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Andrew Cuomo's "Shuck and Jive" Comment

Speaking for me only.

Andrew Cuomo commented:
”It’s not a TV crazed race. Frankly you can’t buy your way into it,” Cuomo said. “You can’t shuck and jive at a press conference,” he added. “All those moves you can make with the press don’t work when you’re in someone’s living room.”
Cuomo tried to clarify that he was not referring to Senator Barack Obama. It seems hard to see how he was not. Cuomo must apologize for this racially insensitive, at best, comment. If he does not, the Clinton campaign must repudiate it. It went well over the line.

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    if cuomo isn't (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by cpinva on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:54:14 PM EST
    officially associated with sen. clinton's campaign, why the hell should she apologize for anything idiotic he said? he's a big boy, he doesn't officially represent her, let him make his own apologies.

    that makes about as much sense as the PGA apologizing for that poorly made choice of words by what's her name, tilghman or something. from the whole event, it was clear what she meant, just bad word choice. should the PGA, who doesn't employ her, be required to apologize to tiger woods?

    don't be ridiculous.

    now, if sen. clinton wants to say "geez andrew, that was sort of a stupid thing to say, whatever were you thinking?", i have no problem with that. but she's not obligated to assume responsibility for the stupid comments made by anyone who supports her. neither is obama, or anyone else, unless that person is actually a part of their campaign.

    I think he's secretly for Obama, (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:59:20 PM EST
    and said what he said to hurt Hillary's campaign. Very Rovian.

    Parent
    Ah, Like the allegedly (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:26:03 PM EST
    mfg. "teary eye."  Good thinking.

    Parent
    Thanks. (none / 0) (#39)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:42:12 PM EST
    They can't pull the wool over our eyes.

    Parent
    What do you expect? (1.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 10:49:25 AM EST

    What do you expect from the party of Jim Crow and racial preferences then, now, and forever?  We give you preferences, you give us votes, but that doesn't mean you can use the front door.

    Get (none / 0) (#23)
    by Warren Terrer on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:17:48 PM EST
    a clue.

    Parent
    Stop with (1.00 / 1) (#22)
    by RalphB on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 11:58:33 AM EST
    this BS racial crap.  From a transcript of the radio program, Andrew Cuomo was answering a question about the Iowa and NH races in general.  The host of the program said it was so far removed from a discussion of any one candidate, he didn't see how it could be construed to be about Obama.

    If you think that "shuck and jive" only applies to black people and not a con job in general, then I would say you should look in the mirror to see the racist.


    Hopefully we can all (none / 0) (#1)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 08:21:42 AM EST
    Repudiate this kind of stuff, though. I thought shuck and jive were old school lingo, or stuff old black men said about Soulja Boy and Too $hort, not duly elected United States Senators and possible Presidents.

    It just escapes me (none / 0) (#2)
    by scribe on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 08:55:36 AM EST
    what these Clinton surrogates are thinking.  OF course, that assumes they are.

    Are they just insensitive idiots? (not likely)
    Are they deliberately trying to inflame racial passions? (stupid, if true)
    Are they trying to divert attention? (dubious - and one would have to ask "from what?" and "to what?")

    The best part of this is that Obama has remained classy in his non-response.  But, when Rove and the Rethugs crank up the racial stuff (The LardLad has started already), it would surely be helpful if a vigorous response were ready to go.  Otherwise, it's SwiftBoat, redux.


    Obama surrogates (none / 0) (#4)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:08:47 AM EST
    Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s comments were reprehensible imo.  

    There are no angels here.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#7)
    by BlueLakeMichigan on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:20:56 AM EST
    I don't get it -- why do these campaigns HAVE to go down this path? Is there no thought that maybe this will hurt whoever is the nominee?

    Parent
    i agree (none / 0) (#14)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:54:21 AM EST
    I don't even see what political gain he got from making that comment.  It seems really risky to be that nasty, you better be expecting the comments do a lot of damage. I don't get the comments from either campaign.

    Parent
    "Clinton surrogate"? (none / 0) (#28)
    by MarkL on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:43:05 PM EST
    garbage term.
    JJJR is the CO-CHAIR of Obama's campaign.

    Parent
    Helping Mark Steyn take the high road (none / 0) (#3)
    by commissar on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:08:16 AM EST
    from NRO The Corner

    Actually, it was (Democrat) Bob Kerrey doing the whole secret-muslim thing and (Democrat) Bill Shaheen doing the sold-cocaine thing and (Democrat) Andrew Young doing the Bill Clinton's-slept-with-more-black-women-than-Obama thing. We NRO guys are staying well clear.


    Jesse Jackson Jr? (none / 0) (#5)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:09:23 AM EST
    There are no saints here.

    Parent
    The old cliche (none / 0) (#6)
    by commissar on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:20:40 AM EST
    "once is an accident; twice is a coincidence; three times is a conspiracy."

    I suppose that thought opens up a "Yeah, but D-Punjab"

    But, BTD, in YOUR opinion, while there are no saints here, would you agree there is a distinctly troubling pattern from the Clinton surrogates, which significantly outweighs any "halo-slipping" from Edwards & Obama?

    Clinton AND Obama (none / 0) (#9)
    by magster on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:31:31 AM EST
    Need to very publicly set the tone about what is acceptable from their supporters, or there will be a divided party with lots of hard feelings after 2/5/08.

    Parent
    Not so much D-Punjab, as other sexist crap (none / 0) (#11)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:37:25 AM EST
    As Obama's comments seeking to reduce Hillary experience to "having tea" and those trying to marginalize her into nothing more than playing the wife role to Bill.   He also used discredited reports about her long-term ambition (those ambitious women are such a problem, you know).

    Obama and his people, IMO, have been playing dog whistle sexist politics.  The difference for me is that they have been better at it until recently (and helped immensely by a sexist press unlikely to call them on it).

    The Clinton surrogates haven't been nearly as good at it, IMO.  They've been incredibly clumsy, in fact.  Which does not make it okay, these kinds of attacks are just as noxious whether done well or poorly.

    Frankly, both camps need to STFU about this stuff.  I thought Clinton's camp had learned that after Shaheen, but maybe not (although because of the negative backlash against Shaheen, I'm more inclined to believe Cuomo was out there on his own or maybe just slipped in the phrase he used, but because of the history, I can't be sure and she still needs to back away, very quickly, because this crap is repugnant).

    Both candidates are better than this.

    Parent

    Depressing (none / 0) (#8)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:28:47 AM EST
    Yesterday was depressing.  Between these comments from Cuomo and Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s comments about Clinton - just ugh!

    I'd like to think Cuomo's comments weren't planned by Clinton or part of any strategy since he's not officially associated with her campaign, but I agree she needs to make that clear and repudiate them.  Then she needs to reign in her surrogates - they are terrible at hitting Obama.  Terrible.  They almost always do more damage to her.  And even if Cuomo didn't mean to use such racially insensitive language - why is a Cuomo so verbally clumsy and tone deaf?  WTF?

    I don't even know what to say about Jesse Jackson, Jr.  Normally, on something like this I'd give Obama the benefit of the doubt, too, but Jackson is one of his campaign's leaders and it looked to me like this was a major point he wanted to make in the interview?   He does know, right, that there are a lot of women in states beyond New Hampshire?  WTF?

    Thoroughly depressing.  And I don't know what it says about our culture that what should be inspiring runs for all Americans almost immediately sunk to the worst in identity politics, trying to pit African Americans and women against one another (and I don't know where that leaves African American women).  Well, except that hundreds of years of inequality really screws even the oppressed up.

    True, there are no saints in this. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Maryb2004 on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:35:42 AM EST
    And we're dealing with pros. The Clintons know this political game backwards and forwards, if for nothing else because it's been used on them so much.  And Obama?  He's from Chicago where it is an art form.  

    I think the Clintons are playing the more dangerous game here through their surrogates.  They've got a lot of sympathy from women going for Hillary from the focus on sexism in the media.   They still have capital in the black community left over from Bill.   They could lose both if they let this go too far.  But my bet is they take the risk and this continues in subtle forms right up through Super Tuesday.

    Of course I agree with your post - they should repudiate it, it went over the line.  And I'm sure they will - at the point where they think it's gotten enough media coverage but they can still squeek in under the wire on taking the high road.    


    I guess it just doesn't make sense to me (none / 0) (#12)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:45:41 AM EST
    why anyone would want to use a racist attack so close to the South Carolina primary. Does. Not. Compute.

    I think the most likely explanation is that Cuomo was being unintentionally racist, but racist just the same.

    That's Why (none / 0) (#13)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:52:10 AM EST
    I think the Cuomo thing wasn't coordinated with the Clinton campaign.  They are getting ready to enter a slew of more racially diverse states and it's just stupid, IMO.  Having said that, I think it says something that I - a Clinton supporter - still want reassurance from the candidate on this issue and for her to denounce it.

    Honestly, I think Hillary may have found her voice in NH, but most of her supporters are still tone deaf.

    I think Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s comments were equally stupid, I'm pretty sure there are women in South Carolina and elsewhere.  I don't know if he also decided to "help" his candidate without the candidate's approval or if Obama's campaign has gotten away with so much, they just don't expect to get called on it.  I'm really hoping it's the former and, just as I'd accept a repudiation from Clinton, I'd accept one from Obama.

    They have to start reigning their people in and making sure that these things don't happen.

    Parent

    There's a reason why (none / 0) (#15)
    by andgarden on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:56:15 AM EST
    modern politicians hate talking to the press so much. You run your mouth long enough, and you'll say something impolitic.

    Parent
    Planting ideas (none / 0) (#16)
    by Maryb2004 on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:56:21 AM EST
    The Clinton campaign benefits if two ideas are planted in the minds of voters:

    "Obama can lose because of racial prejudice (in fact he may have lost NH because of this)."

    " Hillary can win because sexist attacks on her increase her support."

    They may not think this hurts them in SC if they buy into the idea that Black voters are waiting to see if Obama is electable before they commit their support.

    That remains to be seen.  Perhaps Black voters are like women voters and attacks on race increase Obama's support.   And considering that about 50% of the Black vote is made up of women - it's a dangerous game they are playing.  But it may work.


    Parent

    speaking to her base (none / 0) (#17)
    by Heather on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 09:59:21 AM EST
    NH showed that Hillary's base is primarily working class dems. High school grads, middle to lower class, hourly wage earners, rank and file, and  poor whites, etc. Her surrogates are speaking directly to these folks.

    Her base is responsive to thinly veiled racist comments. That's why they are going to keep doing it. These are smart political pros who do not make a slip of the tongue when talking to media.

    Its no accident.

    rewriting history (none / 0) (#19)
    by Jgarza on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 11:26:02 AM EST
    The most offensive part of her campaign IMO has been her attempt to rewrite the history of the civil rights movement. People took notice.  

    Hard Call (none / 0) (#20)
    by squeaky on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 11:27:19 AM EST
    Cuomo obviously made a mistake. He claims that he was using the phrase to speak of all candidates in Iowa and NH.

    The spin is that he was being racist and it was directed at Obama. He needs to say that it was a poor choice of words. FOr Clinton to repudiate the phrase would be difficult because she would be in effect buying the version that it was intentionally racist.

    That would be worse for her than saying nothing.  

    I do not see how intentionally using the phrase helps Hillary at all. She is not a white guy and has her own problems as a woman running for the nomination. If this was strategy it would translate to something like:

    Hey I may be a woman, but at least I am not black.

    I cannot see how this  helps her.

    TPM (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 11:35:37 AM EST
    has more from Cuomo. He is um, bobbing and weaving.

    Parent
    from your link: (none / 0) (#24)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:32:59 PM EST
    We've been getting calls from the Cuomo people on this who want to point out, correctly, that the AG was not referring to Barack Obama when he used the phrase "shuck and jive," but to what politicians in general do with the media. Cuomo's point was when candidates meet a substantial proportion of primary voters or caucus goers in person, such as in NH or Iowa, there is a certain genuineness that can be avoided in a big-state media-heavy campaign.
    my bolds.

    Like I said on the other thread, I don't think he meant anything racial by the comment, however, it's a phrase that he's a horse's @ss for using.

    Parent

    I Agree (none / 0) (#51)
    by squeaky on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 06:09:46 PM EST
    CUOMO isn't apart of the Clinton campaign (none / 0) (#25)
    by sammiemorris on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:33:19 PM EST
    Last time i checked..

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/1/11/123448/291/200/435086

    BTD, you're a little late.
    non surrogate says nothing racist..

    Questionable linkage for authority! (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:57:20 PM EST
    That is absurd (none / 0) (#33)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:13:56 PM EST
    Andrew Cuomo, the Attorney General For New York, is a prominent supporter of Clinton's.

    Just as Jesse Jackson, Jr is a prominent supporter of Obama's.

    I expect reaction from both camps to the remarks made by them.

    Parent

    Where may I look to confirm: (none / 0) (#35)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:21:02 PM EST
    "Andrew Cuomo, the Attorney General For New York, is a prominent supporter of Clinton's."
     [Italics added.]
    Thanks.

    Parent
    Has Andrew Cuomo stated publicly prior to making (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:37:08 PM EST
    the "shuck and jive" comment whom he supports as the Dem. Presidential nominee?

    Is he had not, why is his remark a demerit against Hillary Clinton as opposed to a demerit solely against Cuomo?

    He is a Hillary supporter (none / 0) (#43)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:53:31 PM EST
    and a prominent one.

    Parent
    reading in context, there's no (none / 0) (#27)
    by MarkL on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 12:42:21 PM EST
    reference at all to Obama. I don't think this piling on is justified.
    A lot of white people don't know the original meaning of "shuck and jive": Cuomo says he didn't, and I did not, before I looked up the definition yesterday.

    Umm (none / 0) (#32)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:07:24 PM EST
    This is ludicrous.

    There are two major candidates in the Dem primary. One is Barack Obama. How could it NOT be about him?

    Parent

    Disagree on # of candidates (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Jeralyn on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:22:20 PM EST
    There are many Democrat and Republican candidates in this race -- he never limited his comments to the Dems.

    He now says he was talking about all of them. Was he? Who knows.

    On one other point, regardless of whom he supports, he's not a "surrogate" of Clinton and his remarks should not be tied to her and she is not responsible for them.

    Parent

    She is NOT responsible for them, (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:53:00 PM EST
    But she is ASSOCIATED with them just as she was ASSOCIATED with Billy Shaheen's remarks (I know he held some honorary title i the campaig and Cuomo does not).

    I am not saying she should apologize. Indeed, what SHOULD happen is Andrew Cuomo should apologize for them, as Shaheen did his.

    It is not like I am asking for some impossible statement.

    Parent

    I Think (none / 0) (#52)
    by squeaky on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 06:19:08 PM EST
    That Cuomo was not referring to Obama and it is as he says, but I do not believe for a second that he would have said shuck and jive were not a black man in the race.

    IMO he was trying to be seen as hip to black lingo, and got it really wrong.

    He should apologize.

    Parent

    supporter vs. campaign co-chair (none / 0) (#34)
    by sammiemorris on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:16:23 PM EST
    I am a private supporter of Clinton who may or may not support her solely because I am a racist democrat. Does she have to apologize for me in case I am racist.

    Jesse Jackson Jr. is a PART of OBAMA's campaign.. He is his CAMPAIGN CO CHAIR.

    Andrew Cuomo, who hails from the same state as Clinton and supports her, HAS NO OFFICIAL ROLE IN HER CAMPAIGN.

    Yes he has more name recognition than me, but Hillary does not have to apologize on behalf of supporters who have nothing to do with her campaign.

    Yes he has more name recognition (none / 0) (#41)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:50:33 PM EST
    makes it different.

    BTW, who said apologize? I wrote REPUDIATE.

    Parent

    I predict anyone holding him/herself (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:22:29 PM EST
    out as an expert on phrases candidates and their staff and their supporters should avoid as sexist or racist will make big $$$ this election cycle.

    Full Context (none / 0) (#40)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 01:44:17 PM EST
    FWIW, here's the longer version of what Cuomo said:

    You know I've spent a lot of time in other races, especially in Iowa and in New Hampshire, back with Gore and back with Clinton. Those races require you to do something no other race does, you know, and I like it, and I agree with you, it's a good thing. It's not a TV-crazed race, you know, you can't just buy your way through that race [FD: Airport press conference and the media markets.....], it doesn't work that way, it's frankly a more demanding process. You have to get on a bus, you have to go into a diner, you have to shake hands, you have to sit down with ten people in a living room. You can't shuck and jive at a press conference, you can't just put off reporters, because you have real people looking at you saying answer the question, you know, and all those moves you can make with the press don't work when you're in someone's living room. And I think it's good for the candidates, I think it makes the candidates communicate in a way that works with real people because you know in a living room right away whether or not you're communicating, and I think the questions are good and I think the scrutiny is good, so you can, you can say they're small states and they get a lot of attention -- they are very good for the process, I believe that.

    It seems better in the larger context, but I still wonder about the use of that particular phrase.  I don't know, frankly, which would be more depressing that Cuomo used it on purpose to dog whistle Obama or that sayings with nasty racial baggage have become so much a part of the lexicon that people use them without thinking about their history.  

    I think this is ridiculous (none / 0) (#48)
    by txpublicdefender on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 04:10:34 PM EST
    I find all this piling on to be ridiculous.  The whole statement, quoted above, seems to make it quite clear that he is not referring to Obama or anyone else for that matter.  He is referring to spinning the reporters as opposed to having to meet and personally speak with the voters.  Maybe it was unwise to use "shuck and jive," but why should Hillary Clinton repudiate that?  I'm frankly sick of people having to repudiate what other people say.  Unless the person is an official part of her campaign, why does Clinton need to repudiate it?  Should she just repudiate everything racist ever said while she's at it?

    Parent
    Googling "Andrew Cuomo" (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 02:43:38 PM EST
    did not reveal him publicly supporting Hillary Clinton's Presidential nominee bid.  Of course, he was a cabinet member in Bill Clinton's admin.  You all got more for me to review?

    Um (none / 0) (#45)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 03:13:05 PM EST
    No. But it is true.

    Parent
    Repeat after me: (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 04:00:43 PM EST
    Bob and weave.  Bob and weave.  Bob and weave.  Bob and weave.  Bob and weave.  Bob and weave.  Bob and weave.  Bob and weave...

    Bob and weave (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 04:01:25 PM EST
    Not a bad sitcom on Fox.


    Parent
    Bob and Weave (none / 0) (#49)
    by cpinva on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 04:58:10 PM EST
    sounds like the name of a law firm! sorry jeralyn, low-hanging fruit. lol

    poor choice of words doesn't, by definition, equate to racism or racist tendencies. the term "shuck and jive" is historically associated with black entertainers, of the bill "bojangles" robinson era. a racial pejorative, it's possible young mr. cuomo isn't familiar with its etiology, it not being a very commonly used phrase.

    were that the case, one wonders how that particular phrase, vs "bob and weave", a more commonly used boxing terminology, would have been the first thing to come to his mind, in this interview. i've no clue.

    is mr. cuomo racist, and was this a not-so-veiled racist comment, directed specifically at sen. obama? beats me, and everyone else too. i don't read minds. BTD, please lend me your crystal ball, would you?

    who knows, perhaps he'd just finished watching an old shirley temple movie, starring the aforementioned mr. robinson, and that phrase just stuck out? i don't know.

    what i do know is that sen. clinton, all teeth gnashing to the contrary, is under no obligation to apologize for, or repudiate publicly, unless specifically asked her opinion, the unintentionally stupid mistakes of everyone else in the world, unless they're officially representing her.

    wherever would she find the time to be president?

    Parent

    Way to lose the "Bob" and weavers vote. (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 06:30:30 PM EST
    Make It Stop (none / 0) (#50)
    by BDB on Fri Jan 11, 2008 at 05:10:50 PM EST
    There is no way anyone is going to convince me that Bill or Hillary Clinton is racist.  Everything about their history - personal and political - refutes that notion.  I will never believe that Hillary Clinton meant to dis MLK in her remarks the other day.  Anyone who knows anything about her knows seeing him preach as a teenager was a transforming experience for her.  

    However, their advisors and supporters are completely fricking idiots and beyond tone deaf.  Via Talking Points Memo:

    An anonymous Clinton adviser made an interesting comment to The Guardian, explaining the difference between Hillary supporters and Obama supporters.

    "If you have a social need, you're with Hillary," the aide said. "If you want Obama to be your imaginary hip black friend and you're young and you have no social needs, then he's cool."

    You know, I don't even think the point he's trying to make has anything to do with race.  I think his point is that if you have needs that cry out for programs, then Clinton is your candidate, but if not, then Obama is appealing because of all his movement and inspiration stuff.  And yet, in an attempt to create some sort of memorable soundbite, he manages to sound condescending and idiotic and a million other things, none of them good.  

    As a Clinton supporter, I beg Hillary and Bill to tell her idiotic advisers - who have repeatedly almost lost this election for her - to shut the F up.  Really, the only reason she won NH was because she took control of her campaign.  She should learn from that and continue to keep control of it.  Because the people around her are incredibly stupid.