home

The GOP Talking Points on Libby Debunked, By WaPo No Less

David Broder would have done himself a favor if he had read the Washington Post reporter who actually covered the Scooter Libby trial, Carol Leonnig before he penned his embarrassing regurgitation of GOP Talking Points. Published the same day Broder wrote his nonsense, Leonnig wrote, in part:

3. Libby didn't leak Plame's identity.

Oh, brother, am I tired of this one. Libby wasn't charged with the crime of knowingly leaking classified information about Plame; he was charged with lying to investigators. But the overwhelming weight of the evidence at the trial -- including reporters' notes of their interviews with Libby -- showed that Libby had indeed leaked classified information about Plame's identity, even though that wasn't what put him in the dock. The jury agreed that Libby lied when he said that he'd been telling reporters only what other reporters had told him about Plame's role at the CIA.

What is unclear is whether Libby knew she was a covert CIA agent at the time he discussed her with reporters -- a key point in determining whether this was an illegal leak. But Walton said that Libby "had a unique and special obligation" to keep such secrets, well, secret.

Oh brother Carol, are you and a lot of people tired of the nonsense from your colleague David Broder.

And Leonnig reminds us that the Bush Administration lied when it said it would fire anyone who leaked classified information:

5. The White House would fire any administration official who leaked classified information about Plame.

When the investigation began, the president said he hated leaks and would hold leakers of classified information accountable. But he has not sacked anyone over the case.

Libby resigned the day he was indicted in October 2005. Two other officials who gave reporters information about Plame, former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage and former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, left government before Fitzgerald's inquiry concluded. And Rove, who first told Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper about Plame's CIA identity, remains in the White House.

David Broder, who waxed civics on Bill Clinton's "loss of trust," cares not one whit about the lies of the Bush Administration. the man is a joke. He is also, appropriately, the Dean of the Washington Press Corps. What an indictment of the Washington Press Corps.

< The Simple Mind of David Broder | Is Fitzgerald's Appointment As Special Counsel A Close Constitutional Question? >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    Libby knew. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 10:28:59 AM EST
    He also knows what not only Cheney's involvement was, but Bush's as well. There is no other conclusion any reasonable person honest with themselves can arrive at.
    In a sense, it was Watergate in reverse. Instead of digging for the truth, lots of journalists tried to bury it. The sad fact remains the press was deeply involved in the cover-up, as journalists reported White House denials regarding the Plame leak despite the fact scores of them received the leak and knew the White House was spreading rampant misinformation about an unfolding criminal case.

    --Eric Boehlert



    A common misconception (3.00 / 1) (#2)
    by rdandrea on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:09:59 AM EST
    Bush never said anyone would be fired.  We just thought he said that.  Here's what he really said on September 30, 2003:

    Let me just say something about leaks in Washington. There are too many leaks of classified information in Washington. There's leaks at the executive branch; there's leaks in the legislative branch. There's just too many leaks. And if there is a leak out of my administration, I want to know who it is. And if the person has violated law, the person will be taken care of.

    It looks like by granting Libby a pardon, Bush will fulfill his promise to take care of people in his administration who violate the law.

    Fire Leakers (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:30:54 AM EST
    Press Conference of the President After G8 Summit (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:14:06 PM EST
    June 10, 2004:
    Q: Given -- given recent developments in the CIA leak case, particularly Vice President Cheney's discussions with the investigators, do you still stand by what you said several months ago, a suggestion that it might be difficult to identify anybody who leaked the agent's name?

    THE PRESIDENT: That's up to --

    Q: And, and, do you stand by your pledge to fire anyone found to have done so?

    THE PRESIDENT: Yes. And that's up to the U.S. Attorney to find the facts.



    Parent
    DSCC (none / 0) (#11)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:17:14 PM EST
    He said he would fire them (none / 0) (#3)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:26:46 AM EST
    Just not in the quote you provide.

    Sorry, you are mistaken.

    Parent

    No... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by rdandrea on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:55:08 AM EST
    He said they "will no longer work in my administration."

    That's true too.  Most of the rats have jumped off the sinking ship to get better jobs.

    Ease up--it's called "plausible deniability."

    Parent

    Noooo (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:01:45 PM EST
    He promised to fire any leakers.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:41:24 PM EST
    Bush never used the words fire. This is as close as it gets:

    And, Bush vowed to fire anyone responsible for the leak. Here's his White House Press Secretary, Scott McClellan, announcing this vow on September 29, 2003:

    McCLELLAN: The president has set high standards, the highest of standards for people in his administration. He's made it very clear to people in his administration that he expects them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct. If anyone in this administration was involved in it [the leaking of Plame's identity], they would no longer be in this administration. [...]

    Q: You continue to talk about the severity of this and if anyone has any information they should go forward to the Justice Department. But can you tell us, since it's so severe, would someone or a group of persons, lose their job in the White House?

    McCLELLAN: At a minimum.

    Q: At a minimum?

    McCLELLAN: At a minimum.



    Parent
    Noooo (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:52:00 PM EST
    bush was asked if he would "fire" the leakers. He answered "yes."

    you are wrong on this one Squeaky.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 01:11:22 PM EST
    I saw that, and realized it would have been a better quote,  but it still amount to the same thing, technically. Bush never uttered the words that he would fire the leakers.

    His intention was clear though, that he would fire anyone for leaking. Later he qualified it by adding that if the leak was a crime.


    Parent

    sigh... (1.00 / 1) (#23)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 01:29:30 PM EST
    Another case of fake but accurate, eh??

    ;-)

    Parent

    What? (5.00 / 2) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 01:33:03 PM EST
    Neither quote uses the words fire. Both are accurate.

    The only thing fake here is your point.

    Parent

    You're right too, rdandrea (none / 0) (#12)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:19:33 PM EST
    He did say that. But it was an after the fact backpedaling attempt that failed.

    Parent
    Hmm (1.00 / 1) (#5)
    by jarober on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:49:26 AM EST
    "Libby didn't leak Plame's identity."

    You mean the fact that Armitage admitted to being the source is somehow unreal?  I love the way the "reality based community" simply hops over inconvenient facts - which is exactly what they accuse the rest of us of doing.

    This is unreal (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:54:34 AM EST
    You write "Armitage was THE source."

    Libby was Miller's source. Not Armitage. For just one example of the silliness of your comment.

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#14)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:29:22 PM EST
    Armitage was Novak's source.

    Who told what to Libby after the leak occurred is anyone's guess.

    Parent

    No it is not anyone's guess (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:36:19 PM EST
    Armitage's leak prior to July was to Bob Woodward.

    Libby leaked on numerous occasions to numerous sources PRIOR to Armitage speaking to Novak.

    Do you knwo anything about the case Jim? I am amazed at how little you know about the case while you pontificate about it.

    You are not David Broder by chance?

    Parent

    Hah. hahaha. (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:41:30 PM EST
    Even broder isn't "not bright" enough to let jim be him. Heh.

    Parent
    Inconvenient fact being overlooked (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:09:20 PM EST
    The onlyInconvenient fact being overlooked is that the fact that Armitage may be culpable doesn't relieve the others of culpability for leaking classified information.

    YOU are the one overlooking the Inconvenient fact. Deal with it.



    Parent

    So... jarobster: (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:28:58 PM EST
    Armitage was  "THE source", hmm.?

    Wow. You're good!

    You're claiming now that Armitage just invented the information out of thin air now?  Maybe he was hallucinating? Hde  heard it through his fillings?

    This is a brand new development here. I'm impressed! This is even better than the incompetency defense. You can claim he told the truth, while at the same time claim it was a complete falsehood.

    Of course, there is a small matter of a state department mem... oh... oh, oh.

    Parent

    Edger (none / 0) (#16)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:40:38 PM EST
    Why don't you provide some links to add something to the collective knowledge??? Or is it you don't have any?? Here's one.

    Link

    Actually, in my first interview with Fitzgerald after he was named special prosecutor, he indicated that he knew Armitage was my leaker. I assumed that was the product of detective work by the FBI. In fact, Armitage had turned himself in to the Justice Department three months before Fitzgerald entered the case, without notifying the White House or releasing me from my requirement of confidentiality.

    Now. We know Armitage told Novak, that would be in the July 03 time frame.... who else did he tell?

    While my column on Wilson's mission triggered Libby's misery, I played but a minor role in his trial. Subpoenaed by his defense team, I testified that I had phoned him in reporting the Wilson column and that he had said nothing about Wilson's wife. Other journalists said the same thing under oath, but we apparently made no impression on the jury.


    Parent
    Yet again (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:50:38 PM EST
    you seem not to understand that the leak to Novak was NOT the only leak. You yourself write that Armitage spoke with Novak in July.

    By then Libby had already leaked the information to Judith Miller.

    Your best argument, and it is a bad one, is that since Armitage leaked to Woodward iaround June 11, the cat was already out of the bag so when Libby leaked to Miller on June 20, it did not matter.

    This is a bad argument for two reasons. First, EACH leak was a potential crime. Thus Armitage, Fleischer, rove and Libby were in legal jepopardy for their acts.

    Second, since neither Woodward nor Armitage disclosed that Armitage leaked to Woodward until AFTER Libby was indicted, there was no way for Fitzgerald to know Armitage was "first." As for as Fitzgerald knew at the time of Libby's indictment, Libby's leak to Miller was the first leak.

    Jim, you simply do not know what you are talking about on this.

     

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#25)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 01:33:57 PM EST
    You write:

    By then Libby had already leaked the information to Judith Miller.

    Novak is in disagreement.

    Subpoenaed by his defense team, I testified that I had phoned him in reporting the Wilson column and that he had said nothing about Wilson's wife. Other journalists said the same thing under oath,

    Looks like we need to get the ole trial machine going.....

    If you want to claim that there was a lot of confusion going on..... I think that's what Libby was saying....

    Parent

    No he isn't Jim (5.00 / 3) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 01:43:39 PM EST
    You do understand I hope that Judith miller and Robert novak are different people.

    Libby leaked to Miller on June 20.

    Armitage leaked to Robert novak in early JULY.

    Seriously dude, this is embarrassing now.

    I bessech you, either get some facts on the matter in your head or stop commenting on it.

    You are embarrassing yourself now.

    Parent

    BTD Why not the whole story...?? (1.00 / 1) (#29)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:03:36 PM EST
    June 23: Libby meets with Times reporter Judith Miller. During the meeting, Miller says, Libby tells her that Wilson's wife might work at a bureau of the CIA. Libby denies saying that

    The problem you have is that what you claim, Libby denies.

    Why can't you include the whole story?????

    Parent

    Um, Libby did not testify Jim (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:07:37 PM EST
    He did not deny anything.

    Sorry about that Chief.

    Parent

    BTD (none / 0) (#39)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:52:06 PM EST
    You're welcome, Brave.

    ;-)

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:57:05 PM EST
    BTW - Do you understand that calling someone "Chief" is consider a slur by Native Americans? Also in my youth, it was also not favored by blacks.

    Similar to saying "chop chop" to Chinese.

    Parent

    Sure Jim (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:24:26 PM EST
    Maxwell Smart may ring a bell for you.

    I assume calling you a maroon would be an insult due to your limited knowledge.

    Bugs Bunny probably is something you do not know about it as well.

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:41:26 PM EST
    So after you throw out a slur, you compound it.

    Again. You are supposed to be a leader around here.

    Why not act like it??

    Parent

    BTD (none / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:46:37 PM EST
    BTW - MAxwell Smart was what, 40 years ago? Think things have changed since then??

    Is "maroon" supposed to refer to the color red as in "Redskins?"

    Bugs Bunny as an excuse??? Have a carrot. Your internal vision needs help.

    Parent

    Bless yore heart Jimbo (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 06:11:28 PM EST
    You do insist on proving BTD right...

    Parent
    MB (1.00 / 1) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:20:17 PM EST
    I am here to serve, and point out that those who think they are our masters...

    aren't.

    Parent

    Our "masters" (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by sphealey on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 10:06:39 PM EST
    > I am here to serve, and point out that
    > those who think they are our masters...
    >
    > aren't.
    > PPJ

    I agree that whatever Dick Cheney may think, and whatever 4th branch of government he thinks he has suddenly discovered unrevealed for 230 years in the Constitution, he is not our "master".  Nor even the citizen temporarily entrusted with the office of senior executive office of the government.

    But I am surprised that you are willing to point that out.  I may have to give you more credit...

    sPh

    Parent

    Liars Do Lie (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:19:28 PM EST
    And who is the bigger liar, Miller or Libby.

    Neither are to be trusted.

    BTW ppj have you forgotten that Libby is a convicted perjurer?

    Parent

    squeaky (1.00 / 1) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:47:42 PM EST
    Nope. But if I had been on the jury, he would not have been.

    And what a terrible place to be. To want to take away a man's freedom because your politics makes you ignore the "reasonable doubt" issue.

    Who else knew??

    June 11 or 12: Grossman tells Libby that Wilson's wife works at the CIA and that State Department personnel are saying Wilson's wife was involved in planning the trip. A senior CIA officer gives him similar information, as does Cheney's top press aide, Cathie Martin, who had learned it from CIA spokesman Bill Harlow.

    Who else did Grossman tell??

    Who was the senior CIA officer?

    Who else did Martin tell?

    Who else did Harlow tell?

    Why did Harlow tell her?

    June 11 or 12: Cheney advises Libby that Wilson's wife works at the CIA.

    Who else did Cheney tell?

    June 13: Washington Post reporter Bob Woodward interviews Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage for a book. Armitage tells Woodward in a taped interview that Wilson's wife works for the CIA.

    Who else, besides Novak, did Armitage tell?

    Did Novak call Armitage? If so, why? Who alerted Novak??

    I think you can see my point. This had to have been the worst kept secret in the history of the world....

    Parent

    hahahahaha (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:23:33 PM EST
    For such a poorly kept secret you took a long time to realize that Plame was in fact covert.

    Oh, I forgot you still don't know that. You are  waiting for the trial.

    Parent

    squeaky (1.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:25:45 PM EST
    Please don't put words in my mouth.

    I am waiting for the definition of "served" vs "short" trips to be adjudicated.

    In the meantime it is possible but most unlikely that the CIA will provide additional information will settle the issue.

    Parent

    "served" vs "short" trips? (5.00 / 0) (#57)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:33:10 PM EST
    You mean "time served", and "short" perp walks?

    Maybe you should try practicing Omertà, before your bush goes up in flames.

    Parent

    edger..foot and mouth... (1.00 / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:28:50 PM EST
    I would think that after exposing yourself as believeing the "strategies" you linked to you would go hide.

    That you have not merely proves that you are a believer... That explains all. You just don't have the vaguest idea..

    Let me see.. should we cut off funding or should we defund the funding... no that would help Haliburton so we need to fund the defundung to allow us to defund the funding... in the meantime, let's:

    In cases where a serious insurgency cannot be managed, the state and its supporters might consider an approach designed to deliberately encourage the insurgency to mutate into something less dangerous such as an organized criminal organization. This is never desirable, but there may be rare instances where organized crime is less of a threat than sustained insurgency. Call this strategic methadone.

    Yes  folks. egder actually linked to the above in answer to my question as to how he would handle the WOT...

    Wow! Eh??

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#58)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:35:38 PM EST
    None of which absolves (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:24:05 PM EST
    Libby for leaking classified information and then lying about it to the grand jury investigating which person or persons leaked the info.

    I've lost count the number of times this has been explained to you today, let alone the number of times in the history of the Libby case.

    You are entitled to your own apriori beliefs and opinions.

    You are not entitled to your own facts nor are you entitled to your own special laws.

    You must apply the law to the facts. Libby leaked, he lied about it to the investigators, it was material and he was found to have committed perjury.

    Be brave, put on your game face, be a man about it, and accept the you are simply wrong.



    Parent

    MB (1.00 / 1) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:30:59 PM EST
    Judging from the number of people who leaked, I find it amazing that it took Fitzgerald until the trial was over to claim she was covert..

    Given that would have been a huge point in his favor during the trial, you have to wonder about the timing.

    So be a woman about it, put on some make up and face the facts that this was a political attack fosited by the Demos and their water carriers in the MSM.

    Parent

    Bless yore heart Jimbo (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 06:02:50 PM EST
    You just don't let a lil' thing like facts get in the way of your beliefs do you? I bet you feel it in your gut. And why not, facts have a well known liberal bias...

    Read em and weep:

    When Libby was convicted, some conservative pundits complained that Fitzgerald had presented no compelling evidence at trial that Plame was covert. But that wasn't for lack of evidence; it was because Libby's lawyers convinced the court to bar any mention of her status during the trial, arguing that evidence suggesting that her job was classified would have been "unfairly prejudicial" to their client



    Parent

    MB (1.00 / 0) (#68)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:31:00 PM EST
    Since the question of her status had not been resolved...... get the point..counselor??

    Parent
    Stop eating mushrooms Jim (none / 0) (#70)
    by Molly Bloom on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:40:19 PM EST
    In correct statement of fact. She was a NOC.  Get over it.



    Parent

    MB (1.00 / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 10:29:35 PM EST
    Are you familar with the expressiom:

    "You protest too much?"

    Parent

    One last time (none / 0) (#79)
    by Molly Bloom on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 06:40:24 AM EST
    She says she was a NOC. The CIA says she was a NOC. Its called direct testimony. Its admissible as evidence. They also have the supporting documentation.

    You have no evidence, other than your apriori belief, that she was not. Zero. Zip. Nada.

    Get over it. Be a man, and admit you are wrong.

    Parent

    He didn't testify (none / 0) (#34)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:27:57 PM EST
    So No chance to lie.

    Parent
    What about (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:40:10 PM EST
    His GJ testimony. He had a chance to lie then.

    Parent
    Of course (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:45:35 PM EST
    I meant at trial.

    Jim quote Fox News, of course, saying "Libby denies that."

    Libby DID NOT deny that at trial, when the evidence was presented to a jury.

    Both Fox and Jim seem not to grasp that simple fact.

    That's what the infamous "memory expert" was about. The claim was he FORGOT he told her.

    Parent

    BTB (1.00 / 1) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:50:26 PM EST
    Okay, if you want to parse the point, go ahead. I give you 50 style points for setting it up...Fact is, he claims is not committing perjury.

    Parent
    He can remain in denial all he wants. You do. (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:05:00 PM EST
    Fact is... he was convicted of perjury.

    Parent
    Parse the point? (4.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:22:51 PM EST
    Sheesh.

    He claims he FORGOT he told Miller.

    you claimed he denied saying it. You were wrong.

    That is not parsing Jim. That is debunking you and exposing you know nothing about the case.

    Parent

    BTD (1.00 / 1) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:21:10 PM EST
    Nope. I quoted a source that said he denies it. You say he claims he forgot.

    Either way the results are the same as far as perjury is concerned.

    Like I said, nicely done and 50 style points...

    BTW - Can you prove he didn't forget??

    Parent

    squeaky, edger, MB (1.00 / 0) (#66)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:21:44 PM EST
    BTW - Notice how I didn't defend the source, attack BTD or do any of the other usual Leftt trick..

    Parent
    You're doing fine, jim. (none / 0) (#19)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 12:48:57 PM EST
    Now you can produce some links to Armitage's source for the info.

    Try your best to do better than jarobster's hallucination theory, ok bud?

    Parent

    edger (1.00 / 1) (#26)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 01:36:09 PM EST
    My point is that you toss off "memo..." and then provide no proof.

    You are good at providing long tracts produced by various writers against the war, etc., but you almost never prduce somethig with specifics.

    Time to put up.


    Parent

    Your turn. (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:17:53 PM EST
    You really should try to know what you're talking about, jim.
    the Justice Department had launched a criminal investigation into the Plame leak after the CIA informed officials there that she was an undercover officer.) Within hours, William Howard Taft IV, the State Department's legal adviser, notified a senior Justice official that Armitage had information relevant to the case. The next day, a team of FBI agents and Justice prosecutors investigating the leak questioned the deputy secretary. Armitage acknowledged that he had passed along to Novak information contained in a classified State Department memo
    Michael Isikoff, Newsweek, Sept. 4, 2006

    Somebody gave Armitage the memo. Who was it? Rove? Libby? At whose orders? Cheney? Bush?

    Parent

    to clarify (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:25:33 PM EST
    Armitage admitted he passed it along in JULY.

    Parent
    Do we know yet (none / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:26:55 PM EST
    who gave it to him?

    Parent
    Grossman I imagine (5.00 / 1) (#48)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:35:00 PM EST
    What you are getting at is who would order the memo in the first place.

    It was Dick Cheney, who was outraged by the May Nick Kristof article.

    Like Barzini (Godfather rerence), it was Cheney along.

    Parent

    Yes, I should have been clearer. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:41:49 PM EST
    That's what I meant.

    The CA Democratic Party has a good quick reference timeline up on their site:

    With Scooter Libby's testimony that President Bush authorized the disclosure of classified information in order to discredit Joe Wilson for questioning the White House's use of intelligence, the American people are finding out the true lengths that the Bush Administration went to in order to squash criticism as they planned their campaign for war. In addition to President Bush and Vice President Cheney's sign-off on leaking classified information to a New York Times reporter, there are still unanswered questions about the White House's role in revealing the identify of Wilson's wife as a CIA officer as retribution, as well as the White House effort to keep its involvement out of the public eye. Below is a timeline you may find useful.


    Parent
    The Memo (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:50:37 PM EST
    Memo (5.00 / 2) (#51)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 04:58:19 PM EST
    Grossman's memo was prepared at the request of Scooter Libby. It was Cheney and Libby who wanted to know about Valerie Plame Wilson -- see the copy of the news article (pdf) posted by Empty Wheel with Cheney's handwritten questions.

    TL

    Parent

    Circulation of the Memo (none / 0) (#53)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:22:35 PM EST
    According to the CADem timelime Armitage asked Carl Ford, Asst. Sec./Intelligence and Research to send a copy of the memo to Powell. Ford sent it to Armitage at the WH to send to Powell on AF1 who gave it to 'WH officials' on AF1.

    Fitzgerald believed "that a printout of memo was in the front of Air Force One"

    Bush was on Air Force One at the time. So was Fleischer.

    Was Cheney?

    Regardless, it should be obvious that none of Bush's staff on AF1 knew something that they ALL did not know.

    Parent

    But of course (none / 0) (#54)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 05:25:13 PM EST
    there was no underlying crime. Of course.

    Parent
    What (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by squeaky on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:35:00 PM EST
    Idle thoughts of (none / 0) (#71)
    by Edger on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 08:43:34 PM EST
    Why Plame wasn't covert (1.00 / 3) (#74)
    by diogenes on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 10:39:26 PM EST
    If she were, then Fitz would have done like any good prosecutor and indicted ARMITAGE (he knew that he had the goods on him), then offered immunity or a plea bargain if he ratted out Bush, Cheney, Rove, etc.  Wasn't forcing someone to rat out the higher ups the whole point of indicting Libby anyway?
    The fact that Fitz didn't indict Armitage in normal prosecutorial fashion makes me suspect that Fitz knew that he couldn't make the outing a "covert" agent charge stick.  Which is why he went on the fishing expidition instead.

    Wrong conclusion (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by Repack Rider on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:07:27 PM EST
    The fact that Fitz didn't indict Armitage in normal prosecutorial fashion makes me suspect that Fitz knew that he couldn't make the outing a "covert" agent charge stick.

    Makes me suspect that the defense would have used graymail to prevent a trial on the leak by claiming the evidence was classified, and Fitz showed them that he wasn't going to fall for that crap.

    He put Libby in jail for lying because Libby couldn't possibly claim that lies were classified.  Now, as long as the president doesn't further obstruct justice by offering a pardon, Fitz can squeeze Scooter to give up his boss.

    Probably why Fitz is one of the best prosecutors in the country and you aren't.

    Parent

    Fitz a good prosecutor? (1.00 / 2) (#77)
    by diogenes on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 11:37:57 PM EST
    If Fitz, and not I, am one of the "best prosecutors in the country", then why did he indict someone who would not cave in?  And why did he get a conviction on "perjury", thus creating enough of a perception that there was no real crime committed that a pardon could happen?  A conviction for revealing the identity of a covert agent would be much harder to pardon in terms of long-term political consequences for the Repubs.
    Armitage admitted the leak-Fitz could have charged him and simply proved that Plame was covert-which should be simple for one so skilled as he, since all the bloggers know this to be true already.  Hey-for that matter Fitz could have indicted Libby on charges of leaking classified info if Libby really did it.  

    Simpler answers to sillier questions (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Repack Rider on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 03:08:28 AM EST
    If Fitz, and not I, am one of the "best prosecutors in the country", then why did he indict someone who would not cave in?

    Whom did you have in mind?  If you are in fact a better prosecutor than Fitz, please identify one of your cases.

    And why did he get a conviction on "perjury", thus creating enough of a perception that there was no real crime committed that a pardon could happen?  

    Because perjury and obstruction of justice are crimes.  Prosecutors prosecute crimes.  Is this a trick question?  Only an idiot would believe that obstruction of justice, the crime that brought Nixon down, is not a "real" crime.  If criminals are allowed to get away with obstruction of justice, we no longer have a legal system.

    A conviction for revealing the identity of a covert agent would be much harder to pardon in terms of long-term political consequences for the Repubs.

    And unfortunately would also allow the criminals to employ a "graymail" legal strategy of insisting that the evidence is classified and that a trial would itself reveal information the public had no right to.  Fitz was not going to fall into that trap.  Federal prosecutors may use whatever it takes to get criminals off the streets, or in this case out of the White House.  Al Capone was a murderer, but he was sent to prison for tax evasion.  Would you have set him free because tax evasion isn't a "heinous enough" crime?.

    Armitage admitted the leak-Fitz could have charged him and simply proved that Plame was covert-which should be simple for one so skilled as he, since all the bloggers know this to be true already.

    The president also knows it to be true, but he didn't fire him.  Why not?

    Hey-for that matter Fitz could have indicted Libby on charges of leaking classified info if Libby really did it.

    Perhaps you haven't noticed that Mr. Libby is going to prison anyway, so it hardly matters which of his many crimes resulted in the conviction.

    Parent

    Fire away (none / 0) (#28)
    by Tom Maguire on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 02:57:11 PM EST
    I have read and re-read the Leonnig piece and I am still stumped - is she saying it is a myth that Bush promised to fire people, or a myth that Bush dealt with this as he said he would?

    Big Tent seems to think Leonning is on his side, and seems to be saying that Bush did in fact promise to fire people.

    I happen to think Leonning is on the opposite side.  Just re-read her first four myths - in each case she presents what she believes to be a false statement (e.g., "1. Valerie Plame wasn't a covert operative.") and explains why it is false (e.e., a "myth").

    So look at Myth 5: The White House would fire any administration official who leaked classified information about Plame.

    Big Tent thinks this is presented, alone among the five, as a true statement.  

    I disagree, and said so a long while back.

    Fro example,the June 10 2004 press conference cited above inspired the titleof my post - Don't Play 'Gotcha' With The President.

    The reporter asked Bush if he stood by his earlier pledge, then mis-stated that pledge.  Bush said "Yes".  A wiser man would have said, not so fast, I stand by my pledge, not your mis-statement of it.  

    But let's not play word games - Bush's original pledge did not include firing, as Leonnig seems to be saying in her article.

    As to the other myths - I would have said that "3. Libby didn't leak Plame's identity." was a strawman, arguing that nobody makes that claim.  I guess the above thread shuts me up.  Left out by Leonnig - Libby's own testimony is that he leaked to Miller (on July 12) and Cooper.

    Point 1 I hope to post on yet again - Ms. Leonnig closes with this:

    The CIA isn't famous for its clarity, but it's being pretty blunt on this issue: Langley says she was covert. Which other spook bureaucracy do you need to ask?

    Yeah, yeah.  From a follow-up defense filing we learned this:

    The summary described above [Ms. Plame's CIA employment summary] was provided to the defense along with a companion summary that defined a "covert" CIA employee as a "CIA employee whose employment is not publicly acknowledged by the CIA or the employee."4 It is important to bear in mind that the IIPA defines "covert agent" differently.

    As to "Langely says she was covert", Rep. Hoekstra got this from the CIA in response to a query about Ms. Plame's IIPA status:

    On March 21, Hoekstra [Ranking Republican on the House Intel Committee] again requested the CIA to define Mrs. Wilson's status. A written reply April 5 from Christopher J. Walker, the CIA's director of congressional affairs, said only that "it is taking longer than expected" to reply because of "the considerable legal complexity required for this tasking."

    Ms. Leonning notwithstanding, the CIA isn't saying.

    Wiser man? (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by Edger on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 07:04:33 AM EST
    The reporter asked Bush if he stood by his earlier pledge, then mis-stated that pledge.  Bush said "Yes".  A wiser man would have said, not so fast, I stand by my pledge, not your mis-statement of it.  

    But let's not play word games - Bush's original pledge did not include firing, as Leonnig seems to be saying in her article.

    We're dealing with Bush's own statements here, and his public interpretation of his own meaning.

    It seems clear that Bush is a "wise" (or at least not stupid) enough man to not fall into the trap of denying his own meaning, and understood his own words to mean to be taken as implying "firing", as did anyone else who heard them. Which explains his answer in the June 10, 2004 press conference:

    Q: And, and, do you stand by your pledge to fire anyone found to have done so?

    THE PRESIDENT: Yes. And that's up to the U.S. Attorney to find the facts.

    Nearly all of the media for a long time had interpreted his initial statements to mean "firing". Bush and the WH at no time undertook any campaign to correct that interpretations if they deemed it to be misinterpretation.

    Parent
    It seems eminently clear what she meant (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 03:14:57 PM EST
    5. The White House would fire any administration official who leaked classified information about Plame.

    When the investigation began, the president said he hated leaks and would hold leakers of classified information accountable. But he has not sacked anyone over the case.

    Libby resigned the day he was indicted in October 2005. Two other officials who gave reporters information about Plame, former deputy secretary of state Richard L. Armitage and former White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, left government before Fitzgerald's inquiry concluded. And Rove, who first told Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper about Plame's CIA identity, remains in the White House.

    It was a myth that the White House would fire anyone DESPITe saying it would. You argue they did not say it. They KNEW everyone THOUGHT they did and they never clarified the point Tom.
    this seems a silly game for you to play.

    Parent

    I'm sure you think it is clear... (none / 0) (#62)
    by Tom Maguire on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 06:07:57 PM EST
    Let me help here - if I say I don't understand her, it is because I don't understand her, not because I am playing silly games.

    As best I can read it, it is either a myth that the WH said they would fire everyone who leaked, or a myth that they did in fact fire everyone.  Since I don't know anyone claiming that Bush fired all the leakers, I don't see how that could be the myth, so by process of elimination, I infer that the myth is the the WH said it at all.

    And since she uses the word "accountable" rather than "fired" in her next paragraph, she seems to be suggesting that Bush described a different outcome than "fired".

    Need more help?  When I posted, almost two years ago, that when Bush says "yes" to a reporter who asks, in effect, "Do you stand by your pledge that I am now mis-stating", the yes applies to "Stand by the pledge" not "I stand by the newly mis--stated pledge".  Don't put words in the President's mouth.

    You want to call that a silly game?  Quite a compelling rebuttal.

    Regarding the INR memo - it was prepared at State in response to Libby's questions; Libby did not "request" a memo, as asserted above, and in fact, never saw this one (OK, he claims he never saw it and no one claims to have given it to him, but who knows...)

    Armitage almost surely saw the June 10 copy, since he leaked the contents to Woodward in June 13.

    Who ordered him to get a copy?  Please - Armitage's underlings had prepared a memo to prepare their response to queries from OVP; any bureaucrat with half a brain (i.e., Armitage and Powell) would want to know what the underlings were telling OVP, in case Cheney buttonholed one of them with follow-up questions.  

    "I don't know what my people have told your people" is not the answer Powell or Armitage would want to be giving to the VP outside a Cabinet meeting.  

    Hold up (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Jun 10, 2007 at 07:27:08 PM EST
    I know your theory. It hought we were discussing Leonnig's theory. You write:

    As best I can read it, it is either a myth that the WH said they would fire everyone who leaked, or a myth that they did in fact fire everyone.  Since I don't know anyone claiming that Bush fired all the leakers, I don't see how that could be the myth, so by process of elimination, I infer that the myth is the the WH said it at all.

    Yes, I get that you think that. My point is that Leonnig clearly does not.

    Parent

    Let me nake one thing perfectly clear.... (none / 0) (#81)
    by Tom Maguire on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 02:14:50 PM EST
    OK, hows does it work - the first person to say "Leonning statement is clear" three times wins?

    Right now you are up 2-0, but stand back:

    Leonning is clearly supporting my view.

    Leonning is clearly supporting my view.

    Leonning is clearly supporting my view.

    Great, I win.  Unless it is four out of seven.

    And this argument by assertion sure beats actually explaining why it is clear  (I obviously wasted time trying to explain why it may not not be clear, when the route to a winning arguement was right in front of me.)

    Tom M (none / 0) (#82)
    by jimakaPPJ on Mon Jun 11, 2007 at 05:38:22 PM EST
    That's a great point.

    Parent