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Monday Morning Open Thread

Busy day for me.

Open Thread.

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    Colombian airliner crashes (none / 0) (#1)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:45:40 AM EST
    on San Andres Island, one fatality, four seriously injured, out of about 140 passengers. Amazing luck there.

    The pics are pretty horrible looking (none / 0) (#31)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:08:04 PM EST
    plane broke into about 3 big chunks during the landing, some say while it was still in the air. Amazing luck.

    Parent
    Sarc, you've been to that airport, (none / 0) (#37)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:15:42 PM EST
    haven't you? I haven't been there. It's supposed to be fabulous, though.

    Parent
    Ya, I flew there from Cartagena. (none / 0) (#40)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:22:21 PM EST
    Beautiful tropical island. Some of my favorite South America stories are from the 2 nights I spent there...

    Parent
    with Dan Quayles son (none / 0) (#2)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 10:52:21 AM EST
    running this year there has been a new focus on his idiotic quotes.  among other things.  man, what a lucky guy he was to have Dubya to steal all the idiotic headline ink.
    Dubya did Dan a gigantic favor.
    of course my favorite is still the mars quote:

    "Mars is essentially in the same orbit . . . Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."


    "Dan Qualyle's Son"... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:29:44 AM EST
    show the man some respect will ya?  That's
    "Mr. Brock Landers" to you buddy...

    Parent
    One of the first Unix scripts (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:02:00 PM EST
    I ever wrote was a Quayle quote of the day generator. These were the ones that made me giggle most:

    You all look like happy campers to me. Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been, and, as far as I am concerned, happy campers you will always be.
    Speech to American Samoans (April 1989)

    Hawaii has always been a very pivotal role in the Pacific. It is in the Pacific. It is a part of the United States that is an island that is right here.
    Press comment in Hawaii (25 April 1989)




    Parent
    Doesn't seem fair to Ms. Palin does it. (4.00 / 1) (#90)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:07:59 PM EST
    FYI:  Squeaky, I am not defending her.

    Parent
    Yes - it's not like we've never seen (none / 0) (#120)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:07:57 PM EST
    an idiot before.

    Parent
    Quayle (none / 0) (#124)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:13:12 PM EST
    was before the 24 hour news cycle.  I think that has a lot to do with it.

    Parent
    or at least (none / 0) (#125)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:13:45 PM EST
    on the waxing cusp of it.

    Parent
    Sweet Jesus. (none / 0) (#3)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:01:17 AM EST
    I'm just dreading what will have to happen before we as a society decide that as to the Quayles  three generations of idiots are enough.

    Parent
    maybe he would have (none / 0) (#5)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:04:18 AM EST
    to get caught posting regularly to a raunchy porn site.

    oh, wait.

    Parent

    No way (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:13:16 AM EST
    Could I get any farther behind on my gossip?

    Parent
    hereza (none / 0) (#8)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:16:49 AM EST
    the link (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:17:27 AM EST
    is to Wonkette not Dirty Scottsdale

    Parent
    I did it (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:39:06 AM EST
    I went to the website.  Strange place

    Parent
    As "Boogie Nights"' star (none / 0) (#58)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:50:36 PM EST
    "Brock Landers".

    Oh, yeah.

    Parent

    The surprisingly sleazy Tom Cruise? (none / 0) (#89)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:06:37 PM EST
    only sruprising to (none / 0) (#91)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:08:59 PM EST
    those who ignore rumors

    Parent
    You're thinking of some other movie (none / 0) (#135)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:43:16 PM EST
    Brock Landers was a character played by Mark Wahlberg in this movie.

    Parent
    I believe he was (none / 0) (#141)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:49:58 PM EST
    Dirk Diggler


    Parent
    Allow me... (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:58:43 PM EST
    since I've seen this excellent film 100 times.

    Mark Wahlberg played Eddie from Torrance, who took the pron name "Dirk Diggler" in the film..."Brock Landers" was a pron character in one of Jack Horner's (played by Burt Reynolds) productions, played by Dirk Diggler aka Eddie from Torrance.

    Parent

    ah (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:00:43 PM EST
    thank you.
    the only think I remember about that movie is the last 45 seconds.


    Parent
    William H. Macy... (none / 0) (#153)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:42:19 PM EST
    steals the show, imo, as tragic character "Little Bill".

    "Go away, Bill, you're embarrassing me!"

    Parent

    Frank T. J. Mackey in "Magnolia." (none / 0) (#156)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 06:52:10 PM EST
    I have never seen this one (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:03:00 AM EST
    I was just a punk back then.  I do everything I can to not think about Dan Quail but I do remember this one

    "I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people"


    Parent
    Hejust wanted to talk bluntly (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by jeffinalabama on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:07:22 AM EST
    to the Centurions and the Caesars, that's all...

    Parent
    You Would Think... (none / 0) (#9)
    by ScottW714 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:17:00 AM EST
    With a last name of Quayles, that kid might have a humongous chip on his shoulder, how he ever rose to run for anything is astonishing in it's own right.

    Bush did that whole family a favor.

    Parent

    Palin (none / 0) (#12)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:18:14 AM EST
    in loafers

    Parent
    Tom DeLay cleared by Justice Dept (none / 0) (#11)
    by jbindc on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:18:03 AM EST
    Of dealings with Jack Abramoff after 6 years of investigation.

    The Justice Department has informed former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Texas) that the government has ended a six-year investigation of his ties to the disgraced lobbyist Jack Abramoff, according to DeLay's lead counsel in the matter, Richard Cullen, chairman of McGuireWoods.

    The investigation lasted through two presidents and four attorneys general. Its demise provides a stark footnote to the lobbying scandals that helped Democrats regain the House majority they held for 40 years and lost in the Republican revolution of 1994, which eventually made the pugnacious DeLay one of Washington's top power brokers.

    "The federal investigation of Tom DeLay is over, and there will be no charges," Cullen said. "This was one of the longest and expensive and thorough investigations in recent memory. DeLay took a tack right from the start that he had nothing to hide, and we have been in a routine and constant dialogue with [prosecutors].

    "I'm sure he wishes it didn't take six years of his life, with a cloud hanging over him. I am pleased with the outcome. They just took longer than we would have preferred. He said he was gratified and thanked us."

    Cullen said he was pleased there were no leaks from the government as the investigation ground on. "They played fair," he said.



    Wow, if he had nothing to hide (none / 0) (#64)
    by republicratitarian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:09:21 PM EST
    why did it take 6 years? Did it say how much the investigation cost?

    Actually I shouldn't complain. Everyone is entitled to their fair shake. 6 years though, wow. I didn't realize they were still investigating him.

    Parent

    cat fashion show (none / 0) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:23:01 AM EST
    Animal Rights FAIL :) (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:44:31 AM EST
    Public humiliation......it isn't just for your kids anymore.

    Parent
    It's official (none / 0) (#14)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:28:11 AM EST
    even when I had 8 cats, I didn't come close to the "Crazy Cat Lady" label :-P

    when I see one of those looks on my felines, I avoid . . . .

    Parent

    I'll be back in a mo to thank you (none / 0) (#22)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:51:51 AM EST
    after I go get something to clean my computer screen.  The link is absolutely hilarious!

    Parent
    The Nazis came to town this weekend (none / 0) (#16)
    by me only on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:30:44 AM EST
    Unfortunately I had a trip planned with the family.  I really wanted to protest the march by dressing up as Hitler and screaming at the Nazis that they are undesirables and if this is all "I" can attract "I" would rather be dead.

    I'm being a very good brother (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:40:35 AM EST
    My sister is having a passport problem and I'm on the train to help solve it.

    Meanwhile, yellow splotches and a thermal warning on my iPhone 4. Life on the bleeding edge. . .

    I fully expect Apple to take care of me.

    You ARE a good brother (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:45:09 AM EST
    Tks (none / 0) (#30)
    by andgarden on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:06:52 PM EST
    The best part: she found it and I'm turning around in Trenton.

    Parent
    Oh, shoot. I was hoping we'd get to guess (none / 0) (#92)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:09:32 PM EST
    where you are.  Trenton!

    Parent
    heres the problem (none / 0) (#19)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:40:50 AM EST
    right wing news (yes, its really called that) decided to conduct a survey of right wing bloggers to find the 25 worst people in american history.
    heres the list with the number of votes after the name:

    1. Saul Alinsky (7)
    2. Bill Clinton (7)
    3. Hillary Clinton (7)
    4. Michael Moore (7)
    5. George Soros (8)
    6. Alger Hiss (8)
    7. Al Sharpton (8)
    8. Al Gore (9)
    9. Noam Chomsky (9)
    10. Richard Nixon (9)
    11. Jane Fonda (9)
    12. Harry Reid (9)
    13. Nancy Pelosi (9)
    14. John Wilkes Booth (10)
    15. Margaret Sanger (10)
    16. Aldrich Ames (11)
    17. Timothy McVeigh (11)
    18. Ted Kennedy (14)
    19. Lyndon Johnson (14)
    20. Benedict Arnold (17)
    21. Woodrow Wilson (17)
    22. The Rosenbergs (19)
    23. Franklin Delano Roosevelt (21)
    24. Barack Obama (23)
    25. Jimmy Carter (25)

    so Jimmy Carter is number one and John Wilkes Booth is number 10.  like I said.  
    this is the problem.


    Can we play? (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:58:22 AM EST
    I think I gotto go with John Anslinger.

    Parent
    You're nothing (none / 0) (#33)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:13:26 PM EST
    if not consistent, dog :)

    Parent
    Yep, John Anslinger (none / 0) (#39)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:20:59 PM EST
    but, Harry Anslinger is right up there with him, but started earlier.

    Parent
    The Dulles brothers (none / 0) (#42)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:28:51 PM EST
    Richard Helms..followed by the Hillside Strangler and the Son of Sam..

    Parent
    Michael Eisner (none / 0) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:33:50 PM EST
    has to be in there someplace

    Parent
    Pete Rose.. (none / 0) (#50)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:43:35 PM EST
    and whoever started (none / 0) (#51)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:45:15 PM EST
    MTV and Reality TV..

    Parent
    Mark Burnett (none / 0) (#57)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:48:44 PM EST
    #1

    Parent
    Reality TV. . . (none / 0) (#95)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:18:49 PM EST
    The Hit King? (none / 0) (#53)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:46:18 PM EST
    Charlie Hustle...surely you jest.

    He is on my moms worst list though...she's Buddy Harrelson's #1 fan:)

    Parent

    I took you (none / 0) (#60)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:54:37 PM EST
    for the Harrelson guy..my bad. It's the thought that counts :)

    Parent
    Love Buddy... (none / 0) (#62)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    but gotta respect Pete...the guy could hit, and I like how he played the game.

    Agree 100% with his reasoning for barreling down Fosse in that All-Star game..."if you don't wanna get run over don't block the plate".

    Parent

    in an All-Star game? (none / 0) (#93)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:10:19 PM EST
    that's the get-ahead-at-any-cost instinct triumphing over the solidarity instinct, imo..

    Also, the points-for-style part of me never liked that red faced, constipated batting stance of his..But now I guess Im looking for things to pick at..

    Parent

    You don't remember that? (none / 0) (#98)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:23:03 PM EST
    Fosse was never the same, basically ended his career...I only know it from highlights and baseball history books.

    Where was Fosse's solidarity when he decided to block the plate in an All-Star Game?  Pete was right...rough & tough, but clean.

    I thought of the incident recently when I saw Carlos Beltran of The Mutts meekly slide and give himself up when a catcher blocked the plate, rather than be the battering ram for the team...he's clearly no Pete Rose, and the Mutts record reflects a lack of Rose-like heart and hustle....which appears reserved for when a closer decides to have a donnybrook with his old lady's father.  Amazin' Amazin' Amazin'.

    Parent

    Remember it? (none / 0) (#103)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:34:30 PM EST
    Quite well. I was listening to it on the radio. So what if Fosse blocked the plate? Again, it's a frickin' All-Star game, not the World Series.

    Rose gets five minutes in Hell eating a Clemente's sh*t-lettuce and tomato sandwich..

    Then he can go in the Hall.

    Parent

    Well that argument goes both ways... (none / 0) (#109)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:44:52 PM EST
    why block the plate if its just an All-Star Game?

    Could be that both players instincts took over, and both were taught the right way to play the game...regrettable injury, but it ain't golf ya know?  

    If Pete joins Ty in hell, they've got better hitters than heaven:)

    Parent

    his "all I did was make Fosse famous" (none / 0) (#127)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:20:24 PM EST
    crack didn't do wonders for my admittedly cranky attitude toward Rose..

    Also, if I remember correctly, the throw came in on the third base side, and there really wasn't a lot Fosse could do other than jump out of the way, which he'd never live down.

    Im sure instinct played some part in the whole thing..

    Parent

    Diplomacy... (none / 0) (#132)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:32:09 PM EST
    was never his strong suit...point taken.  

    Parent
    And that donnybrook was set off (none / 0) (#138)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:48:50 PM EST
    heh (none / 0) (#25)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:00:13 PM EST
    I was struck more by this:

    9.Timothy McVeigh (11)
    7.Ted Kennedy (14)

    For all the complaints about "raising taxes in a depression" these days, I'm surprised no one mentioned Hoover.  Oh wait... no I'm not (too much like G.W.B.).

    Parent

    What strikes me the most is that (none / 0) (#28)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:02:45 PM EST
    Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't even make the RW list...

    Parent
    no history buff (none / 0) (#35)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:14:54 PM EST
    but werent the Rosenbergs innocent?

    Parent
    Reasonable doubt existed... (none / 0) (#46)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:37:05 PM EST
    I can tell ya that much.

    Parent
    Particularly in the case (none / 0) (#100)
    by KeysDan on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:23:42 PM EST
    of Ethel Rosenberg.  Her role involved typing notes from her brother, David Greenglass, to be passed on.  Later David said that it was his wife, Ruth, who was the typist and he lied at trial (with the urging of the prosecutor) for immunity and his and his wife's lives.

    David Greenglass is still alive (born 1922) and his grand jury testimony will not be released until he is deceased.  Ethel and Julius' children Robert (age 6) and Michael (age 10) in 1953, took the surname of their foster parents: Meeropol.  Both worked hard over the years to determine the truth, one now a professor and the other an attorney.

    Parent

    google is my friend (none / 0) (#47)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:37:17 PM EST
    The verdict predictably outraged the left--both defendants had been Communists in the 30s--but even Pope Pius XII made a pitch for clemency. The critics fell into two camps: some believed the defendants were innocent; others felt that, regardless of guilt, the sentence was too harsh. The authorities were unmoved. Their appeals exhausted, the Rosenbergs were electrocuted in June 1953.

    Belief in the Rosenbergs' innocence faded in the 1990s. First an expanded edition of Nikita Khrushchev's memoirs was published in which the former Soviet premier claimed he'd heard a high official tell Stalin that the Rosenbergs had greatly aided Russia's A-bomb push. Then in 1995 the National Security Agency began to declassify files from the Venona Project, a till-then little-known effort to decode Soviet diplomatic cables. The correspondence contained numerous references to nuclear spying by a party at one point code-named--you can hear the teeth gnashing--"Liberal." An abundance of biographical details led inescapably to the conclusion that Liberal was Julius Rosenberg. He was no bit player, either, but an energetic recruiter for the Soviet cause.

    Still, that doesn't mean he and his wife deserved the death penalty. True, the Espionage Act of 1917, under which the Rosenbergs were convicted, permitted execution for spying "in time of war." But you'd think it might count for something that during World War II, when the couple passed along their ill-gotten secrets, the Soviet Union was an ally.



    Parent
    "Southern trees bear strange fruit. (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:44:47 PM EST
    Blood on the leaves and blood at the root.."

    Interesting bit of trivia: Abel Meeropol, author of the above-referenced song - that I can hear Billie Holliday singing in my head as I type this - was the adopter of the Rosenberg children.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#49)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:41:50 PM EST
    the person who provided most of the testimony against them was as guilty as they were and obviously trying to pull his own chestnuts out of the fire, but it sounds like they were pretty guilty. Though, not so as to warrant execution, particularly in the cruel-and-unusual electric chair and with a family including two or three young children..

    Parent
    yep (none / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:47:09 PM EST
    I found that.  but #4?

    curious

    Parent

    non-christian (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:52:46 PM EST
    "ethnicity" and cuz they was communists..

    And Harry Gold, who was as guilty as they were, doesn't make the list at all..

    As Hume said, the few control the many through opinion..

    Parent

    have you seen (none / 0) (#61)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:57:15 PM EST
    Angels in America?  one of Meryl Streeps best roles ever is Ethel Rosenberg.

    it would take to long to explain.  you should just netflix it if you have not seen it.


    Parent

    We talked about this before.. (none / 0) (#65)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:09:55 PM EST
    she was fantastic, as was just about everyone else in the cast.

    Jeffery Wright, I couldn't believe..

    Pacino's actor-mouth must've been watering when he read that Roy Cohn part..

    Parent

    its coming back to me (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:13:53 PM EST
    couldnt pass up a chance to promote that performance.

    while I am pushing Meryl,  if you have not seen Doubt, see it.  its great.  in fact, see it more than once because its really fun to watch Streeps performance once you know how the whole thing turns out.
    it pure awsum.  she starts out as a person you love to hate.  almost cartoonish but completely believable and ends the movie with your admiration.


    Parent

    saw it (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:31:27 PM EST
    she was great. Again.

    Did you you see the Manchurian Candidate? Talk about channeling every cold-blooded, overly-ambitious right wing harridan into one character..

    She's almost went over the top with that one..

    Parent

    the other amazing thing (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:37:06 PM EST
    about Doubt is Viola Davis.

    stealing a scene from Meryl Streep is not a small feat.  but she totally does that in that amazing "walking to work" scene in Doubt.


    Parent

    the scene (none / 0) (#86)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:50:40 PM EST
    this spoils nothing.  you could know everything about this movie and still not know what happens.

    "its just till June"

    Parent

    yeah (none / 0) (#78)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:33:22 PM EST
    I hated that movie because I loved the original so much but yes, she was great.  as usual.

    the titillating "sex" scene still makes me queasy.
     

    Parent

    lol (none / 0) (#81)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:39:56 PM EST
    know what you mean. You should've hear my daughter's eeee-ooow! every other nineteen year old girl within a three mile radius picked up on it and went eeee-ooow! in response.

    Parent
    I loved that one too (none / 0) (#105)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:36:28 PM EST
    right up until the very very end. Won't sdo a spoiler, but for some reason that very last minute of the movie did not ring true to me.

    Already weighed in on loving 'Angels in America'. Will add to it in honor of 'Weeds' returning tonight - loved Justin Kirk in AIA also. In fact knowing he was in 'Weeds' was what made me start watching it.

    Parent

    I have to say I agree (none / 0) (#122)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:09:54 PM EST
    but I loved everything else in the movie so much I just write if off to being one of those things I dont understand.

    Parent
    Left-Wing Bloggers Select The 20 Worst Figures In American History

    1. The Rosenbergs (3) + Julius Rosenberg (3) (6 total votes)
    2. Pat Robertson (6)
    3. Oliver North (6)
    4. William Randolph Hearst (6)
    5. Aaron Burr (6)
    6. Aldrich Ames (6)
    7. George Lincoln Rockwell (7)
    8. Robert McNamara (7)
    9. Richard Mellon Scaife (8)
    10. Lee Harvey Oswald (8)
    11. Charles Coughlin (8)
    12. Strom Thurmond (8)
    13. Ronald Reagan (9)
    14. George Wallace (10)
    15. Andrew Jackson (12)
    16. Jefferson Davis (13)
    17. George W. Bush (13)
    18. Benedict Arnold (14)
    19. Henry Kissinger (14)
    20. John Wilkes Booth (14)
    21. Timothy McVeigh (16)
    22. Nathan Bedford Forrest (16)
    23. J. Edgar Hoover (16)
    24. Richard Nixon (25)
    25. Joseph McCarthy (26)
    Left wing bloggers put JWB at number 6.

    6 vs 10.

    A mandate.

    Parent

    interesting to me (none / 0) (#36)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:15:40 PM EST
    the number of people on that list I have to google.  I recognize the names of most of them but I don't actually know who they are.  Most of the bottom section of the list.

    Who are these people and what have they done??

    Parent

    Dunno, I'm in the same boat. (none / 0) (#48)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:40:38 PM EST
    Scratching my head as well on The Rosenbergs, Aldrich Ames, George Lincoln Rockwell, Richard Mellon Scaife, Charles Coughlin and Nathan Bedford Forrest. That said, I'm really not a political wonk...

    Parent
    I looked up (none / 0) (#52)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:45:28 PM EST
    Forrest cuz he was near the top.

    Mastermind behind the KKK, civil war vet (for the south).

    Fair enough...

    Parent

    Top of my (none / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:47:45 PM EST
    list of people to have on your side in a bar fight, though..

    "No man kills me and lives"

    Parent

    Gump (none / 0) (#119)
    by efm on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:06:57 PM EST
    "When I was a baby, Mama named me after the great Civil War hero, General Nathan Bedford Forrest. She said we was related to him in some way. What he did was he started up this club called the Ku Klux Klan. They'd all dress up in their robes and their bed sheets and act like a bunch of ghosts or spooks or something. They'd even put bed sheets on their horses and ride around. And anyway, that's how
    I got my name, Forrest Gump."


    Parent
    Wow (none / 0) (#68)
    by gyrfalcon on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:14:52 PM EST
    I guess it's generational.  I know every one of them.  Haven't been teaching recent U.S. history in the schools for a while, apparently.

    Parent
    I think there is definitely a gap (none / 0) (#72)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:21:16 PM EST
    in U.S. history courses on the "recent history" front.  It takes a while for stuff to make it to the books.  I know almost nothing about the 80's for example, because I was too young to remember and too old for it to have made it to the books/classrooms.  Even the stuff from the 60s and 70s is kind of breezed over in class, since I think they expect you to learn it from other forms of media and your parents.  Or maybe it's still too controversial and personal to teach in schools.  I don't know.

    Parent
    I don't know what they're (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:20:19 PM EST
    teaching the kids now about the 60's and 70's, but since I lived through it (high school in the late 60's. college and beyond in the 70's), all I can say is.......you almost had to have been there to understand it.  And I'm not sure I even fully understand it even now, but one thing I do know:  we've learned precious little, if anything, from history.  George Santaya was right.

    Parent
    there is a lot of truth (none / 0) (#115)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:03:36 PM EST
    the the thing about "if you remember the 60s and 70s you were not there".
    honestly that film, The Box, got me to thinking about this.
    from my point of view the 70s was all about hippies and drugs and coming of age as a rebel.  so that is what the 70s were about for me.  but watching that film made me realize that for many people it was not about that.  and the vision it presents is just a valid as the one I remember.  young professionals, trying to raise a family and get by.
    the passing references to Layla and being played at a wedding didnt do it for me at first but Im sure that is how many people remember it.


    Parent
    For me, (none / 0) (#126)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:20:09 PM EST
    the late 60's and the 70's were about the Viet Nam War and the protests, Nixon's impeachment, and a whole lot of other politics.  Plus, on a personal level, getting married and starting a family.

    Parent
    same here (none / 0) (#129)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:26:34 PM EST
    that was a different description of "hippies drugs and coming of age as a rebel" I think.


    Parent
    i think that's usually the case (none / 0) (#128)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:25:20 PM EST
    history never gets it 100% right, but if you lived through it you have a specific "personal bubble" lense that you view the era through.

    I learned at dinner the other day that this guy was a friend of my grandparents.   No doubt that shaped their (and eventually my) point of view on the earlier era as well.

    Parent

    if you want to know about the 80s (none / 0) (#77)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:31:29 PM EST
    watch the Richard Kelly movie "Donnie Darko"

    if you want to know about the 70s (sans all the political stuff) watch the Richard Kelly movie "The Box"

    only half kidding.  they are both wonderful time capsules of the decades

    Parent

    Donnie Darko (none / 0) (#82)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:39:59 PM EST
    is one of my favorite movies ever.  The first time I ever saw it I was particularly visually inclined - it left quite the impression.

    Parent
    same here (none / 0) (#84)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:46:35 PM EST
    I read about that movie before it came out and that summer I was unemployed along with all my film effects friends (I believe it was during a strike if memory serves) so I dragged several of them to the premier and then we went back two more times to see it in a theater.

    I had high hopes for The Box which I did not love as much but after repeated partial viewings on cable its growing on me.  it bugged me that more 70s references were not thrown in, as with the 80s and Donnie Darko, but I begin to understand why he did that.  


    Parent

    I was the opposite (none / 0) (#108)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:41:15 PM EST
    "why would I want to see a movie about a crazy stuffed bunny??"  I had never even heard about it while it was still in the theater.

    Luckily my friends in college were persuasive.  Saw it on dvd - own it now.

    Cameo I didn't notice until I saw it again years later - Seth Rogen as one of the "bad" students.

    Parent

    "Condemned to repeat it.." (none / 0) (#74)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:25:36 PM EST
    Forest was a piece-of-work if there ever was one..

    Like some half-crazed, obsessed, Old Testament warrior "prophet" ( just not the good kind)..considered a military genius by many, but definitely not fit for any civilized society we'd acknowledge or recognize.

    Probably not that uncommon a "type" for the mid-nineteenth century though..

    Parent

    after a brief google search (none / 0) (#80)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:37:40 PM EST
    of some names, I have to say I think it is a bit slanted toward a recent times.  At first glance I'm not sure right-wing mouthpieces ala Scaife Mellon belong on the same list as say - a Forrest or Andrew Jackson.  Then again, he could be worse than a brief wiki-glance suggests.

    Actually considering that trend - I'm surprised Cheney or Rummy isn't on this list.

    Parent

    Scaife isn't a "mouth piece" (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:00:57 PM EST
    he's the one who funds the construction and design of the mouth pieces. Think "The Arkansas Project" etc

    (use your imagination)..and the horse he rode in on.

    Parent

    I just came across a letter from Forrest (none / 0) (#83)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:41:31 PM EST
    in archives, a letter during the Civil War about a battle.  Excuses, excuses; no sense of responsibility.

    It is evident that losing the war did not make him an amoral nutcase -- he was one before the war, I bet.

    Parent

    he was a millionaire (none / 0) (#85)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:50:21 PM EST
    before the war started from slave trading. As a boy he saw his father gunned down in a street brawl over some business deal gone awry..

    Started his own cavalry unit when the war started by putting up flyers saying (paraphrase) "Hey boys, wanna go kill some yankees?"

    Supposedly killed thirty men in hand-to-hand combat. Im sure he was practically beatified back in Tennessee after the war..

    Parent

    Bogus List (none / 0) (#87)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:00:26 PM EST
    Bilmon doesn't exist anymore, tBogg hasn't posted for over a year... etc.

    Parent
    be taken too seriously...

    Parent
    Except (none / 0) (#110)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:45:26 PM EST
    That the first list was generated from a right wing blog asking right wing people who the 25 worst people in american history were.

    The list you provided was also generated by a right wing blog, presumably in response to the first list, and presumably asked left wing blogs the same question. It is a parody of the first list, at best, and at worst silly propaganda.

    It seems odd to me that you would say

    Ya, that's the reason these lists should not be taken too seriously... [emphasis mine]
    considering that one list is a survey and the other list is a fiction.

    Parent
    Thanks for the grin. (none / 0) (#114)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:02:53 PM EST
    TBogg... (none / 0) (#111)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:52:25 PM EST
    ..posts nearly every day.  Maybe you're using the old address?

    Parent
    Got it From the Wingnut Site List (none / 0) (#113)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:59:45 PM EST
    They must have the old address.... lol

    The list is bogus.

    Parent

    Wingnuts are bogus... (none / 0) (#142)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:53:57 PM EST
    ...and rarely ever right about anything.  

    Heck, I'm still laughing at a certain someone who thinks that polar ice melt has no effect on the level of the oceans...

    Parent

    tBogg.....really? (none / 0) (#154)
    by trillian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:06:46 PM EST
    Then who the heck is this

    Parent
    Links From Wingnut List Site (none / 0) (#155)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 05:25:40 PM EST
    I wanna see their greatest (none / 0) (#29)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:06:14 PM EST
    Americans list: just to see Ronald Regan beat out any number of humanitarians, philanthropists and war heroes and to see how many talk radio commentators, whose careers kicked off twenty years ago, made the list ahead of Benjamin Franklin and Albert Einstein..  

    Parent
    Ask an dye shall receive (none / 0) (#32)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:12:32 PM EST
    although it looks like they go the 20 Greatest list from both left and right wing bloggers' responses:

    1. Harry Truman (9)
    2. Dwight D. Eisenhower (9)
    3. Frederick Douglass (9)
    4. Thomas Paine (10)
    5. Ulysses S. Grant (10)
    6. Orville & Wilbur Wright (11)
    7. Mark Twain (11)
    8. George S. Patton (11)
    9. Alexander Hamilton (13)
    10. Henry Ford (14)
    11. Franklin Delano Roosevelt (15)
    12. Martin Luther King Jr (15)
    13. Teddy Roosevelt (17)
    14. John Adams (17)
    15. James Madison (18)
    16. Thomas Edison (21)
    17. Ben Franklin (28)
    18. Abe Lincoln (31)
    19. George Washington (35)
    20. Ronald Reagan (36)
    21. Thomas Jefferson (36)


    Parent
    Although, looking at #1, (none / 0) (#34)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:13:35 PM EST
    mayhaps they got more responses from RW blogs. ;-)

    Parent
    Reagan = Jefferson (none / 0) (#38)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:18:54 PM EST
    Please, someone from the right side of the spectrum put forth a defense of that thesis.

     

    Parent

    Reagan didn't own slaves. (none / 0) (#43)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:28:52 PM EST
    NOT a serious response...

    Parent
    Not in THIS (none / 0) (#44)
    by jondee on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:33:21 PM EST
    country any way..:)

    Better actor than Jefferson, also.

    Parent

    Don't know about that... (none / 0) (#56)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:48:29 PM EST
    I've had the misfortune of seeing Ray-gun act as well as lead...neither were pretty.

    Parent
    Not a one musician? (none / 0) (#63)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:07:12 PM EST
    Considering we're the birthplace of blues, jazz, rock-n-roll, and rap that is a glaring ommission.

    And where's Emma Goldman, Abbie Hoffman, Huey Newton, & Karl Hess?

    Parent

    Best of Times, Worst of Times... (none / 0) (#23)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 11:56:30 AM EST
    the Ph.D. explained (none / 0) (#41)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 12:25:22 PM EST
    What my husband says (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Zorba on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:23:07 PM EST
    about doctorates is:  "as you go along in your academic career......you know more and more about less and less...until you know everything about nothing.."

    Parent
    Nope. (none / 0) (#157)
    by Cream City on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 08:41:25 PM EST
    You just become a student forever.

    So you do learn more and more and more.

    But you become a very good student, so what you really learn is how much more you want to know.

    Parent

    kdog, just got a certified letter (none / 0) (#66)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:10:51 PM EST
    from a medical MJ collective that wants to move to a location that's w/in 1000' of my business. It's actually the building next to mine. I'm interested in going in and checking the place out.

    What's up with that? (none / 0) (#69)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:17:28 PM EST
    Do they have to notify you by law or something?

    If you check it out, try the tootsie rolls...they're scrumptious!

    Parent

    Yep, required by law. (none / 0) (#70)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:19:08 PM EST
    The million dollar question... (none / 0) (#71)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:20:47 PM EST
    do you object?  

    Parent
    Nah, no objections from me. (none / 0) (#73)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:23:45 PM EST
    You've made me see the light!

    Parent
    My man... (none / 0) (#75)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 01:29:43 PM EST
    my upmost respect for ya has been maintained...let freedom ring!

    Parent
    Hmmmm. This sheds some light on (none / 0) (#96)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:19:24 PM EST
    my niece's recent admission she is addicted to tootsie rolls!

    Parent
    I'm sure she means... (none / 0) (#101)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:26:48 PM EST
    the real, poisonous ones...which are good.  And not the wholesome, healthy medicinal ones...which are really, really good:)

    Parent
    quote of the day (none / 0) (#102)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:26:59 PM EST
    from Newt:

    Gingrich then went on to claim that "we would never accept the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor."

    "There is no reason for us to accept a mosque next to the World Trade Center," he said.

    weeellll

    An American flag waves briskly in the breeze beside a Shinto shrine on the major freeway leading from Honolulu to Pearl Harbor. Just five miles away is the spot where Japanese planes dropped their bombs on the American fleet.

    and incredibly this is still a talking point.
    dont they have anyone who can use google or do facts really not matter at all any more?

    Would five miles from WTC put the (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by oculus on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:36:45 PM EST
    proposed project in, say, Jersey City?

    Parent
    per Greenwald (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by ruffian on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:39:54 PM EST
    'the emergence of the mosques story is a testament to the lowest elements of the right-wing puke funnel'

    I could not agree more.

    Parent

    Harry Reid... (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:57:46 PM EST
    chiming in, trying to pander to haters for votes.  

    Really shameful Harry, even for you.

    Parent

    you will see more of this (none / 0) (#117)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:05:48 PM EST
    many tight races this year.  and they will use this.
    people are idiots with the attention span of fleas.

    if he has to pander to keep Sharon Angle out of the senate, I say, do it.


    Parent

    I disagree... (none / 0) (#123)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:11:31 PM EST
    I'd rather stay home than vote for such a spineless p.o.s.

    Say what you will about Angle but I think she is honest in her beliefs and stances...Harry follows political winds, I have no clue what he stands for besides himself.

    Parent

    you are wrong (none / 0) (#130)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:27:57 PM EST
    she is lying and sleazing and running away from her past statements as fast as she can.


    Parent
    Fair enough... (none / 0) (#131)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:30:11 PM EST
    I just know her as the crazy lady and assumed she was always crazy:)

    I'd still stay home if there was no third name.

    Parent

    You Are Being Played, IMO (none / 0) (#133)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:32:42 PM EST
    Angle is as sleazy a pol as the rest. She figured out talking points that are music to your ears, that is all.

    Parent
    well there ya go! (none / 0) (#104)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 02:35:42 PM EST
    he seems to have defined an acceptable distance. 5 miles or 20 NYC blocks . . . :-P

    Parent
    I don't think the Non-Nyers (none / 0) (#116)
    by kdog on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:04:48 PM EST
    in this debate realize how close everything is to everything is here!

    As today's Daily News illustrates...everything is around the WTC site...pizza places, dry cleaners, liquor stores, bars, brazilian waxing, strip clubs, peep shows, and other houses of worship...all within quick walking distance.  And that's just the legal stuff!

    Parent

    frankly that's (none / 0) (#118)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:06:23 PM EST
    one of the best things about NYC.  Forces people from all walks of life to rub shoulders.

    Parent
    Math? (none / 0) (#121)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:08:02 PM EST
    not sure what you meant but 5 miles is 100 city blocks...

    Parent
    hmmm . . . . (none / 0) (#134)
    by nycstray on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:42:37 PM EST
    I thought it was 4 long blocks per mile?

    Parent
    maybe one of you is talking (5.00 / 1) (#139)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:49:05 PM EST
    about north south and one is talking about east west

    Parent
    Noooooo (none / 0) (#140)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:49:58 PM EST
    I don't know... (none / 0) (#144)
    by CST on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:54:59 PM EST
    this is what wiki answers says:

    "In NYC (Manhattan) the number of north-south blocks per mile is 20. East-west blocks (between avenues) are typically just under 5 north-south blocks in length, so the number of east-west blocks per mile is 4."

    Also google earth agrees with wiki more or less.

    Parent

    20 Blocks to the Mile (none / 0) (#137)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:46:40 PM EST
    No - it's 22 blocks to the mile. (none / 0) (#143)
    by scribe on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 03:54:41 PM EST
    Well (none / 0) (#147)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:03:06 PM EST
    If you are going to be exact, there is no measurement that is correct. Most NYer go by 20 blocks to the mile. It is a rough calculation, as blocks are not all equal in length.

    Never, ever heard anyone say 22...  but you are entitled to your opinion.

    Maybe you mean 22 minutes for the average walker.

    Parent

    I just started (none / 0) (#148)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:07:03 PM EST
    Under The Dome

    it might not develop my intellect but it will damn sure develop my arms and sholders.

    Wow (none / 0) (#149)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:08:52 PM EST
    They still make books?  

    Parent
    I still enjoy (none / 0) (#150)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:12:45 PM EST
    little more than a 40lb King hardcover.

    Parent
    lol (none / 0) (#152)
    by squeaky on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:15:15 PM EST
    Obviously not lightweight reading...  

    Parent
    honestly (none / 0) (#151)
    by Capt Howdy on Mon Aug 16, 2010 at 04:13:23 PM EST
    I dont think it would be a scary on a kindle

    Parent