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Saturday Open Thread

Time for an open thread, you pick the topics.

Here's a few things I haven't gotten around to writing about:

  • Nevada County Dems are picking state delegates today. The delegates picked at their county caucuses aren't bound by their pledge and today's tally may or may not match the caucus results. More here.
  • Check out the new film, Taxi to the Dark Side, about the politics of torture. It tells the story of Dilawar, whom we've frequently written about.
    In December 2002 a young Afghan named Dilawar, proud of his new taxi, picked up three fares. Shortly afterwards he and his passengers were detained as Taliban sympathizers by American forces, and Dilawar – almost certainly an innocent bystander – was flown to the Bagram Air Force Base in Afghanistan. He died after a few days in detention there. Medical examiners reported that his legs, at the time of death, looked like they had been run over by a bus.

What are you reading about today?

< NBC's Shuster: No Regrets | Hillary Slams Obama Over Deceptive Ohio Mailers >
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  • Display: Sort:
    I just read this AP story (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:38:20 PM EST
    indicating how Obama could/would be attacked re his patriotism.  Warning:  really a hit piece.

    AP

    Ha! (none / 0) (#5)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:44:14 PM EST
    I was just about to post this. Note the byline - the infamous Nedra Pickler. It's obviously THAT TIME again.

    Parent
    "that time" (none / 0) (#7)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:46:05 PM EST
    wtf?

    Parent
    x (none / 0) (#16)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:03:29 PM EST
    Time for the really crappy journalists to begin filing really crappy pieces attacking Dems and supporting Republicans.

    Can't quite recall her particular schtick. Something about "so-and-so said X, but neglected to mention Y." X being a true, on-topic statement and Y being a questionable, tangential statement. Almost always against Dems.

    Parent

    sorry (none / 0) (#22)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:18:18 PM EST
    I read that wrong.  Knee jerked up so high I may have broken my nose.

    Yes, seems like it is that time...

    Parent

    Oh! (none / 0) (#25)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:26:00 PM EST
    I finally get why you said wtf. Furthest thing from my mind, believe me.

    Parent
    I have gathered, Mary (none / 0) (#42)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:17:50 PM EST
    and I'm sorry I got stroppy.  So much sexism lately that I am just hyper-sensitive.  

    Parent
    I think you are referring to NYT people (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 10:54:23 PM EST
    TImely open thread, no? (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:54:20 PM EST
    x (none / 0) (#17)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:04:20 PM EST
    Yep. It was on my local news page. I clicked on it, saw the byline, and almost choked.

    Parent
    BTW, I really don't remember too many (none / 0) (#23)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:23:33 PM EST
    people placing their hands over their hearts during the singing of the Star Spangled Banner.  WWII veterans maybe.

    Parent
    Nor I (none / 0) (#26)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:27:10 PM EST
    For the pledge, yes. Not for the national anthem.

    Parent
    gesh (1.00 / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 10:55:52 PM EST
    So two wrongs make a right??

    That figures coming from the Left.

    And thank those WWII vets that you aren't speaking German.

    Parent

    Republicans are stupid (none / 0) (#14)
    by Nasarius on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:59:24 PM EST
    The whole article is just dripping with idiocy, but this really got me:
    "The reason it hasn't been an issue so far is that we're still in the microcosm of the Democratic primary," said Republican consultant Roger Stone.
    Tip to Mr. Stone: don't use big words unless you know what they mean. "Microcosm" makes absolutely no sense in that context; if anything, it's the exact opposite of what he intends.

    Parent
    Wasn't Stone the architect of (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:24:10 PM EST
    the swiftboat Kerry campaign?

    Parent
    That's really mild (none / 0) (#28)
    by RalphB on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:31:32 PM EST
    to what will come before November.

    Parent
    Tavis Smiley (none / 0) (#2)
    by Kalkaino on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:40:52 PM EST
    ...is a blowhard and a suckup. Anybody who doubts this need only view his recent, nauseatingly fawning interview with Colin Powell. It may be a proof of Obama's good instinct that he stays away from the man.

    how did I know (none / 0) (#6)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:45:19 PM EST
    that the response to an aa not supporting Obama would be to tear him down?

    For those of you who missed it, JJ Jr has gone through with his threat and pushed an "eager young black man" to run against John Lewis.

    Lewis, for those who don't know, was literally almost beaten to death in his fight for civil rights and quest to combat voter disenfranchisement.  

    And now the people beating him with their fists, trying to force him to vote a certain way, have the same skin color as he does.

    Parent

    So? (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 10:57:33 PM EST
    McCain was beaten terribly in the Hanoi Hilton.

    Are you going to vote for him because of that??

    Parent

    Opinion (none / 0) (#3)
    by 1980Ford on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:42:49 PM EST
    Thanks Jeralyn (none / 0) (#4)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:42:58 PM EST
    for bringing up the State of the Black Union, which I'm watching now on C-Span.  I'm very curious if HRC will address the pink elephant in the room.  I think it's amazing that she's the only one of the four candidates for president (apologies to Ron Paul) who accepted in the invitation.  

    As for these death threats--this whole thing is getting ridiculous.  If I were BO I would address those overly-zealous supporters (and maybe tell JJ Jr to cool down too).

    Is it possible there will be a backlash b/c he didn't attend?  No one likes feeling like they're being taken for granted.  

    Watch it live (none / 0) (#12)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:58:00 PM EST
    CspanLink

    Parent
    oops (none / 0) (#13)
    by Stellaaa on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:59:06 PM EST
    Sorry (none / 0) (#8)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:47:11 PM EST
    I read on another blog there were death threats, but the article linked to doesn't go that far, so I take back those words.  Still, harassing his family crosses the line.

    And I don't think this is about Travis Smiley. BO chose not to attend a major AA event, held in New Orleans no less.      

    Thanks Kathy (none / 0) (#9)
    by NJDem on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:50:45 PM EST
    for adding that--it is shameful what is happening to John Lewis.

    And, someone had also mentioned that there are many AA's from NOLA who are now in Texas.  

    New around here... (none / 0) (#11)
    by K Lynne on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 01:57:58 PM EST
    ..and just wanted to say that as a moderate Republican (please hold the rotten tomatoes for now) I am really glad I found this place.  

    I've been looking for a place where I could hear discussions from a more liberal point of view, and it seems that the majority of places I've checked out (Kos, Democratic Underground, even the Politico blogs) seem to be frequented by many who seem to refuse to listen to other points of view, and discussions often seem to devolve fairly quickly into name-calling and obscenities.  I especially appreciate the fact that I don't often seem references to 'Shrillary' or 'McSlime' and such around here - One of my pet peeves ;-).

    For the time being I'm just going to hang around and learn...  

    K Lynne

    Hi there (none / 0) (#20)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:13:30 PM EST
    I'm old enough to remember and appreciate moderate Republicans. No rotten tomatoes from me. After all, you're almost an endangered species, and if liberals can embrace the bog turtle, they certainly can embrace the mod rep. :-)

    Parent
    Is there such a thing as a moderate (1.00 / 0) (#52)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 10:59:23 PM EST
    Democrat??

    If so, who would that be??

    Parent

    'Moderates' (none / 0) (#32)
    by K Lynne on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 03:27:46 PM EST
    Thanks...  I've never been compared to a bog turtle before... ;-).

    Actually, I'd imagine there are more moderate Republicans (or right-leaning independents - I'm mainly registered Repub because in my state independents can't vote in the primaries) around than you'd think - just as I'd imagine there are more moderate Dems than you'd guess by reading the news or political sites.  We're just too busy working, driving our kids to sports practices and school activities, and helping with homework to hang around much on the blogs.

    Unfortunately, the Rush Limbaughs and Cindy Sheehans of the world (apologies to any CS fans) are the ones who get all the press.  There seems to be much time devoted to the fanatics on either end, without much honest discussion regarding the concerns on the opposing side.  So far, this place seems to be much better at having civil discussions...

    K Lynne

    Parent

    x (none / 0) (#39)
    by Mary Mary on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:35:47 PM EST
    Oh, same here, about the primaries. But I'm a registered Dem, until April, anyway.

    Yes, I know how many of you non-blog, sensible people there are. I've canvassed for elections for many years.

    Parent

    Stories Like This One (none / 0) (#15)
    by KevinMc on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:00:47 PM EST
    Stories like this one which I'm providing a link to, remind me why it is important that a Democrat takes the White House in the General Election.  

    The story deals with a Lesbian couple, Janice Langbehn and Lisa Pond, who had been together for 18 years and had adopted three children together.  While on vacation in Miami, Lisa Pond collapsed and was rushed to the hospital.  Once at the hospital the hospital refused to accept medical information about Pond from Langbehn.  Langbehn was was informed that she was in an antigay city and state, and she could expect to receive no information or acknowledgment as family.  Langbehn nor the children where allowed to see Pond for nearly eight hours after they arrived at the hospital.  Soon after Pond''s death, Langbehn tried to get her death certificate in order to get life insurance and Social Security benefits for their children. She was denied both by the State of Florida and the Dade County Medical Examiner.

    Heres a link to the story:

    Dying Lesbian Partner Denied Access to Her

    Myself and my partner have been together for 16 years and stories like this both anger and frighten me.  Especially since this happened in Miami which is considered a "gay mecca" by many in the community.  I for one will support and throw every ounce of energy I have behind whichever Democrat, Hillary or Obama, wins the nomination.

    This election is personal.

    Wow. (none / 0) (#19)
    by lilburro on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:11:40 PM EST
    Thank you for sharing.  Indeed a sobering reminder of the importance of supporting Dems.

    Parent
    Was this a private hospital? (none / 0) (#27)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:29:10 PM EST
    This incident certainly underscores the fragility of a couple's status.  Even if protected their home state, they aren't legally protected in other states.  A state issue, say the politicians, dodging a bullet.

    Parent
    Private Hospital? (none / 0) (#40)
    by KevinMc on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:54:12 PM EST
    I'm not sure if it's a private hospital or not.  I'm just still angered that they wouldn't even let the children in the room for eight hours.  I'm going back over all the legal contracts we have and am going to make sure they are with us at all times.

    Parent
    Maybe i missed it (none / 0) (#18)
    by Jgarza on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:09:11 PM EST
    Tavis Smiley is receiving threats from Obama supporters

    But I didn't see any mention of threats.  There was criticism but not threats.  

    Read more closely (none / 0) (#21)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:13:51 PM EST
    Please, don't waste my time.

    "There's all this talk of hater, sellout and traitor," Smiley said to me in a telephone interview. Smiley even mentioned getting death threats, but wouldn't elaborate. He said his office has been flooded with angry e-mails. "I have family in Indianapolis. They are harassing my momma, harassing my brother. It's getting to be crazy," Smiley said.


    Parent
    Saying threats are from (none / 0) (#33)
    by fuzzyone on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 03:37:27 PM EST
    "Obama supporters" is the same kind thing the right does with regard to Muslims.  These people are nuts, they obviously don't represent Obama or anything he stands for and to suggest otherwise is another sign of the depths desperate Hillary supporters will go to.  Smiley should not have given these people credence and press by talking about them and Obama is right not to as well.

    Parent
    Comes from the top down (none / 0) (#43)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:19:27 PM EST
    Clark Hoyt seconds BTD on the McCain story (none / 0) (#31)
    by andgarden on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 02:40:26 PM EST
    here

    Four highly respected reporters in the Washington bureau worked for months on the story and were pressed repeatedly to get sources on the record and to find documentary evidence like e-mail. If McCain had been having an affair with a lobbyist seeking his help on public policy issues, and The Times had proved it, it would have been a story of unquestionable importance.

    But in the absence of a smoking gun, I asked Keller why he decided to run what he had.

    "If the point of the story was to allege that McCain had an affair with a lobbyist, we'd have owed readers more compelling evidence than the conviction of senior staff members," he replied. "But that was not the point of the story. The point of the story was that he behaved in such a way that his close aides felt the relationship constituted reckless behavior and feared it would ruin his career."

    I think that ignores the scarlet elephant in the room. A newspaper cannot begin a story about the all-but-certain Republican presidential nominee with the suggestion of an extramarital affair with an attractive lobbyist 31 years his junior and expect readers to focus on anything other than what most of them did. And if a newspaper is going to suggest an improper sexual affair, whether editors think that is the central point or not, it owes readers more proof than The Times was able to provide.




    The Rev. Al just whipped up (none / 0) (#34)
    by oldpro on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 03:50:22 PM EST
    the crowd by threatening "if the rules are changed" ... that seating WI or FLA and then Obama loses...that would be cheating AAs out of their 'win.'

    The crowd went nuts.  Clearly they did not respond to Jackson Lee's support for Hillary and her explanation.

    If women supported Hillary in the same %ages that blacks are supporting Obama, he wouldn't have a chance.  How fair is that?  Sauce. Goose. Gander?

    The horror of the CA Prisons (none / 0) (#35)
    by fuzzyone on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 03:57:08 PM EST
    is impossible to overstate.  I was at San Quentin recently and you can't imagine the conditions.  Its truly medieval.  The tiers are filthy, noisy, and smelly.  Most of the prisoners there are in the "reception center"  meaning they have just entered they system and have not yet been given a security classification.  There are two men in a tiny cell. There is a bunk bed and an area as long as the bed and about 2-3 feet wide.  Sink and toilet in the back.  That is it for two men. They get out twice a week to the yard at best.  The federal courts are slowly taking over the system and the budget crisis is forcing the governator to consider some early release programs and lightening up on some of the absurd technical parole violations that result in thousands of people being locked up and the cost of millions of dollars so there may be some hope for improvement.

    I recently heard, I think on NPR, (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 04:44:14 PM EST
    that many inmates who should be entitled to release on parole due to good time credits are, in fact, still in custody in CA and that releasing them would, of course, open up some space.  Not sure if that is correct info, however.

    Parent
    hillary will be in houston tonight. (none / 0) (#37)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:31:49 PM EST
    i am going to try and go. the problem is that people were waiting outside in large numbers for clinton, so i doubt i can even get it. mores the pity!

    ok, we are waiting for obama or michelle (none / 0) (#38)
    by hellothere on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 05:35:36 PM EST
    to step and with strong verbal comments put this type of behavior down. waiting! waiting! waiting!

    tavis has mentioned this before, (none / 0) (#41)
    by kangeroo on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 06:26:40 PM EST
    his experiencing massive resentment from the aa community for his criticism of obama...  from the times i've heard him talk about it on his show, it seemed like he was trying his best to compassionately assuage those folks--but without caving on principle, which he stated was demanding accountability from elected officials, including obama.  and i've heard and read about aa's everywhere, from supporters to superdelegates, getting grief for supporting clinton.  i really didn't think it would come to death threats.  am i the only one who's feeling seriously uneasy about this?

    Have you heard that John Lewis's (none / 0) (#44)
    by Kathy on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 09:22:54 PM EST
    seat is being challenged by one of the "energetic, young black men" JJ, Jr mentioned might seek to unseat members of the Black Caucus who do not fall into line behind Obama?

    Parent
    yes. i just sent a thank you letter to travis. (none / 0) (#46)
    by kangeroo on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 11:42:45 PM EST
    i feel both sick to my stomach and heartsick for the aa folks who are facing the worst sort of scurrilous garbage right now, just for defending a friend who's proven she actually cares about them!  i just can't understand how dems can not have a bad feeling about someone who brings out and even encourages the absolute worst in people the way that obama has.  i keep pinching myself, hoping i'll wake up from this nightmare in slow motion.

    Parent
    NYTimes (none / 0) (#45)
    by PlayInPeoria on Sat Feb 23, 2008 at 10:08:19 PM EST
    On a Roll Electorally, Obama Injects His Manner With a Bit of Cockiness

    Now, how is that for a headline. Seems the halo is a little slanted now days.

    Mr. Obamais on an electoral roll, polls show him pulling closer in Ohio and Texas, crowds show him the Big Celebrity Love, what's not to like? A touch of cockiness is discernable in his manner now; he is like a gambler convinced his every dice roll will come up double sixes.

    And of course he dad to take a shot at Hillary....

    Then again, he has that lead and perhaps it is more fun playing the tease. In Edinburg, Tex., a town one consonant short of its namesake city, Mr. Obama briefly stuck his head through a blue curtain at the far end of the press room.

    "Crank it up, guys," he yelled to reporters bent over their laptops. "Words matter. Don't listen to Hillary."

    To which he added: "That's a joke."

    A reporter asked a question. The candidate smiled. And he disappeared from sight.

    Link

    spending more time with voters... (none / 0) (#47)
    by tree on Sun Feb 24, 2008 at 01:02:53 AM EST
    If Obama couldn't attend because he had to "spending more time with the voters in Texas and Ohio" then why is it that Clinton had time to attend the SOBU? And why did Obama have time to helicopter to a meeting with Edwards just a few days before the Wisconsin vote, but can't spare any time 10 days before TX and Ohio? It was a poor excuse.