response to MT, a complete non sequitur, as far as I can tell.

    Not to mention that you have both quoted me and then astoundingly misrepresented my quote.

    I said that despite the validity of AQAP reason, it would be good for us to address the situation in Palestine, or the large swath of land including Israel and the greater area around it.

    I have no idea as to whether it is true that AQAP will stop attacking the west once we stop blindly siding with Israel, withdraw from Iraq or stop killing people in Somalia.

    What I do think, is that it is a good idea to stop supporting  right wing Israeli policies despite whether or not it will have any effect on AQAP war on the west.

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    "Up to"? (none / 0) (#82)
    by Spamlet on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:26:13 PM EST
    Sheesh.

    Parent
    Yeah "Up To" (none / 0) (#83)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:35:59 PM EST
    You jumped in, not sure exactly why, and then continued to argue, either because you were confused, or trying to support Jeralyn's point that Israel is not on topic, or who knows.

    Then to continue on, after I attempted to clear up any confusion you may have had as to my point about Israel being on topic, and distort what I said to MT, in order to ????  hear the sound of your own typing?

    Not sure what you are up to here, it is not obvious to me.  

    Parent

    Nice link (none / 0) (#79)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:13:59 PM EST
    One of the 1000s ????

    Parent
    F'off (none / 0) (#81)
    by squeaky on Sun May 16, 2010 at 10:22:52 PM EST
    Unless you are in a serious stage of Alzheimer's disease. Then you have my sympathy.

    Not sure why you would even want look more stupid than usual (a feat in itself) and continue to suggest that I rarely provide links.

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    Nasty aint ya? (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon May 17, 2010 at 08:52:40 AM EST
    Oh well, since you can't debate after being caught again in conflict with what you wrote you try the personal insult.

    Won't work Squeaky. I love it when you show us your true self.

    Especially when you ignore what happens to gays and women in Palestine and all Islamic theocracies while claiming to be for women's rights.

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    "anti-zionist" (none / 0) (#84)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 12:43:33 AM EST
    is in itself a gloss on a complicated reality, if the people applying that term to others are interpreting ANY strong criticism of Israeli policy as an expression of the belief that Israel shouldnt exist.

    But, Willis seems so eager to cut right to the  chase of throwing out the usual debate sabotaging anti-semitism charge, that she willfully ignores the above possibility in favor of her own "complicated" formulation, which uses more words than usual to impugn the motives of Israel's critics in the standard way.      

     

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    Bedwetter, IMO (none / 0) (#85)
    by squeaky on Mon May 17, 2010 at 12:54:21 AM EST
    You'd wet the bed (none / 0) (#90)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:19:43 AM EST
    too, if Mexican Muslims chased you in your dreams every night..

    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#91)
    by squeaky on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:21:15 AM EST
    How did you know that I have a "thing" for Mexican Muslims...

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    Actually (none / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:28:56 AM EST
    I was referring to Willis...  It is Oedipal bedwetting...

    In the patriarchal unconscious Jews represent the vindictive castrating fa ther and the wicked, subversive tempter, the moral ideal we cannot attain and the revolution we dare not join. As such, Jews are an object of our unconscious rage at repressive authority as well as at those who tease us with visions of (evil) freedom; a subterranean rage that is readily tapped by demagogues in times of crisis.....

     But it is a question. Is it possible that Jews could once again be massacred? Given the rise of Islamic fundamentalism, the ubiquity of anti-Semitism in the Arab world, the anti-Jewish subtext in much anti-Zionist polemic along with the denial that any such sentiment exists--and given that in an increasingly murderous world the unthinkable takes place on a daily basis--I have to argue that the possibility cannot be dismissed.



    Parent
    So you dismiss (none / 0) (#93)
    by Spamlet on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:42:47 AM EST
    the possibility that Willis points to, even though the genocide of Europe's Jews took place in living memory.

    I can't give you an Oedipal take on your attitude, but there's a term from pop psychology that applies: denial.

    But some people simply cannot tolerate dissent or ambiguity, so great is their fear of being controlled by an Other who disagrees with them. (In the lexicon of this particular paranoiac manifestation, the uncooperative Other is labeled a "bedwetter," since insults apparently keep the panic at bay--talk about bedwetting.) Intolerance of ambiguity is in particular a feature of the authoritarian personality.

    Parent

    I See (none / 0) (#98)
    by squeaky on Mon May 17, 2010 at 03:28:33 PM EST
    Sounds like you have a fixation, doc.

    Parent
    that comment was deleted, and I have (none / 0) (#62)
    by Jeralyn on Sun May 16, 2010 at 07:35:29 PM EST
    to delete your's (MT) for reprinting it. It's libelous and a personal attack. Klassic Heart will be banned if he repeats it.

    Willis is talking about (none / 0) (#88)
    by Spamlet on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:16:20 AM EST
    people who fall in with what she calls "the logic of anti-Zionism in the present political context," a logic that

    entails an unprecedented demand for an existing state--one, moreover, with popular legitimacy and a democratically elected government--not simply to change its policies but to disappear.

    And I take the operative word in the first part of your formulation to be "if":

    "anti-zionist" is in itself a gloss on a complicated reality, if the people applying that term to others are interpreting ANY strong criticism of Israeli policy as an expression of the belief that Israel shouldnt exist

    Certainly there are people who overreact to criicism of Israel in the way you describe, but I see no evidence in Willis's essay that she is one of them. Nor do I see any effort to "impugn the motives of Israel's critics in the standard way" in "more words than usual"--or in any words at all, for that matter. YMMV.

    Sorry, this is a reply to jondee #84 (none / 0) (#89)
    by Spamlet on Mon May 17, 2010 at 01:17:56 AM EST
    She makes some intersting points (none / 0) (#99)
    by jondee on Mon May 17, 2010 at 03:33:38 PM EST
    but, some of it reminds me of that Freudian self-sealing premise that tried to ostracize Jung, Reich, Rank & Co, by claiming that their heresies were driven by a "kill the Father" neurosis..

    I do remember Jung, when trying to make sense of the outbreak of barbarism connected with the two World Wars, saying that the european unconscious was essentially "pagan" with a thin veneer of Judeo-Christianity laid over it..which would make the carriers of the Abrahamic tradition the targets of continual resentment and scapegoating..

    Interesting stuff.

    Parent