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Democrats Debate: Live-Blogging the Drexel U. Debate

Big Tent Democrat and I will be live-blogging tonight's Democrats Debate at Drexel University.

The New York Times says all eyes will be on Obama.

Hillary has already fired the first salvo.

I just hope some sparks fly.

Updates below, mostly in the comments.

Update [2007-10-30 21:8:46 by Big Tent Democrat]: Brian Williams and Tim Russert. I expect the worst. And Williams starts asking Obama when has Clinton sounded like a Republican. Obama starts with a stump answer. Then gives a pretty weak attack.

Clinton effectively points out that the Republicans are attacking her and ticks off her issues of standing against Republicans.

Russert asks Edwards a similar question, focusing on Iran. Edwards calls it a question of trust. Edwards then zags to ending the Iraq War and accuses Clinton of voting for "the first step" to giving Bush te green light for war with Iran. Then he criticizes her on Social Security. Not sure what his point was.

Clinton basically repeats her answer, talks about her 35 year record.

Edwards attack was a bit more effective than Obama's. neither was particularly effective.

My view is that each answer should focus an attack on one issue. The laundry list attack will not work.

Update [2007-10-30 21:13:25 by Big Tent Democrat]: Chris Dodd makes the key point on what was wrong with Kyl-Lieberma, in short, you can not trust Bush. HE says that we learned, from Iraq, that we can not trust Bush.

Update [2007-10-30 21:28:38 by Big Tent Democrat]: Dodd on Russert's silly pledge question, ignores it and answers in a broader way. Results and experience matters. Weak answer frankly.

Update [2007-10-30 21:33:46 by Big Tent Democrat]: Williams brings up an endorser, Gen. Claudia Williams, who apparently supports the war, and ask if Clinton opposes the war. Clinton says absolutely she opposes the war and wants to end it. Then strongly criticizes Bush conduct on Iraq. Creditable answer.

Update (TL): First break, 9:40. Hillary is confident and not rattled. Edwards is spunky and good. Obama is not making an impression.

Update (TL): 10:07pm Obama is floundering. My favorite part so far was Biden's tirade against Giuliani, calling him the most unqualified person ever to be President. I don't like Biden, but I loved that answer. Look for a video clip of it later.

Hillary is dominating. Edwards started off strong but moved off course. Richardson demonstrated some team spirit by defending Hillary's character. Dodd isn't scoring tonight for some reason.

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  • Display: Sort:
    Hillary: We need Republican support (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:18:10 PM EST
    in the Congress. BZZT.

    Not a good line (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:43 PM EST
    Edwards (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:51:17 PM EST
    They want to run against Hillary.

    This is a poor line of attack and really works very badly.

    Frankly, Edwards has gone way too far tonight.

    Specific attacks on specific issues, fine, the rest of it is counterproductive.

    My own view, this is becoming a real debate win for Hillary. Obama can not attack and Edwards attacks too much and in a scattershot fashion.

    They give Hillary the chance to embrace the Clinton Adminstration of the 90s.

    And Edwards is going to attack Bill Clinton?

    Very poor judgment there.

    Obama disingenous on the death penalty (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:54:56 PM EST
    He touts his role in ending the death penalty in Illiniois but doesn't mention he supports the death penalty.

    While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes--mass murder, the rape and murder of a child--so heinous that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment. On the other hand, the way capital cases were tried in Illinois at the time was so rife with error, questionable police tactics, racial bias, and shoddy lawyering, that 13 death row inmates had been exonerated
    Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p. 58 Oct 1, 2006

    Disingenous.

    Great Thread ! (1.00 / 0) (#80)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:16:05 PM EST
    It was super dynamic.

    I'm here (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:01:24 PM EST
    I'll put thoughts I think more important in the body and asides in comments.

    Me too (none / 0) (#2)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:07:07 PM EST
    Obama didn't come out swinging at Hillary. Edwards doing a better job of it. At least he's not afraid to take on the question.

    My take exactly (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:09:28 PM EST
    Russet asks on Kyl-Lieberman (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:11:56 PM EST
    Clinton responds that she was the first to argue against Bush's rush to war.

    She calls Edwards/Obama position a false choice.

    Calls for vigorous diplomacy, which, she posits, include ecoomic sanctions. Throws Dick Durbin in Obama's face, he voted for Kyl Lieberman too.

    IMO, Hillary is wrong here, precisely BECAUSE George Bush is the President.

    Strangely she does ot mention Webb Amendment.

    Hillary's answer on Iran (none / 0) (#5)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:14:50 PM EST
    She says she is against a rush to war. She was the first to say Bush had no authority to take us to war in Iran. But "we can't do nothing." She prefers vigorous diplomacy and says economic sanctions are a part of it.  "We have to prevent everything we can to prevent" Bush and Republicans from going to war on their own. Sanctions and diplomacy are the way to go.


    Hillary expresses her wrong opinions (none / 0) (#6)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:15:47 PM EST
    very effectively. Obama is a very poor debater. Dodd and Biden are ok. Edwards forgettable.

    She is right on the letter of the law (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:14 PM EST
    Frankly, I think Dodd made the right point on Kyl Lieberman.

    You can't trust Bush.

    These are not normal times.

    Parent

    Edwards echoes Dodd (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:20:21 PM EST
    You give this President an inch, he'll take a mile.

    Very effective answer from Edwards.

    Parent

    If only he had mentioned not funding (none / 0) (#14)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:21:03 PM EST
    On Iran (none / 0) (#18)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:23:31 PM EST
    Not the issue I think.

    Kucinich says that all options ARE NOT on the table.

    Well, that is silly, imo.

    Parent

    Do you not still think (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:25:42 PM EST
    that the way to stay out of Iran is by getting out of Iraq? Easy connection for one of them to make.

    Obama continues to give a halting and supercilious performance.

    Parent

    Of course (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:27:13 PM EST
    But the discussion was of Kyl Lieberman.

    No one connects the Iraq Debacle and Iran.

    I hold to my position.

    Parent

    Given the limited relevance (none / 0) (#24)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:28:31 PM EST
    of some of these responses, it would seem not much of a leap.

    Parent
    Sure (none / 0) (#26)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:29:53 PM EST
    But I do not expect more from pols than they can give.

    Parent
    Biden (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:17:32 PM EST
    echoes Dodd, but misrepresents some facts about Kyl Lieberman. By declaring the Iran Revolutionary Guard a terrorist organization the President was NOT empowered to attack Iran.

    That is dangerous talk from Biden. ESPECIALLY as he declares in the same breath the President could have done it all without Congressional approval. But he can not attack Iran, with or without Kyl Lieberman.

    Carrots and Sticks (none / 0) (#9)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:19:05 PM EST
    Obama is not very presidential or charismatic in my opinion.

    Russert Asks Obama what it would take to attack Iran. Says we shouldn't be talking about it.  We should reach out aggressively to our allies but also talk to our enemies. We should talk to Iran about the carrot we can provide. We haven't made those serious attempts.  There may come a point where we have to consider other options, but we shouldn't talk about that now.

    Hillary responds we have to use the carrot and the stick.

    Disagree about Edwards (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:21:02 PM EST
    I think he's doing well.  

    Edwards says the resolution gave Bush and Cheney just what they wanted. The way to stand up to Bush is to say no. Give him an inch and he'll take a mile. We have to make it clear we won't let the neocons take us to war in Iran.

    That answer was very good (none / 0) (#16)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:22:37 PM EST
    I was referring to the first answer.

    The second response was totally focused on Iran and was extremely effective.

    Parent

    Richardson (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:21:53 PM EST
    Unconditional talks.

    Richardson's redline, "not permit Iran to USE nuclear weapons."

    I assume he misspoke. Otherwise I am not sure if he is saying he will not see ACQUIRNG nukes as the redline.

    I noticed that too (none / 0) (#17)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:22:41 PM EST
    Kucinich calls for impeachment (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:24:40 PM EST
    and the audience claps.

    Pledge that Iran will not develop (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:25:07 PM EST
    a nuke.

    Stupid question.

    What is Russert saying?

    So Bill Richardson (none / 0) (#25)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:29:12 PM EST
    can make another disingenuous pledge.

    Parent
    Hillary gets one on Russert (none / 0) (#22)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:25:46 PM EST
    Russert's grimace was priceless. Good one by Hillary.

    Biden is the safe haven tonight (none / 0) (#27)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:30:48 PM EST
    Hillary and Obama and Dodd don't want to agree with each other so they are using Biden as the person they agree with. Shows how little a threat they perceive him to be.

    Richardson (none / 0) (#28)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:30:53 PM EST
    What can I say? Not impressed.

    Kucinich makes a great point on the Media. Good for him.

    Then segues to nuclear power (none / 0) (#29)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:31:47 PM EST
    bleh.

    Parent
    Hillary on Iraq (none / 0) (#30)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:33:42 PM EST
    Do you oppose the war in Iraq? "Absolutely." Adds she supports the troops. She will begin to bring the troops home as soon as she is President.

    Hillary is all about bashing Bush tonight, not the other Dems. Smart.

    Very smart (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:35:08 PM EST
    Obama is just inept on the attack.

    I am gaining insight on why he does not do it. I have been blaming Axelrod. I think the problem is Obama.

    He simply is not much when it comes to critiquing.

    This is a problem.

    Parent

    His debate style is terrible (none / 0) (#33)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:37:02 PM EST
    easily tied with Kucinich for worst on the stage.

    Parent
    finally i agree with something you have said (none / 0) (#103)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 08:50:19 AM EST
    Edwards (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:36:34 PM EST
    is trying to make some false distinction on combat missions.

    Frakl,y it seems to me he is not being truthful.

    I think Edwards goes too far (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:37:28 PM EST
    He really is not being truthful.

    Parent
    I think Clinton's response (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:38:32 PM EST
    is effective.

    Parent
    But Edwards is doing the job (none / 0) (#36)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:38:34 PM EST
    everyone is waiting for Obama to do.

    Hillary invents a strawman "we cannot engage al qaeda without combat troops."

    Parent

    maybe not a stawman (none / 0) (#38)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:39:35 PM EST
    The "no combat troops" mantra is perhaps an unreasonable standard.

    Parent
    The straw (none / 0) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:42:09 PM EST
    is necessary in that the pols have to be for "fighting Al Qaida."

    But believe me, once they start to come out, they will all come out.

    That is the reality. Bush knows it. clinton knows it. Edwards knows it.

    This is the silly no residual troops BS, repackaged.


    Parent

    Edwards just got a good one in on Hillary (none / 0) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:40:22 PM EST
    He says if you want a candidate who will keep combat troops in Iraq and no timetable for withdrawal, it's Hillary.

    Edwards is doing really well tonight.

    Hillary rebuts -- we'll bring out combat troops but we have to keep some special operations troops there to fight al qaeda.

    She stands for bringing troops home but she knows it will take time and she will do it responsibly.

    Effective rebuttal.

    Well (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:43:00 PM EST
    I doid not like it because it is an easily rebutted falsehood.

    There is no difference between Hillary and Edwards.

    Parent

    Did I mishear Williams (none / 0) (#42)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:43:52 PM EST
    misidentify Drexel as Princeton?

    Williams does work for Hillary (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:44:26 PM EST
    brings a GOP attack on Hillary to the table.

    Manna from heaven for her.

    Hillary is very good at this (none / 0) (#44)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:45:00 PM EST


    Rudy enters (none / 0) (#45)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:45:08 PM EST
    via a question from Brian Williams. He quotes Rudy saying she doesn't have the experience.

    Republicans constant obsession with her means they think she is communicating effectively. Again attacks Bush and Cheney.

    Those must have been her instructions from her advisors...don't fall for attacking the other candidates, stick to attacking Bush.

    Russert asks about (none / 0) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:45:50 PM EST
    National Archives on Clinton Administration.

    Hillary says do what you will.

    Obama attacks on this? (none / 0) (#47)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:46:55 PM EST
    Sheesh.

    Parent
    He finally (none / 0) (#49)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:47:51 PM EST
    gets a bit of a spine, but what a safe topic to do it on.

    Parent
    We don't want another 8 years of bickering! (none / 0) (#51)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:48:16 PM EST
    pfft

    Parent
    Yes Barack, who's raising money for you? (none / 0) (#48)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:47:38 PM EST


    If I were prepping Obama (none / 0) (#50)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:48:15 PM EST
    I would give him minispeech attacks.

    And tell him to use them and ignore the questions.

    Obama "bring people together?"

    Oy vey.

    Edwards. (none / 0) (#52)
    by MsAnnaNOLA on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:49:08 PM EST
    I heart Edwards. He is taking no money from Pacs and special interests.

    Edwards understands the plight of all people in the country not just the rich, not just the poor. He is standing up for the constitution and not the special interests.

    Yeah go Edwards.

    Edwards just lost me on (none / 0) (#53)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:50:29 PM EST
    saying Hillary stands for the status quo. He's not listening to her. All she's done is attack Bush and say we need change.  He could have done better on that one.

    Yep (none / 0) (#57)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:51:51 PM EST
    See what I just wrote.

    Parent
    Hillary's talking points (none / 0) (#55)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:51:18 PM EST
    themes are emerging:

    1. attack Bush, not other candidates
    2. repeat often her specific plans on various issues


    And when Edwards opens the door (none / 0) (#58)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:52:52 PM EST
    embrace the Clinton Adminstration.

    Hillary is winning hands down over the other top 2.

    Turning into a rout frankly.

    Parent

    Richardson (none / 0) (#60)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:54:09 PM EST
    takes an opportunity. Defends Hillary.

    Smartest thing he has done in the entire campaign.

    Edwards has gone too far. Way too far.

    Parent

    Obama flubs the experience question (none / 0) (#56)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:51:40 PM EST
    "the experience I have is primarily legislative." That's going in an attack ad.

    Hillary nods at Richardson (none / 0) (#59)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:53:54 PM EST


    Good move by Richardson (none / 0) (#61)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:54:36 PM EST
    If Richardson wants to be VP (none / 0) (#95)
    by magster on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 10:41:33 PM EST
    he said to Matthews (in post debate spin) that the government needs to be more forthcoming about Roswell in response to question about Kucinich (!).  Matthews won't let it drop.  Richardson is not a good politician.

    Parent
    True, but (none / 0) (#96)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 12:05:35 AM EST
    that was the warmest I've ever seen Richardson. If only he let that side of his personality out in the debates. And he explained what he meant -- Matthews just wanted to hear something else.

    What he said was he didn't believe in UFO's but it would be better if the feds released all the Roswell, NM documents so it could be put to rest once and for all. Roswell is a big tourist attraction in his state and he didn't want to put the kabosh on it. Matthews was just p*imping for a big story line and he didn't get it.

    Parent

    Twisting and conniving (none / 0) (#104)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 08:54:08 AM EST
    He was blatantly trying to twist words there.  richardson repeated very clearly it was about release of the files and matthews was trying to twist it so that he could have "the story" of the night so he could milk it for several months.  Horribly unprofessional.

    Parent
    Richardson goes to bat for Hillary (none / 0) (#63)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:55:40 PM EST
    He trusts her. Just disagrees on issues.  Wants to run a positive campaign.

    Dodd tries to be John Kerry. . . (none / 0) (#64)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:56:24 PM EST


    Awful (none / 0) (#67)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:58:11 PM EST
    Just awful.

    Parent
    Dodd makes a big mistake (none / 0) (#65)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:56:33 PM EST
    Electability is a word NO POL should EVER talk about.

    Awful.

    Dodd doing poorly tonight.

    Dodd Shoots an Arrow at Edwards (none / 0) (#66)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 08:56:45 PM EST
    for taking money from trial lawyers.

    It's true, which is why Edwards should drop harping on Hillary and special interest money.

    They all do it.

    Biden Rocks on Giuliani (none / 0) (#68)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:01:28 PM EST
    the most unqualified man to be president. I don't like Biden but I love this answer.

    He's not running against Hillary, he's running to be leader of the free world.

    Rudy truly is not qualified.

    Link to Biden Video. (none / 0) (#101)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 07:36:48 AM EST
    The Biden Campaign has put the video on Youtube

    Parent
    Biden: (none / 0) (#69)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:01:30 PM EST
    "I'm not running against Hillary Clinton."  But makes a very effective attack against Rudy.

    Most interesting debate (none / 0) (#70)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:02:00 PM EST
    In my view, this debate exposes the weaknesses of the Hillary challengers, including Dodd.

    No political imagination.

    I was especially disappointed with Dodd, who has ignored utterly the reason why he has gaied attention and is talking like another conventional Prez candidate.

    It is his worst performance of the campaign.

    I can not tell you how disappointing his performace is for me.

    Clinton/Dodd (1.00 / 0) (#73)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:04:01 PM EST
    Would be good.

    Parent
    Yes but (none / 0) (#76)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:06:41 PM EST
    I think she will try to balance the ticket with a westerner. And that it won't be a Senator.

    Parent
    I agree (none / 0) (#71)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:03:39 PM EST
    and Hillary is running away with this. Running on the 90s works for her.

    Parent
    Dodd isn't doing that bad (none / 0) (#72)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:03:52 PM EST
    Maybe because I haven't focused on him but he seems about how he always does to me.

    I expect him to get better if we ever get to torture and Mukasey.

    I think Obama is doing the worst. He's entirely forgettable.

    Yea Hillary on Social Security (none / 0) (#74)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:05:30 PM EST
    There is no crisis and she's not falling into that trap. Great response.  What we all bloggers who have been covering this for 2 years want to hear.

    Josh Marshall is smiling. (none / 0) (#75)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:06:25 PM EST
    Checking out (none / 0) (#77)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:06:46 PM EST
    Enjoy folks.

    Just in time for Obama to say (none / 0) (#78)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:08:04 PM EST
    "I am not afraid. . .of giving Republicans talking points."

    Parent
    No, please come back (none / 0) (#83)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:17:18 PM EST
    you are this thread.

    Parent
    Staying! (none / 0) (#84)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:18:39 PM EST
    But BTD isn't.

    Parent
    And Garden (none / 0) (#79)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:12:03 PM EST
    Hope you stick around. Thanks for joining in this thread.

    I'll try (none / 0) (#82)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:17:02 PM EST
    Dodd picks up as BTD checks out.

    Parent
    New rules for next segment (none / 0) (#81)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:16:22 PM EST
    30 second limit. Topic is going to be oil. It goes to Dodd. Not my strong suit.

    Obama: (none / 0) (#85)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:19:43 PM EST
    Proud of hectoring Detroit automakers. Is this the only talking point he can remember?

    Boring Segment (none / 0) (#87)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:35:19 PM EST
    I faded on the energy and tax parts.  I did notice that Edwards refused to answer the question on Katrina which was an interesting one, should federal funds be unlimited for areas that are disaster prone, should people have to move rather than be allowed to rebuild.

    Some lightning round (none / 0) (#89)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:36:33 PM EST
    Hillary got the best of Russert on the Rangel tax question.

    Parent
    I'm glad (none / 0) (#90)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:39:00 PM EST
    it will be over before Cane starts. They are losing me quick.

    Parent
    a question on science and math? (none / 0) (#88)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:36:32 PM EST
    Come on. Let's get to torture and Mukasey.

    This debate (none / 0) (#91)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:52:41 PM EST
    should have been 90 minutes instead of two hours.

    I'm done live-blogging.  Thanks for reading and the comments continue for those who want who join in.

    Great Job (1.00 / 0) (#92)
    by squeaky on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 09:59:29 PM EST
    Thanks for all the live blogging.

    Parent
    Decriminalizing Marijuana, Hillary getting nailed (none / 0) (#93)
    by Aaron on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 10:24:26 PM EST
    I hate to agree with Armando, my sometime nemesis on this site, but the more I see Chris Dodd the more I like him. I think Obama should offer him the vice presidents seat.  :-)

    Decriminalization Marijuana seems like a minor issue, but I'm glad that the moderators asked the question, and I liked the way they asked it as well.  Hard to believe that any presidential candidate for the Democrats supports putting people in prison for marijuana charges, any marijuana charges, including trafficking of 100,000,000 tons.  America is in more desperate need of a good buzz that than any country I know.

    Hillary got pinned down pretty good on a couple of questions, like the tax question, where she has said one thing publicly while saying something else to people on the campaign trail. Also the money she's taking from absolutely everyone, every slimebag special-interest lobbyists, defense contractor, big oil, you name it she's taking their money. And that whole nonbinding resolution Iran farce which she proposed, was nothing more blatant political pandering, just as her health care proposal was.  Hillary obviously believes that you can't get elected on integrity in this country anymore, that's why I can't get on board with her.

    What I'm afraid of is that Hillary will become the president, and the Republicans will stay in control of this country through their minority in the Senate and House.  They'll accomplish this by all the Republican money that's going into Hillary Clinton's coffers.  I don't really believe she can be bought, but I think that she is compromised by all the time she's spent in Washington, and has come to believe, perhaps unconsciously, that this country is owned and operated by special interests and corporate money.  I don't know if she respects the People's sovereignty any longer.

    My man Obama was of course the star of the debate :-), he makes them all look like they're moving in slow motion. He's not as erudite in these debates as when he speaks more extemporaneously, directly to the people.

    Obama photos St. Louis rally

    Obama was the last of the 8 candidates (none / 0) (#98)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 12:14:20 AM EST
    to agree to ending the federal raids on medical marijuana users.

    He also has proposed expanding the war against drugs in New Orleans.

    Parent

    Obama bashing picture (none / 0) (#94)
    by Aaron on Tue Oct 30, 2007 at 10:33:36 PM EST
    Jeralyn you just can't resist bashing the Obama, like that picture you've posted, which is obviously intended to be unflattering.  I'm giving you permission to use any of the photographs I've taken and have posted on my site anytime you like, so you can't say you can't find a more reasonable and fair likeness of my candidate.

    You Hillary supporters must really be scared of Obama, well don't worry, the mainstream corporate controlled media is largely on your side, I just hope you're comfortable in that company.

    Shame on you, I expect better from a defense attorney.

    what does (none / 0) (#97)
    by Jeralyn on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 12:09:01 AM EST
    being a defense attorney have to do with graphic art? I found that picture on google and went with it. It symbolized (to me) the anticipation that Obama was going to try to get the better of Hillary.

    You're an Obama fan and I'm not. That's why you have your blog and I have mine.

    Nor have I endorsed Hillary. I've said all along that Hillary and Edwards are my favorite candidates but I'll get behind whoever is the Democratic nominee (except perhaps Biden.)

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    I guess what (none / 0) (#99)
    by AscotMan on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 03:56:31 AM EST
    he is trying to say is, "why is that after every debate, Obama is roundly trounced here than anywhere else?" No one says you have to be a fan of his, but what is dis-heartening to see is the once covert but now thoroughly blatant smearing campaign against him.

    He has been called everything from an empty suit to - this is my fav - having no there there. He is bashed everytime he talks about "talking to the other side", but Hillary is given a pass to run all day long as a moderate.

    Methinks something doth stink here. How come someone who is quite rightly percieved as a "hawkish democrat" is romping to the nomination with the support of the so-called left?

    Yes, Hillary will win the nomination and we will all get behind her but in the meantime can we please have some honesty and objectivity?

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    Ok honestly and objectively (none / 0) (#100)
    by Molly Bloom on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 07:16:03 AM EST
    Obama is the second coming of Adlai Stevenson. Unfortunately the number of thinking people in the country is about the same as it was in the 1950's, so he just doesn't have enough voters to win.  

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    I agree that there is a slant against obama here (none / 0) (#106)
    by Jlvngstn on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 09:04:14 AM EST
    But i completely agree with Jeralyn and BTD that Obama is a horrible debater and is bloody awful thinking on his feet.  He is heads and tails abover every other candidate reading a prepared speech, but struggling to answer softball questions in easy debates is quite awful.  I am desperately waiting for Obama to take command of a topic or two and clearly demonstrate his leadership.  If I were forced to judge right now, I would have to say that the Audacity of Hope was only about selling books I am afraid.

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    The bias here against Obama (none / 0) (#107)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 09:13:27 AM EST
     is extreme - but that largely because he is competing against the annointed fair haired child of the blog.

      That said, Obama's problem is that he is reinforcing the complaint that "there is no there there." Cooperation is not a core principle; it is a means to a desired end. He needs to demonstrate that he stands for something beyond listening to and respecting everyone. It's fine (and true) to say that we can't make progress if we continue with this intolerant, narrow-minded partisanship but he needs to articulate much better what concrete goals he intends to achieve by the tactic of being inclusive and open-minded.

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    Nicely said Decon (none / 0) (#108)
    by Jlvngstn on Thu Nov 01, 2007 at 09:58:28 AM EST
    Wish i could have articulated the way i feel as well as you just did.

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    MSNBC Democratic Presidential Debate (none / 0) (#102)
    by PollM on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 07:55:10 AM EST
    With Clinton holding a huge lead among Democrats in national opinion polls ahead of the November 2008 election, rivals Barack Obama, John Edwards, Chris Dodd, Bill Richardson and Joseph Biden all took turns aiming shots at the New York senator in hopes of bringing her back to the pack.

    Who do you think won the Philadelphia NBC - MSNBC News Democratic Presidential Debate?
    ----> http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=842
    .

    Surprisingly, (none / 0) (#105)
    by Deconstructionist on Wed Oct 31, 2007 at 09:02:33 AM EST
      We have the unexpected phenomenon of most people thinking the candidate they supported prior to the debate did best.

      It also seems that a huge proportion of the audience for these things are people looking to: (a) see how their horse is running and (b) cherry pick to spin their horse as the winner, rather than trying to choose a horse.

      In political terms, I think all this favors clinton because she's the frontrunner and if the debates are neither changing any minds or swaying undecideds the mere lapse of time favors her.