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Sunday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:42:34 AM EST
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I hope you can't go blind from reading 3,000 pages of wiretap affidavits in 48 hours. I still have 600 pages to go. 33 phone lines tapped in one case, what a monster.

Here's an open thread for those of you who are spending your Sunday in a more pleasurable way.

< Saving The "Non-Banks?" | Guardian: Elizabeth Warren Critical Of The Geithner Way >

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    Sunday Open Thread | 103 comments (103 topical)

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    Here's Something Nice (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:54:35 AM EST
    It should put a smile on your face. Do rey mi...

    via Jorn Barger

    A sign of the times regarding the media: (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by NJDem on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:02:02 PM EST
    I know we/TL didn't talk (unless I missed it) about the Saudi bowing controversy, but here's an interesting take from the NYT when Clinton almost did it back in '94.  As far as I can tell, the NYT has nary a word to say about the 'incident' the other day...

    Nice Find (none / 0) (#86)
    by aeguy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:16:08 PM EST
    We have a national media that is not willing to scrutinize Pres. Obama as elected office demands. Obama = Reagan. They both get the Teflon treatment.

    Parent
    not so (none / 0) (#90)
    by DFLer on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:05:06 PM EST
    the incident was discussed on cable...

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:56:14 PM EST
    Obama doesn't have teflon. No one has teflon anymore with the 24 hour news cycle. They are slaves to the approval ratings and when they go down enough they'll be like sharks circling the water.

    Parent
    is this a depression? (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by Jlvngstn on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:42:00 PM EST
    Depends on the next 46 months.  A little history:

    Recession --  # of months until return of peak emp
    1948 - 21
    1953 - 22
    1958 - 24
    1960 - 20
    1974 - 15
    1981 - 27
    1990 - 30
    2001 - 46

    the number of percent job losses relative to peak employment months is 2.5% lower than the last two recessions and 2001 took nearly 4 years.  nearly every other recession caught up with previous peak quicker than their descent e/g 14 months down, 9 months back up.  The last 2 have had lingering lows and lumbering returns.

    Unfortunately 46 months to peak employment in 2001 termed the "jobless recovery" had record foreclosures and bankruptcies.

    Considering how many more jobs have been lost that the last 2 recessions and assuming a similar chart back it is going to feel like a depression to many.  3.5 million SAVED or created jobs will be held in high suspect relative to the accuracy and integrity of the "saved jobs".  

    For the stimulus to work it has to create 3 million and save .5 in two years.  5 million people are already gone and we will continue to lose maybe 1.4-2.0 million more this year. Even if we only lose one million more this year 3 million new only replaces half of those who have lost their jobs/  5 million new jobs in 3 years leaves 16% of total lost in the last 2 years unemployed for 4 years.  

    Basically the private sector needs to create 3-4 million jobs over the next 2 years and the gov't needs to create 3 million jobs or we are going to have millions more chronically unemployed (more than 2 years) not eligible for benefits, living below the poverty level Americans.  Consider this from wikipedia:

    "The official poverty rate in the U.S. increased for four consecutive years, from a 26-year low of 11.3% in 2000 to 12.7% in 2004, then declined somewhat to 12.3% in 2006. This means that 36.5 million people (approx 1 in 8 Americans) were below the official poverty thresholds in 2006, compared to 31.1 million in 2000[14], and that there was an increase of 4.9 million poor from 2000 to 2006 while the total population grew by 17.5 million. [15] The poverty rate for children under 18 years old increased from 16.2% to 17.8% from 2000 to 2004 and had dropped to 17.4% in 2005 and 2006."

    I predict one in 6 americans below the poverty line in 4 years.

    Is this depressing or a depression?

    Ichiro's out till April 15th (none / 0) (#3)
    by addy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:56:06 AM EST
    from a bleeding ulcer. I hope this doesn't signal another bad year for our Mariners. After last year, I can't imagine it could get worse.

    Here's an odd juxtoposition (none / 0) (#4)
    by Dadler on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:02:54 PM EST
    One of the guys in my fantasy baseball league, Bill Luoma, is a poet, and recently he gave a reading in NYC, in which he narrates baseball bloopers with the language of particle physics. Things fall apart. The center cannot hold.

    Parent
    Padres played two exhibition games (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:08:37 PM EST
    v. Angels this weekend.  Lost each, but only by one run each game.  Spring, hope, etc.

    Parent
    Addy..Ichiro out for opener with my Twins (none / 0) (#12)
    by DFLer on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:18:32 PM EST
    but so is Mauer, and Baker, original scheduled to pitch.

    Still..can't wait

    (Why life begins on opening day)

    Parent

    It's college acceptance/rejection time. (none / 0) (#5)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:04:42 PM EST
    And we are all stressed out in my house.

    Accepted at:  Northwestern, U. Illinois, Virginia Tech.

    Rejected from:  Yale, Princeton.

    Waitlisted at:  Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard.

    He really wants to go to Northwestern, but there's no way we can afford it. They offer hardly any financial aid at all. With the small scholarship the School of Engineering is offering, our cost would be 45,000/year. Unbelievable. How does anyone afford college?

    U. of Illinois is probably going to be it. They offered $2500/year for 4 years in scholarship for engineering studies and the bottom line is still high, but comparatively reasonable.

    Sheesh. College seems to be for rich kids only.

    I worked my way through state school, then got fellowships for grad school. Ended up fine. I tell him that and tell him he's lucky, but it still feels bad as a parent not to be able to give them what they want.

    It's that time of year again. . . (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by andgarden on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:20:46 PM EST
    IMO, College is a lot like real estate. Location, location, location.

    Where are the good engineering internships these days?

    Parent

    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:57:23 PM EST
    U of I is actually #5 nationally for engineering this year, just behind the biggies like MIT and Stanford, etc.

    So, he's in luck in that sense.

    The actual location (Urbana Champaign) leaves much to be desired, IMO.

    Parent

    In my view, (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by KeysDan on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:50:17 PM EST
    the University of Illinois is an excellent choice for engineering, and if study is to be chemical engineering, students also have access to its world class chemistry department. Some of our great state universities (e.g. U of Mich, Wisconsin, Iowa, Ohio State) are often given short-shrift in comparison to some Ivies, especially for the sciences. Although Urbana is in the middle of the corn fields, it is really a pretty good environment for learning, and can be a lot of fun as well.  Engineering is an intensive course of undergraduate study, so maybe it is all to the good that the bright lights of the big city 140 miles north wait a few years.  

    Parent
    Thanks. (none / 0) (#65)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:17:31 PM EST
    Great points.

    I was looking at their engineering website today - they had a thing about their students entering into a national Rube Goldberg competition with a bizarre contraption. Looked like a lot of fun.

    Parent

    Northwestern is a great engineering school (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by aeguy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:59:14 PM EST
    But really expensive. UIUC is top 5, I would go there if the school is a good fit for him. For undergrad, I would only choose MIT over lower cost options.  

    I'm an engineering graduate student at Stanford right now. I went to the University of Florida, my state school, worked hard and got involved with some research projects that made a strong app. There are many students with high GPA's, what's important for jobs or graduate school is to get some real research or internship experience. NW or UIUC both provide ample opportunities. As long as he's committed, he'll be okay.

    Good luck and congratulations!  

    Parent

    Thanks. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:16:16 PM EST
    Extremely helpful to hear from the engineers in the house.

    Parent
    Champaign-Urbana is close (none / 0) (#72)
    by caseyOR on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:38:43 PM EST
    enough for a weekend jaunt to the Windy City. I grew up and attended college in that part of Illinois. Granted, it is not Chicago, but neither is it as isolated as it might seem.

    And, as an engineering student, he will be just a short hop down I-74 from Peoria, home to Caterpillar Tractor Company. Talk about your engineering-reliant business. Cat offers lots of internship opportunities. They get many students from Bradley U., which is right there in Peoria. I'm thinking Cat makes room, though, for talented students from, as you've noted, one of the premiere engineering schools in the USA.

    Parent

    Thanks. (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:00:19 PM EST
    I am trying to talk him out of saddling himself with debt, just to go to a fancy school. Just finished paying my own school loans - it's a burden I don't want for him.

    Parent
    Butting in, one mo time (none / 0) (#77)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 04:36:46 PM EST
    The great universities obviously know what I said before about the first two year curriculum, and teachers. Their attitude is, "you're not home with mommy and daddy any more, let's see what you're made of." You basically teach yourself.

    Having said that, they will also know your high school records, and aptitude tests. So, if you go to a state school or community college first, AND ace your grades, they look very favorably on that performance. Your son may get into a school he thought was out of reach, and/or more scholarship money may be offered.
    After all, you know the flunk out rate is about 50% so if someone gets through two years and does great, Bingo! Move on up to the head of the line.

    That's it.........I promise.


    Parent

    Thanks for butting in. (none / 0) (#79)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:03:57 PM EST


    Parent
    As a state school alum (5.00 / 3) (#54)
    by Steve M on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:50:38 PM EST
    I have never really been able to understand how private school could be THAT much better, at least for undergrad.  For anyone who's not made of money it just seems like you get way more bang for your buck at an in-state school.

    Another advantage of the big state schools, that may or may not apply to your guy, is that if you change your mind along the way as far as what you want to major in, you typically have all the options available to you.  Definite advantage for those who start out with no idea of what they want to do!

    Yet another advantage is that a big school may offer a better set of athletic teams to root for.  Go Spartans!

    Parent

    How about going out of state to (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:09:46 PM EST
    excellent state university--U of M?

    Congratulations on the Spartans' amazing win.  

    Parent

    Yeah Me Too (none / 0) (#55)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:56:57 PM EST
    I do not think I could have gotten a better education, and I went to state undergrad and grad.

    The appeal of private schools, for many, is that you wind up with a wealthier set of colleagues, business contacts etc.

    For many it is a chance for upward mobility. And for others it is to go to school with ones peers.

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#70)
    by Steve M on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:44:34 PM EST
    Living in NYC with all these Ivy League types, I can definitely see the networking advantages that come from attending certain expensive schools.  But it really depends on what you end up doing with your life.

    Parent
    And typically (none / 0) (#57)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:59:35 PM EST
    more research money goes to the public schools than private.  

    Parent
    Good state schools' good grads (none / 0) (#59)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:06:44 PM EST
    can be sought by the best grad schools, law schools, med schools, etc., too -- and if away from the coasts, often are sought by the best schools there for "diversity" (seeking Midwesterners and other such exotics:-).  

    What private schools do have to offer, especially these days, are a lot of people working hard for students' internship and first-job placements.  Those areas of administration are getting cut more and more at public schools facing big budget cuts.  But those placement services can be important in some fields, not others, anyway -- and with the internet and more, the ways that students find internships and jobs is changing, too.  So going into the college market knowing what you get and may not get, and what you are willing to do on your own to get into the job market, can be a wise way to approach the decision to pay $5,000 per year vs. $25,000.

    Parent

    I agree completely. (none / 0) (#62)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:13:53 PM EST
    I just have to convince him not to be disappointed...

    I guess I'll have to start saying "Go Illini"???

    Parent

    I'm so glad I ... (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Robot Porter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    didn't go to an Ivy League school.  I was accepted to a couple.

    They may help you succeed in life, but at the price of your soul.

    I know a lot of people who took the Ivy League course.  They are all fairly successful, and hollow as a cheap, chocolate Easter Bunny.

    I went to art school.  So, perhaps, I was left with too much soul.  But I can live with that.

    Parent

    Disappointed?? (none / 0) (#78)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 04:45:07 PM EST
    o.k I lied, definitely last word!

    It was my brother who went to M.I.T. and Harvard; me, i was shoot'n baseballs at the big Orange.

    And look at me now, A Superstar on Talk left!!!.....LOL

    (Bite your tongue & break your fingers, squeaky)


    Parent

    So what happened to your brother? (none / 0) (#80)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:04:33 PM EST


    Parent
    He applied (none / 0) (#87)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:28:44 PM EST
     to only two schools, M.I.T. and Harvard. M.I.T. responded first with an acceptance letter. Harvard, seeing that M.I.T. was his fist choice, wrote him a snotty letter stating that "since you were accepted at your first choice, we see no need to continue the review process." (Guess not too many people stiff Harvard.)

    Anyway, after two years at M.I.T. (he won the Boardman prize, for the highest scholastic average) he caught the social bug, and since crimson sweaters were cooler than the dingy threads at M.I.T., he transferred to Harvard for his last two. I'm sure Harvard would've loved to tell him to cram it, but how do you tell the top student at M.I.T. you're not wanted? But they had another sneaky way to "get him" for the insult of two years prior; they housed him in a freshman dormitory......lol

    Make a long story short:

    Graduated Harvard, magna, summa, kamma, kakka, who knows....
    Started his PHD program at Berkeley in theoretical nuclear physics because they had a German physicist their working on their giant ion accelerator, and since the German big shot didn't speak English, and my brother did speak German, they teamed up.

    Back to Harvard after German guy left, and finished his doctorate there.
    He wanted to follow in Einstein's footsteps, find a university where they would let him do pure research, but instead, he found a knock-out blond on a vacation to Europe, and she basically told him, "Knock that research crap out of your head, get into business, make us oodles of money.....Then go do your silly research.

    And that's exactly what he did.


    Parent

    Wow! (5.00 / 1) (#91)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:19:32 PM EST
    Great story.

    Must make for some interesting sibling rivalry...

    Parent

    Yeah, he took a bunch (none / 0) (#99)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 11:52:15 PM EST
    of companies public in the 90's, became point man for a Chinese cartel, bought a 9 million dollar Cray supercomputer (I-pod didn't work so well, I guess) and now is sailing in the Pacific alone.

    Come to think of it, he's been gone two or three years now. Hmm

    Me, I prefer spreading asphalt with my son in the Big Apple.

    Parent

    Steve, tough break for (none / 0) (#74)
    by caseyOR on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:46:03 PM EST
    little Desmond's first foray into sports betting. On the upside, the whole family can cheer together for the Spartans on Monday night. Well, unless Audrey picked UNC. Hmmm.

    Parent
    My husband and I both went to an (none / 0) (#88)
    by BernieO on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:32:13 PM EST
    elite private college. We both feel it was a waste of money for us and for most of our friends. Both our kids went to state schools and got at least as good an education. Since both wanted to stay in this state they had the additional advantage of having many more contacts than if they had gone to an out-of-state private school. Even had they attended a elite school in this state many of their friends would not have stayed after graduation. Both of them have found this to be a great advantage in finding good jobs.

    I would urge people to be very careful when they assume their child will get a better education in an elite school.  If there is a particular area of interest that a particular private school is known for then the added expense may well make sense.

    I had a friend who went to college in the 50's. One of her friend's ambition was to get into politics. By attending a large state school and getting involved in student governmentt he was well on his way by the time he graduated. He eventually became governor of that state, then senator. He was even mentioned for VP a couple of times. In his case, a Harvard degree would not have been an advantage. In fact, it would have put a lot of voters off.  

    Parent

    My husband and I both went to an (none / 0) (#89)
    by BernieO on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:33:50 PM EST
    elite private college. We both feel it was a waste of money for us and for most of our friends. Both our kids went to state schools and got at least as good an education. Since both wanted to stay in this state they had the additional advantage of having many more contacts than if they had gone to an out-of-state private school. Even had they attended a elite school in this state many of their friends would not have stayed after graduation. Both of them have found this to be a great advantage in finding good jobs.

    I would urge people to be very careful when they assume their child will get a better education in an elite school.  If there is a particular area of interest that a particular private school is known for then the added expense may well make sense.

    I had a friend who went to college in the 50's. One of her friend's ambition was to get into politics. By attending a large state school and getting involved in student governmentt he was well on his way by the time he graduated. He eventually became governor of that state, then senator. He was even mentioned for VP a couple of times. In his case, a Harvard degree would not have been an advantage. In fact, it would have put a lot of voters off.  

    Parent

    Very sympatico w/your (none / 0) (#9)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:09:37 PM EST
    final sentence.  Daughter may elect grad school at U of I, but as an out-of-state student. $$$$$

    Parent
    It's a fine school. (none / 0) (#10)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:12:24 PM EST
    What's her area of focus?

    Parent
    Choreography of (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:13:45 PM EST
    contemporary dance.

    Parent
    Ouch, indeed. (none / 0) (#20)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:33:18 PM EST
    Engineers may be in better position to pay back big loans than choreographers.  It is awful to see so many young people starting out with massive loans.

    Have you looked into what it takes to become a resident?  Six months in my state, which can make it worthwhile to defer starting for a semester or year (check and see how long the program's acceptance lasts, whether it requires starting in fall, etc.).  Also check to see what constitutes residency.  You didn't hear this here . . . but it has happened that people fly in, get a driver's license and phone number, and return in fall.  (Schools are getting savvier to that now.)

    Parent

    Unless, of course (none / 0) (#23)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:37:49 PM EST
    there is a TAship or the like with free tuition, too.  Those are the grad schools to seek.  But the competition is ferocious now -- my program saw the applications for TAships (with free tuition, benefits, etc.) triple this year.  

    Parent
    Ah. (none / 0) (#32)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:58:04 PM EST
    Yes, they have a MFA in fine arts, and a good theater/arts program.

    Parent
    Just a thought...... (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:38:18 PM EST
    My brother and I went to expensive schools; I had an athletic scholarship to help defray the cost; my brother, the same but for academics. Now, we've talked about those days a million times, and we both agree that if we had to pay the full freight, we'd have gone to a local state college, even a 2 year community college, for the first two years. Since the courses are virtually identical for freshmen and sophomores regardless of schools, teachers are grad students, and you don't even get to see a professor till your junior year, why go into hock for $80,000 for primer stuff?

    Just a thought.

    Parent

    Private schools (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by lilburro on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:34:38 PM EST
    do have some worth if you are interested in majoring in liberal arts.  That doesn't seem to the be the case here, but I was never taught by a grad student, had a lot of professor face time, small classes, etc.  No engineering program though.

    Parent
    really? (none / 0) (#75)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 04:19:05 PM EST
    Where was that, if you don't mind sharing that?

    We had nothing but grad students, and that goes for M.I.T., Syracuse, Columbia, and yes, Hah-vahd.

    A full professor; maybe twice a year, and that was with about 1500 students crammed into a lecture hall. I guess they just wanted us to see what greatness looked like.........lol

    Parent

    Haverford College (none / 0) (#81)
    by lilburro on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:21:58 PM EST
    Haverford, Bryn Mawr, Swarthmore, all were like that and I believe Vassar, Bard, and some others are like that as well.

    But sweet jesus it's expensive.  And college is whatever you make of it so I think personal will is most important.

    Parent

    Wow, what a bunch (none / 0) (#84)
    by NYShooter on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:05:09 PM EST
    of great schools; each pretty unique. Except for Vassar, you might say they're special, "boutique" schools. Having gone to a big one myself, I think I would have preferred any one on your list.

    Parent
    Agreed. (none / 0) (#63)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:15:04 PM EST
    I think it's not worth the money to go private, especially at the undergrad level.

    Parent
    The deferred interest (none / 0) (#17)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:29:45 PM EST
    is useful, thanks to Bill Clinton resurrecting this, for a tax deduction -- once you have income, if you have income, if you get a job.:-)

    Parent
    Northwestern tuition is nuts now (none / 0) (#21)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:35:36 PM EST
    and one wonders what it is doing with its endowment.  Supply and demand must be working in its favor, but for how long in this economy?  A lot of privates at a time like this turn to their endowments to be able to buy the best students.

    Parent
    Yes. (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:05:31 PM EST
    That's why he applied to some of the fancy schmancy places like Hahvahd - they are using endowment money to help middle class kids go there. But Northwestern is up front about not offering much of anything.

    Parent
    A friend of mine sent her daughter (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:01:30 PM EST
    there in the mid-90s. She majored in dance. At that time it was around $25,000 a year. The girl was a dedicated, top grades personality who did very well academically. Upon graduation she worked as a temp for MTV and has gone no further with her fancy education than her sister has gone with her state university degree. I realize that isn't always the case, but success comes to those who are born into connections, or have the will to plow through the challenges.

    Parent
    Very true. (none / 0) (#66)
    by Dr Molly on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:18:24 PM EST


    Parent
    What did the non-dancer sister (none / 0) (#73)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:40:12 PM EST
    major in?

    Parent
    Communications (none / 0) (#76)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 04:22:53 PM EST


    Parent
    Stafford and Perkins (none / 0) (#22)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:37:39 PM EST
    are government loans.  In both cases, if you qualify for need-based loans, the government pays the interest during school enrollment.  Stafford loans are not necessarily need based, but if you don't qualify for a need-based Stafford loan, then the interest is deferred to you.

    Citiassist loans -- which are PRIVATE loans from Citibank -- are the ones where the interest is deferred to you.  They are not need-based.

    Parent

    True, and a great deal (none / 0) (#29)
    by Cream City on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:56:10 PM EST
    -- and soon-to-be grads who do not have a lot of loans already might even want to look at this last chance to get a loan, if they can just bank it toward buying a good deal on housing later or are going to need a car to find a job or the like, because they will not be in good position to get loans for some time to come.  Payments are deferred for six months after graduation (as long as they have not taken time out during school and used up that deferment already), and even then, if they still are unemployed (or become unemployed in years to come), they can negotiate deferments again or lower payments.  The payback rate has been so poor on student loans that, at least in past, the creditor has been happy just to not have the former students disappear.  

    Parent
    Sounds like fun! (none / 0) (#6)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:05:43 PM EST
    and I think I'll have the same for dinner :) No party here though. I am thrilled baseball season is starting and have hopes to do better in both of my fantasy leagues this year. I should go put on one of my Yankees shirts . . . .

    Michele's Cousin (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:08:48 PM EST
    Is a Rabbi, who woulda thunk it.

    3 police officers killed in Pittsburgh (none / 0) (#15)
    by jbindc on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:24:53 PM EST
    Truly a sad story.

    Apparently the gunman had been drinking heavily and thought his guns were going to be taken away.

    well. (none / 0) (#18)
    by connecticut yankee on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:30:16 PM EST
    Well, he was right. They are gone now.

    Parent
    Not Just Three (none / 0) (#19)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:32:28 PM EST
    Yesterday, I asked what the hell was going on with all these killing rampages. Eric Boehlert pointed out that the press had completely fallen down on the job by failing to note that there had been 30 people killed in gun rampages in just the last six days (three more today) by treating each incident as if it were a a one day story. (That seems to be changing a little bit with yesterday and today's killings.)

    digby

    Parent

    does that include (none / 0) (#28)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:56:05 PM EST
    these 5 kids and dad?

    Parent
    48 Dead One Month (none / 0) (#107)
    by squeaky on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 05:44:32 PM EST
    In the last month, 48 lives have been claimed in just seven mass shootings across the United States, according to published reports.


    Parent
    Anti-Turkey Sentiment (none / 0) (#25)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:41:07 PM EST
    PRAGUE (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama urged the European Union on Sunday to accept Turkey as a full member of the 27-nation bloc, in remarks rejected outright by France and met coolly by Germany.

    Reuters

    Must be all them Muslims..

    More likely worries about EU (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:43:24 PM EST
    membership and tendency of new EU member countries to bleed people to better-developed countries w/i the EU.

    Parent
    Well Yeah (none / 0) (#30)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:56:44 PM EST
    And particularly if they are muslims. There is much anti muslim right wing sentiment in Europe these days. The big fear is that the muslims will out breed the christians and take over.

    No different from the white supremacists here who want to kill because America is browning. Also the same mentality that propels Israeli hostilities. The muslims are breeding faster than Israelis and must be removed or destroyed, otherwise there will no longer be a Jewish state.

    Demographics is a killer.

    Parent

    Racism might be part of the issue... (none / 0) (#36)
    by EL seattle on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:09:53 PM EST
    ... but I think that there is a fear of terrorism that isn't completely without some justification.  If things like the 2005 London bombings had never happened, I think that it would be easier to make a simple judgement call on this.

    Parent
    Having not been to Europe ever (none / 0) (#39)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:22:21 PM EST
    but around individuals from other NATO countries who have been here recently for schooling, what oculus is talking about is the burden that has been placed on the EU countries with healtheir economies and better benefits for its citizenship and inhabitants.  I have not seen it but have been told that when countries in the overall condition that Turkey is in enter the EU, there has been a mass exodus of the impoverished from the new country into the rest of the EU as people seek better prospects for healthcare, education........life in general.  It has put a huge strain on many EU countries.  Completely forgot about having this conversation with a European officer until I read this comment from oculus.

    Parent
    Interestingly, there is also (none / 0) (#40)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:25:26 PM EST
    some reverse migration now.  For example, in some instances in Poland, everyone who could work in a small impoverished community migrated to places such as Ireland, where the economy was booming.  But now, due to downtown in Irish economic situation, the same people are going back home, where prospects are apparently better.

    Parent
    yeah (none / 0) (#43)
    by connecticut yankee on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:30:15 PM EST
    That's happening in the US as well, with illegal aliens returning to mexico due to the economy and increased enforcement.  I think the number declined for the first time in years.

    In the Turkey case, its not just racism. The article includes a list of EU reasons:  slow reforms in turkey, poor human rights record and a long-standing dispute with EU member cypress.

    But I'm sure it's also the poverty levels and religious, cultural and racial concerns.

    Parent

    Tough on Mexico's residents, as (none / 0) (#45)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:33:12 PM EST
    remittances are way down.  

    Parent
    Re your first sentence, MT. (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:27:43 PM EST
    Seems to me your steadfast support of U.S. military should at least result in a posting to Germany!

    Parent
    Honey we were going (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:36:10 PM EST
    and Italy too.  We couldn't wait, but then our precious Joshua was born.  It isn't that in other countries good healthcare doesn't exist for him, but the military feels that they can't guarantee him that. Therefore the family will always remain stateside and our soldier will go on year long (or slightly longer right now) deployments without his family.  Sigh, such is life.  We go visit him though when we can and I'm good with money.  I would never deny my children the mind expanding opportunity to experience a different culture....but we have only been to Korea so far.  Stayed 94 days and had to pay a fine for staying beyond 90 and not having our passports stamped in Seoul, but I was having too much fun to worry about details :)  Seoul was wonderful though, and living in a small Korean village for the summer was priceless.

    Parent
    True (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:28:25 PM EST
    But they are not a net minus. Their labor and culture add quite a bit. Mainly it is right wing rhetoric, fueled by nationalism.

    Parent
    How can you honestly declare (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Militarytracy on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:39:18 PM EST
    this unless you are a European......and then you would only be speaking for yourself.  I detected nothing hate filled in the NATO dude I met.  Sweet baby Jesus he works for NATO.  It was just the facts of financial life.

    Parent
    Because (none / 0) (#52)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:48:02 PM EST
    I spent a lot of time in Germany. The same fear by wingers here, that Mexicans are going to steal jobs, is fueled by the right in Europe, except instead of Mexicans, it is muslims.

    Parent
    hm (none / 0) (#27)
    by connecticut yankee on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:55:09 PM EST
    Given the problems europe is having with integrating its muslim minorities (legal and illegal), I doubt you'll see this any time soon.

    It would be similar to the US making Mexico the 51st state.  A highly charged third rail.

    But it's good for Obama to mention it for PR purposes. It's a cheap shot that makes us look enlightened for 10 seconds or so. We'll take it.

    Parent

    Yours Is The Cheap Shot (none / 0) (#33)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 12:59:48 PM EST
    The US has always been interested in Turkey for geopolitical reasons, namely energy and strategic location.

    Successive U.S. administrations have seen EU membership for Turkey as a way of further binding into the West a NATO member positioned strategically as a key energy hub between Europe and valuable energy resources in the Caspian Sea and beyond.

    Reuters


    Parent

    whatever (none / 0) (#37)
    by connecticut yankee on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:12:53 PM EST
    Obama knows his opinion isnt wanted on the matter. He knows you don't actually make headway by grandstanding that issue in public.

    The reaction of the EU shows the value of his input.  Obama already knew how they would react, it wasnt even much of a pitch to change minds, it was rhetoric in my opinion.  

    Parent

    Where is he on that campaign (5.00 / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:19:49 PM EST
    rehetoric on genocide of Armenians?

    Parent
    Funny you should ask (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by jbindc on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 01:22:10 PM EST
    The Armenians are not happy with Obama's remarks.

    President Barack Obama's delicate dance around a highly sensitive regional issue in Turkey Monday irked a small but influential American political constituency, which is accusing him of falling "far short" of a campaign promise.

    At issue is the recognition as genocide the deaths of 1.5 million Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman government in Turkey beginning in 1915.

    Obama has unabashedly encouraged such recognition in the past. But he notably dialed back his rhetoric at a Monday press conference in Ankara with Turkish President Abdullah Gul, for whose government the issue is still quite raw, and later in an address to the Turkish Parliament.

    Obama "missed a valuable opportunity to honor his public pledge to recognize the Armenian Genocide," said Aram Hamparian, executive director of the Armenian National Committee of America, in a statement.

    The Washington-based advocacy group endorsed Obama and boasts of helping deliver large blocs of votes in swing states and tens of thousands of dollars in campaign contributions. But on Monday, it was encouraging its members to call the White House to urge Obama "to be a man of his word and honor his pledge to recognize the Armenian Genocide" as well as to take action to stop the killing in Darfur.



    Parent
    Neard this on NPR this a.m. too. (none / 0) (#105)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 02:10:50 PM EST
    And thought:  aww aww. Hold on to your seat belts.

    Parent
    Yes, It's Disappointing (none / 0) (#101)
    by daring grace on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 10:12:42 AM EST
    The news now is that there may very soon be an announcement of an easing of tensions/re-opening of borders and resumption of communication between Turkey and Armenia. And, therefore, supposedly, this isn't the time to 'provoke' Turkish ire by raising the genocide issue.

    But I find this kind of tip toeing around acknowledging an atrocity to appease the descendants of the perps of that atrocity repugnant.

    I understand the diplomatic minuet that international leaders do in the interests of achieving things where we can all see the faster straight line course. But it seems to me an enormous healing on all sides could begin with a simple acknowledgment of the truth.

    But I'm not holding my breath.

    Parent

    Anyone read Huff Po yesterday (none / 0) (#44)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:31:30 PM EST
    re Ann Althouse marrying a long-time commenter on her blog?  Too weird and funny.

    Then there is Levi going on TV to explain himself.  Just stop--puhlease.

    3,000 pages? (none / 0) (#46)
    by lobary on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:35:21 PM EST
    How do you read 3,000 pages in two days? For your sake I hope the text is all double-spaced and in a very large font.

    I was hoping it was on CD w/ (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:37:09 PM EST
    a search function.

    Parent
    Not quite opening day. (none / 0) (#51)
    by lobary on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:45:01 PM EST
    Opening day is tomorrow for the fans of the twenty-eight teams not playing tonight.

    This is the longest day of the offseason.

    Here's to a successful 2009 for my Astros. I can't wait to exact revenge on the classless Cub fans for their disgusting display in Milwaukee last September the day after Hurricane Ike ravaged the greater Houston area. I will never forget how those goons acted towards the "home" team at Miller Park.

    Defense Cuts (none / 0) (#61)
    by squeaky on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:10:10 PM EST
    We are going to see big cuts in defense, (about time) and that may be one of the major reasons Obama kept Gates around.

    From Tom Ricks:

    Here is how my old friend (and uber-hawk) Tom Donnelly of the militarily promiscuous AEI puts it:
    Obama is going to be cutting defense budgets (and we shall see what happens in Iraq and Afghanistan) and Gates gives him top cover that no Dem can give. Obama needs Gates through this year's budget, the QDR process and the 2011 budget-build, and these are difficult defense issues that matter a lot more than gays or satisfying any of the party constituencies, because they could jeopardize Obama's domestic priorities. Gates, for reasons that I cannot quite figure out, has agreed to this Faustian bargain."
    Mostly acquisition costs (none / 0) (#69)
    by jbindc on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:41:48 PM EST
    seem to be where the savings will come

    The change from the 2009 budget to the 2010 is an increase of 4% in military spending, but spending for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will still be around $10 billion a month and are separate from the $533.7 billion in the regular Defense budget.

    A synopsis from the AARP:

    Slight increase sought for defense spending

    Agency: Defense

    2010 proposal: $533.7 billion

    Change from 2009: 4 percent increase

    War spending (addition to annual budget): $130 billion for 2010, $75.5 billion for 2009

    Highlights: Obama wants only a modest increase in defense spending for 2010.

    His proposal of at least $533.7 billion is only a 4 percent increase from estimated 2009 spending. Such a sizable sum shows the new administration plans to take a moderately conservative approach to the nation's defense.

    But some weapon systems may take big cuts as officials and contractors decide how existing programs fit into that budget after adjustments for inflation.

    Obama's request to Congress on Thursday also includes a separate $205.5 billion for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan between now and fall 2010. More than a third of the war money -- $75.5 billion -- would be spent before October, when the new budget year begins.

    Obama's senior defense advisers have warned that extraneous defense spending would be cut but said a detailed plan won't be released until April.

    The administration said Thursday that big-ticket programs were risky and vowed to set "realistic requirements" for military priorities.

    The administration said it also planned to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps and increase salaries for service members by 2.9 percent. It also will try to improve care for wounded veterans.

    While the rhetoric does not bode well for contractors developing pricey weapon systems, the 2010 budget plan still reserves a considerable amount for the military, including some $10 billion a month for combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    So, MT - looks like your husband might be getting a raise!

    Parent

    A few of us still know (none / 0) (#68)
    by SOS on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 02:35:32 PM EST
    how to experience non-manufactured realities. Life outside our mass produced kitsch culture.

    I have a concert tonight: (none / 0) (#82)
    by shoulin4 on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 05:24:55 PM EST
    Playing music I haven't played since middle school . . .

    Ah, the memories . . .

    Let me guess: (none / 0) (#85)
    by oculus on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 06:15:56 PM EST
    Victory at Sea and Colonel Bogey?

    Parent
    Actually, (none / 0) (#102)
    by shoulin4 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 12:56:52 PM EST
    St. Paul Suite (Holst) and Simply Symphony (Britten), two exceptionally fun pieces for beginning bass players. And then, after many years of playing bass, both of them still rox my sox!

    Parent
    Fun. (none / 0) (#104)
    by oculus on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 02:09:18 PM EST
    Are you in a community band or orchestra?

    Parent
    I play (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by shoulin4 on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 02:24:45 PM EST
    in the University Symphony Orchestra at Western Michigan University.

    Parent
    More pleasurable way? (none / 0) (#94)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 08:59:30 PM EST
    Don't know about that.  Just paid the HOA, Federal taxes (the "vig" to kdog), the credit card, the '09 plate fee for the vehicle and renewed the Rx's.  

    I was a bit queasy beforehand, now I'm downright ill.  Good thing property taxes aren't due for another month or two.  Sunday night is not a good night for the ER.

    Take heart my good man.... (none / 0) (#97)
    by kdog on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 09:37:38 PM EST
    money is disappearing out of the federal reserve bank faster than you can say qualifying deduction, it should trickle down any day:)

    This might cheer you up...visited the Shinnecock Nation today and they didn't shat on me for my fix.  Win some lose some, you'll get 'em next time.

    Parent

    Did you invest... (none / 0) (#98)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 09:45:08 PM EST
    ...in a case?  There's a place on the way to work that has the 72's BOGO, so it works out to about $2.75/pack.

    Watching my Sunday Night cartoons while keeping an eye on the snow falling, that always cheers me up a bit.  

    Parent

    Dude... (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by kdog on Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 08:18:35 AM EST
    I stocked up enough to be a jailhouse Thurston Howell III, if they still allowed smoking in prison that is:)

    Parent
    6.7 earthquake in Italy (none / 0) (#95)
    by nycstray on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 09:11:39 PM EST
    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A 6.7 magnitude earthquake struck central Italy on Sunday about 53 miles northeast of Rome, the U.S. Geological Survey reported.

    Being a CA gal, been there. Hoping for the best for the Italians in the area.

    Can they both lose....? (none / 0) (#96)
    by kdog on Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 09:22:30 PM EST
    Lets Go Mets!

    Sunday Open Thread | 103 comments (103 topical)

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