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Shot Fired into George Zimmerman's Vehicle

Someone fired a shot through the passenger window of George Zimmerman's vehicle today. He was taken to hospital in an ambulance, but was able to walk on his own. (Added: he sustained minor injuries.)

Kenneth Cornell told WESH 2’s Gail Paschall-Brown that he called 911 after the alleged shooter approached him and said, “I shot George Zimmerman.” Cornell said the alleged shooter then got on the phone with dispatch and explained what happened.

[More...]

Why is the media headline "George Zimmerman Involved in Shooting" instead of "George Zimmerman Shot at Inside his Vehicle?" As of now, there's no indication he shot back, shot first or fired a shot at all. (Added: There was no firing of a weapon by Zimmerman, according to the police press conference.) If, as his attorney says, a car drove up alongside his and shot into it, Zimmerman was the victim of a shooting today, not a co-participant.

The shooter was Matthew Apperson. He hasn't been charged yet. Here's a photo from his Facebook page.

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  • Display: Sort:
    I just deleted a comment (5.00 / 2) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:40:03 PM EST
    for race-baiting.

    Not (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:58:03 AM EST
    upset, disappointed. I really enjoy slapping down your wild speculations and theories.

    If the point is Apperson is just another garden variety fool with a gun I pretty much figured that out by myself, but thanks anyway.

    garden variety (none / 0) (#75)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 09:05:54 AM EST
    If the point is Apperson is just another garden variety fool with a gun I pretty much figured that out by myself

    He's more like your garden variety Zimmerman-hating nutcase -- with a gun.

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#76)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 09:13:08 AM EST
    may be correct, we due tend to produce some exotic specimens down here in Flori-duh.

    Parent
    McBain... (5.00 / 5) (#99)
    by ScottW714 on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:57:49 PM EST
    ...putting someone down for obvious bias is about the funniest thing I have read here.

    The guy lives on his gut instinct no matter how much evidence and/or links are provided, he always seems to know something he can never actually prove or source.  Which by some miracle, always matches his political views.

    Black hole declares kettle is black.

    I haven't treated Zimmerman in (5.00 / 3) (#100)
    by Anne on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:59:54 PM EST
    any way - I don't even know the man.  I've expressed opinions and theories, asked questions and whatnot, but treating him in any way calls for actual interaction with him, and sorry - but I haven't had any of that.  

    Whatever he did - or didn't do - in the eyes of the legal system doesn't change what he did on that walkway: he killed someone, jim.  In about as up-close and personal a way as one can without using one's bare hands.  

    I never thought any of it ever needed to happen; that's my bias.  That the decisions he made and the judgment he exercised cascaded to the endpoint of someone being dead.  In the final moments, yes, he was fighting for his life, or at least believed himself to be, and that's the only thing the law cared about.  Do I think he intended to kill anyone that night?  No, I don't.

    But he lives with the consequences.  Is the media fair?  Do they care about the facts?  Please - we both know it's a rare day when the media gets it right.  Now, George is just headline material each and every time something happens that brings cops to the scene.

    I hope the man can find his way, soon, for his sake and for the sake of all the people who are just plain tired of hearing his name.

    You're right. They aren't occurring in a vacuum. (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Jack203 on Tue May 12, 2015 at 02:26:14 PM EST
    The number of threats to GZ's life are in the thousands.

    GZ is almost executed in broad daylight...and you still find the need to attack him?

    Anything that suggested GZ was a good person (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 08:17:11 PM EST
    was ignored by most in the media. He was painted as a racist despite proof to the opposite. You can see the effect that had on the gullible by reading this blog.

    Apparently not so gullible that they (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Anne on Tue May 12, 2015 at 08:34:19 PM EST
    believe much of what you have to say, lol.

    Parent
    Proper headline would have read (3.86 / 7) (#8)
    by CoralGables on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:48:26 PM EST
    "George Zimmerman Involved in Shooting Again"

    "George Zimmerman Again"... (4.33 / 6) (#17)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:15:50 PM EST
    for brevity, a gun being involved goes without saying! ;)

    Parent
    I wonder if GZ will ever be able to sue (3.50 / 2) (#37)
    by McBain on Mon May 11, 2015 at 07:19:14 PM EST
    the media?  If it turns out Apperson is a crazy stalker it goes to show the damage NBC, ABC and the others did with their biased reporting.  

    I'm still amazed at the people in TL who should know better but keep blaming GZ.  

    Suppose it's the other way around? (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue May 12, 2015 at 05:19:48 AM EST
    According to The Daily Beast, Apperson called the police on Zimmerman twice in 2014, and police confirmed that a gun was flashed and that Zimmerman admitted to the confrontation. No charges were filed.

    Now, while I don't wish George Zimmerman ill, I will say that the man seems to get into an inordinate number of serious confrontations with people. And the common denominator in each of them has been Zimmerman himself.

    I have a young cousin in the Midwest who's the same way. He'll never admit to being the instigator in various dustups with others, but he sure appears to repeatedly attract an awful lot of trouble for someone who's always claiming to just be minding his own business.

    I do worry about him because like Zimmerman, he also walks around packing heat, and in at least one instance, he pulled it on someone with whom he was arguing and was briefly arrested for it, although no charges were filed.

    Per a comprehensive study conducted in Philadelphia between 2003 and 2006 by Dr. Charles Branas of the University of Pennsylvania, "individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45." (Emphasis is mine.)

    Further, according to Arthur Kellerman, MD, MPH in the Journal of Trauma, Injury, Infection, and Critical Care (1998, pp. 263-267), a gun in the household is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure someone in a domestic homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting, than to be used in self-defense.

    Does carrying a firearm give people a sense of empowerment that causes them to overreact in tense situations, or embolden them to attempt things that they probably otherwise wouldn't, had they been unarmed? One can only speculate, but there certainly appears to be a strong correlation between the possession of a firearm and an increased probability of being shot.

    I support the right of people to bear arms under the Second Amendment -- but if they do, they should realize that statistically, they're actually much less safe than were they unarmed.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I've already explained what my bias is (2.00 / 1) (#120)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 04:02:35 PM EST
    I'm pro defense.  Innocent until proven guilty.

    Your bias has to do with this...
    "Regardless of the fact that Zimmerman was acquitted of the charges in the Martin case, he killed someone.  I don't care who you are, that's a heavy load to carry.  Even if he feels he was acting to save his own life, he still has to live with that basic truth: he killed someone.  And everywhere he goes, he's that guy, the guy who killed someone."

    You don't seem to believe in a justifiable homicide. Zimmerman, the Baltimore Cops, Darren Wilson.  You go out of your way to criticize their actions. They will always be guilty of killing someone to you.

    You don't seem to have a basic (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by Anne on Tue May 12, 2015 at 04:46:44 PM EST
    grasp of language.

    My point isn't that George will always be guilty of something, and it's not that in those moments on the ground, I don't believe he didn't think his life was in danger and acted accordingly - I've already recognized both the acquittal and the reasons for it.

    What I'm saying is that for George, it doesn't go away just because he was acquitted.  If you were driving down the road and a child darted out in front of you, and you struck and killed the child, would you be able to let that go just because you didn't do it on purpose and it was a total accident and no one blamed you for it?  I know that if that happened to me, I'd probably need some help with it - I'd probably be wishing I had taken a different road, or left my house sooner, or something, anything that would make it not happen.

    I think what startles me a little is your inclusion of "Baltimore cops" in what appears to be examples of justifiable homicide.  I can't even imagine what you see in that case that leads you to the conclusion that Freddie's death was justified - but are you now accepting the the cops were responsible for it?

    What you don't seem to grasp is that even if one believes that the accused is innocent until proved guilty - and I do - it doesn't mean one has to shut his or her eyes to facts and information.  I mean, what would be the point of arresting or trying anyone if we're not going to consider all the evidence?  

    I don't believe anyone is as pure in their beliefs as you want to portray yourself as being; and if you can't understand that regardless of the circumstances, the taking of a life is a difficult and life-changing experience for the person who took it, I have to question whether you are even human.

    Parent

    You still don't get it (none / 0) (#130)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 05:35:09 PM EST
    The Baltimore cops haven't been proven guilty of anything yet.  You say you believe in innocent until proven guilty but your comments don't back that up.  Give them a chance before you write them off like you did with Zimmerman.

       

    Parent

    Is that so? (5.00 / 3) (#135)
    by Yman on Tue May 12, 2015 at 06:27:49 PM EST
    I've already explained what my bias is I'm pro defense.  Innocent until proven guilty
    .

    And yet you're not defending the one potentially facing charges in this case.  Just the opposite, in fact.

    Heh,.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 3) (#137)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 06:49:18 PM EST
    poor Apperson, getting no love from either side of the room, doesn't he deserve a vigorous defense from some one?

    Parent
    Has he been charged with anyting yet? (none / 0) (#142)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 08:07:08 PM EST
    Last I checked he hasn't been arrested. Hard to defend someone of a crime they haven't been charged with.  

    Parent
    Not hard at all (5.00 / 4) (#146)
    by Yman on Tue May 12, 2015 at 08:42:57 PM EST
    you're defending Zimmerman in this case and attacking Apperson, but it's good to know that you will immediately start defending Apperson if charges are filed.

    Heh.

    Parent

    Hypocrite (5.00 / 3) (#172)
    by sj on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:33:47 AM EST
    Has he been charged with anyting yet? (none / 0) (#142)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:07:08 PM MDT

    Last I checked he hasn't been arrested. Hard to defend someone of a crime they haven't been charged with.

    GZ hasn't been charged with a crime either. And yet you and others have been creeping up and down this thread defending him right and left (there, I think that covers all directions).

    But, since you are all about presumption of innocence I will eagerly await your vigorous defense of Apperson when and if charges are filed.

    Parent

    Probably because there are (none / 0) (#1)
    by Anne on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:07:25 PM EST
    reports that Zimmerman was waving a gun around, which would seem to denote "involvement," at least in my opinion.

    Also seeing reports that Zimmerman and the shooter may have been involved in an ongoing dispute.

    Supposed to be some kind of presser this afternoon, so perhaps more details will emerge at that point.

    And it's Ol' George... (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:26:34 PM EST
    He gets involved in shootings like Scooby Doo gets involved in mysteries.

    Whatever the circumstances, at least it was a fair fight this time...some arsehole with a gun vs. some arsehole with a gun.  Have fun boys, just mind the innocent decent unarmed bystanders please! lol

    Parent

    The Second Amendment's (4.50 / 2) (#5)
    by oculus on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:41:13 PM EST
    Kardashian.  

    Parent
    I like... (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:02:50 PM EST
    the 2nd Amendment...this f*ckin' guy not so much.

    Much like the NRA, he gives the 2nd Amendment and responsible & sane gun owners a bad name.

    Parent

    and you have no problem with (none / 0) (#28)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:18:26 PM EST
    Apperson having a concealed weapons permit? Why is Zimmerman's gun an issue when he didn't fire one today or show one in the September incident?

    Parent
    It doesn't appear to be difficult (none / 0) (#50)
    by oculus on Mon May 11, 2015 at 11:49:22 PM EST
    for anyone to obtain a concealed carry permit in FL:

    link

    Parent

    Oculus, it's only difficult (none / 0) (#190)
    by fishcamp on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:25:53 PM EST
    to get a Florida concealed weapon permit if you don't pass the Federal application section, for the many reasons your link provided.  There are a few gun shops down here that offer classes.  The best one is in a barber shop in Key West, where the licensed instructor just talks with you while you're getting a haircut, and then signs or doesn't sign your application.  He is a very savvy guy and seems to know if people don't know about guns.

    Parent
    This is where FL (none / 0) (#203)
    by oculus on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:10:09 PM EST
    law is much less onerous than, say, CA law:

    (g

    ) Desires a legal means to carry a concealed weapon or firearm for lawful self-defense;


    Parent
    the past encounter (5.00 / 3) (#23)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:41:12 PM EST
    was in September. There is no indication he waved a gun at the time of the shooting. The vehicle pulled up alongside Zimmerman's and the man fired into it. Even if he had waved a gun hours earlier (and we don't know if he did) that doesn't justify someone shooting at him.

    Regardless of past disputes, George Zimmerman was the victim of a shooting today, not a co-participant.

    Parent

    But that's not what people want to hear (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by McBain on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:55:26 PM EST
    which is why the media presents it as "Zimmerman involved in shooting"

    Why should the media clean up their act? They've gotten away with it so far.  GZ had chance to sue NBC for their editing of the phone call but Judge Nelson dismissed the case.

    Parent

    Would you please just stop (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by NYShooter on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:46:43 PM EST
    the truly childish whining regarding THE MEDIA? The media is made up of countless thousand of individuals and systems. Some are good, some are lousy, most just are bland. Occasionally you get some gossip, and/or slanted types, but, they're not really news media. My gosh, you make it sound like there's this single, omnipotent potentate, sitting on some evil throne (Like "The Wizard" from Oz.) The way you carry on about "The Media," you'd think this evil Wizard spends his days trying to figure out how to irritate McBain. You want to sue this one, arrest that one, and have judges compel some others to toe the line, or else.

    And, this irrational compulsion you have with The Media, and how it/they/who screwed your unfairly persecuted Zimmerman. Funny how it works that almost everyone I know believes The Media was in-the-bag FOR Zimmerman throughout  the whole ordeal. That was my opinion then, and still remains so. When I tried to comment I backed every item with expert evidence (which, unfortunately, Jeralyn saw fit to delete almost all.) It's her blog, so I'm not debating the point. I just shrug my shoulders and move on.

    But, unlike you, I thought the media was so skewed in Zimmerman's favor that, had they/it done, even a yeoman's job of "reporting," that lying, murderous misfit might just have been convicted. You see, you and I both know what I just said was My "Opinion," but the Host will delete this comment anyway, claiming I stated opinion-as-fact. Everyone here, who tried to point out the obvious misinformation the media was spouting, knows what I'm saying is true. Yet, when this was pointed out, the best the commenters on "your" side could come back with was, "If you don't like it, get your own blog." I got it, the roolz. The entire media, including most blogs like this one, had this bizarre fascination with finding him innocent.

    If there had been an honest, dispassionate, unbiased, empirical, cognitive, and, somewhat competent investigation, the evidence would have been so overwhelming, even you would have proclaimed "Z," Guilty. That's a fact, and its the truth.

    Parent

    We Don't Know if Zimmerman Was a Victim (3.00 / 2) (#35)
    by rcade on Mon May 11, 2015 at 07:07:01 PM EST
    If Zimmerman waved a gun at Apperson moments earlier, that could be used to justify Apperson's decision to shoot, could it not?

    Calling Zimmerman a victim assumes that he did nothing threatening to Apperson, which we do not yet know.

    Parent

    I'm no attorney; but I don't think someone (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Mr Natural on Mon May 11, 2015 at 08:00:17 PM EST
    waving a gun at you in the past, however recent, is considered justification for shooting at them in the present.

    I'd guess that the gun would have to still be in the hands of the first gun waver for the second gun shooter to get away with shooting.

    Can any real attorneys quantify the amount of time that can separate the two events for the second to be considered justified?  

    This is the bottom line problem with guns.  The people who don't want much of anything to do with them are the only people who can be trusted with them.  The people who want guns, some of whom really, really need guns, are precisely the people society shouldn't allow anywhere near them.

    Parent

    The laws concerning justification (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Peter G on Mon May 11, 2015 at 10:18:35 PM EST
    for the use of deadly force (such as shooting a gun in the direction of someone's head), including the law of self-defense, vary widely from state to state. This incident occurred in Florida. As some of us may recall from extensive discussions on the subject a few years back, Florida law on the subject is unusually supportive of the shooter.

    Parent
    Maybe (none / 0) (#33)
    by FlJoe on Mon May 11, 2015 at 05:01:05 PM EST
    I sense some kind of stalking behavior by this Apperson guy, however I can also easily picture two fools with guns driving down Lake Mary Blvd,waving their guns at each other with GZ being the lesser fool, at least this time.

    Parent
    reports (2.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:22:26 PM EST
    Probably because there are reports that Zimmerman was waving a gun around, which would seem to denote "involvement," at least in my opinion.

    Do you have a link to those "reports"???

    Parent

    You want (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by NYShooter on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:37:38 PM EST
    a "Link????"

    just As...."Sooon::! AS I CAN!!!!"

    Breeeathing  

    (s  l  o  w  l  y ....... N O W........ahhhhh")

    Parent

    Is your Google broken????? (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Anne on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:44:13 PM EST
    Here you go, Chip, from CNN:

    An employee at a nearby business, Kenneth Cornell, said he was exiting his car after lunch when a man drove up and started yelling about the shooting.

    The man shouted to Cornell: "I shot George Zimmerman, call 911. I don't have a phone."

    Cornell said the man didn't know whether Zimmerman was hurt. He called 911.

    According to Cornell, the man told him that he and Zimmerman have had three disputes. This time, Zimmerman waved a gun and the man shot at him, according to Cornell.

    Did you even read Jeralyn's link??????

    See, here's the link:
    Here:

    and here's a quote from it:

    Lake Mary Police Chief Steve Bracknell said the shooting may have been related to an "ongoing dispute" involving Zimmerman and another person.

    Have at it.

    Parent

    Priceless: (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Mr Natural on Mon May 11, 2015 at 08:03:08 PM EST
    Weird priorities.  The guy had a gun but no phone.

    Parent
    Anne (1.33 / 3) (#10)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:54:45 PM EST
    So then it's only one report not plural --

    and that one report came from the shooter himself --not from an independent witness or bystander.

    Wipe that biased egg off your face.

    Parent

    "Reports," as in (4.33 / 6) (#13)
    by Anne on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:03:18 PM EST
    "media reports," of which I linked to two.  

    Two being more than one, that's "reports" not "report."

    Now, kindly take your pointy little chihuahua teeth out of my ankle.

    Parent

    Anne's reporting??? (1.00 / 3) (#18)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:24:11 PM EST
    "media reports," of which I linked to two.  

    But the source of those reports is the shooter, right???

    [Hint -- read the article]

    And the shooter is Matt Apperson -- the same psycho who has been stalking him for some time now.

    You really are a piece of work.

    Parent

    No Proof Apperson Stalked Zimmerman (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by rcade on Mon May 11, 2015 at 07:09:14 PM EST
    There's no proof Apperson has ever stalked Zimmerman or done anything inappropriate in his interactions with him.

    Parent
    There is no proof that Zimmerman stalked Apperson (none / 0) (#53)
    by Payaso on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:46:10 AM EST
    The only physical evidence in all three incidents is a bullet hole in Zimmerman's vehicle.

    Parent
    Which is, of course ... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Yman on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:54:35 AM EST
    ... entirely consistent with either version of events.

    Parent
    Do tell (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Yman on Mon May 11, 2015 at 10:27:30 PM EST
    And the shooter is Matt Apperson -- the same psycho who has been stalking him for some time now.

    Do you have a link for THAT specious claim?

    Parent

    I thought gun advocates (5.00 / 1) (#161)
    by MKS on Wed May 13, 2015 at 08:46:00 AM EST
    would view the use of a weapon more favorably here.....

    Why so certain that it was not self defense?

    Parent

    What is the deal with the (4.20 / 5) (#58)
    by Anne on Tue May 12, 2015 at 06:50:42 AM EST
    multiple question marks?  I mean, when I see one, I know it means the sentence it precedes is a question.  Pretty sure everyone else does, too.

    So, what does three question marks mean?  That it's a really, really, REALLY important question?  In which case I guess you consider all of your questions to be extremely important.  

    Or does it mean that instead of asking the question from a respectable distance (one question mark), you are figuratively nose-to-nose with someone, demanding answers?

    It makes you seem, well, more than a little hysterical.


    Parent

    Ouch, I Can Feel the Heat... (none / 0) (#19)
    by ScottW714 on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:25:57 PM EST
    ...way down in here from that burn.

    Parent
    "Pointy little Chihuahua teeth...." (none / 0) (#160)
    by MKS on Wed May 13, 2015 at 08:41:27 AM EST
    Snort, that was a good one....

    But, you do know Chihuahuas can be very aggressive.....recklessly so.....in real life...  

    Parent

    The media has been terrible on (none / 0) (#6)
    by McBain on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:41:53 PM EST
    the ongoing Zimmerman saga.  Why should it stop now?

    CNN is still repeating the Crump and co. false narrative of the TM shooting.  This was from today's article by Mariano Castillo and AnneClaire Stapleton...

    "He was instructed not to get out of his SUV or approach the person, but Zimmerman disregarded the instructions."

    As for today's shooting Sunny Hostin was going out of her way to make GZ look like a crazy psychopath.

    How many incidents of road rage and (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by Anne on Mon May 11, 2015 at 02:50:34 PM EST
    domestic altercations does a person have to have before one sees a pattern of someone with anger issues?

    Yeah, blame the media; that always works.

    Parent

    Never convicted as far as I no. (3.50 / 2) (#11)
    by Redbrow on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:02:12 PM EST
    You obviously do not subscribe to the concept of nnocent until proven guilty.

    By your logic everybody should judge Freddie Gray by his extensive arrest record and conclude he deserved mistreatment, if in fact it proven he was mistreated.

    Parent

    So, you're saying none of those (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by Anne on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:10:38 PM EST
    things happened?  That he wasn't involved in any road rage incidents, that police weren't called numerous times to girlfriend's or ex-girlfriend's homes?

    Oh - and hate to tell you, but that last sentence of yours is not even close to my logic, it's just where you desperately want to go with it - finding a way to blame Freddie Gray for his own death.

    Parent

    the past is irrelevant to (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:01:39 PM EST
    today's shooting. You don't get to shoot at someone due to a past grievance. He's a victim today.

    Parent
    The Presumption Zimmerman is a Victim (3.67 / 3) (#87)
    by rcade on Tue May 12, 2015 at 11:33:44 AM EST
    I am surprised that Jeralyn is so quick to call George Zimmerman a "victim" in this incident. It seems like that's as much of an undetermined assumption as calling him the aggressor.

    All we know for a fact is that Zimmerman and Apperson were in their vehicles and Apperson shot a gun at Zimmerman's vehicle.

    In my shoot-em-up state of Florida, there are several scenarios in which Apperson claims self defense and escapes punishment. One is what he reportedly told the person who called 911 for him: That Zimmerman was waving his gun around threateningly before Apperson fired.

    Parent

    While (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:48:58 PM EST
    I do believe Apperson has committed a crime in this episode, I find it hard to believe Zimmerman is blameless.

    Given that GZ was only visiting town for a couple of days, I find it hard to believe this was a random encounter. The odds of them accidently crossing paths on a busy highway in the middle of the day during GZ's short stay seems pretty remote.

    There has been plenty of talk of A stalking Z and given the facts as known that can't be dismissed. However, short of staking out Z's parents home and/or lying in wait on the side of the road week after week I see no likely path to the encounter being completely instigated by A.

    All this leads me to believe that either this encounter was a highly improbable random event and GZ is the unluckiest man in the world, or GZ somehow "allowed" it to happen.

    Of course this is all idle speculation but Occam's Razor would seems to point to GZ as being partially responsible.

    Parent

    If the shooter reasonably believed (3.00 / 2) (#38)
    by MKS on Mon May 11, 2015 at 07:43:11 PM EST
    Zimmerman were armed (based on past experience), then a defense of self defense should seem to apply.

    Parent
    MKS (none / 0) (#41)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon May 11, 2015 at 09:18:50 PM EST
    If the shooter reasonably believed Zimmerman were armed (based on past experience), then a defense of self defense should seem to apply.

    So if you know that another person is carrying a gun that gives you the right to shoot him???

    You're kidding right???

    Parent

    Hey, it's Florida. (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by oculus on Mon May 11, 2015 at 11:24:24 PM EST
    - Jake (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by Mr Natural on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:24:00 AM EST
    Very true... (none / 0) (#30)
    by MikeB on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:43:33 PM EST
    It's simply unbelievable how much people are still pushing all the false narratives today. Physical evidence and eyewitness testimony has not been able to counter claims made by Crump and Co. If this was a vigilante type attack, I think GZ might be able to prove damage. Having said that, I'll wait for the facts.

    Parent
    False narratives (5.00 / 3) (#34)
    by MO Blue on Mon May 11, 2015 at 05:02:39 PM EST
    Would that be like opining about if it was a vigilante type attack?

    Thank heavens you are waiting for actual facts. Gawd only knows what you would come up with if you decided to speculate or make something up. :-(

    Parent

    Yeah, blame the victim (none / 0) (#14)
    by Redbrow on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:04:37 PM EST
    That always works.

    Parent
    Before his trial (none / 0) (#20)
    by McBain on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:29:20 PM EST
    The media went out of it's way to paint GZ in a bad light. You know this as well as I.

    Since, his trial I'm not sure what happened in any of the incidents you mentioned.  Do you? There weren't any charges.  What exactly has he done wrong to justify all the hate?

    Parent

    Yeah... (5.00 / 6) (#22)
    by ScottW714 on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:39:44 PM EST
    ...if only the media would report the 'facts', poor George wouldn't keep getting involved in gun non-sense.

    I love how the right jumps to a buffoon's defense regardless of what actually happened.  I suggest you nominate another 2nd Amendment deity and you won't be forced to defend the buffoonery that is GZ.

    Parent

    That would be the same media (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by Repack Rider on Tue May 12, 2015 at 01:46:11 AM EST
    ..that couldn't be bothered to check whether GW Bush was lying about WMD.

    Didn't I tell you that DailyKos is several times more accurate than commercial media?  DK scooped the NYT by two years on the WMD lie.  Why are you reading newspapers?

    Parent

    C'mon man... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:05:17 PM EST
    one hardly has to go "out of their way" to do that McBain.

    Though I'm of the opinion that any gun owner who doesn't leave their piece safe and secure at home for home defense only is on the psycho side...not just George. ymmv

    Parent

    So (none / 0) (#25)
    by FlJoe on Mon May 11, 2015 at 03:57:48 PM EST
    What? The media is terrible on pretty much everything. You can hardly blame them this case it's just to easy, GZ and gunplay, the headlines write themselves and they can just dust off the old talking points, accuracy and context be damned. Easy ratings for a cycle or two, profits!

    That being said, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...........

    Parent

    If we use the walks like a duck method for (none / 0) (#55)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 01:18:38 AM EST
    figuring things out then Matt Apperson is a wacko-stalker who's guilty of attempted murder.  I'd rather wait for more facts to come out.  

    Parent
    Why would you start now (5.00 / 5) (#81)
    by CoralGables on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:15:58 AM EST
    You've never waited for facts before.

    Parent
    When have I rushed to judgement? (none / 0) (#86)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 11:23:06 AM EST
     

    Parent
    McBain: "If it turns out Apperson is a crazy stalker it goes to show the damage NBC, ABC and the others did with their biased reporting."

    ... that Mr. Apperson is a "crazy stalker," based upon -- what, exactly?

    Parent

    You ALMOST managed (5.00 / 4) (#94)
    by sj on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:44:20 PM EST
    Replying To:

    When have I rushed to judgement? (none / 0) (#86)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:23:06 AM MDT

    to stun me into silence.

    Parent
    Doesn't look like you can point out (none / 0) (#104)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 02:11:49 PM EST
    anything either.

    Parent
    You just keep saying that (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by sj on Tue May 12, 2015 at 02:24:17 PM EST
    Replying To:

    Doesn't look like you can point out (none / 0) (#104)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 01:11:49 PM MDT

    anything either.

    But it won't be any more true next time than it was this time.

    I simply choose where to spend energy. Feeding the under bridge dwellers is not my choice.

    Usually.

    Parent

    sj, time to bring out the (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by fishcamp on Wed May 13, 2015 at 07:55:36 AM EST
    troll montage...

    Parent
    McBain: "Doesn't look like you can point out anything either."

    Are you really that obtuse and dull-minded -- or do you just play that role here deliberately for the purpose of trolling? Because at this point, that's exactly what you're doing.

    Parent

    its not just CNN (none / 0) (#148)
    by ding7777 on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:29:55 PM EST
    the other day a commenter on another thread repeated the false narrative

    Parent
    People will often believe what they want (none / 0) (#149)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:51:23 PM EST
    to believe.  They thought Zimmerman was the great white defendant. They thought he was a large racist who murdered an innocent little boy.  By the time the facts came out, it was too late... they had too much invested in hating Zimmerman and the damage was done.  

    I hoped everyone would learn from the fiasco but the same nonsense was repeated in other cases.

    I guess you have to give credit to Crump and co. They knew how to appeal to their base.  I just wonder if any of those people realize they were used?  

    Parent

    Looks like Zimmerman and the gunman (none / 0) (#26)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:01:25 PM EST
    have a long history:
    Zimmerman and Apperson were [previously] involved in a road-rage incident in September [2014], when Apperson claimed Zimmerman threatened to shoot and kill him, according to authorities.  Apperson said that the threat was verbalized and no gun was ever displayed.


    'GZ involved in shooting' (none / 0) (#31)
    by ruffian on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:54:12 PM EST
    is basically a quickie headline...foe the start when they just know something happened. Not inaccurate, just not complete. The local headline has now changed to 'GZ injured in shooting'.


    I Have Noticed... (none / 0) (#32)
    by ScottW714 on Mon May 11, 2015 at 04:57:47 PM EST
    ...that some online news sources will have the attention grabbing 'headline', but then when you click, the actual story has a different headline that is usually more accurate and less attention seeking.

    It really ticks me off.

    But in this case, they could put 'George Zimmerman' and everyone would still click IMO, no need to hype.

    Parent

    From the Daily Mail (none / 0) (#42)
    by Uncle Chip on Mon May 11, 2015 at 10:02:14 PM EST
    In an interview with CNN, Don West, Zimmerman's lawyer, said; 'The man pulled up next to George yelling obscenities at him.'

    Prior to this he said the man had been flashing his lights and honking at his client.

    He then said that Zimmerman recognized the man from months before and began to roll up his window.

    That is when the man fired at him, Zimmerman told West.



    Well there you have it (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by CoralGables on Mon May 11, 2015 at 10:14:46 PM EST
    It must be true if George said it.

    Parent
    Moral of the story (none / 0) (#48)
    by MKS on Mon May 11, 2015 at 10:58:00 PM EST
    don't get in a gun fight with Zimmerman....even if you do not get shot, you will be blamed.....

    Parent
    From WSEH - Orlando (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by Yman on Mon May 11, 2015 at 10:37:35 PM EST
    Kenneth Cornell, who works at the nearby Cyrus Diagnostic Imaging, said Apperson ran up to him about 1 p.m. saying he had just shot George Zimmerman.

    Cornell said he called 911 and handed the phone over to Apperson.

    "He said it was a road rage incident, that they were driving down the street and George pulled a gun on him," Cornell said.

    See how that works?

    Parent

    Who is Matt Apperson (none / 0) (#59)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:00:10 AM EST
    Who is Matt Apperson

    See How THAT works --

    Parent

    Your (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:11:28 AM EST
    point being? I don't think anyone here thinks Apperson is a prince of a guy.

    Parent
    Your point being? (2.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:16:57 AM EST
    Your point being?

    Do you have a problem informing people???

    Parent

    Sorry (5.00 / 3) (#63)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:36:22 AM EST
    Chip, you usually are trying to make a point with your posts. I guess I just miss your, often spectacularly wrong, analysis.

    Parent
    Not really (none / 0) (#66)
    by Yman on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:46:43 AM EST
    I haven't read your link (on my phone), but it's probably not an area a GZ advocate should go    

    Parent
    The pictures show a bullet hole (none / 0) (#52)
    by Payaso on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:41:58 AM EST
    in the closed passenger-side window.  The window appears to be heavily tinted.  So how did the other driver see Zimmerman waving a gun around?

    tinted window (2.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:11:57 AM EST
    The window appears to be heavily tinted.  So how did the other driver see Zimmerman waving a gun around?

    Exactly --

    And look at the location of that bullet hole. It's toward the back of that passenger window meaning that it was fired by the coward slightly from behind his  head from a blindspot where Zimmerman couldn't see it coming.

    His momma's hiring of Mark Nejame is pretty good indication that an indictment is coming.

    Parent

    The hiring of a lawyer is a good (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Anne on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:53:33 AM EST
    indication that someone wants legal advice, which, as Jeralyn and other lawyers here will tell you, is the smart move whenever someone is or may be involved with the legal system.


    Parent
    The windows could have been down earlier (none / 0) (#54)
    by McBain on Tue May 12, 2015 at 01:08:38 AM EST
    but even if that's the case, it's going to be hard to justify the shooting.

    I heard on CNN the cops weren't all that interested in investigating this incident.  If so that's crazy.    

    Parent

    Why would it be (none / 0) (#64)
    by Yman on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:41:26 AM EST
    ... "hard to justify"?

    Parent
    The Picture Could Be Deceiving (none / 0) (#181)
    by rcade on Wed May 13, 2015 at 12:25:43 PM EST
    I don't think photos are enough to judge that Zimmerman's window was too dark to see through. Under Florida law, tint on side windows must allow 28% of light in.

    But if you believe the window was too dark for Apperson to see whether Zimmerman was waving a gun, how did Apperson know the other driver was Zimmerman if Zimmerman kept the windows up?

    Parent

    rcade, as you know (none / 0) (#186)
    by fishcamp on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:04:23 PM EST
    many people down here have very dark window tint, way darker than legal.  Sounds like something GZ would have.  Sorry I had to mention his name

    Parent
    It is not surprising that the (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:56:19 AM EST
    comments seem to break the same way that the comments broke during the trial.

    comments (none / 0) (#72)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 08:37:13 AM EST

    comments seem to break the same way that the comments broke during the trial.

    Except in this case the Zimmerman haters are defending the guy who fired the gun, and into a moving vehicle no less.

    They give no credit to Zimmerman who had the right according to the law to fire back at Apperson in self defense but chose not to.

    Parent

    Whoa (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 04:11:45 PM EST
    there Chip, who's defending this fool?  Matter of fact he has appeared to outZimmer Zimmerman this time. So many fools, so many guns.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:38:32 PM EST
    but my bigger point was that we all carry our biases with us.

    Parent
    Kind of surprises me there is not a (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Tue May 12, 2015 at 08:37:52 AM EST
    mutual restraining order as to Apperson and Zimmerman.

    No court required... (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by kdog on Tue May 12, 2015 at 09:01:06 AM EST
    one guy go that way, the other guy go the other way...that's how normal people do when they can't get along for any reason.  We know George is non-normal, and it appears this other clown is cut from the same cloth.

    Some people just fiend for drama and confrontation.  Add gun nuttery to the mix, forget about it.

    In simpler times, getting your cock cleaned while out cruising for a bruising was typically sufficient to correct this bad behavior...but the damn guns ruined that too.

    Parent

    clock (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 09:56:00 AM EST
    getting your cock cleaned while out cruising for a bruising

    I trust you meant "clock" and hope you don't mind the spelling correction :).

    Parent

    LOL (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by sj on Tue May 12, 2015 at 12:38:33 PM EST
    It made me do a double take. And then the comments following made me literally laugh out loud.

    Parent
    Good catch... (none / 0) (#78)
    by kdog on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:01:27 AM EST
    a helluva typo! Good lord lol.

    Parent
    Defintely (none / 0) (#79)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:08:43 AM EST
    two totally different types of cruising.

    Parent
    And one should not... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:11:04 AM EST
    involve bruising...unless you're into that sort of thing;)

    Parent
    "We know George is not normal" (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Jack203 on Tue May 12, 2015 at 02:21:46 PM EST
    Nobody that went through what he went through would be.

    Those that have a vested interest in seeing Mr. Zimmerman destroyed are going to end up being disappointed here.

    There will almost certainly be a indictment to Mr. Apperman coming here.  All signs are pointing to an unstable stalker.  Apperman's first GZ "road rage" claim was surely bogus too.

    Parent

    Of (5.00 / 4) (#118)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 03:54:39 PM EST
    course no decent person should ever be normal after needlessly gunning down another person, justified or not. Of course any decent person would work to regain their "normalcy" by doubling down on walking the straight and narrow, of course a decent person would fade into the background and not give interviews and sign autographs at gun shows like some kind of hero. A decent person would fade from the national radar and we could all hopefully live happily ever after.

    No, we should not expect George to be normal, a little decency would be nice though.

    Parent

    George recently did (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by Jack203 on Thu May 14, 2015 at 07:41:43 PM EST
    some sort of interview bashing President Obama for his Trayvon could have been my son speech.  I disagreed with every single word coming out of George's mouth.

    However, George lost his job, his wife, his anonymity, his privacy and every cent he owned.  He has daily death threats and now an assassination attempt against his life.  

    So it's easy for you to say George should live a normal life and live decently, but I'd like to see any of you George bashers desperately wishing for his demise to walk a mile in his shoes.  He is doing everything he can to earn money honestly and survive.

    Parent

    Do you know him well? (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by Yman on Thu May 14, 2015 at 08:54:08 PM EST
    So it's easy for you to say George should live a normal life and live decently, but I'd like to see any of you George bashers desperately wishing for his demise to walk a mile in his shoes.  He is doing everything he can to earn money honestly and survive.

    No idea why you would claim FlJoe is "wishing for his demise", or how you think you know any of these things about GZ.

    Parent

    I was (none / 0) (#208)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 15, 2015 at 06:01:41 AM EST
    including George when I said and we could all hopefully live happily ever after.

    I get everybody's point, it must totally suck to be GZ. On certain levels he is a victim, however he is young and physically healthy, there are plenty of paths out of the woods available to him.

    Parent

    Agreed (none / 0) (#205)
    by McBain on Thu May 14, 2015 at 08:30:16 PM EST
    No one would hold up well under the stress GZ has been under.  He's probably still the most hated person in the country.  Most people are blind to the fact he has been a victim.  

    We don't have all the facts of the Apperson shooting but it may well have been, as you said, an assassination attempt.  

    I keep hoping a filmmaker will do an in depth feature length documentary on the entire GZ saga like HBO did for The West Memphis Three.  

    Parent

    George is a Victim... (none / 0) (#209)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 15, 2015 at 09:53:58 AM EST
    ...of his own making.

    Most of us have the wherewithal not to follow suspicious looking people into a dark area at night.  Because only bad things could happen, and if you want to call it victimization, so be it, still a very bad thing happened to GZ because he decided to follow a person he believed to be a criminal into a dark place.

    It was a bad decision, not illegal, but about as dumb as one can make, as proven.

    That would not happen to me or anyone I know.  For me that is precisely why I buy insurance, so if some idiot decides to pray on my property(George's perception) all I have to do is call the police and my insurance agent.  If they don't get him I am not out anything but a deductible.  The best part is I remain unharmed and in the same state I was the previous day, no one hates me, I didn't have to fight for my life, nor was I forced to shoot and kill a teenager.  And if TM had been packing, I would not be dead.

    I wish he could/would get it together because IMO before this is done I fear more people will die.  Maybe George, maybe a gf, maybe someone trying to cause him harm, or maybe one of his enemies.  Either way, it's a huge headache that society doesn't need to deal with and it puts people in danger that have done absolutely nothing.

    Assassination attempt ??  Talk about hyperbole and making conclusions without all the facts, which in another thread you claimed to never do.

    Parent

    Would you also place some blame (2.00 / 1) (#210)
    by McBain on Fri May 15, 2015 at 01:29:40 PM EST
    on a rape victim for getting drunk at a party with strangers?  That's not a smart thing to do either.

    "Assassination attempt ?? Talk about hyperbole and making conclusions without all the facts, which in another thread you claimed to never do."

    Where did I jump to a conclusion?  This is what I said...

    "We don't have all the facts of the Apperson shooting but it may well have been, as you said, an assassination attempt."

    How is that a conclusion?

    Parent

    You Did Not Just Compare... (5.00 / 1) (#211)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 15, 2015 at 03:02:33 PM EST
    ...a rape victim to an idiot who followed what he thought to be a criminal into a dark place.

    Good God, you most certainly implied assassination by stating it.

    "...but it may well have been the KGB ?"  That is most certainly implying it.

    If that is an assassination then basically every idiot in the country that shoots someone with a gun has assassinated them.  

    Get a grip and a dictionary.

    Parent

    Now, it's "implied"? I thought you were (none / 0) (#212)
    by McBain on Fri May 15, 2015 at 03:48:39 PM EST
    complaining about a "conclusion"?  Make up your mind.

    Yes, I think an assassination attempt is a possibility.  You don't agree? I also said we don't have all the facts yet.  That should have suggested to you I haven't reached a "conclusion" yet.

    You don't have be perfect on here but try to put a little more thought into your accusations.

    Parent

    There seems (none / 0) (#213)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 15, 2015 at 04:27:08 PM EST
    to be a building myth of victimhood around GZ, as in "If only the media and us "haters' would lay off him, his troubles would disappear.

    Granted the press and some commentators will hyperventilate over a frigging speeding ticket or domestic dispute., but not really much more then a famous celebrity(imagine Tom Terrific throwing a wine bottle at Gisele).

    Believe it or not it is relatively easy to avoid trouble if you set your mind to it. Don't get speeding tickets, don't throw wine bottles at your GF. I learned those lessons the hard way but  I learned them, I know plenty of people who did not and I do not consider any of them victims.

    On the surface, in this shooting, Zimmerman appears to be the victim. However I find extremely hard to believe that this was a random encounter or a planned assassination. That leads me to believe that some actions of George helped put him  in the cross-hairs again

    I really wish someone would explain the concept of keeping a "low profile" to Mr. Z and we could all live happily after.
                                                                                                                                                                             

    Parent

    "All signs" - heh (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by Yman on Tue May 12, 2015 at 06:24:06 PM EST
    IOW - That's what you believe but you have no evidence, soooo...

    But it's funny to see a GZ advocate read so much into an indictment ... even one that hasn't occurred.

    Parent

    I believe (5.00 / 5) (#82)
    by CoralGables on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:20:32 AM EST
    all of Florida would like a restraining order against Zimmerman.


    Parent
    And a news blackout not (none / 0) (#83)
    by oculus on Tue May 12, 2015 at 10:49:57 AM EST
    limited to Florida.

    Parent
    So here's the question for the police: (none / 0) (#119)
    by Uncle Chip on Tue May 12, 2015 at 04:02:09 PM EST
    How many hands does Zimmerman have???

    If Zimmerman was rolling up the passenger window with his left hand, and holding the steering wheel with his right hand, then where is the third hand that was "waving the gun"???

    Heres (5.00 / 3) (#140)
    by FlJoe on Tue May 12, 2015 at 07:35:27 PM EST
    a question for everyone. Is this some kind of weird performance art, Andy Kaufman fvkng with us from the great beyond, or is it validation of Hunters maxim "when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" ?

    Parent
    Automatic Windows (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by rcade on Wed May 13, 2015 at 12:28:29 PM EST
    Some vehicles will roll a window all the way up with one press instead of requiring the button be held down the whole time.

    Parent
    Is there evidence (none / 0) (#199)
    by Jack E Lope on Wed May 13, 2015 at 05:49:57 PM EST
    ...that G-Z was holding the steering wheel?

    Parent
    If you have any real knowledge (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue May 12, 2015 at 04:22:13 PM EST
    about science and engineering it is very very very easy to understand that some scientists will lie.

    As for GZ, there was quite a but of testimony that backed what he said.

    It's still very very hard (none / 0) (#193)
    by jondee on Wed May 13, 2015 at 03:19:04 PM EST
    for me to understand how this world-wide conspiracy involving an overwhelming majority of scientists in the world could be pulled off..

    Scientists can't "lie" and remain respected credible scientists. It's really that simple, Rush.

    Parent

    It is hard for me to understand why you (none / 0) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 13, 2015 at 03:35:44 PM EST
    claim there is a conspiracy.

    YOU are the only one claiming that, Keith.

    Parent

    Latest offering (none / 0) (#164)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed May 13, 2015 at 09:47:46 AM EST
    Hey, we here in Central FL need (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by ruffian on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:50:32 AM EST
    the folks in the UK that are buying up our depressed-priced housing stock as vacation homes. Hope the stories about idiots with guns are not scaring them away.

    Parent
    What - no local news? (none / 0) (#165)
    by Anne on Wed May 13, 2015 at 09:59:03 AM EST
    Still using the British tabloids to inform you on local US events?

    Parent
    Anne (2.00 / 1) (#166)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed May 13, 2015 at 10:40:21 AM EST
    Still using the British tabloids to inform you on local US events?

    What??? No sympathy for the poor squirrel, Bullwinkie???

    What an ignorant comment but that's what we have come to expect from you.

    The Daily Mail has a US office and this story comes from it.

    And it included this revelation from the police report on the squirrel incident just the day before Apperson shot Zimmerman:

    "I advised Sharee that I would document this incident in case anything happens in the next two weeks."

    Well we didn't have to wait long, did we???

    Sharee was right -- the dead squirrel was a "sign".

    Read it and weep --

    Parent

    ::rolling eyes:: (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Anne on Wed May 13, 2015 at 10:54:20 AM EST
    After reading that whole-lotta-nothing Daily Mail article, I now know why you have such an affinity for it as a news source.

    Good Lord.

    Parent

    Anne, to be fair (none / 0) (#175)
    by sj on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:40:46 AM EST
    ... wading through their sh!t would be great fun if it weren't for all the autorun video on their site.

    But that would be for entertainment of a sort, not for news gathering.

    Parent

    Hmm, let's see....."willful ignorance" (5.00 / 1) (#192)
    by NYShooter on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:34:32 PM EST
    I find it quite interesting that this latest  infestation swarming in from the right, the far, far, Right, brings with it..... nothing new. "Willful ignorance," a term that has been used quite often by many regular commenters here to explain the boring use of The Right's primary weapon, The new, improved, state-of-the-art, "Truth Deflector." They use the term as if they just discovered it, "eureka!!!!"

    But, here's the thing: In all the cases where this new-Right, and us, have an opposite opinion on who's right, and who's wrong, who's guilty, and  who's not, etc., most of us would, if reliable facts/evidence were presented, change our opinion as to what the correct outcome should be. And, that holds true, regardless of how odious a character that's at the center of the controversy at hand.

    That, in a nutshell, is the reason why those of us here who have functioning deductive capabilities experience simultaneous "eye-rolling" incidences whenever one of "them" pops up here for the first time after a "big news" event takes place.

    "We," like most normal people, will have an immediate opinion as to the likely circumstances surrounding said event. We, eagerly wait for irrefutable evidence that will, hopefully, be coming in to, either confirm our early opinion, or cause us to re-think that opinion in light of the new evidence.

    "They," also, will have an immediate determination of what occurred, who's guilty, and, who's not. But, then as evidence, inevitably, come rolling in, they will cling & defend their first determination regardless of any new evidence that's discovered.

    In other words, don't get involved in a debate where the two sides obey different rules. Statistics, and, common sense, tell us that such a debate is not only un-winnable, but, more to the point, completely irrational.

    For instance, consider this all-too-common occurrence: A certain elderly gentleman, let's say, from central Tennessee, pops up with a breathless, new  revelation (approximately his 11,000th new one) and, quoting a passage from the latest issue of Wingnut Central, "MMGW is a fraud," and, Man rode dinosaurs to, and from, work 6000 years ago.

    The question to be pondered is: Who's the fruitcake who should be ignored?
       

    A. The author of that initial post?

    or,

    B. The owners of the dozens of responses that, immediately & inevitably, light up the board, and keep it lit for 50 to 100 additional posts following  elderly gentleman's initial post?

    I know, it's a tough one.

    Parent

    Shooter, it seems to me that (none / 0) (#195)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 13, 2015 at 03:40:33 PM EST
    you are saying that you can't win.

    Okay fine. I understand that and appreciate it.

    BTW - At least I helped a damnyankee find out what "sides" are.

    lol.

    And don't be offended by the damnyankee name. We understand that not everyone can be born a Southerner.  

    Parent

    Hey, coming from a Southerner (5.00 / 2) (#197)
    by NYShooter on Wed May 13, 2015 at 04:22:48 PM EST
    "Damnyankee," is about the nicest compliment this NewYorker ever got.

    And, I do understand that not everyone can be born a Southerner, but, what I don't understand is why all the intra-marriages hasn't killed off the breed yet. I guess the teeth go first, then the brain, then......  

    Parent

    Glad to see that you think damnyankee is (none / 0) (#201)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed May 13, 2015 at 10:20:01 PM EST
    a compliment.

    For some damnyankees it is. Others, not so much.

    Go figure.

    Parent

    And (none / 0) (#202)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 13, 2015 at 10:51:46 PM EST
    some see a song
    And like my brother above me
    Who took a rebel stand
    He was just 18, proud and brave
    But a Yankee laid him in his grave
    classic, written by Canadians, go figure.

    Parent
    Hey, I did see some pretty interesting (none / 0) (#177)
    by Anne on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:49:09 AM EST
    headlines about all the celebrity news and scandals...way more entertaining than Question Mark Man, for sure.

    Parent
    Sometimes (none / 0) (#174)
    by sj on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:37:45 AM EST
    I just itch to troll rate the superfluous question marks. But that would just be plain bad form.

    But then, so are the superfluous question marks...

    Parent

    Hopefully the police are serious about (none / 0) (#173)
    by McBain on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:35:35 AM EST
    the investigation.  Even if they don't care about Zimmerman, there could be other lives at stake.

    Parent
    Is it illegal to shoot squirrels? (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by Anne on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:46:10 AM EST
    Or to have a gun in Florida even if one lives in a "safe" area?

    Curious why you aren't vigorously defending Apperson.  His neighbor tries to connect the dots from Apperson allegedly objecting to her feeding the squirrels to the dead one she found in her yard.

    The polite response the police gave her sounds like something they'd say if she told them she found pieces of metal signifying her yard had been used as a landing pad for an alien spaceship.

    Parent

    I didn't say lock the guy up (none / 0) (#184)
    by McBain on Wed May 13, 2015 at 12:59:38 PM EST
    I said, I hope the police are serious about the investigation.  That's how you feel, right?

    We know very little about Apperson.  There are reports  neighbors said he appeared irrational and unstable. The police should look into it.  Maybe it's his neighbors who are crazy? Maybe it's him.  We do know he fired his gun into a moving vehicle. That's not your typical, road rage, horn honking, flipping the bird thing.  

    But you know all this.  You don't like Zimmerman and don't like my opinions, so you so post silly things.    


    Parent

    If (none / 0) (#179)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:53:43 AM EST
    you are so worried about lives being at stake, you  must surely  be in favor of taking Zimmerman's guns away. Right?

    Parent
    I can't think of many people who need (none / 0) (#183)
    by McBain on Wed May 13, 2015 at 12:49:13 PM EST
    a gun for protection more than GZ.  As far as I know, he's only used his gun once and he did that legally for self defense. I've never owned a firearm in my life but if I was GZ I'd carry one with me at all times.  

    Parent
    yep (5.00 / 3) (#196)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 13, 2015 at 04:05:03 PM EST
    no telling when the next skittle wielding teenager might accost him.

    Parent
    Strong words coming from you (none / 0) (#171)
    by sj on Wed May 13, 2015 at 11:28:19 AM EST
    And pretty much sums up my impressions of GZ as an individual. Since I don't know him, I've tried to keep my opinions focused on his actions, not him. But those kinds of actions don't come out of the blue.

    And I just broke my own rule about not commenting on GZ...

    Yeah I guess so... (5.00 / 1) (#180)
    by kdog on Wed May 13, 2015 at 12:06:50 PM EST
    the fact that so many people buy into the "George did nothing wrong!" meme really gets my blood up sj. It's lunacy.  

     

    Parent

    take your anger elswhere (none / 0) (#188)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:11:25 PM EST
    if you cannot discuss the case rationally and without insults, don't bother posting on this topic.

    Parent
    Sorry... (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:18:23 PM EST
    about the anger/insults, but I plead not guilty of irrationality.    

    Parent
    that comment was deleted (none / 0) (#187)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:10:34 PM EST
    Do not rehash the TM case here. Or use name calling in your comments. They will be deleted when I have time to review this thread. This thread is about the Apperson shooting.

    Parent
    Comments rehashing the (none / 0) (#191)
    by Jeralyn on Wed May 13, 2015 at 01:29:21 PM EST
    TM trial and case have been deleted.
    Insults to Zimmerman or other commenters will be deleted.

    This thread is about the Apperson shooting. We're done with the TM case.

    I apologize (none / 0) (#198)
    by FlJoe on Wed May 13, 2015 at 04:38:36 PM EST
    for my contribution to the rehashing, frankly I find it strangely addicting, I will refrain from now on.

    That being said I do think that it is important to look at the past behavior of both Apperson and Zimmerman to better understand the current case. Of course we should not waste bandwidth discussing Zimmerman's well known past, it just raises everybody's hackles anyway.

     In my opinion there seems to be something very personal about this shooting,  it stands  to reason that we need to understand the personalities involved to get the full picture of what exactly happened

    Parent

    official statements (none / 0) (#200)
    by Uncle Chip on Wed May 13, 2015 at 09:14:43 PM EST
    Here's clickorlando:

    George Zimmerman gave Lake Mary police investigators an official statement today ...

    NeJame said he's not sure that Apperson will make a statement to police.

    That right there is quite telling --

    WESH (none / 0) (#207)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu May 14, 2015 at 11:26:55 PM EST
    WESH

    Police said they are going to work on tracking the trajectory of the bullet to see if Zimmerman's window was down at the time of the shooting. [Either way, up or down, it can't be good for Apperson]

    He was on his way to a doctor's appointment at the time of the shooting. [I'm sure the police checked that out]

    "This guy was sort of following him and flashing lights and such. (Zimmerman) decided to get away from him, decided to make a U-turn. And this guy made a U-turn right behind him and then pulled up alongside him and shot at him," West said. [That U-turn alone is problematic for Apperson and for the police who are dragging their feet]

    WESH 2 legal analyst Richard Hornsby believes law enforcement has been hesitant to file charges and make an arrest simply because Zimmerman is involved in the incident.

    Police said they are classifying the incident as an aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, but until they receive a sworn statement from Apperson, no arrests are expected. [So then all he has to do is refuse to make a sworn statement and he avoids arrest -- you're kidding]

    Apperson has been arrested and convicted at least four times, according to police records.

    Winter Springs police said they have been called to Apperson's home at least 15 times since July 2012.

    Apperson arrested (none / 0) (#214)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 15, 2015 at 06:32:44 PM EST
    Man accused of firing shot at George Zimmerman arrested

    Matthew Apperson charged with aggravated assault with a firearm

    The man accused of firing a gunshot into George Zimmerman's car has been arrested, according the Lake Mary Police Department.

    Matthew Apperson turned himself in to police on Friday and was charged with aggravated assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated battery with a deadly weapon and firing a deadly missile into an occupied conveyance, police said.

    Thank goodness (5.00 / 2) (#215)
    by Yman on Fri May 15, 2015 at 06:47:30 PM EST
    Now that he's been charged, I am looking forward to the deluge of posts from McBain exhibiting his "pro-defense bias" by defending Apperson.

    Parent
    Watch out for those deadly missiles (none / 0) (#216)
    by McBain on Fri May 15, 2015 at 07:59:38 PM EST
    Anyone know what kind of sentence Apperson would be looking at if found guilty?  What type of plea is usually offered?

    ABC news says Apperson was arrested for allegedly shooting at George Zimmerman "without provocation". Does that mean the police determined GZ didn't have a gun with him or had one but wasn't a threat?  I'm curious how they would know that.  

    Parent

    Maybe they had.... (none / 0) (#234)
    by unitron on Sun May 17, 2015 at 05:26:10 AM EST
    ...an impartial witness that saw Zimmerman make a U-turn and Apperson make one right behind him before pulling up on Zimmerman's passenger side and firing.

    If Florida's Justifiable Use of Force law hasn't changed in the last year or so I'm pretty sure there's nothing in there that lets you chase after someone who's moving away from you to "defend yourself".

    Parent

    I guess it only works if (none / 0) (#236)
    by Anne on Sun May 17, 2015 at 09:15:07 AM EST
    you chase after someone until you need to defend yourself, huh?

    Parent
    Apperson Arrest Report (none / 0) (#217)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri May 15, 2015 at 11:16:44 PM EST
    Apperson Arrest Report

    Redacted text in the report reads:

    "During the investigation, I learned that Apperson has exhibited unusual behaviors in which he had recently been admitted to a mental institution.

    It appears that Apperson has a fixation on Zimmerman and has displayed some signs of paranoia, anxiety, and bipolar disorder."

    And no one thought to take away his guns???

    Parent

    Amen (5.00 / 1) (#218)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 16, 2015 at 06:29:08 AM EST
    to that
    And no one thought to take away his guns???

     Matter of fact I will see your ??? and raise you !!!!

    Parent
    After several days of only periods and (5.00 / 1) (#222)
    by Anne on Sat May 16, 2015 at 07:34:34 AM EST
    commas, the triple question marks and exclamation points have returned, so I guess the new shipment finally came in...

    Apparently, in Florida, the preferred time to confiscate guns is from the owner's cold, dead hands, you know, after there is no danger of anyone actually being shot.  Before that, we have to preserve the presumption that the gun owner is of sound mind, I guess.

    Time and again, the truth we see in action every day is that guns don't make people smarter, which means they don't make the people who own them, or those they point them at, safer.

    And spare me, please, the if-so-and-so-hadn't-had-a-gun-he'd-be-dead stories.  Yes, I know about them, and yes, I'm sure they do happen, but do I really have to keep reading about toddlers killing mommy or daddy or baby brother, or the idiots who think guns and drunk is a good combination, or the best way to settle an argument is at the point of a gun?

    And yes, I know it's an inalienable right, but I don't have to like it.  Whatever beef these two "men" with poor emotional control had with each other, guns haven't helped resolve; poor aim is the only thing that kept this from being one more argument or issue that resulted in someone being dead.

    Parent

    On what grounds? (none / 0) (#219)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 06:47:56 AM EST
    Sorry.  I meant - "On what grounds???"

    As we all know, Florida law is very open to gun ownership/carrying.  Is there some provision of FL law that would have authorized them to take his guns?

    Parent

    I find (none / 0) (#226)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 16, 2015 at 09:19:39 AM EST
    this very interesting from the arrest report:
    At that time, Zimmerman's driver side window was down slightly. While Zimmerman was angled in the median to make the u-turn, the driver of an Infiniti got behind him and yelled, "You remember me you fat mother fucker?" Zimmerman looked back and did not recognize him. The driver then said, "You owe me your life. The only reason I didn't press charges on you is because I wanted to kill you myself." Zimmerman laughed at him and called him a clown. Before Zimmerman rolled up his window, the driver told him to pull over and they could handle it man to man.
    , quite an impressive diatribe from Apperson, also quite impressive word for word recollection by Zimmerman. Even more impressive is Zimmerman's apparent super-human hearing ability.

    Parent
    If Apperson was right behind him.... (none / 0) (#232)
    by unitron on Sun May 17, 2015 at 05:14:31 AM EST
    ...as both were stopped waiting to make the U turn and hollering out his driver side window and Zimmerman's window wasn't all the way up, then it's hardly inconceivable that Zimmerman could here what Apperson was yelling at him.

    Parent
    Make that.... (none / 0) (#233)
    by unitron on Sun May 17, 2015 at 05:16:18 AM EST
    ..."hear" what Apperson was yelling.

    Apparently the Preview button has turned into a Post button.

    Parent

    With (none / 0) (#235)
    by FlJoe on Sun May 17, 2015 at 06:32:18 AM EST
    the window mostly closed, traffic noise and presumably a/c running I see it as nearly impossible.

    Parent
    Sorry again (none / 0) (#220)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 06:48:28 AM EST
    "... authorized them to take his guns???!!!"

    the same people (none / 0) (#221)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat May 16, 2015 at 07:25:38 AM EST
    the same people who are likely to testify at his trial that at the time of the shooting he was OUT TO LUNCH.

    Parent
    Not an answer (none / 0) (#223)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 07:49:15 AM EST
    Is there some provision of FL law that would have authorized them to take his guns???

    Hint - you can't just take away someone's gun in FL simply because they go to a mental health facility.  Although the imaginary testimony would likely be helpful, once you find the imaginary law.

    Parent

    imaginary (none / 0) (#224)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat May 16, 2015 at 08:34:33 AM EST
    Check those imaginary mental hospital discharge papers that he, his wife and/or his momma had to sign to get him out of there and released to them.

    Those imaginary papers usually always have a prohibition on having any guns in his possession for some period of time.

    Unless you think those discharge papers were imaginary [question mark, question mark, question mark].

    Parent

    Can't check imaginary discharge papers (none / 0) (#225)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 08:48:22 AM EST
    Those imaginary papers usually always have a prohibition on having any guns in his possession for some period of time.

    Do they???  Is it "usually" or "always"???  Or "usually always"???

    Unless you think those discharge papers were imaginary [question mark, question mark, question mark].

    Why, yes ... yes, I do.  Otherwise, you would provide a link to those imaginary discharge papers that you imagine "usually always" (heh) have a prohibition against having guns in possession for "some period" of time.

    But no link, no evidence, no facts... just more specious claims and imaginary evidence

    As usual.

    Parent

    discharge papers (1.00 / 1) (#227)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat May 16, 2015 at 01:06:11 PM EST
    But no link, no evidence, no facts

    Check your discharge papers from your last visit.

    Parent

    Please (none / 0) (#228)
    by FlJoe on Sat May 16, 2015 at 01:39:47 PM EST
    post your discharge papers when and if
    they let you out.

    Parent
    Ouch, ouch!!! (none / 0) (#229)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 02:33:48 PM EST
    Feel the buurrrrrnnnnn ,,,

    (Or insert other appropriate 4th grade response here ... no offense to all the 4th graders who would no doubt feel that attempt at an insult was too juvenile for them).

    I'll have to defer to your expertise in the area of "discharge papers", Chip ... even those that you're only imagining.

    Heh, heh ...

    Parent

    Judge Nelson again? (none / 0) (#230)
    by McBain on Sat May 16, 2015 at 03:34:37 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/n5t3va9

    Looks like Apperson will get the same judge GZ got for his criminal trial and unsuccessful civil trial attempt.  Could be a break for Apperson.

    "Could be" (none / 0) (#231)
    by Yman on Sat May 16, 2015 at 06:48:48 PM EST
    Why "could" it be a break for Apperson?

    Parent
    lawyers x 3 + (none / 0) (#237)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun May 17, 2015 at 09:42:41 AM EST
    Well that is most interesting -- they've all lawyered up.

    The wife has her lawyer, the momma has her lawyer, and the shooter/husband/son has his lawyers.

    What could that all mean?

    Did any of them try to mislead police investigators?

    Are they anticipating blowback on themselves from this?

    Parent

    It could mean that they can't all (5.00 / 1) (#240)
    by Anne on Sun May 17, 2015 at 02:17:58 PM EST
    be represented by the same attorney due to possible conflicts - this happens all the time, and no nefarious inferences need to be drawn from it.  And by "conflicts," I mean that the interests of one party may conflict with the interests of another, and an attorney can't represent both if he or she is advising one in a way that might be detrimental to the other party he or she would be representing.

    While conflicts can be waived by a potential client, in some cases, attorneys aren't always willing to proceed on that basis.  The "it's okay - we're all family" rationale for why the conflicts aren't material doesn't always hold up over time, and it's better to just separate the representation up front than have problems down the road.

    I still don't understand why you aren't vigorously defending Apperson, given his innocent-until-proved-guilty status.  Or have you decided to chuck that principal because it's Zimmerman on the other side of this?


    Parent

    Inquiring minds want to speculate (none / 0) (#238)
    by Yman on Sun May 17, 2015 at 11:53:03 AM EST
    Can we make accusations in the form of a question???

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#239)
    by Uncle Chip on Sun May 17, 2015 at 01:45:54 PM EST
    Not yet.

    Those are being saved for the civil case.

    Parent

    SITE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#242)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu May 21, 2015 at 07:13:51 PM EST
    competitiveness in race baiting.

    At least they seem to have been reading the comments.