Republican Debate: Anyone Watching?

By Jeralyn, Section Elections
Posted on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 06:40:15 PM EST
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I have yet to see a Republican debate, nor do I care to. For those who are following, here's a place to discuss it. Tonight's final debate of the series, whatever that means, takes place in Las Vegas.

Who's in it: Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.), Pizza CEO Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul Rick Perry, Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum.

It begins at 8 pm ET, airs on CNN, will stream live, and is hosted by Anderson Cooper. Who are their commentators? [More...]

CNN political contributors and analysts also on hand in Las Vegas will include Gloria Borger, Ron Brownstein, Alex Castellanos, Ari Fleischer, David Gergen and Mary Matalin.

What's to talk about? Rick Perry's plan to militarize the war on drugs?

A hawk when it comes to Mexican cartels, Perry said in New Hampshire this month that as president he would consider sending U.S. troops into Mexico to combat drug violence there and stop it from spilling into the United States.

...Since 2008, with the support of the Republican-dominated Texas legislature and more than $400 million in taxpayer funds, Perry has pressed forward on his own version of a surge — called Operation Border Star — paying millions for equipment, weapons and the overtime salaries for sheriff’s deputies and local police to mount operations aimed at drug seizures and gang members.

Or flavor of the week Herman Cain and his disingenuous tax plan or electric fence "joke" or opposition to abortion even in cases of rape or incest?

What clowns. I'm more interested in who gets eliminated on DWTS and who gets chosen on the X-Factor (although tonight instead I'll be watching CNBC's "Billions Behind Bars" on the private prison industry and Frontline's "Lost in Detention" on the plight of immigrants locked up in US detention facilities.)

If you are watching, let us know what you think. (Update: I tuned in to the end of the pre-debate show and the CNN talking heads were totally drowned out by the protesters.)

< Cain's Tax Plan Would Help the Rich, Hurt the Poor | Cain: Would Empty Gitmo To Save One American Soldier >

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Republican Debate: Anyone Watching? | 35 comments (35 topical)

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Santorum accused Mittens (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by KeysDan on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:54:51 PM EST

of lying, Perry accused Mittens of hypocrisy, Ron Paul seemed weak and out of it, although he did keep his eyebrows in place. Gingrich assumed the role of the wise old fool. Bachman doesn't like Obama but does like walls on the border, and Cain isn't deep enough for his own pizza pans.

Despite Cain being a frontrunner these days, the focus was to topple Mittens. Gingrich refuted the statement that Mittens got his idea on Romneycare mandates from him and the Heritage Foundation, only to acknowledge that he did support the Heritage Foundation's mandate idea. Mittens was ready to go on Romneycare v Obamacare--great for MA only--bad otherwise.

All agree Obamacare needs to be repealed, but Bachman scored a point from the audience by noting that even Obama is "repealing" the long term care as too expensive. And, she knew the name of the Sec of HHS, to boot.

The most fun was the spate between Romney and Perry--the butting in on each other's responses. Perry, Mittens said, needs to listen to others if he wants to be president. Mittens sees Perry as his only competition and fears that, like Freddy Krueger, he could come back. Fat chance, as Paul Krugman noted, he is down to his hair.

: Molly Ivins (none / 0) (#16)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 09:31:02 PM EST

down to his hair
Couldn't help but think of Molly Ivins who called Perry Governor Good Hair.

Nope watching Gulliver with Joshua (none / 0) (#1)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 07:55:25 PM EST

Choosing Jack Black over Black Walnut.

After that I'm watching Laura Dern (none / 0) (#3)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:01:57 PM EST

in Enlightened because I must see her pry an elevator open with her bare hands while she rants that she will kill you. Beats 9,9,9 everytime.


I've been watching Enlightened too (none / 0) (#26)
by ruffian on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 06:42:36 AM EST

It has had some great moments so far. Love her descent to geek hell.


The guy with his action figures? (none / 0) (#27)
by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 07:23:03 AM EST

The geekdom boss? Pretty funny. Getting upset, losing her zen, and destroying cars in the process was pretty funny too. And her past affair partner in crime running downhill, falling, and becoming a grass stain seemed very real....like what would really happen to all of us in that situation. Her trying to talk to her mom was heartbreaking though. The show intrigues me.


Me too. I'm interested in seeing how (none / 0) (#33)
by ruffian on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 11:52:57 AM EST

the relationship with the geeks evolves, since, after all, those are my peeps and I relate to them a lot more than to her colleagues upstairs in the window offices. They were portrayed in all their wierd glory, warts and all, toeing the line of making fun of them too much. Waiting to see if they get used just as comic foils for her to rise above, or if she embraces them at some point.


: I hadn't thought about all that (none / 0) (#34)
by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 12:14:04 PM EST

I figured she would do anything to escape but that doesn't jibe with anything that she is attempting to learn about life. And now her coworker is reading her book on change, I think that actor is also in the real world the show writer. This could get really really good.

I'm watching. (none / 0) (#2)
by Tony on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 07:57:23 PM EST

I don't know why. They're just saying the word "Illegals" over and over again.

: In the town with the most illegals? (none / 0) (#4)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:02:48 PM EST

Priceless

: They're standing at podiums (none / 0) (#5)
by brodie on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:17:48 PM EST

on the front of which is this funny looking metal grille like the ones homeowners put over windows in high crime areas. Entirely appropriate picture as many of them advocated for a massive fence along the southern border.

Much feistier debate atmosphere (none / 0) (#6)
by brodie on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:23:09 PM EST

in this one. Lots of early attacks against Mr 999 about his silly plan and he didn't look convincing trying to defend it.

Attacks on Romney for flip floppery and for inspiring Obamacare. He just smiles and ends up launching a charge against the other candidate.

Perry much livelier but he doesn't have the smarts to duke it out for long against the Mittster. Still a vast improvement for Perry -- though coming one or two debates too late perhaps.

Yep. (none / 0) (#8)
by Tony on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:30:15 PM EST

Romney is wiping the floor with these clowns. At this point I think it's too much to hope that somehow he doesn't win the nomination.

Herman Cain's confusion in his response to Ron Paul about Occupy Wall Street was hilarious.


: Had to step outside (none / 0) (#11)
by brodie on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:50:41 PM EST

for some fresh air. What did Cain say?

God no (none / 0) (#7)
by andgarden on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:28:52 PM EST

I did watch about a half hour (none / 0) (#9)
by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:32:14 PM EST

against my better judgment. They all love the word "illegals" -- used as a noun. The audience cheered when they talked about illegals.

Ron Paul mentioned that minorities need to get a fairer shake in our criminal justice system and five people clapped -- hesitatingly.

It was the whitest audicence I've seen in awhile. I saw about 3 non-caucasians.

Rick Perry was in desperation mode, flailing at Mitt Romney because he "hired illegals" and "knew it for a year" before doing anything about it. Of course, that's not what happened. Romney didn't hire anyone. He retained the services of a company to tend his lawn and the company hired undocumented workers from Guatamala who the company sent to work on Romney's lawn. Never trust someone like Perry who exaggerates fact into fiction.

They were all outrageous in one way or another. When asked by a Latino in the audience what their message is for them, they all had the same refrain: It's not about Latinos, it's about the economy. Hardly the way to win over a voting bloc.

Michelle Bachman: For a former tax attorney, she was completely incomprehensible on the topic of taxes. Debate 101: Don't throw out statistics, and that's just what she did. 60% of this and 70% of that, along with some tax jargon. She didn't come across as knowledgeable, just lost in her own ivory tower.

Newt had some jokes. Since he has no chance, the audience indulged him and laughed.

Herman Cain could not defend his tax plan other than to say "apples and oranges."

What a bunch of losers, all of them.

: I counted about three (none / 0) (#15)
by brodie on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 09:15:28 PM EST

minorities total as well. Herm Cain, the Latino who asked a question, and I thought I spotted the propped up corpse in the front row of Wayne Newton, who I believe is part Cherokee.
Agree about Cain and his simplistic Johnny One Note way of answering specific charges about his disastrous 999 plan. As a Dem though I do want to encourage Repubs in their surprisingly strong and still resilient support for the pizza guy. I think he would make for a fine GOP nominee or at least VP selection.

not really watching (none / 0) (#10)
by loveed on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:44:56 PM EST

Without Huntsman there's no intelligence conversation.
Plus CNN always have the worse format. It's more about confrontation instead of substance.

: Well Newt agrees with you (none / 0) (#12)
by brodie on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 08:54:39 PM EST

about the CNN debate approach.
Definitely were fireworks in the first hour.

Did you pay attention to a smirking (none / 0) (#14)
by loveed on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 09:14:25 PM EST

Anderson Cooper? He allowed them to go way over there time. He was truly enjoying the bickering. This is why I hate CNN debates.
What was going on at the end, when the debate ended abruptly?

Are you saying (5.00 / 1) (#17)
by cal1942 on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 09:32:56 PM EST

Anderson shouldn't give them enough rope to hang themselves?


No, you shouldn't if you are (none / 0) (#18)
by jimakaPPJ on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 10:47:34 PM EST

interested in learning their positions/plans, etc.

If you want to carry the Democrats water, yes.


What positions? (5.00 / 2) (#20)
by Militarytracy on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 10:59:21 PM EST

How positively silly 9,9,9 is? Even Scarborough and his clan of R frat boys couldn't quit making fun of it this morning. Or how stupid it is to suggest that if you turn 9,9,9 upside down it becomes something that it has been secretly harboring, the fact that it is from the antichrist?

How about the sanity of having electrified fences right out of the movie Jurassic Park? The existing Republican party and base has no ideology other than one, hatred of Obama and saying NO to anything that comes out of his mouth. If he says the sky is blue, respond by saying that it really isn't and it usually has puffy white spots on it. Obama may rate pathetic with me but at least he isn't insane. He wins just for being sane.


Yes, we wanted to hear what the (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by KeysDan on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 08:27:16 AM EST

candidates think, as when Anderson asked over and over if they believed that those children of immigrants born here should (as they do now) be American citizens. A good question with no answer given. In fact, Perry's response was that it was Anderson's job to ask the questions and his to answer whatever he wants. So much for the format and learning what they think.


Thank you for watching it for me :) (none / 0) (#30)
by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 08:45:06 AM EST

: Your welcome. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
by KeysDan on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 09:12:18 AM EST

In my view, Mittens won--for in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is King. Or, Obama won, if you adhere to the lesser of two evils theory.

he's talking about (none / 0) (#21)
by jondee on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 11:08:31 PM EST

all those socially liberal positions, that, once aired, will put the Repubs over the top with most of the folks here.


Positions? Plans? (none / 0) (#22)
by cal1942 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 12:09:00 AM EST

Gag.

A stupid cacophony of crap.

Their positions and plans are entirely predictable, the same old worn out Conservative nonsense. Fantasy and wishful thinking.

We've heard it all before. It never changes. Only the names and faces change.


There is nothing new here (none / 0) (#24)
by loveed on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 02:42:16 AM EST

The country is in trouble. The media wants to play games.
This group including Romney should have been exposed a long time ago. The repubs. don't want Romney. But the media does. So they keep playing this game. No one takes Cain seriously except the media. Perry is a moron. But the media loves him.
After six debates,we still don't know where they want to take the country.
Where do they get these audience from?


"No human being is illegal" (none / 0) (#19)
by diogenes on Tue Oct 18, 2011 at 10:47:36 PM EST

Maybe not, but if that isn't just a semantic statement then what you are really saying is that there should be absolutely OPEN borders--thus, no one from another country will be here without documentation, or whatever euphemism one chooses to use.
If that is the underlying argument then maybe postings and debates should be about whether borders should be wide open instead of about smaller incidents or presidential candidates' choice of words.

What she is really saying (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by sj on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 09:03:21 AM EST

is that no human beings are illegal. They may be undocumented, but they are not illegal. So yes, it's a semantic statement, and one she feels strongly about. Words matter.

This is hardly the first time J has made that point so I'm surprised you are confused about it.


: confusion about policy (none / 0) (#35)
by diogenes on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 07:37:03 PM EST

I guess I'm confused about whether J is in favor of absolutely open borders with no restrictions on entry into the country. The only way to enforce rules about entry is to have detentions and deportations, which everyone here seems to hate so much.

: well said sj (none / 0) (#36)
by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 08:02:56 PM EST

Frontline's "Lost in Detention" was (none / 0) (#23)
by gyrfalcon on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 01:27:54 AM EST

absolutely devastating. The correspondent was Maria Hinojosa, who disappeared from CNN some years ago in one of their layoffs. Great to see/hear her back again. She's top-notch.

Anybody who missed this, it's really worth going to the Frontline Web site at PBS.org, where you can watch the program on line or read the transcript, and they have lots of additional info on the subject, as well.

SITE VIOLATION - SPAM (none / 0) (#29)
by MO Blue on Wed Oct 19, 2011 at 08:41:39 AM EST