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Reactions to President Obama in Grand Junction

Sen. Mark Udall (D-CO) (received by e-mail, no link yet) on President Obama's speech on health care reform in Grand Junction today:

“I look forward to continuing the conversation about health insurance reform with Coloradans over the next several weeks. I want a bill that meets the needs of everyone in our state. I’m particularly focused on ensuring that any legislation we pass improves care for our rural communities and works for our small-business owners, who are the backbone of our economy. And I will have my constituents’ thoughts and suggestions in mind when I return to Washington.”

The full text of Obama's speech is here. Have you seen any public figures with a substantive reaction?

< Obama in Grand Junction: Live Thread | Sunday Morning Open Thread >
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    Interesting Rick Pearlstein Piece (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 08:10:54 PM EST
    Wonder if Obama read it before this Town Hall. He sure touched on some of the same points.

    So the birthers, the anti-tax tea-partiers, the town hall hecklers -- these are "either" the genuine grass roots or evil conspirators staging scenes for YouTube? The quiver on the lips of the man pushing the wheelchair, the crazed risk of carrying a pistol around a president -- too heartfelt to be an act. The lockstep strangeness of the mad lies on the protesters' signs -- too uniform to be spontaneous. They are both. If you don't understand that any moment of genuine political change always produces both, you can't understand America, where the crazy tree blooms in every moment of liberal ascendancy, and where elites exploit the crazy for their own narrow interests.

    WaPo

    The President writes separately (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:40:41 PM EST
    along the same lines in tomorrow's newspaper.

    Good Piece (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:50:25 PM EST
    And thank you NYT for anyone that did not know or was unsure:

    Barack Obama is the president of the United States.

    Parent

    Well Then (none / 0) (#1)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 07:01:33 PM EST
    I found his conversational style annoying or frustrating, similar to what I found hard to listen to during the primaries. His speeches are usually quite good though.

    All in all I thought he handled it well though. Seems clear that he wants to get a public option in and I thought it good tactic that he minimized it compared to the bigger picture.

    I liked that he put the death panel back to the GOPers. Although I would have liked a more direct shot.

    he still cannot answer the right wing... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Dadler on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 07:30:57 PM EST
    ...when it comes to their incessant talk of "how can these poor little insurance companies compete with a public plan run by a government that doesn't have to pay property taxes, etc.?"  because he has accepted the premise that whatever we do we MUST still allow these big companies to make their big profits.

    for heaven's sake, they have seen profits rise almost 500 percent in recent years, is he incapable of simply and logically answering "what possible bill are these companies not going to be able to pay at that rate of return?  do they not understand the meaning of the word 'enough'?  can they not settle for, say, 150 percent increases in profits?"

    then again, if he says that, logic tells you there is no reason for insurance companies sucking profit to come between people and their doctors.  which leads, again logically, to single payer.

    he is playing nothing but defense.

    Parent

    Yes, of course (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by NYShooter on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 08:52:52 PM EST
    The ineptitude of getting the message out there is really startling. Don't they have any ad agencies, or PR firms helping them with this?
    It's not rocket science.

    Buggy whip manufactures simply had to go away after the internal combustion engine was developed. Same with offset printers, VCR's, manual typewriters, and Kodak film. They just became obsolete, and the purpose of their existence disappeared. You don't need a college degree to understand this; people just accept it. It is progress, and it is good.

    Now, why the administration can't' use that logic regarding Health insurance is beyond me. They have outlived their usefulness. Keeping them in place is corporate welfare of the most insane type.

    As Somerby keeps repeating, the message should be "we pay twice as much (as any developed country), and get half as much" in return. They should shout it from the rooftops; all the statistics and polls confirm it. Also, to combat the lies about how awful health care in other countries is; they should flood the media with first hand testimonials from the people who live there, and prefer their system by about 80%
    I'm, sure as heck, no expert on advertising, but the truly confusing, amateurish way the administration has gone about is nuts.

    One last thought, let's have Emmanuel impose some discipline on who's allowed to appear on TV representing the President's plan. I'm a Democrat, but some of the spokespeople I see: desperate, ill-mannered, condescending, and just plain unlikeable, makes me want to jump up, smack'm in the face and tell'm to cool-it!


    Parent

    Its not that simple though (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Socraticsilence on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:22:05 AM EST
    while the Health Insurance industry, is bloated and unnecessary, it does provide millions of jobs- its kind of hard at the end of a recession to stand up and say we should add millions to the unemployment rolls.

    Parent
    A great many of these jobs are for administrative (none / 0) (#29)
    by allimom99 on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 11:11:29 AM EST
    paper pushers, most of whom would still be needed regardless of whether or nor there is a public option. The jobs issue is a red herring, IMO. Obsolete industries are changed and replaced all the time. you don't see a whole lot of calls to protect phone booth maintenance jobs from the onslaught of cell ohones, but there have been many jobs created by the cell phone industry, no?

    Parent
    I think that there is a simple answer (none / 0) (#9)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:34:26 PM EST
    Now, why the administration can't' use that logic regarding Health insurance is beyond me. They have outlived their usefulness. Keeping them in place is corporate welfare of the most insane type.

    Obama and the Congress do not want the health insurance industry to to go away like buggy whip manufactures, offset printers, VCR's, manual typewriters, and Kodak film. They want them to stay in place.

    The bills before Congress are basically corporate welfare of the most insane type because that is what Obama and Congress want.

    Parent

    Really? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:43:41 PM EST
    The bills before Congress are basically corporate welfare of the most insane type because that is what Obama and Congress want.

    Like what?

    And if your statement were true why is Obama even bothering considering that the corporate welfare is well fed.

    Are you suggesting that Obama and congress are involved in a charade to increase the current levels of corporate welfare, in the name of health care reform?


    Parent

    So (5.00 / 0) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:49:29 PM EST
    when has then being "well fed" ever stopped them from wanting more?

    Parent
    Wanting More? (none / 0) (#15)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:55:50 PM EST
    Well as you suggest, they always want more. That is corporate america. But that is not the point. You said:

    The bills before Congress are basically corporate welfare of the most insane type because that is what Obama and Congress want. emphasis added

    So if that is the case why even bother. Are you suggesting that Obama and congress want to increase corporate welfare? And this health care reform is all a charade?

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:02:52 PM EST
    that is NOT what I said. You need to look and see who the poster is.

    Parent
    Oh Sorry (1.00 / 0) (#17)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:11:31 PM EST
    I thought that was MO Blue.. guess you just joined in with a non sequitur.

    Parent
    Where is the $900 million (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by MO Blue on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:16:53 PM EST
    to $1 trillion dollars going? It is going into the bottom lines of the insurance industry.

    The House started out with a real public option. The insurance industry said they did not want to compete with a government run public option. So the House fixed it so that the public option could in no way compete with the insurance industry. Even that was not not enough to satisfy the industry. So now the Senate is saying that they can not pass a plan with a public option at all. They can only pass insurance industry co-opts.

    Parent

    Oh (none / 0) (#21)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 11:06:52 PM EST
    I thought that that money was coming out of insurance waste?

    Anyway, I will ask you again, do you believe that Obama and congress just were looking for a way to make Insurance companies richer?

    because:

    The bills before Congress are basically corporate welfare of the most insane type because that is what Obama and Congress want
    .

    And the whole health care reform is a sham made out of whole cloth just to distract us from a plot to increase corporate welfare to insurance companies?

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#3)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 07:36:37 PM EST
    I found that question answered, but it was frustrating. His line about USP v FedEx and UPS is good. Also would have been great to lay in the fact, as you make clear, that insurance rates go up, and their profits skyrocket.

    Insurance companies are exempt from many of the protections of Sherman anti-trust law.

    It is racket. I really despise insurance cos. particularly the health care ones.

    Parent

    Except for the fact USPS is in financial (none / 0) (#4)
    by Inspector Gadget on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 07:55:20 PM EST
    trouble, it is a good example of quality service.

    There are also some terrific protections built into the USPS business. It would be nice if we could see congress put similar exclusives in a healthcare bill.

    For instance:

    The U.S. Supreme Court has also upheld the USPS's statutory monopoly on access to letterboxes against a First Amendment freedom of speech challenge; it thus remains illegal in the U.S. for anyone other than the employees and agents of the USPS to deliver mailpieces to letterboxes marked "U.S. Mail."

    from wiki

    Parent

    USPS is a public service (none / 0) (#26)
    by DFLer on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 08:58:50 AM EST
    insuring postal service to every village and town...it should be subsidized...not a for profit entity.

    Parent
    Off (none / 0) (#7)
    by koshembos on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 08:56:05 PM EST
    Obama's late town halls are too little and too late. He cannot simply say, and probably understand, that under any arrangement if the the health insurance companies stay in business they will find a way to keep their yoke on the American people no matter what the reform is.

    After months of Washington pretzeling, we still don't know what the reform, or whatever it is, is going to look like. For Obama and the current town halls that is a shameful failure; he didn't even put up a fight.

    Well (none / 0) (#8)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:00:02 PM EST
    He talked about the health care system in the Netherlands. The Insurance companies are not out of business there and the system works. Hard for me to type, because I loath the ins cos.

    Parent
    It's absolutely true (none / 0) (#10)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 09:39:20 PM EST
    It's one of the reasons why I have hope that this can be made to work.

    Parent
    Might want to give this a gander: (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by Anne on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:16:50 PM EST
    An Experiment with Regulated Competition and Individual Mandates for Universal Health Care: The New Dutch Health Insurance System

    By Pauline Vaillancourt Rosenau, University of Texas, Houston, and Christiaan J. Lako, Radboud University Nijmegen, the Netherlands
    Journal of Health Politics, Policy and Law

    December 6, 2008

    The 2006 Enthoven-inspired Dutch health insurance reform, based on regulated competition with a mandate for individuals to purchase insurance, will interest U.S. policy makers who seek universal coverage. This ongoing experiment includes guaranteed issue, price competition for a standardized basic benefits package, community rating, sliding-scale income-based subsidies for patients, and risk equalization for insurers. Our assessment of the first two years is based on Dutch Central Bank statistics, national opinion polls, consumer surveys, and qualitative interviews with policy makers. The first lesson for the United States is that the new Dutch health insurance model may not control costs. To date, consumer premiums are increasing, and insurance companies report large losses on the basic policies. Second, regulated competition is unlikely to make voters/citizens happy; public satisfaction is not high, and perceived quality is down. Third, consumers may not behave as economic models predict, remaining responsive to price incentives. Finally, policy makers should not underestimate the opposition from health care providers who define their profession as more than simply a job. If regulated competition with individual mandates performs poorly in auspicious circumstances such as the Netherlands, how will this model fare in the United States, where access, quality, and cost challenges are even greater? Might the assumptions of economic theory not apply in the health sector?

    The rest of the article is available by subscription only, but here is more info:

    Why is this article so important? Simply because there is a rapidly building momentum for similar health care reform in the United States built on a model of competing private insurance plans (possibly with a public plan offered as an additional option). The recent Dutch reform has important lessons for us.

    Although the Dutch health care system was in far better shape than ours, their politicians decided that they could improve their system even more, while making it more affordable, by replacing their dual public and private insurance programs with a single market of competing private plans.

    They put into place the policies (listed in the abstract above) that we are currently discussing for our reform, which theoretically would regulate the market to ensure efficiency and prevent the private insurers from gaming the system. The Netherlands has provided us with a very instructive, real-life experiment on whether competing private plans would serve us well as a model for health care financing reform in the United States.

    The Dutch model was not initiated with a clean slate on policy principles. We now have decades of research and experience which should provide us with a basis for predicting, to varying degrees of certainly, the anticipated results of these policy applications.

    Essentially everyone agrees that market competition fails to provide greater value and control costs when applied to obtaining care within the health care delivery system. Many still believe, however, that competition between private health plans will achieve that goal. Consumers can shop based on differences in the private plans, while the insurers can contract with the providers, demanding the value and cost containment that we seek. Or so goes the theory.

    [snip]

    After almost three years of this experiment, what has happened? Health care costs have continued to grow well in excess of the rate of inflation. Health insurers attempted to keep their premiums affordable in order to gain market share, but because of insurer losses, premium increases have been greater than would have been anticipated based on the market competition theory. In spite of these premium increases, insurer losses have been increasing. Insurers with less penetration in the marketplace are now facing the necessity of consolidation.

    In another article in this same journal, Kieke Okma states, "... the trend of market concentration in Dutch health insurance and health care will likely continue. This might result in both higher prices and more-restricted access to health care services, both of which will not be too popular with Dutch patients and insured."

    Although there are many policy lessons for us in the Dutch experiment, there is one predominant message that the U.S. policy community must understand. Everyone agrees that costs absolutely must be contained, and we need to do that in a manner that repairs our fractured health care delivery system. The primary reason for the Dutch reform was this need for cost containment. But what is their position now?

    According to Rosenau and Lako, "In the face of initial failure to control costs, the reaction of the Dutch government has been to reiterate its faith in the free market for health insurance and to argue that cost containment was not an important rationale for the Health Insurance Act in any case (confidential personal interview, April 13, 2007)."

    With the insistence that the mandates of political feasibility require that the ideology of private plan competition displace sound health policies, the path that our national policy makers are currently negotiating places at grave risk both our finances and our health.

    Link

    Bold is mine.

    Parent

    Well, if it doesn't work, (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by andgarden on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 10:26:40 PM EST
    we'll have a reason, based on having tried everything, to put the private insurers out of business.

    Parent
    Here is More (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by squeaky on Sat Aug 15, 2009 at 11:24:45 PM EST
    link

    $145/month for the basic, which is more than I get for my $650/month in the US.

    Parent

    and by that time... (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Dadler on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:50:01 AM EST
    ...what would the further damage be to the economy, the working class, the national body (so to speak)?  the dutch are a nice little test case we should closely look at, and it seems it hasn't worked for them.  why would we adopt something on a much larger scale that already hasn't worked on a much more managable smaller scale?

    just asking.

    Parent

    Because It is Better Than What We Have Now (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by squeaky on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:51:16 AM EST
    By lightyears.

    Parent
    heads up (none / 0) (#25)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 12:59:50 AM EST
    if its by subscription, it's copyrighted and you can only quote a few paragraphs to make your point. I appreciate you wanting us to read the whole thing, but please, just quote the parts you need to make your point. Thanks.

    Parent
    The first part I quoted was (none / 0) (#27)
    by Anne on Sun Aug 16, 2009 at 09:12:41 AM EST
    the abstract; the rest of what I quoted was from a blog post at PNHP - I think I put links to both the abstract and to the blog post, didn't I?

    My mistake for the "here's more info" sounding like I had a subscription and was quoting further from it.

    Will be clearer in the future.

    Parent