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Hillary Addresses Obama's Race Speech

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:45:38 PM EST
Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama (all tags)
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Via TPM and Oliver Willis, Hillary Clinton was just on CNN and provided this statement about Barack Obama's race speech.

"I did not have a chance to see or to read yet Sen. Obama's speech. But I'm very glad that he gave it. It's an important topic. Issues of race and gender in America have been complicated throughout our history, and they are complicated in this primary campaign.

"There have been detours and pitfalls along the way. But we should remember that this is an historic moment for the Democratic Party, and for our country. We will be nominating the first African-American or woman for the Presidency of the United States, and that is something that all Americans can and should celebrate."

Oliver, a staunch Obama supporter, says "Good on her." If you have more to say on the speech or Hillary's reaction, you can do so here.

Update: A reader writes in that Obama's speech today is similar to one given by Bill Clinton in 1995 commemorating the Million Man March.

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    Hillary Addresses Obama's Race Speech | 205 comments (205 topical)

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    Obama's minister losing Independents (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:53:42 PM EST
    and Republican moderates, according to CBS poll -- more than a third of Independents alone say they view Obama less favorably now, because of his minister.  These probably are the likely voters whose support has dropped so fast in the last few days, as seen in the Gallup tracking poll, too, that puts Clinton ahead again.  So does Rasmussen, I saw?  (But I put a lot more credence in Gallup's tracking.)

    Btw, interesting that Zogby on a local show in my state said that the Dems will nominate neither Obama nor Clinton but will find a compromise candidate.  Again, it's Zogby, even less credible than Rasmussen.  But that it is being talked about. . . .

    Frustrating (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:02:20 PM EST
    I ask again - why didn't this stuff come out last December?  It clearly was going to resonate with a large segment of the electorate, so why is it news NOW when Obama is the de facto nominee?  Why is he only getting vetted when it is almost too late to do anything about it?

    Why would I not be surprised to find out the RNC sat on these video tapes for months while laughing gleefully at folks tearing down Clinton?

    Parent

    Why Didn't The People Who Encouraged (5.00 / 2) (#122)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:13:17 PM EST
    Obama to run a) vet him more carefully or b) not understand this could be a major problem or c.) at the very least suggest that Obama change churches before he became a candidate?

    Parent
    They did, MO Blue. (5.00 / 1) (#186)
    by oldpro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:32:39 PM EST
    Both a and b.  As for c, who knows?

    The thing is, you and I do not know what the real bottom-line motives of the 'draft Obama committee' may be.

    We know they went looking for someone to take out the Clintons and came up with Obama...we now know who they are.

    What we don't know is just how cynical these old envious pols are...is it truly enough for them to take down the Clintons even if their candidate loses the White House?  In other words, did they REALLY expect to win with Obama in the general?  Somehow, I doubt it.

    Parent

    No wonder.... (none / 0) (#152)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:31:54 PM EST
    every candidate with a chance sucks...with all this vetting, disqualifying, and polishing.

    Am I the only one who would vote for an alcoholic atheist with a hunchback if they had great ideas, integrity, and were ready and able to rise to the occasion?

    Parent

    NYT story almost a year ago (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:08:53 PM EST
    on Obama's minister laid it all out.  Media bandwagon theory means the rest of the press always jumps on an NYT story.  Not this time.  That is so unusual that it tells me much was going on behind the scenes to kill stories that could hurt Obama -- but that never can go on forever.  So once past the planned date for cinching the nomination, Super Tuesday, the lid had to start coming off. . . .

    Parent
    Zogby (none / 0) (#101)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:01:07 PM EST
    one was funny.  Let's see... Dean?  USAToday/Gallup 14-16 Obama up 7.  Gallup 15-17 Clinton up 3.  There was some data on the front page at MYDD.  Had the meter with the video.  The lines go down for Dems/Indies/Repubs.

    Parent
    Rasmussen (none / 0) (#131)
    by OxyCon on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:19:18 PM EST
    may be partisan, but their polls are tend to be reliable, especially compared to Zogby's.

    Parent
    It's a bird, it's a plane... (none / 0) (#140)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:24:25 PM EST
    It's...duh duh-duh duh...Super Gore!!!

    The Super Delegates have spoken!!:)

    I wonder what the polls would say if Obama dropped his friend to make his campaign run smoother...I know it would make me think you're pretty low.

    Parent

    Are you speaking of his minister, the one (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:31:15 PM EST
    Obama dropped from his campaign last Friday?  I'm sorry that it makes you think of Obama as pretty low (as I attempt to read your use of "you're").

    Parent
    That is pretty low.... (none / 0) (#158)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:35:24 PM EST
    I didn't know he dropped Wright from the campaign.

    Dropping him as a friend alltogether to please the "outraged" masses and become more "electable" would have been a lot lower.


    Parent

    Today was a good day for Democrats. (5.00 / 1) (#80)
    by sweetthings on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:53:44 PM EST
    Obama gave a truly excellent speech without attacking Clinton, and Clinton gave a gracious response (and speech of her own) without attacking Obama.

    It's nice to see the circular firing squad cease, if only for a day.

    Disagree; raising Ferraro again was not good (5.00 / 4) (#93)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:57:09 PM EST
    with a lot of us with longer memories.  Unwise and unnecessary for him to do, as with the comment about his white grandmother.  Did anybody else get singled out again by him, other than older white women?

    Parent
    Without attacking Clinton? (5.00 / 3) (#107)
    by americanincanada on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:02:36 PM EST
    Not sure what speech you watched because he certainly took some not so subtle swipes at Clinton as well as Ferraro.

    Parent
    If That Is The Case, Then Didn't Obama (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:34:26 PM EST
    depict his grandma as somewhat racist? Older white women (Hillary's key demo) linked to grandma and her attitudes?  

    Only if you think Jesse Jackson is racist (none / 0) (#202)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 07:20:13 AM EST
    "There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved." Jesse Jackson

    Obama seems to equate fear of black street crime with putting forth the notion that the US government deliberately used the AIDS virus to kill black people.  

    Parent

    This speech was not (5.00 / 7) (#167)
    by Dancing Bear on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:49:14 PM EST
    a celebration of racial unity.  It was a damage control staged event. Coincidentally right down the block from where Hillary was giving a speech. Anybody know who scheduled the space first?

    This was not done to further a cause (other than a nomination). It was done to quiet a restless public.

    I am apalled that he "could no more distance himself from his Pastor than he could from his white grandmother who raised him". WTF? I would toss my Pastor out of a twenty story building before I would defame the person who raised me and gave me my bright future in this world.

    I applaud the person who pointed out that he seems to single out older white women.  Grandma, Hillary, Geraldine Ferraro? If he wants to look at population statistics he will find that may be unwise given 51% of the population is female and since there are way more white women than black women his vote tally could be strongly affected in a GE.

    It does not matter why a person is a biggot.  If they are then they have no business being counsel to the potential next President of the United States. He better distance himself from this biggot.

    I happen to have very open discussions with people of color because both they and I want to have open relationships based on honest understanding of the people we have in our lives.  If he never has then he can speak for himself. It's not a dirty little secret to those of us who don't subscribe to racial bias.

    Hillary is a total class act and I am making another contribution to her campaign.  She is integrity. Not a crazy old white lady. Or any of the  other names she is called daily.

    I say (none / 0) (#183)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:15:46 PM EST
    BRAVO!

    Parent
    Why do we need to transcend race and gender? (5.00 / 4) (#177)
    by marirebel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:05:22 PM EST
    I think we need to inhabit race and gender in order to deal with the very evident racism and misogyny in this Country.  I have never found the call to an overarching unity that seeks to recuperate difference compelling.  Instead, let's learn to live with difference, understanding that we are all interrelated.

    Rev. Wright exhibited extreme sexism in his remarks about Senator Hillary Clinton.  Senator Obama has never addressed these hate-filled remarks. His shout out to white women trying to break the glass ceiling in today's speech was just troubling.  He supposes white women are a priviledged group hunting down that last barrier, "the glass ceiling" to untold riches, fame and power.  He assumes women work in a neutral, hate-free environment.  Not so.  The misogyny exhibited during this campaign has been vile and vitriolic to the point of being scary.  Senator Clinton has been constantly and unfairly criticized, hounded and villified, and I see these behaviors as directed at every women who dares to step out of place in this Country.  Senator Obama also seems to be unaware of the feminization of poverty, and the fact that significant numbers of white women are nowhere close to the glass ceiling, but are instead single mothers, struggling at a minimum wage job, without benefits--about 37% of single mother families live below the poverty line, and about 47% of these families are white.      

    Senator Obama's speech may have been good in some respects, but I do not see that he understands the significance of misogyny.  A truly brave speech would have tackeled the interlocking problems of sexism and racism, but then Senator Obama wouldn't want to turn-off those men voting for him only because he is the alternative to a woman.  I guess, for him, some sexism is good.    

    Oh my. (5.00 / 2) (#188)
    by lentinel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 08:48:05 PM EST
    OK.

    But why does Hillary have to keep saying how wonderful BO is?

    The best O can muster is that Hillary is "likable enough".

    She says how thrilled she is to be in his presence.

    I can hardly stand to look at him anymore.

    The fact remains (5.00 / 3) (#192)
    by ChrisO on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:04:15 PM EST
    that the only reason Obama gave this speech is because he was in full-out dmaage control. If the Wright thing hadn't blown up, he still wouldn't be talking about race.

    And he is the only one who could start the conversation. Can you imagine the reaction on Kos or TPM if, out of the blue, Hillary had said "I think it's time we had a discussion about race"? They'd be after her with sharpshooters.

    As for those who have been saying that Hillary needs to step up and meet Obama halfway on the subject, or show some support for the issues he raised, she tried to defend him against the Muslim rumors on 60 Minutes, and look where that got her. If she won't give them a big FU, I will.

    The thing that really bugs me is how so many Obama supporters equate oratory with greatness. Obama offered not a word about how he would address these issues. He said there's a lot of anger in the black community, some of it justified, and a lot of resentment in the white community, some of it justified. Raise your hand if you didn't already know this.

    Hillary, as usual, was classy. (4.80 / 5) (#1)
    by MarkL on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:48:01 PM EST


    I expect no less from her. (4.80 / 5) (#2)
    by dk on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:52:14 PM EST
    Throughout this whole campaign Hillary has been much more gracious to Obama than he has been to her.  

    Not To Mention (3.00 / 2) (#5)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:58:49 PM EST
    More gracious than her supporters.

    Parent
    Some Of Her Supporters (5.00 / 2) (#7)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:01:42 PM EST
    Sorry, obviously many of her supporters share her grace.

    Parent
    i agree with your take. (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by cy street on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:04:46 PM EST
    clinton's supporters are a gracious bunch.  i would add spunky, resolute and thoughtful.

    Parent
    is this some sort of cy ops? (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:09:21 PM EST
    forget it.  it wont work.
    we are surly and opinionated.  and dont you forget it.

    Parent
    I Said Some (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:10:20 PM EST


    Parent
    and dont you forget it (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:11:28 PM EST


    Parent
    You forgot cute (none / 0) (#10)
    by Marvin42 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:06:16 PM EST
    Darn cute. :)

    Parent
    For their age. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:09:18 PM EST


    Parent
    ouch. (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by cy street on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:13:48 PM EST
    it is to soon to move on to age discrimination.  we need at least a week on race.

    to be continued.

    Parent

    Don't make me call your mom. (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by oldpro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:56:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Say it out loud (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by litigatormom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:06:17 PM EST
    I'm middle-aged and I'm proud!

    Parent
    Moxie (none / 0) (#83)
    by Stellaaa on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:54:37 PM EST
    I want to revive that word...we have moxie.  

    Parent
    agreed. (none / 0) (#11)
    by cy street on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:09:06 PM EST
    i live with a hot one.

    Parent
    Both candidates (5.00 / 3) (#30)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:18:42 PM EST
    are more gracious than some of their supporters.

    Parent
    That's For Sure (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:26:35 PM EST


    Parent
    Robert Burns (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:54:55 PM EST
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion:
    What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
    An' ev'n devotion!

    I'll be glad when the primary is over and we can get down to business of defeating the real enemy - the GOP.

    Parent

    anonymous (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:57:51 PM EST
    There once were two cats of Kilkenny/Each thought there was one cat too many/So they fought and they fit, and they scratched and they bit/Till excepting their nails and the tips of their tails/Instead of two cats there weren't any

    Parent
    Thanks For That (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:00:04 PM EST
    Although far from an being an expert, I always love reading, especially hearing,  Burns.

    Parent
    Hearing Burns works best for me. (none / 0) (#109)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:03:27 PM EST


    Parent
    Good call Molly... (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:06:22 PM EST
    For those of us that don't believe that the Democrats are the antidote to our governmental ailments, there is no foreseeable end to this madness...

    Damn, that's kinda depressing.

    Parent

    And much, much more so than some of her (none / 0) (#14)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:10:15 PM EST
    progressive opponents.  I keep seeing the following argument coming from them:  "She campaigning against Obama and so she's racist and ugly and covered in warts ... ."  

    It's getting beyond freakish.  

    Parent

    I read somewhere today that (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:13:21 PM EST
    Clinton should have come to Wright's defense.  Amazing.

    Parent
    Hillary should not touch this (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:18:19 PM EST
    with a borrowed 10 foot pole.
    on the other hand, it would have been gracious.
    the fact is, there is a lot of truth in what the old coot says.  we may not like it but it doesnt change a thing. and he could have been defended in some respects.
    and I would just like to say again for the rolled eyes I perceived the first time I said it.
    use the google before you condemn the man for saying  the AIDS virus may not be naturally occuring.
    and dont give me personal offense.
    no one reading this has lost more people to AIDS than I have including two former partners.
    I can talk about this.


    Parent
    Yes, Hillary can't do anything (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:05:40 PM EST
    right.  

    I'm pretty sad, in fact, about what's going on.  I didn't expect to see progessives get so splintered and I'm worried that it's going to make us all less credible.

    Parent

    She actually (4.75 / 4) (#3)
    by americanincanada on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:54:06 PM EST
    gave those comments this morning just after Obama's speech. CNN covered it live.

    The best part was after her speech/presser, when a reporter asked if Hillary thought Obama did enough to denounce Wright. She "that's a question that needs to be directed to him."

    The crowd and reporters applauded her.

    and they will be (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 04:57:59 PM EST
    after looking at the FOX NEWS website it looks about as likely they are going to let this story go as I am likely to pass by an unattended chocolate chip cookie.

    i.e.

    Williams, a FOX News analyst, questioned why Obama allowed himself to remain publicly associated with Wright. He said Obama did not address the "judgment and character" issues that he's running on.

    "I think he had to take responsibility ... and that's what he didn't do," Williams said.

    But CitizenJane.com Editor Patricia Murphy said it's too late for Obama to try to divorce himself completely from Wright.

    "There's no way he didn't know the nature of that church. He knows what goes on there, both good and bad. If he were to denounce this church and leave this church right now, it would look like nothing more than political gamesmanship, and for somebody who is selling himself as an honest broker and trying to paint Hillary Clinton as someone cold and calculating, that will be totally unproductive," Murphy said. "The horse has left the barn on that."

    Parent

    I listened to a segment on David Gregory's (5.00 / 1) (#134)
    by litigatormom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:20:47 PM EST
    new show, "Road to the White House," in which Tweety (who called the speech "worthy of Lincoln") asked Rachel Maddow and Eugene Robinson (both of whom lean very strongly pro-Obama and anti-Clinton) whether the speech was enough to "put the issue" behind Obama.

    Rachel Maddow said yes. She thought the controversy about Wright was done. Robinson -- who has been not only critical, but caustic, towards Clinton -- was more skeptical.

    I think Robinson is being more clear-eyed here. But Clinton gave the exact right response -- she should not be opining about how successful Obama has or hasn't been on that score.  It's not for her to decide.  It's for the voters.

    Parent

    clinton's tone is refreshing. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by cy street on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:01:10 PM EST
    the answer to the question is clear.  he opened an inter-generational dialogue about race in america long over due.  

    Parent
    I don't think so; too late for that (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:11:55 PM EST
    after the Obama campaign has made clear that whites attempting to discuss race, no matter how many years  they have worked to improve racial disparities, may be called a racist.

    I work in an environment in which discourse on racial issues has functioned well for years.  But not now.  The discourse has shut down -- and a wishy-washy speech today will not do anything to reassure anyone that it's safe to start again now.

    Parent

    Bingo (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by lambert on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:13:24 PM EST
    Step 1: Smear the Clintons as being racist.

    Step 2: Call for an honest conversation on race.

    I don't think so.

    Of course, in the world of the Village, there is no Step 1. Then again, fewer and fewer people believe a word that they say.

    Parent

    just words (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by popsnorkle on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:06:37 PM EST
    This is close to how I felt reading the speech.  I kept thinking that if he really wanted unity and to get beyond this divide he should have come out strongly against all the accusations of racism by his supporters and surrogates from the start.  Without that it seemed like just words to me.  

    Parent
    As far as it pertains (5.00 / 3) (#20)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:12:00 PM EST
    To getting him elected, I suppose he did.


    Parent
    What (none / 0) (#161)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:41:16 PM EST
    exactly does it mean an "intergenerational dialogue about race?"  Are the boomers racist?  I don't get it.

    Parent
    It could mean.... (none / 0) (#164)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:45:36 PM EST
    that there is a generational gap in how we view race and sex, racism and sexism.

    Parent
    but...is there? (none / 0) (#173)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:59:02 PM EST
    Obama is a boomer for God's sake.  As for the 18 to 35 crew, who knows?

    Parent
    That's me.... (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:10:54 PM EST
    18-35...I don't think we have the scars the older generation have, and the accompanying hang-ups.

    I'd bet the younger you are, the less statements like those made by Wright offend you.  The youth don't gasp and walk on eggshells as much I think.

    My opinion, could be way off.

    Parent

    I'm in that crew as well (none / 0) (#185)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:29:15 PM EST
    personally I don't think it helps that our generation has been fed incessant Beatles-soundtracked idealizations of the 60s...the 2nd Greatest Generation.

    I mean, c'mon.  Ziggy Stardust!  

    Parent

    I'm not gonna knock.... (none / 0) (#205)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 10:07:24 AM EST
    the golden age of music.  I think the problem is we haven't paid close enough attention to the lyrics of the Beatles and Kinks:)

    Parent
    Obama's not really a boomer ... (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 10:07:46 PM EST
    Douglas Coupland who popularized the term "Generation X" would place Obama squarely in that camp.  He claimed it was anyone born between 1958-66.  Obama was born in 1961.

    Others push the date further forward.

    It's interesting that when you look at exit Polls one of the groups he's struggled with most are people his own age.  He usually loses women his age.  And often barely gets men of this age.

    Parent

    My less than gracious reaction. (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Fabian on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:06:11 PM EST
    Well, now Obama will know what it feels like to have the media on his case.

    Elsewhere, people are crying out that the media has been obsessing over the Obama/Wright kerfuffle even though it isn't that significant.

    Maybe they thought the Clinton Rules only applied to the Clintons?  Guess again.  The media loves controversy - Clinton, Britney, Spitzer, and now....Wright.

    Who knows?  Maybe hordes of angry Obama supporters can get the media to change their ways.  What are the odds.

    Parent

    Since we're transcending race, maybe (none / 0) (#18)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:11:41 PM EST
    the media can get transcendent too.

    Parent
    Maybe. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Fabian on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:31:18 PM EST
    But the media has a lousy track record and the New Media/Blogosphere had me hoping there for a while, but I'm less optimistic than I used to be about blogs and bloggers in general.

    Parent
    I was in fact trying to be (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:11:21 PM EST
    ironic.  I'm finding the coverage of the speech ominous in fact.  I watched Larry King, which had Wolf Blitzer as a substitute.  They have shows where they try a bit to get some  sort of real discussion going.  And then they have shows where people sit around and pretend to disagree but really support the same idea.

    I thought that for the speech they put on the latter sort, and it seemed condescending to me.

    Gosh, I hope I'm wrong about all this.

    Parent

    I was amazed (none / 0) (#99)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:00:48 PM EST
    just now, watching some coverage of the speech on NBC.  It was covered in a strangely obituary-esque way.  I'm not kidding!  I really liked the speech.  But it does take away from the power of his points to have it be the center of a news cycle, as it is right now, soundbited instead of listened to.  The media seems to be pushing through a "did it do enough re: Wright" meme ...and lingering on the question, instead of Obama's explanation, doesn't seem great for him.  There's a lot that needs to be said on race, and Obama did a great job saying a lot of it, but it is also being viewed as a political moment, of it being good or bad for his campaign.  To me he seemed like a leader, but the media has more of a 'cornered man' frame.

    Parent
    Really, I've found the coverage on (none / 0) (#144)
    by litigatormom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:25:47 PM EST
    MSNBC to be highly laudatory -- as I noted above, Tweety said the speech was worthy of Lincoln.  Most of the commentators have been discussing it as a landmark speech that was honest and brave and personal, etc.  Even those who were skeptical of whether this one speech will "put the matter behind him" thought the speech was amazing. Tweety said that by emphasizing his mixed heritage, Obama showed that he is "one of all of us."

    I'm not getting a sense that anyone on MSNBC thinks Obama is going down. To the contrary, the MSNBCommentariat appears to be drafting the eulogy for Clinton's campaign in light of the failure of the MI and FLA re-vote proposals.


    Parent

    No - Kos and MSNBC (none / 0) (#39)
    by Josey on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:26:10 PM EST
    are already paving the way for Hillary's defeat.
    The media is letting her down slowly but the whole wide world knows she can't win. It's just a matter of time before Hillary sees the light.
    And on and on...


    Parent
    Yes, but once Hillary is gone (5.00 / 3) (#50)
    by Fabian on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:33:03 PM EST
    then what?

    The media rarely plays nice.

    Parent

    Can I mention Bill? (4.75 / 4) (#26)
    by zyx on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:16:12 PM EST
    There was a long interview with him on Greta van whozit's show last night on Fox.  The Obama/Wright flap came up briefly, and the "differences" between Obama and Hillary and whatever heat there was between the campaigns, and he was really at ease and very classy, I thought--very gracious.  No sniping at Obama.  Big man.

    I saw that too (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:17:40 PM EST
    it was good.  I only watched because he was on.
    but man, is Greta going after Obama or what.


    Parent
    How quickly we forget.... (5.00 / 8) (#60)
    by oldpro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:39:53 PM EST
    check out Wiki's list of Clinton Initiatives in the 90s...one major initiative was: a national challenge to end the racial divide in America, the One America Initiative.  1997 or so...there were four reports re 'progress'.

    Clinton tried long before Barack Obama and the progressive ignorance about the Clintons' history re race is infuriating and dishonest.


    Parent

    That can't be possible. (5.00 / 6) (#82)
    by vicsan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:54:15 PM EST
    Bill Clinton is a racist. Mr. Hope's campaign insinuated as much, so it must be true.

    Who is that racist guy who has raised millions of $$$$$ for AIDS relief in Africa? For AA people? Didn't that racist guy start the Clinton Global Initiative to fight AIDS in AFRICA and around the world? Now that same racist is helping AAs in NOLA with his organization?

    Hmmm.....something doesn't mesh here. :(

    Parent

    Check out this speech from President Clinton (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by OxyCon on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:17:27 PM EST
    President Clinton gave a tremendous speech on race relations back in 1997, where he was marking the "Million Man March".
    It wasn't given as a way to salvage a campaign and it wasn't done out of convenience either.
    It was given because it came from the heart.
    Frankly, Obama's speech pales in comparison.

    H/T Taylor Marsh

    Parent

    My point (5.00 / 4) (#171)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:54:09 PM EST
    exactly.  IMO Obama is pushing the perception that no one has really tried to address the grievances of blacks, especially Bill Clinton, so that he can present himself as the only hope of unity.  Now I'll probably be scrubbed.

    Parent
    Yes, she is one classy lady! (4.50 / 2) (#16)
    by NJDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:10:46 PM EST
    Sorry, I missed most of the earlier threads on the speech--but I would like to note that I was disappointed he never (unless I missed something) discussed sexism.  And, him throwing his living grandma under the bus left a very bad taste in my mouth.

    Overall, good speech, but I don't think it will change many minds.  

    Oh, and is anyone (other than Fox) going to pick up on the contradictions in what he said Friday and today re: being present for some of those 'hateful' sermons?  

    grandma under the bus (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:12:28 PM EST
    BA haha
    I dont think that was his intention but it did sort of seem that way didnt it?

    Parent
    This Is Bound To Start A National Movement (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:24:52 PM EST
    of "Grandma's Against Being Thrown Under The Bus." I can picture them  marching on the Democratic convention in protest with appropriate signs. "Stop Throwing Grandma's Under The Bus to Protect Crazy Uncles NOW."

    Parent
    We need a "Million Grandas March" (none / 0) (#139)
    by vicsan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:22:54 PM EST
    to the convention. ;)

    Parent
    since they are probably (none / 0) (#143)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:25:40 PM EST
    not that good at walking, they should come on Harleys.
    you want to throw ME under the bus?


    Parent
    Dressed in black leather (none / 0) (#148)
    by vicsan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:29:12 PM EST
    with their big, burly Grandsons (who LOVE them and would never throw THEM under the bus) in tow. LOL!

    Parent
    Not All Grandmas Are Ancient (none / 0) (#178)
    by MO Blue on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:05:34 PM EST
    unless you consider 40 something as ancient.

    The Harley thing with black leather might be kinda cool though.

    Parent

    That should read: Million GRANDMAS March (none / 0) (#145)
    by vicsan on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:26:37 PM EST
    sigh sorry.

    Parent
    He already (5.00 / 4) (#66)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:45:33 PM EST
    gave up on the old lady vote.

    Parent
    Throwing Grandmother under the bus (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:32:20 PM EST
    was really creepy.  If you already adore Obama, it will I'm sure move you to rapturous tears.  For others, I don't see how it changes any minds.

    Didn't take Brit Hume long to zero in on the contradictions at all.


    Parent

    What A Characterization (1.00 / 1) (#54)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:35:10 PM EST
    Nasty if you ask me. Quite vile to even suggest that he intentionally killed his grandma.

    Parent
    It's a well known phrase (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by tree on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:01:58 PM EST
    and it doesn't mean "to kill someone". Do you really not know the mean of the phrase?

    Parent
    Really? (1.00 / 1) (#112)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:05:42 PM EST
    Didn't mean anything by it? BS... Your choice of words, and to not take responsibility for it is even worse.

    Parent
    choice of words? (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:11:48 PM EST
    what would be the gracious way to put that?

    Parent
    Didn't see you make an issue of this (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:13:00 PM EST
    phrase when it was repeatedly used in earlier threads on this speech.  Why not?

    Parent
    I don't even knowwhat you are talking about now (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by tree on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:26:43 PM EST
    I didn't say "didn't mean anything by it". I said it was a well known phrase and doesn't mean what you implied it meant. It wasn't my choice of words, it was RalphB's. If you want me to take responsibility for his words, fine.

    Here's a link to "throw under the bus".

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#91)
    by RalphB on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:56:55 PM EST


    Parent
    Tell me you're being sarcastic squeaky.... (none / 0) (#184)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:17:40 PM EST
    in a reference to people getting worked up over the "and the kitchen sink", another common figure of speech.  It's so hard to tell these days.

    If I say "rule of thumb", I'm not talking about beating my wife...I wanna make that clear right now in case I get pinched by the pc police:)

    Parent

    Poor Granny (none / 0) (#110)
    by OxyCon on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:03:54 PM EST
    Does it help Obama paint his Gandma in a bad light in order to soften Rev Wright?
    Isn't Obama saying that he's been surrounded by unsavory type people?
    Will that make a good campaign commercial?

    Parent
    A bad light? (none / 0) (#137)
    by ItsGreg on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:22:35 PM EST
    I listened to the speech as it was given, and I've read the text. I don't think he presented his grandmother in a bad light at all.

    He said: I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother - a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe. These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love.

    I think it's very brave of his grandmother to confess something shameful like that...and it says a lot about their relationship that she was able to say it to him.

    The sad fact is a LOT of good and decent white folks secretly harbor some racist thoughts or beliefs. The same is true of a LOT of good and decent black people. So long as we keep those thoughts and beliefs secret we'll never get beyond them.

    To acknowledge that his grandmother is flawed is hardly painting her in a bad light. Who amongst us isn't flawed? It's just acknowledging that she's human.

    Parent

    It is a far better thing we do (5.00 / 2) (#147)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:28:39 PM EST
    to let people admit their own imperfections.  

    It is good for Obama to admit that he is an imperfect man.  It is not good for him to start naming all the other imperfect people around us.  This could set a record for overly long speeches, even for him.

    It is especially not good to publicly call out as imperfect the person who raised him, after all.  Ask yourself what it really added to the speech?  I reread it, deleting that part, and it made no difference.  So the question always to be asked is:

    Who was that for?

    Parent

    Where did his grandmother (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by SarahinCA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:30:03 PM EST
    confess any such thing to 350 million Americans?

    Parent
    Yeah, bad light (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by OxyCon on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:32:45 PM EST
    I don't think it does Obama's Granny any good for him to tell the world she's afraid of Black men and she uses racial epithets.
    I think he maligned her reputation in order to soften the bigoted rhetoric of Rev Wright.
    Sorry if that offends your Obama sensibilities.

    Parent
    Well said greg... (none / 0) (#174)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:59:51 PM EST
    I fear we still can't talk about these things.  

    Everybodys too busy getting offended and ostracizing the offender, instead of attempting to understand.  Instead of asking why did you say "god damn america" or "he wouldn't still be in the race if he wasn't black" and getting a dialogue going, the response is "you said what!" "you're finished!" "you're evil!"

    Sad, sad, sad...

    Parent

    Read It Again (none / 0) (#22)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:12:33 PM EST
    He did mention sexism as one of the things we need to overcome.

    Parent
    He mentioned (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by americanincanada on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:14:52 PM EST
    sexism only as an aside in the speech. This was about race and only insofar as it gets him nominated.

    Parent
    In his defense (none / 0) (#29)
    by dianem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:18:29 PM EST
    The purpose of this speech was to deal with racial questions, and he did it. The speech was too long as it is, and it would have been painfully longer if he had addressed sexism as well.

    Parent
    Well (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by ColumbiaDuck on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:39:28 PM EST
    I would say that the "theme" of the speech was about overcoming divisions in our society.  Considering that gender-based attacks have been at least as prevelant this silly season, it would have been appropriate to discuss it.  

    Parent
    I too (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Wile ECoyote on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:53:59 PM EST
    was looking for more.  Specifically, the National League, American League differences.  They need to be addressed.

    Parent
    Designated hitter, winner of All Star (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:01:36 PM EST
    gets home field advantage. Should there be instant replay in baseball?

    Parent
    imho (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by inclusiveheart on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:53:25 PM EST
    The focus he chose was a mistake - speaking from a purely tactical political point of view.

    Look at the list of things that most voters feel are the most important issues of the day.  Race is not on that list.

    I know it was a pipedream to think that maybe Obama could be elected before he had to go this deep into this extremely complex (and yet simple) issue, but I had hoped from the outset that his campaign did not end up focusing solely on the ails of racial division in this country.  I had hoped that his ascendency would show people who judge others based on the color of their skin that their fears are unwarranted.  Wright blew that big time.  I had hoped that Clinton's ascendency would do the same for women.  I had hoped that we could transcend.

    Now the Clintons have been labeled wrongly as racists along with a whole host of other people who are not.  Now it seems that anyone who challenges Obama - no matter how legitimately - is immediately targeted as a racist.  Now it seems that anyone who would dare to consider Obama's opponent is a racist.  Now it seems like this primary contest is about nothing but race.  Healthcare, the War in Iraq, the Economy, and other important issues are on the back burner because we have to spend our time talking about race rather than doing anything about the poor conditions that breed and heighten racial tensions.  Its a damn shame too because all I ever wanted for the people of this country is a fair shake and a level playing field.  

    Parent

    Subject of Wright's comments (none / 0) (#115)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:06:18 PM EST
    the subjects of his speeches covered several issues.  It wasn't just one of tone.  I was looking to see if he could address the issues.  I have read the speech twice, I didn't find the issues addressed.

    Parent
    I thought the purpose of the speech (none / 0) (#187)
    by ding7777 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:47:13 PM EST
    was for him to explain why he still chose Rev Wright as a pastor/mentor after hearing Wright sermons.  

    I guess Wright's sermons didn't make him cringe as much as grandma's comments did.

    Parent

    That Comment (none / 0) (#36)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:24:52 PM EST
    Is silly. Obviously you have not read the speech. And if you have I feel sorry for you that you feel compelled to trivialize it whether or not you care about the guy. There has not been a speech like it, that I have heard, for a long time that addresses racism in America so directly.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#166)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:46:34 PM EST
    I just don't understand why we have to have Barack Obama lecturing DEMOCRATS on racism.  AS a person who's spent years studying labor history and the relationship to free institutions, I find it offensive that he seems to think there hasn't been a sincere dialogue about this for at least 50 years.  

    Parent
    OK (none / 0) (#194)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:24:37 PM EST
    I can see why you would be offended.

    Parent
    Quote? I listened for it, and now I looked (none / 0) (#31)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:19:57 PM EST
    through the transcript for it and don't see it.

    Parent
    I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by tree on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:27:15 PM EST
    but I think it boiled down to one phrase:

    "...the white woman struggling to break the glass ceiling...."

    Don't quite know why he had to limit to white women.

    Parent

    Maybe (none / 0) (#44)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:30:17 PM EST
    Because black women can't even see the ceiling from where they are standing.

    Parent
    If he thinks that then (none / 0) (#88)
    by tree on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:55:56 PM EST
    he has a very low opinion of his own wife.

    Parent
    What A Idiotic (none / 0) (#104)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:01:49 PM EST
    Thing to say. Do you think that black women and white women have the same ceiling? If you do you must be living in another country.

    Parent
    some of them do (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by tree on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:15:45 PM EST
    and some of them don't. It may come as a surprise to you, but there are women of all races who deal with the glass ceiling. And women of all races-yes, including white women-who never even get to enter the building, so to speak.

    I'm sure that Michelle Obama is familiar with the glass ceiling through her own experience. You seem to have a stereotypical view of black women. They face two pronged discrimination but to assume that none of them have been able to overcome it and none have faced the glass ceiling is to denigrate the accomplishments of women like Senator Obama's wife.

    Parent

    Ever (none / 0) (#169)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:51:13 PM EST
    tried being a white woman trying to break into a traditionally all-male profession?  Evidently not.  You're either dismissed as an annoyance or expected to behave like a trollope.  In both of my fields, black men and black women were given preference because there's way more white women out there.  And I did not suffer from "white resentment."  I believed these people deserved a chance and I worked harder to excel.

    Parent
    That's it? That's not addressing it (none / 0) (#53)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:34:58 PM EST
    as that's only describing it.  Fleetingly.  And it positions sexism as racialized, too.  No wonder I missed it.

    Parent
    yep, rather a token mention (5.00 / 0) (#95)
    by tree on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:59:02 PM EST
    ... and assumes that the only problems for white women are "glass ceiling" related. I don't think he gets it.

    Parent
    My Guess (none / 0) (#165)
    by Nadai on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:46:18 PM EST
    He's hinting that black women are kept down for being black, not for being women.  It's only white women who have to worry about mere anti-female discrimination.

    Parent
    MSNBC (4.50 / 2) (#59)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:39:45 PM EST
    just advised that Romney gave his speech, Obama gave his speech...  Clinton now needs to give a speech on Bill Clinton.  

    Now excuse me while I go scratch my eyes out.

    Did anyone hear the rest of Clintons comments (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:46:30 PM EST
    about Iraq?  I'm sorry she did it today, because it will get no attention.  As usual, she makes perfect sense about withdrawal from Iraq and spoke very movingly about the troops she has met in Iraq and at home.  She has made a commitment to withdrawal and I do not doubt her.  Furthermore, most people agree that she is the right person who can pull it off.

    Anyone who has Iraq as their top issue in this election should listen to what she said today and not get sidetracked on the media sideshow of the week.

    Parent

    it was (none / 0) (#100)
    by americanincanada on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:01:04 PM EST
    a fantastic speech. it really was. I was glad that CNN carred it live in the interest of equal time.

    Parent
    MSNBC is no longer a news outlet, IMO (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by nashville on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:56:54 PM EST
    I attempted to try to new show with David Gregory, Race to the White House.  Of course the first topic was the speech.  It was to be analyzed by David G., Rachel M., Eugene R. C. Todd, and Joe S.  Even though I get the distinct feeling that 2(3?) are HUGE Obama supporters I though I would give it a try.

    Very quickly I became outraged. When Rachel M., was responding to a question about the political success of the speech she said "what does this mean toward him [Obama] getting the nomination?" To which she answered "that depends alot on whether or not the American people are as smart and capable of absorbing complexity as he said that we were."  I could not believe what she suggested.  

    I'm not spouting talking points.  I'm just getting very weary of being told that my support of Clinton because I am "low-information," "a single uneducated white mother," "senior citizen," or now that I am just not smart enough.

    Thanks for letting me vent.  Now I will go and read Bill Clinton's speech, the main topic. :)

    Parent

    Maddow and Olberman (5.00 / 4) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:01:18 PM EST
    are in a fight to the death to see who can be the most self righteous.


    Parent
    LOL (none / 0) (#119)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:10:54 PM EST
    Someone call Lorne.

    Parent
    LOL Can we bet on it (nt) (none / 0) (#125)
    by DandyTIger on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:15:35 PM EST


    Parent
    I accept Beer (none / 0) (#132)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:19:48 PM EST
    drinker and if you give me a minute, I'll go grab one.

    Parent
    Ha! Ha! (none / 0) (#141)
    by nashville on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:24:43 PM EST
    Thanks, I needed to laugh.

    Parent
    Hillary worships Bill Clinton? (none / 0) (#69)
    by oldpro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:48:00 PM EST
    If so, I'd like to hear that speech myself!

    Parent
    Worship (none / 0) (#89)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:56:05 PM EST
    of Bill Clinton would create an unexpected blackout of the network.  MSNBC would like it if she could do a speech about how much MSNBC hates Bill and if Hillary could toss in a few gratuitous remarks on how much MSNBC hates Hillary, well, that would just put the foam on the beer, now wouldn't it.  I imagine replays would replace the evening crime shows.

    Parent
    Taylor Marsh (4.50 / 2) (#180)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:09:20 PM EST
    has Bill Clinton's speech up.  Makes me even madder that Obama called him a racist.

    Hillary must be happy with Obama's speech (4.00 / 3) (#155)
    by DemBillC on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:33:32 PM EST
    especially this part-
    "I can no more disown (Rev. Wright) than I can my white grandmother--a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe." - Senator Barack Obama

    This shows that Obama will say absolutely anything to get elected even if it means throwing his grandmother under the bus.

    His (none / 0) (#204)
    by 0 politico on Wed Mar 19, 2008 at 09:05:39 AM EST
    Grandmother is biological family (is she not) and helped to raise him.

    He "chose" to associate with Rev. Wright and his church as an adult.  Further, he "chose" not to leave that church or raise flags over Rev. Wright's sermons.

    Remember, he "chose" to associate with Rezko, too.

    Judgement?

    Parent

    Obama Rocks (2.33 / 3) (#159)
    by jsj20002 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:38:56 PM EST
    I just witnessed the best speech I have ever seen about race in America.  I am white Democrat, product of a segregated school system in Dearborn, Michigan circa 1960, Graduate of the  University of Michigan, Stanford Law School, and a U.S. Army veteran.  I worked in Washington DC for the Clinton Administration while they triangulated every issue.  Obama is the real thing. We need a change.    

    Oh Barack, just stop. (5.00 / 4) (#168)
    by Dancing Bear on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:51:07 PM EST
    You have supporters to do this for you. We know it's you,lol.

    Parent
    It's (5.00 / 2) (#176)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:02:44 PM EST
    DKos infiltrating.

    Parent
    Similarity between the two speeches? (1.00 / 1) (#33)
    by digdugboy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:21:20 PM EST
    No, not really. Clinton's was not personal. Obama's was. Frankly, your comment leaves a bad aftertaste. What are you trying to suggest? That Obama plagiarized Bill, or that Obama was being unoriginal? Please explain.

    Bill Clinton's was personal (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:41:22 PM EST
    appropriately, meaning briefly.  I like it better for that than so much today about Obama, as his background is so unlike most AAs in this country, as he is not from a heritage of slavery, did not grow up so disadvantaged by race -- a prep school instead of a poor public school, etc.  

    A speech about race ought to have spoken more to how it has been and is experienced by most AAs in this country . . . and by most whites, for that matter, if it really was going to open a conversation and get anything done about it.

    That's something else I liked a lot about Bill Clinton's speech: it takes the next step to actions that can be taken, and by both AAs and others.  Obama's call to action was to vote for him.

    Parent

    I think the reason (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by ChrisO on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 08:53:54 PM EST
    peoiple are pointing to Clinton's speech is because so many people are claiming that Obama is "brave" for talking about things "no one else is talking about." With just a dollop of irony after his campaign and supporters tried so hard to paint Bill as a racist.

    Parent
    I think it goes very much (none / 0) (#42)
    by SarahinCA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:27:55 PM EST
    to the fact Obama's speech is nothing new.  And it flies in the face of the "Clinton's are racists" theme BO's camp likes to whip everyone into a frenzy with.

    Besides this, Obama would NEVER have made this speech if it weren't for the uproar over Wright.  Clinton, on the other hand, made the speech without political pressure.

    Parent

    Nothing New (1.00 / 1) (#55)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:37:42 PM EST
    Really I have not heard anything like it from a politician.

    Parent
    Read the Clinton speech (none / 0) (#64)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:42:09 PM EST
    It's pretty good.


    Parent
    Agreed; it was great to read it again (nt) (none / 0) (#65)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:44:33 PM EST


    Parent
    I Like Bill Clinton A Lot (none / 0) (#76)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:52:50 PM EST
    But the speech was predictable in a Dem vanilla sort of way. For me Obama's speech was in an entirely different league. No comparison.

    Parent
    Check this out (5.00 / 2) (#113)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:06:06 PM EST

    Of course, some of those in the march do have a history that is far from its message of atonement and reconciliation. One million men are right to be standing up for personal responsibility. But one million men do not make right one man's message of malice and division. (Applause.) No good house was ever built on a bad foundation. Nothing good ever came of hate. So let us pray today that all who march and all who speak will stand for atonement, for reconciliation, for responsibility.

    Let us pray that those who have spoken for hatred and division in the past will turn away from that past and give voice to the true message of those ordinary Americans who march. If that happens -- (applause) -- if that happens, the men and the women who are there with them will be marching into better lives for themselves and their families. And they could be marching into a better future for America. (Applause.)

    Today we face a choice -- one way leads to further separation and bitterness and more lost futures. The other way, the path of courage and wisdom, leads to unity, to reconciliation, to a rich opportunity for all Americans to make the most of the lives God gave them. This moment in which the racial divide is so clearly out in the open need not be a setback for us. It presents us with a great opportunity, and we dare not let it pass us by. (Applause.)

    This passage seems prescient.

    Which path do you think has been taken by Rev. Wright?

    Can he change?

    Parent

    I Don't Understand (none / 0) (#195)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:42:30 PM EST
    The comparison you are trying make. Apples and oranges as far as I can tell, it's black and white.

    Parent
    Squeaky....it's the difference (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by oldpro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:52:09 PM EST
    between offense and defense.

    Yes.  Amazingly, they are very different.

    And the major difference re these two speeches about race in America is this:  Bill Clinton raised the issue to try to move the country forward without a push from anyone.  Obama is hoping to move forward by explaining away an issue he hoped to ignore and minimize.

    In terms of leadership, it's all the difference in the world.

    Parent

    Explaining Yes (none / 0) (#196)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:47:56 PM EST
    Explaining away? No I do not see it that way. With all due respect I think that is not the case because 'explaining away' is an empty gesture and this speech was anything but that.

    Parent
    He does make one wanna believe squeaky... (none / 0) (#70)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:48:48 PM EST
    I just can't help but ask why haven't I heard anything so eloquent on the senate floor, only on the campaign trail?  He's Mr. Smith on the campaign, why not in Washington?

    And why can't Nader or Paul or Kucinich speak like that?:)

    Parent

    Because he never cared about race (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by SarahinCA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:07:49 PM EST
    Not in Chicago, not in the Senate, and not in this campaign, except to denigrate the Clintons.  He has done everything possible to distance himself from race, publicly.  This is why I will never consider this speech any more than political expediency, otherwise known as CYA.

    Parent
    Obama and Clinton... (none / 0) (#130)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:18:26 PM EST
    care about becoming president, beyond that I have really have no idea.  I can see they don't cae about the foreign occupations and bases fermenting hostility while bankrupting us, our league leading prison population, true civil liberty or anything else important.  

    Parent
    Maybe Because (none / 0) (#87)
    by squeaky on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:55:18 PM EST
    We have not had to ever deal with Wright and what he represents to Black people, and all Americans, in a such visible arena.

    Parent
    Wright is just one guy (none / 0) (#142)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:25:07 PM EST
    and I don't know what he represents to the collective African American community.  I'm sure there's plenty who may not give a d*mn about his views.  What do you see Wright representing exactly?  

    There are a vast array of perspectives on the black experience in America.  I don't see Wright as being particularly ingenious.  This is an issue of his making some bad remarks, remarks that I would think most people would find unjustified (I am thinking of what he said particularly about Hillary, and also GD America, and AIDS...and Obama's Jewish support drying up).  His anger is real at its core, but it is coarsened by his apparent willingness to provoke the public the way someone like Rosie O'Donnell does.  She was attacked over and over as well.  I'm not going to absolve either of them for hyperbolic commentary, as much as I might respect their general views.

    Obama's church is a good one.  Its stance on homosexuality is wonderful.  This quote by Wright is wonderful:  "The African-centered point of view does not assume superiority, nor does it assume separatism. It assumes Africans speaking for themselves as subjects in history, not objects in history."  His insulting comments were not.  He has the ability now to apologize for them if he chooses and to forward his message.  People know his name.  Not that that will work in the real world, but heck, maybe he could write a letter.  Wright's an eloquent guy.

    Think of some of the older feminists who have been viciously attacked over the course of this campaign.  They too want to see themselves as subjects of their own history.  A few of these feminists have also phrased their words in a poison-tipped way.  They're important, and Wright is important.  But what Wright said in these instances was still stupid.

    Parent

    Speaking of classy statements (none / 0) (#24)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:14:16 PM EST
    Someone here posted Clinton's speech, I think it was after SC, where she said she expected all of her supporters to support Obama in the general election.

    I can not find that speech.

    Nor do I remember where the comment showed up here on TL.

    If anyone knows this speech and has the link......

    For what it's worth (none / 0) (#27)
    by blogtopus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:16:21 PM EST
    I have to hand it to him, he used his major strength - his ability to inspire - and put it to the test. I think he pulled off some good oratory and he really touched a lot of people today.

    The words (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by americanincanada on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:21:56 PM EST
    in the speech, for the most part, were god. His delivery however, was terrible. He seemed at times both angry and resentful of having to give the speech. He was flat and terribly unsoaring.

    In addition the grandmother thing was an awful moment.

    Hillary, on the other hand, was very gracious about him and her speech about Iraq was devastatingly intelligent and on message.

    Parent

    "The grandmother thing" was (5.00 / 4) (#48)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:31:47 PM EST
    an ungracious moment, I agree.  Many of us have cringed, I imagine, when older relatives reveal what discourse was acceptable in an earlier day.  I have had appallingly discriminatory things said about gender to me.  

    I privately let them know that certain words and statements were not to be made again in my presence.  But I never would call them out for it publicly.  

    I've gone back over the transcript of the speech and see no reason for "the grandmother thing" in it.  And with a previous pattern of treatment toward older white women, it was unwise as well as ungracious.

    It also struck me as quite counter to the respect for the elderly that I repeatedly have seen as a strength of AA friends of mine -- so I see it as another odd note in a speech about being part of the black community, etc.

    Parent

    The Grandmother Thing (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:40:20 PM EST
    I think the grandmother was in there to remind us white folks about our own relatives that have made us cringe, and have us cut some slack for Rev. Wright.

    I think he is preaching to the choir.  No one that didn't already understand and like Obama was listening. The rest are going to get there opinions from Fox.

    Hillary said the right thing.  She needs to stay out of this at this point.

    Parent

    Hillary (none / 0) (#71)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:48:52 PM EST
    not only needs to stay out
    she needs to stay on another continent.  she should keep smiling and join the "move on" democratic chorus.


    Parent
    The reverend is not the one who needs (none / 0) (#133)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:20:01 PM EST
    some slack cut for him.  Obama does.  And as I said, yes, it certainly reminded me -- and I presume many of us -- of older relatives from an earlier day.

    But again, I do not think that Obama won anything doing it this way, by dissing his grandmother, who raised him when his parents would not do so, after all.  

    Frankly, these sorts of references, and this is not the first time, make him sound like an ingrate.  

    Parent

    I'm very worried about that inspiration. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:30:06 PM EST
    I know a lot of people who think it's just wonderful to transcend race.  Unfortunately, they're just the people who think that any disadvantages black people have is caused by black people.  

    They are dying to have the country so inspired that we will stop thinking that well off white people aren't doing their share to create equal opportunities.  

    A lot of them are university professors and, quite frankly, they don't particularly want to educate black people.  They want to produce people like themselves, for goodness sakes.  

    Parent

    I don't think that's fair (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by dianem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:34:00 PM EST
    I've known a fair number of University professor's, and they tend to be a fairly progressive lot (not as much as the right thinks). The good ones love teaching, and will happily teach anybody who is willing to learn, regardless of race or gender. It shows in their work. The not-so-good ones don't seem to focus on any particular race, they just get tangled up in their own ego's. I'm sure that you can find examples of racist professor's, but it is certainly not the norm.

    Parent
    well in fact I am a university (none / 0) (#127)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:16:59 PM EST
    professor in one of the fields where there are few blacks.  (At a national conference of 2,000 or so, I'd expect to see about 2 black profs.)

    I've spent a lot of time and effort trying to open fields up to minorities and women.  Believe me, there isn't a whole lot of interest in doing so at all.  It is getting better, but my field is really the pits.  People who know no blacks personally will explain to you that blacks really just want to earn a lot of money in industry.

    Parent

    Eeek (none / 0) (#46)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:31:27 PM EST
    I don't think I like that comment.


    Parent
    they and them never (none / 0) (#52)
    by cy street on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:34:51 PM EST
    bodes well for any point of view.

    Parent
    See my explanation. (none / 0) (#136)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:21:26 PM EST
    Here's a nice statistic.  During a 7 year period nearly 500 black people earned PhDs in the top fifty chemistry depts.  How many were hired by the top 50?  One.

    So what's that show?  No one has been interested enough to learn about the importance of role models in education?  Or they know about that and don't care?  Or what?

    Parent

    My (none / 0) (#172)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:57:37 PM EST
    husband and I are academic professionals and I have no idea what you are talking about.  At our university the recruiters went into the city streets of Chicago and stopped young black people on the streets and signed them up for grants to go to college.  If they hadn't finished high school or had low grade averages, they still received the grants and they went to remedial classes to get up to college level.  Don't want to educate blacks?  Please.

    Parent
    And my university has a big nsf (none / 0) (#199)
    by jpete on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 11:00:02 PM EST
    grant for educating minorities.  I know a lot about playing the statistics game.  My university is sometimes a  minority university and when it meets the standards there are all sorts of  benefits.

    But I wasn't talking about what the universities do.  I was commenting on the professors and their motivations.  So look at the sciences and engineering.  Why aren't there more blacks in these fields?

    Blacks in my university feel the discrimination almost daily.  But you need  to get really involved in these wars to get a vivid sense of what is going on.  Try interviewing, as I certainly have, deans and chairs about recruiting black faculty and see what their excuse is.  The first round is typically that they can't afford it because blacks are now grossly overpaid in top flight universities.  when you point out that top flight universities are not in fact hiring tons of blacks, see what they say.

    What they say reveals a great deal about the attitude toward blacks in higher education.  

    In fact, nsf is pouring tons of money into trying to change the perceptions of women and minorities in higher education.  Funny thing for them to be doing if there weren't a very serious problem.  Go look at the statistics; watch how many minorities major in a field and watch how they drop out.  Where does the fault lie?  With blacks?  I don't think so.

    Parent

    Rush was definitely not moved. (none / 0) (#32)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:20:30 PM EST


    Parent
    this story will keep the lights on (none / 0) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:24:14 PM EST
    at FOX NEWS for a while yet.


    Parent
    we may not like FOX (none / 0) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:25:14 PM EST
    but they still have the biggest audience.

    Parent
    You didn't get the memo Capt? (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:38:13 PM EST
    Fox is our friend, they were never our enemy.

    MSNBC is the enemy, they were never our friend.

    War is peace, change is stagnant, and I love big democrat brother:)

    Parent

    I have been watching FOX (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:40:03 PM EST
    there I said it.  I am not ashamed.  they are more balanced than MSNBC and I hate CNN.
    I draw the line at O'Reilly but other than that its been sort of fun the last few days.


    Parent
    guilty recent pleasure (5.00 / 0) (#96)
    by jes on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:59:30 PM EST
    I turn on OReilly and turn off the sound, just to up the numbers against Olbermann.

    Parent
    HA (none / 0) (#108)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:02:53 PM EST
    hadnt thought of that
    thanks

    Parent
    More balanced or more pro Hillary? (none / 0) (#68)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:47:04 PM EST
    Methinks you will not like them if Hillary were to be the nominee.

    Parent
    of course you are right (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:50:11 PM EST
    and the Obama supporters will not like MSNBC if he and McCain are the nominees.
    I get the spin where it interests me.


    Parent
    They will probably be ok with KO (none / 0) (#98)
    by Molly Bloom on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:00:19 PM EST
    but most of the MSNBC lineup? you are so right .

    Parent
    Methinks (none / 0) (#74)
    by Edgar08 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:50:22 PM EST
    I would dislike them less than I dislike MSNBC.

    Parent
    I'm so ashamed (none / 0) (#72)
    by waldenpond on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:50:02 PM EST
    so have I.  I just couldn't take MSNBC anymore.

    Parent
    my name is waldenpond (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:51:44 PM EST
    (or Capt Howdy) and I watch FOX News.  I have not seen Tweety in 8 days.

    "hello capt howdy"

    Parent

    I watch all the time... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:55:03 PM EST
    that sh*t is comedic.  Laugh out loud funny.

    As long as you know going in that all the news channels are in the business of selling commercials, not the business of journalism, you're good to go.

    If I want investigative journalism, I see what Greg Palast is up to.

    Parent

    Fox and CNN (none / 0) (#111)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:05:36 PM EST
    have women anchors in primetime.  Fox has had one for years (Greta) and CNN finall got one.

    MSNBC, on the other hand, is all about the boys.

    Does that tell you anything?

    I agree, it's better to watch an equal opportunity hater (Fox) than a biased one-sided male based lover (MSNBC).

    In fact, I've decided I'll start Tivoing Campbell Brown (who I don't really like) and Greta (who I used to like but figured she went to the dark side).

    Parent

    It tells me... (none / 0) (#160)
    by kdog on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:41:15 PM EST
    they're chasing varied demographics for their advertisers.

    Parent
    a friend of mine, (none / 0) (#47)
    by cy street on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:31:37 PM EST
    who recently divorced after fourteen years of marriage asked, "what is it like out there these days being single?"

    i replied, "desperation" is the worst cologne of all.

    Parent

    is this an attempt at "gracious" humor (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:38:29 PM EST
    whatever.  
    after 17 years of being single (and loving it) I can assure you there is not a desperate bone in my body.

    there is a word you should consider though:
    projection.

    Parent

    The speech was good but (none / 0) (#77)
    by Manuel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:52:53 PM EST
    it is only a small start.

    The framing was right.  The calls for action were weak (examine your prejudices, be good to your family).

    An interesting unanswered question is what he thinks of a segregated church (he caalled Sunday morning the most segregated hour in america).  And if a segregated church is OK (he has belonged to one for 20 years) what about segregated housing and segregated schools?

    Btw, it's a common line in the AA (none / 0) (#86)
    by Cream City on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 05:55:18 PM EST
    community, that Sunday morning line.  I've seen it before, and in a local AA reporter's column this morning.

    Parent
    In Seattle as in many other cities (none / 0) (#135)
    by Manuel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:21:13 PM EST
    the schools are segregated and the differences in test scores and conditions are quite visible.  This speech is a start but we need so much more.

    Parent
    How long does a wake-up call last? (none / 0) (#154)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:33:31 PM EST
    Not very long.  We'll see how long this speech lasts in the public consciousness.  Obviously it would not be smart nor effective of Obama to go on a verbal crusade to end economic and racial injustice over the next week.  We can encourage people to be nice to each other regardless of XYZ but we have to keep our eye on the legislation, the funding, the respect our programs give to people in this country.  One great thing about universal health care would be that it would make us all equal at some basic level - we could look around and know that the people we see aren't slowly dying of cancer, unable to afford treatment, or working way too hard to give treatment to those who can't even leave the house.  In some ways the Dem platform is good enough for Obama's speech, if not better.  We need to concentrate on that because the Repub platform sure as heck is not.

    Parent
    The best thing Obama could do for party unity (none / 0) (#162)
    by Manuel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:42:01 PM EST
    would be to adopt a healt care plan similar to Edwards'/Clinton's for the party platform.  Of course, he has boxed himself in on that issue so it is probably out of the question.  BTW Sitting MI and FL would have an effect on this platform issue even if Clinton doesn't win.  Of course party platforms aren't worth that much but they are symbolic.

    Parent
    Well again (none / 0) (#175)
    by tek on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 07:00:58 PM EST
    we belong to a church that welcomes all races and sexual orientations.  Every year around MLk Day several of our members attend a black Baptist church in town and invite them to attend ours.  This has gone one for years.  The Baptists have never shown an interest in visiting our church.  We have a few blacks who are African and are affiliated with the local university.

    Parent
    It was ML King's line first (none / 0) (#206)
    by fairleft on Thu Mar 20, 2008 at 12:29:08 AM EST
    But he was criticizing and lamenting the fact, not making up an "old truism."

    Q: Don't you feel that integration can only be started and realized in the Christian church, not in schools or by other means? This would be a means of seeing just who are true Christians.

    King: As a preacher, I would certainly have to agree with this. I must admit that I have gone through those moments when I was greatly disappointed with the church and what it has done in this period of social change. We must face the fact that in America, the church is still the most segregated major institution in America. At 11:00 on Sunday morning when we stand and sing and Christ has no east or west, we stand at the most segregated hour in this nation. This is tragic. Nobody of honesty can overlook this. Now, I'm sure that if the church had taken a stronger stand all along, we wouldn't have many of the problems that we have. The first way that the church can repent, the first way that it can move out into the arena of social reform is to remove the yoke of segregation from its own body. . . .

    http://www.wmich.edu/library/archives/mlk/q-a.html


    Parent

    Jearlyn, T/U for posting the Bill Clinton speech-- (none / 0) (#118)
    by jawbone on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:08:09 PM EST
    I found myself wondering if any of the cable channels carried the Clinton speech in its entirety.

    I bet not.

    What I saw in Clinton's and Obama's speeches was that both tried to speak to blacks and whites, Clinton including Latinos in the wish for understanding and dialogue. Can't recall if Obama did today?

    Clinton said whites have a responsibility to clean their own house(s) and make sure to speak out against actions and speech against blacks.

    And, yes, there were similar ideas--bcz they were talking about similar things.

    Hillary (none / 0) (#138)
    by chrisvee on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:22:36 PM EST
    She was very gracious and smart in her response.  I continue to admire her fortitude.  I have absolutely no doubt that whatever challenges might be presented to her, President Hillary Clinton could meet them head on.  She has a strong combination of intelligence and resolve that I find quite inspirational even though I don't generally look for pols to inspire me.

    I have to say that I'm a bit surprised at the reaction to Obama's grandmother story. I thought he was being very smart to link Wright, black Americans (his key demo) and older white women (Hillary's key demo) in his unity chorus. But the reaction on the boards I frequent has been very negative. Is that widespread or a characteristic of a neutral or Hillary-leaning group?

    you honestly think the grandmother (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by SarahinCA on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:34:28 PM EST
    thing linked to Hillary's demographic in some positive way?

    Parent
    What I Think (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by chrisvee on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:45:24 PM EST
    My comment wasn't so much about what I think about the grandmother story; I'm focused more on the political impact of the speech. I think Senator Obama was trying to take forces perceived to be in opposition and find common ground so that he could re-establish focus on his post-racial, next generation, unity message.  And I thought he probably had found an effective way to do it by choosing very personal stories that reinforce his narrative. That's why I'm surprised at the reaction and wondering if it's typical.

    In terms of my personal opinion, the entire speech left me cold because of the political considerations underlying it.

    Parent

    Hello Grandma (none / 0) (#189)
    by lentinel on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 08:50:16 PM EST
    I was just wondering why Obama doesn't mention his mother instead of his grandma.

    Parent
    Now she should (none / 0) (#150)
    by Fultron on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 06:30:43 PM EST
    come out in a major way on the economy.

    Obama's speech was excellent, but let's not forget that it was mainly prompted by CYA with this whole Wright thing. He delivered a powerful speech, but only because he was forced to confront it.

    Race is not Clinton's issue, and to try to top what Obama did today would be impossible for her (or anyone). Clinton has done the right thing here.

    The top story in the news is still the Fed rate cut and will continue to be the recession. It will be far more important in the GE and coming weeks than racial politics. Obama was sidetracked by this issue, and meanwhile McCain is off in Iraq. Clinton should go for the economy while she has the opportunity.

    I'm not sure what the speech was meant (none / 0) (#191)
    by thereyougo on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 08:54:08 PM EST
    to do. Re-interate what summarily is the state of race relations  in the union? That we can get beyond it? A few anectodes and onto his pastors resume as a good guy, who said a few things that got me into this pickle?  

    Yes, Obama is a gifted orator, or we're just used to the president's half assed reading off the teleprompter and we're starved for some intelligent discourse. Yeah then the speech was a resounding success.  I honestly think that.

    I wasn't moved, well sorta. There is a place for Obama on the dem ticket for sure. One has the audacity to hope.

    Colin Powell (none / 0) (#193)
    by NJDem on Tue Mar 18, 2008 at 09:21:09 PM EST
    It was reported on Fox tonight (yeah, I know it's Fox, but it's no worse than CNN/Msnbc) that Colin Powell walked out on a speech Wright was giving at a convention.  FWIW.  

    Grandma... (none / 0) (#207)
    by lentinel on Sun Mar 23, 2008 at 09:11:37 PM EST
    I think Obama is not mentioning his mother because he is, at the moment, trying to be black. It reminds me of the "high-tech lynching" reply by Clarence Thomas when confronted by the credible accusations of Anita Hill. The liberals collapsed.

    Obama's white mother is a little too current.

    I am somewhat older than 37 and I can tell you that "nigger" has not be acceptable for many many more years than 37.

    I am speaking of white folks using it to refer to black folks.
    Black people have been referring to each other that way for generations. I heard it on the street in New York a few months ago.

    Hillary Addresses Obama's Race Speech | 205 comments (205 topical)

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