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Wednesday Morning Open Thread

Why don't I discuss the Polanski case? Mostly because I do not know enough about it. Second, because even if I did, I doubt I would have much worth saying. Third, it does not strike me as an important public issue. It's not like however Polanski is treated here is going to affect public policy. He is sui generis. Fourth, I love Polanski's films and I would rather not think about how I feel about how his art may affect my views on this issue. Lastly, celebrity justice stories have never interested me.

Now if you want to discuss an actual important issue, like whether Tim Tebow should play against LSU on October 10 (he suffered a serious concussion last Saturday), I am game. Let me surprise you all and say I think he should probably sit out that game at least, if not more games. Better safe than sorry.

This is an Open Thread, and of course, the views expressed above are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of the NFL, the NCAA or TalkLeft.

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    I guess hoping to be spared (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:42:27 AM EST
    the moral high horse in one thread is to much to expect.


    "Moral high horse.' Good one. (none / 0) (#131)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:35:04 AM EST
    Tom Friedman (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:46:02 AM EST
    Did anyone read the op ed by Tom Freidman in the NY Times on the 29th? I'm not a fan of his but I do think he makes a very valid point on the state of the political discourse in this country today:

    Criticism from the far right has begun tipping over into delegitimation and creating the same kind of climate here that existed in Israel on the eve of the Rabin assassination.

    I dislike agreeing with (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:14:25 AM EST
    the Freidman unit but I agree.  someone is going to die.  that is becoming clear.  this will continue until someone dies.
    lots of people are starting to at least talk about this.  and I guess thats something.

    Parent
    Anyone else (none / 0) (#138)
    by jnicola on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:40:16 AM EST
    notice this article describing (the author wants you to be very clear that he's just describing and would never dream of advocating it) how a military coup against Obama might play out. Newsmax seems to have pulled it now, but Google cached it in time.

    Parent
    I wish Obama ... (5.00 / 1) (#182)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:57:05 AM EST
    were the guy his right wing enemies claim he is.

    Parent
    and the poll (none / 0) (#143)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:42:30 AM EST
    on facebook, also pulled, on if he should be killed.

    Parent
    He's forgotten (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:39:41 AM EST
    what went on here during the '90s.

    Parent
    I am waiting for his scathing article (none / 0) (#35)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:08:59 AM EST
    on the G20 riots in Pittsburg.

    He will write one, won't he?  Well???

    Parent

    Why would he? (5.00 / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:17:51 AM EST
    Me too... (5.00 / 0) (#50)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:23:11 AM EST
    the authorities were way out of line in Pittsburgh...and don't get me started on the cops dressing in camo pulling political kidnappings.

    Parent
    I see that sarcasm (2.00 / 0) (#78)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:44:45 AM EST
    is lost on you and MT this morning....

    The point was the lack of coverage of the G20 riots and condemnation by Pelosi, Reid, et al Demos and in the tank media vs the biased covered of those of the oh so destructive protests by those at the Tea Parties.....

    Parent

    Not lost... (5.00 / 0) (#81)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:47:27 AM EST
    just giving some right back old pal...maybe the G20 was more violent than the tea-parties because the police were less tolerant?

    Parent
    Which comes first?? (none / 0) (#91)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:59:58 AM EST
    A rioting grandmother or an mean evil policeman??

    Parent
    I think he means (none / 0) (#76)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:41:48 AM EST
    the thugs posing as "protestors"

    Parent
    "Police and Thieves... (none / 0) (#92)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:01:11 AM EST
    in the street...oh yeah."

    Just as many thugs posing as police or military..if not more.

    Parent

    HBO (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:54:59 AM EST
    is doing some interesting things beyond the criminal justice docs like the one on he who shall not be named.
    this for instance:

    HBO Imagine is a new website that aims to tell a story through interconnecting short clips as opposed to the linear format of today's TV show as well as different angles. And I mean that literally - you can change the camera angle of the clip and see "hidden" parts of the story. The more clips you watch, the more you unlock clips and clues.


    one other thing about HBO (none / 0) (#48)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:21:43 AM EST
    if anyone, anyone at all, has been moved to watch the aforementioned documentary and liked it by the discussions in the last couple of days, your next netflix pick should be these two amazing exceptional documentaries on the West Memphis Three.

    I have also been pimping these.  for longer than I have been pimping the other one.
    they are unbelievable.  they will make you want to tear your hair and rend your garments.
    if you think what happened to that girl was terrible try finding out what happened, and is still happening, to three completely innocent teenagers because they wore black clothes, listened to metal music and read Stephen King.

    two are in prison for life and one is on death row.


    Parent

    there is also a book (none / 0) (#58)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:27:03 AM EST
    if you are into that sort of thing.

    Devil's Knot : The True Story of the West Memphis Three

    From Publishers Weekly
    Arkansas investigative journalist Leveritt (The Boys on the Tracks) presents an affecting account of a controversial trial in the wake of three child murders in Arkansas. In May 1993, three eight-year-old boys were found mutilated and murdered in West Memphis, a small and tattered Arkansas town. The crime scene and forensic evidence were mishandled, but a probation officer directed the police toward Damien Echols, a youth with a troubled home life, antiauthoritarian attitudes and admiration for the "Goth" and Wiccan subcultures. Amid rumors of satanic cult activity, investigators browbeat Jesse Misskelley, a mentally challenged 16-year-old acquaintance of Echols, into providing a wildly inconsistent confession that he'd helped Echols and a third teen, Jason Baldwin, assault the boys. Leveritt meticulously reconstructs the clamorous investigation and two jury trials that followed. All three boys were convicted on the basis of Misskelley's dubious statements and such "evidence" as Echols's fondness for William Blake and Stephen King. Leveritt, who makes a strong argument that the convictions were a miscarriage of justice, also suggests an alternative suspect: one victim's stepfather, who had a history of domestic violence, yet was seemingly shielded by authorities because he was a drug informant for local investigators. Sure to be locally controversial, Leveritt's carefully researched book offers a riveting portrait of a down-at-the-heels, socially conservative rural town with more than its share of corruption and violence.
    Copyright 2002 Reed Business Information, Inc.

    From Library Journal
    Arkansas Times investigative reporter Leveritt explores the 1993 West Memphis Three murder convictions, which have been the subject of two HBO documentaries. The book is arranged chronologically, from the crime through the trial, and dispassionately dissects the prosecution's case against three teens who were convicted of the grisly murders of three eight-year-old boys. Leveritt interviewed the principals, reviewed the police file and trial transcripts, and leads the reader to conclude from her exhaustive research (430 footnotes) that the case was botched, improperly based on a single confession from a retarded youth and the defendants' alleged ties to satanic rituals. Well written in descriptive language, the book is an indictment of a culture and legal system that failed to protect children as defendants or victims. Highly recommended.
    Harry Charles, Attorney at Law, St. Louis
    Copyright 2002 Reed Business Information, Inc.



    Parent
    The HBO documentary on Polanski ... (none / 0) (#54)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:25:38 AM EST
    "Roman Polanski: Wanted and Desired" is also one of Netflix's "watch instantly" titles.

    So anyone curious about the case can bop on over to Netflix and watch it right now.

    It's very good.


    Parent

    have you seen the others (none / 0) (#59)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:27:40 AM EST
    I mention above?
    if not you should.

    Parent
    No ... (none / 0) (#66)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:32:40 AM EST
    but I will try to.

    But, as you might imagine, my "to watch" pile is gigantic.

    Parent

    this is not directed at you (none / 0) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:38:37 AM EST
    but its interesting.  for years I, the Dixie Chicks and lots of other people, have been trying to get people to pay attention to this case.  with very little luck.  I have developed a theory about why this is.

    people do not want to know.  once it starts being clear what happened they simply tune out and I think I know the reason.

    if you accept what is related in those docs and that book it will change your world forever.  if you accept that what happened to those boys could  happen to you or anyone you know (it absolutely could) it forever changes your world and you live every day of your life knowing that you are one maniac cop away from life in prison or death row if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    people simply do not easily accept what happened in West Memphis.

    Parent

    I think you're right ... (none / 0) (#183)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:58:39 AM EST
    people like stories like this in fiction.  Hitchcock made a career out of them.  But they don't like accepting them as a reality.

    Parent
    Open thread? (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:21:09 AM EST
    I haven't commented on Polanski for pretty much the first reason you list here.  I don't know nothing.  I don't think I even knew he was a fugitive.  I have only seen one of his movies (Chinatown) which I loved.  I must admit after reading all about him here it definitely puts the ending to that movie in a new light.  Weird...

    onto more important subjects - the pats look like they are slowly coming together.  The defense is doing just fine thank you and Tom will eventually get his sea legs.  I think mid-season when Mayo and Welker return they will be a serious force to be reckoned with - not that they aren't already.

    The sox... need to pick it up a bit.  Sure, they made the playoffs last night since the Rangers lost, but it would be much more encouraging to find out that the ace pitchers are healthy.  Going to the sox game tonight, doesn't count for anything, but I never turn down free tickets.

    And finally, as of yesterday, I'm officially in what Cream City's acquaintances would call the "late 20's".  Halfway to 50, not quite a milestone, but memorable nonetheless.

    Happy Birthday CST! (none / 0) (#57)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:26:54 AM EST
    Being on the Earth a quarter of a century certainly is a milestone.

    Parent
    Focus on the Sox.... (none / 0) (#60)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:27:43 AM EST
    The Pats ain't doin' d*ck this year...there's a new beast of the east...unless I just jinxed it:)

    Parent
    Got so wrapped up in... (none / 0) (#80)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:45:22 AM EST
    Pats hate I missed that it was your birthday...hope it was awesome.

    So many super-cool ladies born at this time of year...you, our gracious hostess, and my special lady's birthday is today....the stars must align or something:)

    Parent

    And what is the special lady's (none / 0) (#148)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:45:11 AM EST
    gift from kdog?  We need follow up, man.

    Parent
    Played it safe... (none / 0) (#152)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:50:37 AM EST
    roses and chocolate to be delivered today...couldn't make up my mind and ran outta time.  As well as a kdog original epic love poem in the mail.

    Parent
    You certainly started thinking about (none / 0) (#154)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:53:50 AM EST
    what to give her early enough.  Good choice.  Love to read that poem!  But I know it is private.  Maybe she will publish later.

    Parent
    Yeah Oc... (none / 0) (#185)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:01:28 PM EST
    Sorry...her special eyes only...and she better not publish it!

    Just got her on the phone during my lunch break...I don't think she thinks I sent anything so she should be in for a surprise when she gets home tonight:)

    Parent

    I'd bet (none / 0) (#82)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:48:00 AM EST
    both teams make the playoffs this year.  But the pats are definitely in for the long haul.  How's that defense looking now?  Do you really think the Jets keep a confident Brady to 10 points later in the season?

    I must admit, I am more afraid of the Yankees and Giants than the Jets this year, although none of them make me comfortable.  Frikkin NY...

    Parent

    I think we... (none / 0) (#85)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:51:04 AM EST
    tear his freakin' head off in Foxboro!

    The Jets have pumped me up and let me down ad naseum my whole life...but somehow this team seems different, I'm probably just self-deluding:)

    Parent

    Sounds like... (none / 0) (#90)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:58:19 AM EST
    ...Coach Ryan has got you fired up and ready to run through a wall!

    You really shouldn't bottle your Pats hate up so much--let it flow through you...

    /18-1

    Parent

    18-1 (none / 0) (#98)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:07:54 AM EST
    That's what I'm hoping for this year!

    Parent
    Ah... (none / 0) (#102)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:13:30 AM EST
    ...so young and full of hope!  Too bad those hopes will be dashed 10/11 in the friendly confines of Mile High Stadium when pupil bests teacher...

    Parent
    he's not a pupil (none / 0) (#149)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:48:29 AM EST
    he's a mole :)

    Parent
    This team does seem different (none / 0) (#108)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:19:50 AM EST
    I thought maybe I was self-deluding also, but perhaps not {grin} They almost seem to have the "it" factor that's been missing . . .

    Parent
    We'll have more info... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:35:50 AM EST
    after this Sunday...big test against the juggernaut Saints...Drew Brees is the best in the business right now.

    Parent
    Well, he can be controlled (none / 0) (#155)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:54:52 AM EST
    proof of that last weekend. He's my fantasy QB. Sanchez is my BU and wiped the floor with Brees points wise . . . .

    Dang, next weekend's going to be hard. I'll be pulling for the Jets to take down Brees, which could lead to a loss in my fantasy league {pout}.

    Parent

    Root for a Jets blowout.... (none / 0) (#187)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:06:23 PM EST
    with lots of garbage time yardage for Brees:)

    Parent
    Oh - you must mean the Ravens... (none / 0) (#100)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:10:47 AM EST
    :P

    Baltimore at NE should be a good game on Sunday; we've had a kick-butt defense for a long time - thank you, Rex Ryan! - but now that we have an offense?  It's what the other teams have always dreaded would eventually happen.

    Maybe, kdog, you could be a Ravens fan on Sunday...

    Parent

    No doubt... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:22:32 AM EST
    I've got two favorite teams every week...the Jets and whoever is playing the Pats...Go Ravens!

    Actually I can add a third team back to the mix...whoever is playing the Dolphins...now that Pennington is out I can hate them freely once again:)

    Parent

    be careful (none / 0) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:33:31 AM EST
    on that ice this winter.

    you dont want to break a hip and be laid up for months

    ;-)

    happy bday

    Parent

    Happy Birthday youngster :) (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:34:50 AM EST
    Happy Birthday (none / 0) (#93)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:02:22 AM EST
    Hope you had a wonderful day and the next 25 years are kind to you.

    Parent
    Thanks everyone (none / 0) (#96)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:06:14 AM EST
    definitely a weird combo of feeling young and feeling old, although I'm not exactly worried about breaking a hip yet :), I certainly can't quite hang like I used to.  kdog - it's true - Libra's are just cooler :)

    Parent
    Hey! Happy B-Day from . . . (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:17:12 AM EST
    another 9/29er!  :)

    Libra's ROCK.

    Parent

    Happy B-day (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:28:10 AM EST
    to you too!

    Parent
    Happy Birthday (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:32:48 AM EST
    to you from another Libra. My BD isn't for another couple of weeks but definitely true

    Libra's ROCK.


    Parent
    Now its official... (none / 0) (#117)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:25:38 AM EST
    nycstray a Libra too?  If I ever reproduce (god help you all), I'm gonna try and family plan for a late September birth...just look at the track record:)

    I was a fool to ever mess with them Scorpios:)

    Parent

    It is always foolish... (5.00 / 2) (#127)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:32:54 AM EST
    ...to mess with a Scorpio.

    Parent
    Learned that one the hard way... (none / 0) (#144)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:42:42 AM EST
    back in the day...sweet as peaches when things are running good, but I think Scorpios were in mind when the 'woman scorned' thing was penned...they get nasty:)

    Parent
    Indeed... (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:16:29 AM EST
    ...we don't take being crossed very well.  Vengeful lot we are.

    Parent
    Sh*t yeah... (none / 0) (#192)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:23:51 PM EST
    it was the last time I was punched in the face.

    All I did was go out drinking all night and not come home...mild misbehavior for the man of the house in my house growing up, to her it was something heinous...hit me with a right left right like she was Sugar Ray Leonard...turned right around in search of my friends and another drink:)

    Parent

    Dude, you're lucky... (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:30:18 PM EST
    ...to still be alive after that kind of misconduct.  

    Parent
    No sh*t! (none / 0) (#201)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:37:48 PM EST
    Quit dissing Scorpio women, Kdog.... (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:35:55 PM EST
    Some of us are quite nice!
    You just need to learn how to keep us happy all the time. You can accomplish that by doing WHAT we tell you to do, WHEN we tell you to do it and by showing proper gratitude that you have been chosen to do so. Like I was sayin, some of us are quite nice.....!

    Parent
    ha (none / 0) (#178)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:20:31 AM EST
    speaking as a Scorpio these are words to live by.

    Parent
    no family planning necessary (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:42:52 AM EST
    mine sure didn't.

    Just get really drunk on New Year's :)

    Parent

    lol!~ (none / 0) (#156)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:56:30 AM EST
     

    Parent
    Happy Birthday! (none / 0) (#184)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:00:17 PM EST
    Hope you have a wonderful day!

    I've got a Libra husband (10/12) and a Libra daughter (10/9), so I'm pretty partial to Libras...

    Here's to a great year ahead for you!

    Parent

    Happy b'day! Nycstray and CST. (none / 0) (#198)
    by vml68 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:27:21 PM EST
    What time is the party Nycstray? My invitation seems to have gotten lost in the mail... :-)

    Parent
    Those were the days (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:18:40 AM EST
    I always looked at 25 as a great age to be. (Even when I was a teenager) I would still be young enough to be idealistic, but old enough to accept reality! I would have set a path to follow in my life by then.

    Looking way back now. I think I was right. It was a great time in life for me.

    Just celebrated a somewhat depressing 60th on the 26th!

    Parent

    Never thought that I would look (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:37:29 AM EST
    forward to turning 65 but my health insurance premiums are killing me financially so I'm now happy to reach that age. Medicare starting Oct. 1st is a god send.

    I think I missed wishing you a Happy Birthday. So belatedly I wish you a great year.

    Parent

    Thanks (5.00 / 2) (#159)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:58:23 AM EST
    The best news on all this HCR junk is that by the time it takes effect I'll be one year till Medicare so I might be able to avoid jail time for noncompliance!

    Parent
    Cheer up. Think of all the discounts (none / 0) (#169)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:10:23 AM EST
    you get now.  

    Parent
    Yeah, but the morale hit (none / 0) (#202)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:56:16 PM EST
    when you ask for the "senior discount" can be pretty tough.

    Parent
    Definitely true (none / 0) (#121)
    by MO Blue on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:29:43 AM EST
    Libra's are just cooler


    Parent
    Happy Birthday, CST! (none / 0) (#101)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:13:08 AM EST
    The run from 25 on should be amazing - really the best years of your life, so enjoy the bounty that age brings!

    And - Ravens fan here: should be quite a game on Sunday!

    Parent

    The very best birthday wishes to (none / 0) (#203)
    by caseyOR on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 02:01:34 PM EST
    CST and nycstray. Hope you both have a great day and a very good year.

    Parent
    Yes, a Happy Birthday! (none / 0) (#166)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:07:03 AM EST
    Even though you consistently root for the wrong sports teams in my book.

    ;-)

    Parent

    and yet ... (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by Maryb2004 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:44:22 AM EST
    you continue to bring him up.  

    You may not intend a message but you are sending one:  that you want to be able to continue to watch and enjoy Roman Polanski's films without being bothered in your head with images of him possibly raping a 13 year old girl.  

    Good luck with that.

    And don't forget (5.00 / 3) (#104)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:14:58 AM EST
    he plead guilty to it....

    Parent
    He pleaded guilty to violation of (none / 0) (#150)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:49:08 AM EST
    PC 261.5, not "rape."  

    Parent
    Someone asked this question yesterday (none / 0) (#123)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:31:18 AM EST
    Why am I not commenting on the Polanski situation.

    I thought in an Open Thread I could explain my thinking.

    Of course, since people like to talk Polanski anyway, I'll admit to giving them an excuse.

    Parent

    I don't particularly (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:37:14 AM EST
    care to talk about the repulsive bug but if he comes up I'm not going to hide the fact that I consider him or his actions disgusting.

    Parent
    Studio Ghibli fans (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:49:08 AM EST
    rejoice

    Studio Ghibli has revealed its next project to be Taketori Monogatari, aka The Tale of the Bamboo Cutter which is one of the oldest surviving Japanese folktales and a first for Studio Ghibli to adapt a folktale.

    More good news too as the articule also revealed Hayao Miyazaki is in discussions with studio staff to make two more feature-length films in the next 3 years.

    sanity fans (none / 0) (#97)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:07:52 AM EST
    despair

    Paperback Nonfiction

    Top 5 at a Glance
    1. GLENN BECK'S `COMMON SENSE', by Glenn Beck

    Parent

    Per Brother Dave (none / 0) (#103)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:14:28 AM EST
    If the world is wrong, right thine own self....

    Parent
    HUZZAH! (none / 0) (#168)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:08:48 AM EST
    All I want for Christmas is all of Miyazaki's films, in the original language, with accurate subtitles.  Once got a "subtitled" version and the English subtitles were word for word what the dubbed version was.  Dubbed versions have to match the animation, so they usually are  inaccurate translations.

    Parent
    remember John Lassiter (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:12:16 AM EST
    in your prayers.  I was at disney around the time they began their distribution deal with them.
    the movie I remember hearing about was Spirited Away (one of the very best IMO).
    Roy Disney wanted to butcher it because it was "not suitable for american audiences"
    read: not brain dead enough for typical disney fans.
    Lassiter threatened to quit if he did it and he won.
    hence they do not edit or change the films in any way.


    Parent
    Yes, Lassiter is my hero. (none / 0) (#197)
    by Fabian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:20:42 PM EST
    I think the reason Pixar is so successful is that he took Miyazaki's lessons to heart.  The minute you start compromising on quality, you may as well resign yourself to mediocrity because that's where you are headed.

    Parent
    remember John Lassiter (none / 0) (#174)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:12:28 AM EST
    in your prayers.  I was at disney around the time they began their distribution deal with them.
    the movie I remember hearing about was Spirited Away (one of the very best IMO).
    Roy Disney wanted to butcher it because it was "not suitable for american audiences"
    read: not brain dead enough for typical disney fans.
    Lassiter threatened to quit if he did it and he won.
    hence they do not edit or change the films in any way.


    Parent
    I hate when that happens (none / 0) (#175)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:12:53 AM EST
    Big list of Cert grants today from the S.Ct. (5.00 / 1) (#157)
    by scribe on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:56:32 AM EST
    The justices took 10 cases, including
    (a) the constitutionality of the material support of terrorism statute;
    (b) whether the Second Amendment is (or should be) incorporated on the states;
    (c) whether the police can cajole you into waiving your Miranda rights;
    (d) who finds and facts and the burden of proof for a 30 year mandatory minimum for allegedly using a machinegun in a crime; and
    (e) a case which almost replays last term's Ricci case reltaive to discrimination in firefighter promotions.

    These will all be argued after the turn of the year.

    The Second Amendment (none / 0) (#186)
    by eric on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:06:09 PM EST
    case is interesting.  Reading the opinion I see that the Seventh Circuit really teed that one up for the Supreme Court.  That was an almost guaranteed cert.  Heh.

    Parent
    For those who like their baseball played outside (4.00 / 1) (#87)
    by lambert on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:51:59 AM EST
    Dr. Paul Hochfeld, Mad As Hell  emergency room physician at the Good Samaritan Hospital, Corvallis OR, on Democracy Now:
    This public plan option, at least as it's written in HR 3200, is a lame, failed, designed-to-fail public plan option. It's not available until 2013. When it's available, it's not available to people who get insurance from their employers. Those are healthy people. It's not available to people who are upper middle class or wealthier. Those are healthy people. So the public plan option is designed to attract the sickest, most expensive people. And when it fails in 2017 or 2018, by design, the insurance industry is going to point at it and say, "See, the government can't do healthcare." And it'll be the wrong lesson. And I just--this whole thing is being manipulated by the industry with our legislators being complicit in this process.

    So, I guess the "What could go wrong?" question is taken care of.

    NOTE Cue the cries of "idiot!"

    I dunno about that (5.00 / 2) (#89)
    by CST on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:56:29 AM EST
    There are a whole lot of young, healthy, people who don't get healthcare from their employers.

    In fact, I would say that's one of the biggest groups of uninsured, if not the biggest.

    Parent

    People who get coverage... (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:04:21 AM EST
    ...through their employers are not as a rule "healthy".  Employer provided coverage (guaranteed issue) is the only way that many people can obtain health care due to their medical conditions.  

    Parent
    Q poll shows Christie (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:05:10 AM EST
    Gore Vidal, unplugged (none / 0) (#2)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:18:23 AM EST
    It gets a little far-fetched, but interesting...(sorry it's so long, but he's quite a pistol!)

    Link

    Last year he famously switched allegiance from Hillary Clinton to Barack Obama during the Democratic nomination process for president. Now, he reveals, he regrets his change of heart. How's Obama doing? "Dreadfully. I was hopeful. He was the most intelligent person we've had in that position for a long time. But he's inexperienced. He has a total inability to understand military matters. He's acting as if Afghanistan is the magic talisman: solve that and you solve terrorism." America should leave Afghanistan, he says. "We've failed in every other aspect of our effort of conquering the Middle East or whatever you want to call it." The "War on Terror" was "made up", Vidal says. "The whole thing was PR, just like `weapons of mass destruction'. It has wrecked the airline business, which my father founded in the 1930s. He'd be cutting his wrists. Now when you fly you're both scared to death and bored to death, a most disagreeable combination."

    His voice strengthens. "One thing I have hated all my life are LIARS [he says that with bristling anger] and I live in a nation of them. It was not always the case. I don't demand honour, that can be lies too. I don't say there was a golden age, but there was an age of general intelligence. We had a watchdog, the media." The media is too supine? "Would that it was. They're busy preparing us for an Iranian war." He retains some optimism about Obama "because he doesn't lie. We know the fool from Arizona [as he calls John McCain] is a liar. We never got the real story of how McCain crashed his plane [in 1967 near Hanoi, North Vietnam] and was held captive."

    Vidal originally became pro-Obama because he grew up in "a black city" (meaning Washington), as well as being impressed by Obama's intelligence. "But he believes the generals. Even Bush knew the way to win a general was to give him another star. Obama believes the Republican Party is a party when in fact it's a mindset, like Hitler Youth, based on hatred -- religious hatred, racial hatred. When you foreigners hear the word `conservative' you think of kindly old men hunting foxes. They're not, they're fascists."

    Another notable Obama mis-step has been on healthcare reform. "He f***ed it up. I don't know how because the country wanted it. We'll never see it happen." As for his wider vision: "Maybe he doesn't have one, not to imply he is a fraud. He loves quoting Lincoln and there's a great Lincoln quote from a letter he wrote to one of his generals in the South after the Civil War. `I am President of the United States. I have full overall power and never forget it, because I will exercise it'. That's what Obama needs -- a bit of Lincoln's chill." Has he met Obama? "No," he says quietly, "I've had my time with presidents." Vidal raises his fingers to signify a gun and mutters: "Bang bang." He is referring to the possibility of Obama being assassinated. "Just a mysterious lone gunman lurking in the shadows of the capital," he says in a wry, dreamy way.

    Vidal now believes, as he did originally, Clinton would be the better president. "Hillary knows more about the world and what to do with the generals. History has proven when the girls get involved, they're good at it. Elizabeth I knew Raleigh would be a good man to give a ship to."The Republicans will win the next election, Vidal believes; though for him there is little difference between the parties. "Remember the coup d'etat of 2000 when the Supreme Court fixed the selection, not election, of the stupidest man in the country, Mr Bush."

    SNIP

    Today religious mania has infected the political bloodstream and America has become corrosively isolationist, he says. "Ask an American what they know about Sweden and they'd say `They live well but they're all alcoholics'. In fact a Scandinavian system could have benefited us many times over." Instead, America has "no intellectual class" and is "rotting away at a funereal pace. We'll have a military dictatorship fairly soon, on the basis that nobody else can hold everything together. Obama would have been better off focusing on educating the American people. His problem is being over-educated. He doesn't realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is. Benjamin Franklin said that the system would fail because of the corruption of the people and that happened under Bush."


    Longtime fan of Vidal's writing and intellect, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:54:46 AM EST
    realizing he is very imaginative, OK, loopy if some prefer that word.

    I agree with him again here, and he identifies the main reason I supported Hillary over Obama:

    Hillary knows more about the world and what to do with the generals.

    I think I said pretty much that same thing in posts here. I think Obama is going to get played by the generals continuously.

    Sorry Vidal had his change of heart - and I believe it was his heart and never his mind - and switched to Obama. I wish I thought he was influential enough for it to have mattered.

    Parent

    Coincidence? I am listening to Vidal's (5.00 / 0) (#115)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:23:38 AM EST
    "The Golden Age."  When the year 2000 rolls around there is a discussion about, what is it "Saloon"?  "Salon"?  Witty book.  

    Parent
    A perfect example of why (2.00 / 0) (#6)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:31:43 AM EST
    celebrities should be seen and not heard.

    Which brings me to this.

    BTD, have you ever criticized people for boycotting/demonstrating against a "star" because of their political statements?

    Parent

    You don't think (2.00 / 0) (#31)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:05:12 AM EST
    Vidal is a celebrity?

    Try the dictionary:

    "a famous or well-known person"

    And I think most people, but certainly not you, were smart enough to realize that I dismissed his meows and caterwauls as being the typical celebrity writings which are similar to how the Platte River has been described.

    A mile wide and one inch deep.

    And of course 9/11 was a PR gig...... All those people jumping to their deaths rather than burn to death were just extras in his oh so brilliant mind in which all the world is a stage and he the author.

    Parent

    Ah yes (2.00 / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:35:49 AM EST
    the war on terror has destroyed the airline business... which Vidal's Father started...

    What an educated comment he makes... His concern for others is vastly overstated, eh??

    And I mangled what??? Is that like opining Bush "wasn't competent enough to state 9/11?"

    I see that your concern over the terror and torture of those dying in the WTC matches Vidal... Perhaps if they had been waterboarded???

    Parent

    When I comment on every comment (none / 0) (#109)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:20:25 AM EST
    made by Vidal I will seek help. You?

    ;-)

    You can duck and weave but my point remains. Vidal is more self centered than a black hole, as demonstrated by by his airline comments.

    And forget 9/11 if you want. That is certainly to the terrorists advantage!

    Parent

    More cowbell! (none / 0) (#88)
    by lambert on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:55:41 AM EST
    nt

    Parent
    Nope (none / 0) (#23)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:55:53 AM EST
    I am not anti-boycott anything.

    It is a form of expression imo.

    Parent

    I hate it when I agree with a Gator (none / 0) (#32)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:05:54 AM EST
    95% of Americans... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Dadler on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:40:20 AM EST
    ...have no idea who Gore Vidal is, and that's probably too conservative a figure.  He is not a celebrity by any measure.  Perhaps he was a well-known literary and social figure at one time, but a celebrity like movie and rock stars or even well known pols?  You must be joking.  

    Parent
    As I noted below, Vidal (none / 0) (#153)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:51:14 AM EST
    at one time -- mostly the 60s and 70s  -- was much closer to being an actual "celebrity" (of the public intellectual variety of course), since as a telegenic best-selling author and name-dropping gadfly he regularly guested on some popular tv and radio shows.

    But that was then, a time when a dozen or so intellectuals and writers were a fairly regular part of the national dialogue in the major media and thereby became much more well-known even by the great unwashed than people of more recent vintage might suspect.

    Parent

    Vidal and other intellectuals were known to me (none / 0) (#195)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:59:46 PM EST
    because of Buckley's "Firing Line" and the Dick Cavett Show. Also, on rare occasion, David Suskind and David Frost. But it was on Cavett's show that we regularly saw interviews with writers like Mary McCarthy, Lillian Hellman, Gore Vidal and Norman Mailer. Vidal is right -- times have changed and we are living in an intellectual wasteland. The media is mostly filled with "reality shows" so offensive for their stupidity it's wonder anyone would dare to produce a smart episodic show. The money's not there. Most people have never heard of Gore Vidal, while Miley Cyrus and Lindsay Lohan are in the "news" everyday. We are living in the Paris Hilton Era. Blech.

    The only talk show host with literary and intellectual guests today is Charley Rose. But he's relegated to 2:00 p.m. on PBS, when no one's watching. Plus, he's too enamored of celebrity and the sound of his own voice for me to want to sit through it.

    Parent

    Oh goodness (none / 0) (#8)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:38:44 AM EST
    the "real story" of how John McCain crashed his plane?  Gosh!

    Parent
    "Near" Hanoi? That lake is smack dab (none / 0) (#110)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:21:13 AM EST
    IN Hanoi.

    Parent
    Vidal can be a bit loopy (none / 0) (#12)
    by lilburro on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:44:12 AM EST
    but I enjoy reading his essays from the 60s and 70s.

    Parent
    Well, the 60s and 70s were (none / 0) (#141)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:41:14 AM EST
    about the last time Vidal was relevant and had something interesting and fresh to say.  And I do miss those lively appearances on nat'l teevee back in the day with Mailer and Buckley, the ones that led to near on-air fisticuffs and actual off-air lawsuits.    

    Since then, he's been largely marginalized in the MSM, as he's made some curious choices about controversial theories and notorious people to support, while his glooming and dooming about our dying democracy has become depressingly predictable.

    Re the 2008 election, I don't think I'm alone among political junkies on this side of the Pond who wasn't aware that Vidal had "famously" switched his support from HRC to Obama.

    Otherwise, take out all the nonsense he spouts about JFK, FDR and Pearl Harbor, Timmy McVeigh and a few other odd items, and I find myself largely in agreement with Vidal ...

    Parent

    not everyone in Chicago (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:26:37 AM EST
    wants the olympics:

    Two reasons.  One: The Bid Committee and other boosters are claiming the price tag will hit $4.8bn.  Anyone who buys that is stoned. Try twelve double-extra-large for 2016.  At least.  London 2012 is at £9.35bn ($14.8bn-ish) right now.  And this is Chicago.  Five guys, two shovels, and a smiling alderman.  Come the hell on.

    Two: we got other problems.  Last week, a kid on the South Side got beat up by a bunch of other guys, right in the street.  Reportedly, he was just an innocent bystander.  The fatal blow apparently came from a railroad tie.  Novel.  Usually, it's a second-hand gun.

    Look: one or two kids a week are getting shot.  There are square miles that are totally blighted out.  The CTA is perpetually within a few months of meltdown, or catastrophic failure, or both.  And so on.  Having the Olympics will paper over these festering problems, and many others, while spending desperately needed money on... a real estate development.

    COME ON, RIO.  BAIL US OUT.  PLEASE AND THANK YOU.

    no dog in this fight.  I just think its an interesting perspective.

    To this day... (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:00:56 AM EST
    ...there are still people with VERY strong emotions about our (non)hosting the '76 Winter Olympics--on both sides.

    The con-side rattles on about the up-front costs and the adverse effects on the enviroment and the pro-side laments all of the lost consumer spending, investment and infrastructure.  It was very contentious having been awarded the Games by the IOC, but voted down in a referendum.

    The same arguments that occured prior to SLC hosting their games--and most are happy with the outcome for them (especially the light rail system and other civic improvements).  The same arguments that will boil to the surface as Colorado's movers and shakers quietly look at bidding for the '18 and/or '22 Winter games.  

    The problems mentioned in the above quote are certainly nothing new for the Windy City--or any big city for that matter.  

    Parent

    The pro view (none / 0) (#10)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:40:11 AM EST
    The only problem with that argument is that every major city that could handle an Olympic event has the same problem. The crime rate in Rio is off the charts.

    I was recently up in Vancouver and saw just how much money was being pumped into the city in renovations to prepare for their winter Olympic's. (And it isn't all tax dollars either). Business is investing a lot of money into the venture.

    I think the positive aspects of hosting the Olympic's out weigh the negative. The improvements of the intrastructure to the city will last long after the Olympic's are gone.

    Parent

    like I said (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:49:30 AM EST
    no dog in the fight but I wonder how much the residual stuff actually helps a place like Chicago.
    and how much other things needing funds suffer.
    the person who wrote that seems to think more sports stadiums is not the most pressing need.

    and I would say he is probably right about the price tag.

    Parent

    I thought I heard the new (none / 0) (#18)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:51:15 AM EST
    venues/structures were going to be temporary and that is partly how they intend to keep costs down?

    Parent
    to me (none / 0) (#25)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:57:36 AM EST
    that seems to make even less sense.

    Parent
    It's the Chicago way (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:29:40 AM EST
    again, and the historic way of some such events.  The historic Chicago world's fair of 1893, the famous "white city," went up as temporary structures, too . . . although one structure was rebuilt on site to endure and still is there.  

    Know which one?

    (And other structures were transported to other cities -- one is in mine.  There are fun websites about what happens to some of these "temporary" structures that end up elsewhere; it's an entire subgenre for history buffs.)

    Parent

    Museum of Science and Industry? (none / 0) (#73)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:39:26 AM EST
    Or whatever it is called now...it has changed since my 3rd grade field trip!

    Parent
    Ding, ding! A winner. (none / 0) (#111)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:21:35 AM EST
    And I bet there have been even more millions of us there on school field trips than the 27 million who went to the Chicago World's Fair in 1893, huh?

    Parent
    I've always found it sad that (none / 0) (#172)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:12:11 AM EST
    all those exciting and dramatic world's fair structures -- Chicago 1893, SF 1915, NY 1939 or 1964 -- so appealing to the eye, were torn down after the fairs ended, instead of leaving the major parts intact as a basis for building a new, compact, pedestrian-friendly and fun mini-city within a city.

    As for the 1893 Chicago Fair, tip of the hat to that still too neglected great genius Nikola Tesla whose AC lighting system put that fair in the all-time history books.

    Parent

    For sure, didn't mean to (none / 0) (#181)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:53:12 AM EST
    leave out SF's PoFA structure, along with the Exploratorium inside.  Been there many a time, especially on Sunday walks.  Quite a dramatic view as you suddenly come upon it rounding the corner from the nearby PH neighborhood.

    I just lament there aren't more such visually stunning views still available in more cities from our past world's fair efforts.  Too many of our urban buildings are just brutally cold structures built with only the bottom line in mind.

    Parent

    found it (none / 0) (#56)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:26:53 AM EST
    link

    I'm not sure how common temp structures are, but it struck me as odd.

    Parent

    Hey, Montreal got a stadium! (none / 0) (#116)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:25:24 AM EST
    You're underestimating gang problems (none / 0) (#19)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:53:31 AM EST
    in Chicago in recent months.  It's gotten out of control again.  I read the local media there.

    Parent
    if you dont believe that (none / 0) (#24)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:57:08 AM EST
    try watching this.

    you might want to turn the stomach churning sound down though.


    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#55)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:26:42 AM EST
    I'm the one stating that the problems there for youth (and others caught in the chaos) are not to be underestimated.  Meant to reply to someone else?

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#64)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:31:17 AM EST
    not directed at you

    Parent
    Terrorism (none / 0) (#52)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:24:22 AM EST
    That's why I feel we don't have to go to the Middle East to find terrorism. Millions of American's live with terrrorism in cities across the country. Yet I see little effort to combat it here.

    Parent
    Redefining terrorism (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:36:59 AM EST
    to mean nothing more than violence is not helpful.

    Parent
    Not redefined (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by mmc9431 on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:33:09 AM EST
    What is terrorism? The legitimate fear that at any moment someone may kill you. That every day your kids go to school,they may be an innocent victim of a drive by shooting. That there are gangs roaming your neighborhood, lying in wait.

    Living continously in terror is a very real form of terrorism

    Parent

    There's also the political considerations (none / 0) (#44)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:17:15 AM EST
    There's never been an Olympics held on the South American continent, so that may tip the scales toward Rio. That, and the fact that the US just hosted the 2002 Winter Games, and the 2010 Winter Games will be in Canada / North American continent.  And while many people abroad may love Obama, some may think it's a bit pushy and tacky to have Barack, Michelle, AND Oprah pushing for the games to come to Chicago.

    Parent
    I didn't realize... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:20:09 AM EST
    South America has never hosted...Rio should be a no-brainer then.

    Parent
    I think a Rio olympics would be interesting (none / 0) (#61)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:27:44 AM EST
    I think a Rio... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:29:15 AM EST
    anything would be interesting...one of these days I gotta get my arse to Carnival!

    Parent
    Carnival is what I was thinking (none / 0) (#65)
    by nycstray on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:32:12 AM EST
    for atmosphere :) And just seeing some of their culture etc.

    Parent
    Perhaps Capoeira will become an (none / 0) (#120)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:28:11 AM EST
    Olympic event.

    Parent
    oh, and happy (none / 0) (#4)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:29:35 AM EST
    rabies day.
    it was monday but whatever.

    Lesson to be learned... (none / 0) (#5)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:31:36 AM EST
    from a member of the NYPD...always refuse the blood test.  You may be cooked anyway, but you don't have to dive in to the boiling pot voluntarily.

    Better still...don't drive all f*cked up.  What a tragedy.


    love the alternate linked stories (none / 0) (#15)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:47:09 AM EST
    # 'Flammable' bras hold back Swedish female conscripts (22 Sep 09)

    # Swedish nurse suffers burns after hand gel rub  (24 Sep 09)

    # Peeing in indoor pools increases asthma risk: Swedish study (9 Sep 09)

    Parent

    I tried to warn you guys:)... (none / 0) (#7)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:38:01 AM EST
    the unintended consequences of hand sanitization hysteria has begun...a school in ashes in Sweden.

    Wait till our hooligans learn of the flamability, we're a little slow but when we catch on we go big!

    Missed your warnings but (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:03:56 AM EST
    it seems to me that putting that stuff on your hands before eating cannot be a good idea. I was really grossed out this summer when the friends I went to the UK with pulled it out at every meal. Finally at one point the 17 yr old son of my friends rebelled and refused to use it - guess he noticed they were the only ones in the restaurant whose food smelled like hand sanitizer.

    I did not get involved in the little family squabble that ensued, but I was silently applauding his stand!

    Parent

    Polanski (none / 0) (#9)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:39:28 AM EST
    himself is not a public issue. However, the exploitation and abuse of children(over 44% of rapes are committed against people under the age of 18 according to the DOJ) by people and the inequities in our system that allow notable people to escape or receive lesser punishment are public issues. Polanski is a case in point. It is positively offensive that someone could sexually assault a child and potentially ruin that person's life for YEARS(not months)and walk away with less than 2 months for their crime. It's positvely heinious.

    Is there a high incidence of (none / 0) (#20)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:54:33 AM EST
    "notable people" taking advantage of underage women?

    That seems unlikely to me.

    R. Kelly and Polanski come to mind. But if the number rises above 10, I would be surprised.

    Parent

    You could also add the recently deceased (none / 0) (#69)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:35:01 AM EST
    Michael Jackson to the list. I'd posit the numbers of young rape victims are higher than you suspect considering the acceptance and excuse making coming out of the Hollywood subset for Mr Polanski. There seems to be some warped viewpoint that because she was 13 in a Hollywood environment that for some odd reason that made her the equivalent of capable of making adult decisions. No wonder so many young women in Hollywood are trainwrecks.

    However, my second point was not aimed specifically at the crime of rape. Look at the difference between treatment of someone like Robert Downey Jr or Rush Limbaugh as compared to the average citizen caught with drugs.

    Parent

    I am not excuse making at all (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:26:55 AM EST
    I am not saying anyone should be cheering for Polanski or ignoring what he did.

    I am explaining that the idea that "celebrity predators" as a public issue seems outlandish to me.

    Parent

    There are predators from all walks (none / 0) (#147)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:45:06 AM EST
    of life. What I find egregarious is that many of this man's supporters seem to think this man's noteriety should protect him from having to pay the as I see it extremely small price of his "indiscretion." As if somehow engaging in sexual activity with a thirteen year old is some sort of acceptable pecadillio. Ick. Everyday unrolls a new excuse as to why his actions shouldn't be considered "rape-rape".

    Parent
    Please, TL does not permit speaking (none / 0) (#130)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:33:30 AM EST
    ill of the deceased.  

    Parent
    speaking ill (5.00 / 1) (#188)
    by Inspector Gadget on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:07:50 PM EST
    is one thing, telling falsehoods is another. MJ was never convicted of anything because the cases were never believable enough to get a conviction.

    Parent
    It's not necessarily about celebrity (none / 0) (#113)
    by jnicola on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:22:39 AM EST
    Sticking to comparison's with Polanski, because I already did the research in the earlier thread...

    A ten minute search throws back the following cases in California which share similarities with the Polanski case and where the defendants do not seem to me to have been significantly worse treated, despite their lack of celebrity.

    Here's a guy who was convicted of statutory rape under CPC 261.5 (one count), lewd and lascivicious conduct with a minor using threats of force under CPC 288a(b)(1) (four counts), and lewd and lascivicious conduct with a dependent minor using threats of force under CPC 288a(b)(2) (two counts). He got six months County time and probation.

    Here's someone who was convicted of statutory rape under CPC 261.5 and lewd conduct with a dependent minor using threats of force under CPC 288(b)(2). He got five years probation.

    This chap started his recorded criminal career in April 1989, when he was convicted of possession of a narcotic substance for sale. In November 1989, he was convicted of receiving stolen property. In May 1990, he was convicted of carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle.  In March 1993, he was convicted of misdemeanor battery.  In April 1994, he was convicted of committing battery causing serious bodily injury. In August 1994, he was convicted of taking a vehicle without the owner's consent. In April 1995, he was again convicted of misdemeanor battery, sentenced to 75 days in jail, and placed on probation. With all of that on his record - in 1995, he was convicted of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor under CPC 261.5, given 15 days in jail, and placed on probation.

    Another one, who was accused of drugging and raping his sister, was charged with rape by use of a controlled substance (CPC 261(a)(3)), incest (CPC 285), transporting a controlled substance (HSC 11379(a)), committing a controlled substance violation through use of a minor (HSC 11380(a)), unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor (CPC 261.5 (c)), use of a controlled substance (HSC 11550 (a)), indecent exposure (CPC 314(1)), and two counts of committing degrading, immoral, or vicious practices in the presence of children (CPC 273 (g)). He agreed to plead guilty to the incest charge and was given three years probation.


    This guy
    molested one child and raped another. He was charged with unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor more than 10 years youger (CPC 261.5(c), rape by a foreign object (CPC 289(h)), misdemeanor child molestation (CPC 647.6(a)]) and lewd act on a child (CPC 288(a)) and convicted on all counts. His sentence was 1 year local time and 5 years probation, despite having fought all counts instead of pleading, and despite having been convicted on all counts.

    All of these cases are far more recent than Polanski's, and for better or worse, statutory rape was treated less seriously then, particuarly of 'bad girls'. I don't think time served, at 42 days, was an outlandish sentence given the circumstances of the time.

    Parent

    Sorry (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by jnicola on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:23:26 AM EST
    for the grocer's apostrophe in the first line.

    Parent
    42 days is outlandish (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:32:27 AM EST
    during any particular time. Rape is a crime that changes a victim's perspective for YEARS. I see no reason a perpetrator should get off with a sentence of MONTHS.

    Parent
    I believe the point is (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:41:09 AM EST
    contrary to recent hysteria the sentence was not outside the norm.


    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#151)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:50:16 AM EST
    googling I have found everything from 6 months to 10 years for similar acts. It doesn't say much about our society that someone can destroy a person's life and trust and walk away with the equivalent of a slap on the wrist.

    Parent
    good! (none / 0) (#158)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:57:45 AM EST
    I see real progress here.
    today we can all opine on the injustice of the laws and not on how Polanski "got special treatment that was completely outside the bounds of normalcy - etc etc".

    and etc

    Parent

    The fact (none / 0) (#165)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:04:38 AM EST
    that he has legions of apologists for him is "special treatment" enough for me. I don't recall Whoopi Goldberg using TV time to excuse any of the other rapists for their behavior.

    Parent
    real (none / 0) (#167)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:08:36 AM EST
    progress

    Parent
    How many of them (5.00 / 1) (#133)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:37:01 AM EST
    Fled the jurisdiction before sentencing?

    Parent
    thank you (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:31:58 AM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#142)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:41:20 AM EST
    Then you must have been appalled at Michael Vick's sentence - that only involved dumb dogs!

    Parent
    You bring up a great point (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by cawaltz on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:02:17 AM EST
    then again this is the same country that believes that showing a breast on network TV should be worth millions in fines while exploiting a worker from another country only should net a $10,000 fine.

    We definitely seem to have some value issues from where I am sitting.

    I will admit to being biased on the issue of predators. I have had more than a passing familiarity with them and the subject.

    Parent

    are you simply (none / 0) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:44:08 AM EST
    incapable of acknowledging the point being made?


    Parent
    The point being...? (none / 0) (#161)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:59:29 AM EST
    That we should all jsut say "Oh, it's ok you raped a 13 year-old.  Some other people have gotten similar (unbelievable) sentences, so we shouldn't be outraged?"

    That point?

    Parent

    incabable (5.00 / 1) (#164)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:02:47 AM EST
    got it.

    Parent
    Pot....kettle (none / 0) (#171)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:12:08 AM EST
    Re: Tebow and concussions (none / 0) (#16)
    by magster on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:47:32 AM EST
    Keep that in mind (none / 0) (#26)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:57:59 AM EST
    when John Elway runs for office.

    Parent
    He is a Republican booster... (none / 0) (#33)
    by magster on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:06:13 AM EST
    ...now we know why.

    Parent
    That was before the Wildcats (none / 0) (#37)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:11:22 AM EST
    He is now a committed Democrat...

    Parent
    oopps I've been nested ;-) (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:12:13 AM EST
    Do you really think he'll run? (none / 0) (#36)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:09:00 AM EST
    I know the powers-that-be in the GOP keep pushing the issue, but I have a hard time seeing it.  

    Does someone who nearly had a melt-down when the press did a story about what kind of Halloween candy he handed out really have thick enough skin to survive the kind of scrutiny that running for Gov/Senator would put him under?  

    I think he'll be content to sling steaks, do his radio show and enjoy his new bride.

    Parent

    His new bride makes him unelectable (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by rdandrea on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:22:29 AM EST
    He married a former Raiders cheerleader.  One doesn't do that in Colorado.

    Imagine the negative ads!

    Parent

    Certainly doesn't help... (none / 0) (#75)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:40:08 AM EST
    ...however with the Raiders being soooo lousy of late and Shanny gone, people may cut him a little slack on that.

    Now, his politics are a whole different story.  

    Parent

    There's been zero mention of it... (none / 0) (#42)
    by magster on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:16:29 AM EST
    ...in the 2010 race, unlike the 2008 race.  He's also doing more media and NFL analysis and was prominently in the front row of the Rockies game last night.  He seems content to enjoy his $ like a good Republican.

    And speaking of the ROCKIES....

    Parent

    Nice! (none / 0) (#51)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:23:29 AM EST
    Five more wins please!  I didn't watch the game last night, as I'm addicted to the National Parks series on PBS, so thanks for the vid.

    Looks like a real good crowd for a Tuesday night game.  And a great ending for the home-town team and the fans.

    Parent

    And for Padres fans. You should have (none / 0) (#137)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:39:09 AM EST
    heard the cheers here during Dodgers/Padres game.  Score followed by video highlights of the game on the Jumbotron.  Take that, Dodgers.

    Parent
    Did he hand out apples with razor blades (none / 0) (#136)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:37:42 AM EST
    in them, pennies?  What?

    Parent
    Reese peanut butter cups. What's (none / 0) (#189)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:12:10 PM EST
    wrong with that?

    Parent
    Not a thing... (none / 0) (#191)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:21:58 PM EST
    ...but a hissy fit was thrown that the local papers had the nerve to actually report what the Duke of Denver was passing out.

    Big fish, little pond and some thin skin.

    Parent

    Bueracracy run amok... (none / 0) (#27)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 08:58:09 AM EST
    I have a hard time even imagining why a school would ban kids from walking or riding their bikes to school, or what authority gives them the right to even attempt such a ban...Jeez Louise.

    That's not bureaucracy (none / 0) (#79)
    by eric on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:45:03 AM EST
    that's policy, and an insane one.

    The biking debate started last spring, when school district officials told Kaddo Marino that Adam was violating school rules by biking to class. Walking to the school also is not permitted.

    Huh?  The story mentions this, the craziest, most outrageous "policy" half-way down the story.  Do they not even realize how insane this is?  I have never heard of such a thing.  What an absolutely bizarre country we live in.

    Parent

    Policy... (none / 0) (#83)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:49:05 AM EST
    set by school bueracracy run amok...and it is f*ckin' insane, you said it.  

    Parent
    Guess my walking two miles to school (none / 0) (#162)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:59:42 AM EST
    every morning after I worked an hour would make a criminal out of me in today's world.

    Forest just so right.

    Parent

    Lucky me... (none / 0) (#190)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:14:15 PM EST
    my elementary school was only two blocks away, was walking by myself from the 2nd grade on, even had to (gasp!) cross a busy street!

    Parent
    Deal (none / 0) (#29)
    by Yando on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:01:28 AM EST

    Okay, let's prosectue  Polanski
    for screwing a teenager.
    But  before that, let's prosecutle Bush and
    Cheney for war crimes. More recent, more bloody,
    more criminal.
    Deal?

    He didn't "screw" her (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by shoephone on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 01:08:28 PM EST
    He plied her with qualudes and booze and raped her.

    Get the difference?

    Parent

    In your mind (2.00 / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:16:58 AM EST
    two wrongs make a right?

    Parent
    at least (none / 0) (#34)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:08:00 AM EST
    they did not give the children "drugs" before killing them.
    thats something.

    Parent
    I'm not big on sports (none / 0) (#40)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:16:19 AM EST
    But I did happen to listen to Bryant Gumbel do a special on concussion in teen athletes while cleaning house a few days back. Scary how an unhealed concussion in teens can lead to an almost instant death if they try to continue to take hits in a game like football.  I realized that I had never even thought about long term brain damage done to young athletes outside of boxing either.

    Some nurses... (none / 0) (#41)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 09:16:29 AM EST
    still making noise about the H1N1 vaccine mandate...give 'em hell nurses!  Damn right you own your body!  Any of you can treat me without the shot anytime.

    I hadn't heard the first shipment will be the nasal mist, not the shot...the nasal mist contains a live virus that is dangerous for pregnant women or those with immune system issues.  An FDA rush job live virus to spray up your nose...sounds pretty sketchy if you ask me, I hope the brainiacs know what they're doing.

    Grandson just went (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:09:20 AM EST
    back to school after  H1N1.... Very healthy kid and he was taken to the doctor within hours of a fever spike. Still sick as a dog for two days.. Take the spray or the shot or whatever.

    Parent
    Several of my students have had it (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Cream City on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:59:25 AM EST
    now, and also recovered after rough bouts, but that it has surfaced in my classes has has kept other high-risk students away from school -- one is pregnant, another a recent kidney transplant recipient, for example.  For their sake, I hope that others on campus get the vaccine.  And I'm glad that our campus health workers already all are signed on to get it right away, as they would be the first to be in contact with it and transmit it.

    Btw, I got the seasonal flu shot last week and had one of the rare reactions -- a bad night of fever, a couple of days of fatigue.  But I planned for the possibility by having it before the weekend, so I haven't missed any classes yet.:-)  As I'm also at high risk, I consider the brief reaction better than contracting the flu and almost inevitable complications with my health condition, as those have taken me down for weeks in past.  And now, at least I won't be transmitting that flu to the hundreds of others daily with whom I am in contact, too.  

    Parent

    listen (none / 0) (#106)
    by Capt Howdy on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:18:09 AM EST
    to Jim

    Parent
    The boy ok now I hope? (none / 0) (#122)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 10:30:57 AM EST
    Sorry to hear that Jimbo....but no thanks on the vaccine, I'm straight.

    Parent
    Thanks and yes he's fine (5.00 / 1) (#194)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:42:45 PM EST
    and I guess he won't need the H1N1 vaccine. (He's had the regular flu vaccine.)

    The problem is this. If you catch the Swine flu because you didn't take the vaccine and then give it to someone else..... You gonna pay their freight?

    And I know that's a tough point but societal responsibility and all that.

    Parent

    Huh? (none / 0) (#176)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:15:56 AM EST
    The Empire State Building is going to be alit in red and yellow today to celebrate the 60th anniversary of communist China.

    Why are we celebrating a communist achievement?

    Who are "we"? (none / 0) (#193)
    by Steve M on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 12:38:17 PM EST
    I am not an owner, in whole or in part, of the Empire State Building.

    Parent
    No need for a lawyer if you can just (none / 0) (#180)
    by vicndabx on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 11:43:01 AM EST
    While I realize it doesn't matter, (none / 0) (#204)
    by Dr Molly on Wed Sep 30, 2009 at 05:06:05 PM EST
    I am disappointed in you on this topic. Particularly,

    Third, it does not strike me as an important public issue.