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Friday Night Open Thread: Yom Kippur

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 07:48:30 PM EST
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Yom Kippur begins at sundown. It is the holiest day of the Jewish year, a time of atonement and forgiveness. It's a time to make peace with other people and with G-d. Observant Jews fast for 24 hours. It's a time to wipe the moral slate clean for a new year. No work is allowed.

If you're feeling bad you aren't at a temple, here's a live online service, beginning at 6:15 pm PT. If you're at Occupy Wall St, there's a service there.

For everyone else, here's an open thread, all topics welcome. [More...]

A little bit more:
The purpose of Yom Kippur is to bring about reconciliation between people and between individuals and G-d. According to Jewish tradition, it is also the day when G-d decides the fate of each human being.

Although Yom Kippur is an intense holiday it is nevertheless viewed as a happy day. Why? Because if one has observed the holiday properly by the end of Yom Kippur they will have made peace with others and with G-d.

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    Friday Night Open Thread: Yom Kippur | 87 comments (87 topical)

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    New diary about Chile (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 07:54:32 PM EST
    and the workings of protest there. Not my best work, but what are we doing? We need national organization... we need to challenge this corrupt system.

    Oops, new diary (none / 0) (#2)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 07:56:12 PM EST
    here

    Parent
    It Has Begun (none / 0) (#30)
    by SOS on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:52:02 AM EST
    A record 430,000 people have taken part in demonstrations across Israel to demand social justice and a lower cost of living. (Sunday 4 September 2011)



    Parent

    In a triumph of irrationality, (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 07:56:23 PM EST
    Pinellas County, Florida teapartiers have succeeded in eliminating fluoride from their drinking water.

    "Everybody knows how real teeth interfere with the fit of a really fine pair of dentures."

    http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/751240

    We must maintain (none / 0) (#4)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 08:01:32 PM EST
    "purity of essence," Gen. Jack Ripper, Dr. Strangeglove and Dr Strangelove.

    Parent
    Alabama law makers hate children (none / 0) (#5)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 08:10:15 PM EST
    and farmers.

    People warned Alabamans that if they went ahead and passed their own version of anti-immigrant legislation, they would suffer similar economic consequences. But they did it anyway. Now, the state's anti-immigration laws -- which involve using schoolchildren as proxies for enforcement -- are easily the most draconian and vicious anti-immigrant laws in the country.

    And guess what? They are now paying the price. Not only are the schools suddenly emptying of Latino children, more tellingly, the state's tomato farmers are in crisis because there's no one available to harvest the fruit. And the authors of the legislation are just telling them, "tough luck". digby

    Also, check out the notice that warns that people may lose water service if they do not have a copy of an Alabama DL or picture ID on file.

    Parent

    This republican conservative (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jeffinalabama on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 08:39:21 PM EST
    wet dream legislature will be a one-termer. This bunch has catered to the Alabama Bourbouns, at the expense of EVERYTHING else.

    Trust me when I say Alabama's legislature is the lowest common denominator. Already at leat one republican switched to the democrats because of the top down leadership.

    Place this all at the hands of ex-governor Bob Riley, a snake in the grass. His candidate, Byrne, didn't get nominated for governor. But he owns the idiots in charge of the legislature, caters to jingoistic nationalism (Read white and black people, not brown hispanics), and expects to be re-elected in 3 years. His folks have hurt EVERYONE except the richest 2o families... not 20 percent, 20 families, or so... and I hope that these ignorant statesmen and women of mine will remember the nonsense legislation. IF I'm here, I'll be reminding them. I don't want to be here, though.

    Parent

    Tomato crop?? (none / 0) (#9)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 08:45:03 PM EST
    Someone tell the farmers to pay enough and I'm sure they will find workers.

    Oh. They don't want to pay enough??

    Well, looks like they'll just have to go out of business.

    Life gets tedious, doesn't it.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:02:16 AM EST
    if it's like in GA these tomato farmers who probably voted for all the republicans will get the state to pay the workers.

    Parent
    Let me see... (none / 0) (#36)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:42:34 AM EST
    You claim to be a Democrat.

    Yet you are against protecting American jobs and better pay for American workers.

    So supporting "open borders" and illegal immigrants trumps supporting American workers.

    No surprise there.

    Parent

    GA supplying free American labor (none / 0) (#45)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:02:19 AM EST
    to companies does not equal "protecting American jobs and better pay for American workers."

    No pay does not equal better pay. Free labor to companies means that they don't have to hire anyone to get the work done -no new hires - no salaries - no benefits - just free.

    Parent

    Let's (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:51:41 AM EST
    see. I guess you didn't read my post. You are just hurling nonsense around.

    I said the tomato farmers are the ones that voted for these nuts. So IF they have the same pull with these nuts as they do in GA, then the farmers will get the state to pick up the tab.

    I said nothing about American workers in that post.

    But the fact of the matter is, this type of legislation does absolutely nothing to help with jobs. Since the legislation has passed, Georgia's unemployment rate has increased. Even you are saying that the tomato farmers don't want to pay anybody.

    This type of conservative legislation has been proven to be an abject failure. But i guess you continue to be invested in failed policies.

    The south has been participating in a race to the bottom for years operating like a third world country with corporate welfare out the ying-yang and now we don't have jobs because there's plenty of places for cheap labor now. Look you've been supporting this model for years with your voting habits so don't blame me for the problem. Take some responsibility.

    Hispanics have been picking crops in this country for literally decades but all of a sudden you seem to think it's going to create a massive amount of jobs? You're just plain silly.

    Parent

    This isn't about the Repubs giving free labor (none / 0) (#55)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:24:31 PM EST
    This is about business people not paying enough money to attract labor.

    And you, instead of condemning the mistreatment of American labor, attack the Repubs.

    Why not go to the source of the problem... if you really want to help American labor?

    My read is that you don't. You don't care about American labor. You just want to attack Repubs.

    And if the illegal immigrants have been breaking our laws for decades... so what?

    Maybe that's part of the problem, eh??

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 04:07:35 PM EST
    how are they going to attract labor when the Repubs are giving it to them free?

    The problem here in GA is largely where these farms are located are in low population places so people would have to travel to those jobs. they would have to pay room and board though I do understand that a lot of farmers have tenant shacks that they let people live in. So yeah, those are the conditions that the Republican farmers are offering people who work for them. The Republicans don't want illegals and they want cheap labor so what they want is impossible. That's why the legislation has been a failure.

    Parent

    You seem to think I approve of the free labor (none / 0) (#69)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:37:41 PM EST
    I don't.

    I'd just like to see you say that solution isn't free labor and it isn't cheap illegal immigrant labor. The solution is to pay enough to attract legal American labor.

    You see, I remember the late 40's and early 50's when the blacks and poor whites left the south in droves. The result was a society that became more open to industry and spurred mechanization. And it made the remain whites and blacks more valuable to the land owners.

    If cheap illegal immigrants had been available, that would never have happened.

    We are supposed to be a people that want fairness and equality and while we love to talk it, when the choice is cheap labor giving us cheap veggies and fruit or paying more... the choice is always cheap.

    Same for yard service... Check out who is being employed in Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Ft Worth...Phoenix, LA, etc..

    Parent

    I never said (none / 0) (#72)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 06:46:02 PM EST
    YOU approve of free labor just that it's what the GOP wants.

    You are living in a fantasy world if you think the remaining people were "more valuable". They weren't. They just didn't have the means or something to get out.

    I know who is being employed in Atlanta and it's the Republicans that hire them. Like I said, they somehow think that the laws don't apply to them. So maybe the reality is that instead of stupid laws maybe make some smart laws that make them legal so the people who use them will have to actually pay them minimum wage.

    The fact of the matter is that Republican policies have driven down wages not immigrants. The GOP wants a race to the bottom because they think everybody but themselves are overpaid.

    Parent

    Get the mote out of your own eye (none / 0) (#76)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:31:06 PM EST
    and quit trying to blame Repubs for everything.

    Fantasy? I lived those days so tell me what you learned in some college course. People left with nothing but enough money to get them there with a promise of a job and a relative to live with. And it wasn't a race thing. It happened to both.

    And you "know??" Oh please. You know the political affiliation of all the farmers?

    So quit worrying about the "baddies" and the "goodies" and join this old Social Liberal and recognize illegal immigrants allow you to have cheap food at the expense of both the illegal immigrants who shouldn't be there to be taken advantage of and the American worker who should be paid a decent wage.

    Walk the walk or else accept the name, "Limousine Liberal."

    Parent

    Look (none / 0) (#77)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:45:06 PM EST
    the GOP are the ones that have enacted the legislation have they not? When the Dems enact stupid legislation I call them on that too.

    I can tell you here in GA that the farmers were huge donors to Nathan Deal's campaign.

    So sharecropping was a great thing? I never said it was a race thing. I said the people that stayed still made crap wages. How many African Americans were maids who didn't even get paid minimum wage back then? It seems to me that if the people were "more valuable" then they would have at least been paid minimum wage.

    Actually I think EVERYBODY should be paid a decent wage. My point is that this legislation has done NOTHING to solve the problem that you are alluding to. The actual unemployment rate has GONE UP here in GA since the legislation was enacted. If what you said was true, then unemployment would have GONE DOWN. The facts are that the legislation is a dud. Sorry that the facts don't back up what you are advocating.

    Parent

    Uh, instead of worrying about (none / 0) (#80)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:12:46 PM EST
    the legislation, why don't you worry about the American worker who has been slowly forced to take low wages by illegal immigrants??

    Try to connect the dots.

    IF illegal immigrants had never been allowed farm wages would have been raised at the same rate as other wages to attract workers. BUT illegal immigrants were not kept out and guess what.

    EMPLOYERS took advantage. Wow. How surprising.

    Jail the employers? Yes. But also stop the supply by closing the borders.

    In the meantime the illegal aliens's partners in crime, people who winked at the problem because they wanted cheap fruits and veggies, house cleaners and yard service, need to get use to higher prices in order to support the American worker.

    BTW - One more time. Forget the legislation. Focus on the American worker. Demand illegals been removed. Demand higher wages for American workers.

    You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.

    Parent

    You (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 07:33:40 AM EST
    are ignoring the larger point and that the country and the south in particular operates on a cheap labor model. I have been advocating to get away from this model for quite a while. So unless the entire mindset changes, it won't matter if every illegal in this country is removed because as you see in AL the farmers are willing to let their crops rot and the farmers here in GA got Nathan Deal to pay for the workers.

    I think you have a fantasy mindset. Even now even though large corporations are sitting on a ton of cash, they're still trying to pay as little as possible for workers.

    Parent

    heh (none / 0) (#85)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 08:13:31 AM EST
    The south operates on cheap illegal labor??

    Is that Southern California, Southern Nevada and Southern Arizona you speak of?

    Your pleas do not ring true.

    You will always find a reason to support Open Borders no matter how much the American worker is hurt.

    Parent

    I said (5.00 / 0) (#88)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 03:03:27 PM EST
    the "cheap labor model" I did not say the word "illegal." I said the entire country operates on the "cheap labor model" but none more so than the south. For a long time the south would say come here because you have to pay your workers less and business did but now they have places that are even cheaper so they are leaving the south.  

    Good grief someone who votes for the GOP has ZERO credibility when it comes to the "american worker". These are the same people who to eliminate the minimum wage. For some reason anybody who calls the GOP on their idiocy gets some knee jerk screeching response about "open borders". Whatever dude.

    Parent

    GA6th (none / 0) (#86)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 08:30:14 AM EST
    Is this the law you are crying over?

    Link

    If so, why are you opposed to tax payer funded training to allow people to get a job??

    Parent

    that (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 03:06:37 PM EST
    law has been a miserable failure too but it's not the one that I'm talking about w/r/t to not having people to work the fields.

    From what I understand of that law, the businesses are basically stealing tax payer money.

    Parent

    You need to read Isabel Wilkerson's book (none / 0) (#73)
    by shoephone on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 06:53:36 PM EST
    "The Warmth of Other Suns." The great migration of blacks out of the south didn't just occur in two decades, it happened over a period of about 60 years. And it was about so much more than wages.

    And who isn't awake enough to know that the GOP and its followers would like nothing more than to abolish minimum wage forever?

    Parent

    Of course it was (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:11:48 PM EST
    but "wages" means money to spend. There was precious little in the south.

    Parent
    You remember the late '40s??? (none / 0) (#79)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 08:39:59 PM EST


    Parent
    Yes, I do. (none / 0) (#81)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:15:01 PM EST
    Being 73 let's you do that.

    Parent
    Charles Pierce delicate touch with words (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 08:26:43 AM EST
    Is there a more unmitigated horse's a$$ in American public life than George Effing Will?

    Is there a more breathtaking coupling of tinhorn erudition and pig-ignorant arrogance? Is there anyone who is a more perfect combination of tea-cosy courage, sherry-sipping macho, and lace-hanky contempt for everyone who isn't himself? Is there another human being on this planet who more richly deserves to be hung from a coat rack by his undershorts? Is there a dumber looking bow-tie? Breathes there a man with a soul so dead? These are our questions. link
    Truer words were never spoken. (5.00 / 0) (#53)
    by caseyOR on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:17:13 PM EST
    Pierce does such an excellent job of nailing the truth of George Will that there really is nothing for me to add.

    Parent
    Charlie Pierce (5.00 / 0) (#82)
    by NYShooter on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 11:44:15 PM EST
    could write a book about boiling water and once you started reading it you wouldn't be able to put it down until you finished.

    I think anyone contemplating becoming an author should be compelled to read anything Charlie wrote. And, I mean anything.

    One thing for certain.......we'd have a lot less writers.

    Parent

    This from his (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by MO Blue on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 07:59:01 AM EST
    About The Politics Blog

    It will be the policy of this blog not to treat ignorance with respect simply because that ignorance profits important and powerful people. It will be the policy to operate on the principle that, while there may be two sides to every question, rarely are they both right. If this blog sees a man walking down the street with a duck on his head, it will report that it saw a man walking down the street with a duck on his head. It will not need two sources for that. It will not seek out someone to tell it that what it really saw was a duck walking down the street with a guy on its ass. It will be the belief of this blog that, as Christopher Hitchens once said, the only correct answer to the question, "Is nothing sacred?" is "No." And there will be fun.

    Our country would be much better off if all journalist adopted that policy.

    Parent

    Even at my advanced age (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by NYShooter on Sun Oct 09, 2011 at 02:52:41 PM EST
    I would give ten years of my life to be able write like this"

    Opening paragraph Re: George Wills:

    "Is there a more breathtaking coupling of tinhorn erudition and pig-ignorant arrogance? Is there anyone who is a more perfect combination of tea-cosy courage, sherry-sipping macho, and lace-hanky contempt for everyone who isn't himself? Is there another human being on this planet who more richly deserves to be hung from a coat rack by his undershorts? Is there a dumber looking bow-tie? Breathes there a man with a soul so dead? These are our questions."

    Parent

    Once more re: my Occupy SF experience (none / 0) (#6)
    by Dadler on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 08:22:30 PM EST
    Linky

    Anyone in the Bay Area, keep a heads up and join any marches coming up.

    Will messing with the "Rally Squirrel" (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 08:37:41 PM EST
    be bad karma {tongue in check question}?

    Rally squirrel or not, Busch critter has to go

    ST. LOUIS (AP) -- The Busch Stadium "Rally Squirrel" may need to find a new home.

    Ballpark officials are trying to a catch a squirrel that ran onto the field during both games of the NL playoffs in St. Louis this week, including a scamper across home plate as the Cardinals' Skip Schumaker was hitting against Philadelphia

    For a sellout crowd, it was a nutty diversion. The squirrel quickly became a fan favorite, and a Twitter account attributed to the critter has been active since Tuesday night.
    ...
    The squirrel that dashed across the plate jumped to the box seats and safety in the fifth inning of Game 4 Wednesday night. Earlier in that game, a squirrel was sighted on a walkway just past the green expanse beyond the center field wall, and another was seen along foul territory down the third-base line.

    Phillies pitcher Roy Oswalt said he was distracted by the squirrel's appearance during his delivery of an inside pitch called a ball. Oswalt and manager Charlie Manuel were unsuccessful in pleas to home plate umpire Angel Hernandez for a do-over.

    "If it ran up the guy's leg, was he going to call the pitch a strike?" Oswalt said, only half-jokingly. "I was wondering what size of animal it needed to be for it not to be a pitch."



    Whiners. That squireel wasn't close to (none / 0) (#13)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 10:37:41 PM EST
    home plate when Oswalt threw the pitch.

    Parent
    They need to leave the (none / 0) (#15)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 10:48:50 PM EST
    "Rally Squirrel(s)" alone until after the season is over. Also since it was a St. Louis squirrel, the Cards should have gotten another run when he crossed the plate. {giggle}

    BTW, the Cards who many predicted would be easily defeated by the Phillies 1-2-3.....

    Cardinals knock the Phillies out of the playoffs
    Chris Carpenter pitches a three-hitter to lead St. Louis to a 1-0 victory over at Philadelphia.


    Parent
    Good job. Going to be an interesting (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:10:45 PM EST
    next round.

    Parent
    The Cards series with the Phillies (none / 0) (#17)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:11:12 PM EST
    reminds me of 2006 when the Detroit Tigers were predicted to annihilate the Cards.

    One reporter said "It's not a question if the Cardinals can win the World Series, it's a question of whether or not the Cardinals can even win a game."

    The late Steve Gilliard spent a lot of bandwidth going on in the same vein as the reporter above prior to the start of the series. I have to admit I enjoyed reminding him of his many statements after the Cards won the World Series.

    It also reminds me of how much I miss being able to read Steve's blog. There have been many times when I have thought "I wonder what Steve would have said about this."

    Parent

    Will this year's Series (none / 0) (#19)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:16:13 PM EST
    be a repeat? A Tigers-Cards do-over?

    Parent
    Would be interesting (none / 0) (#21)
    by MO Blue on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:25:05 PM EST
    I'm not going to make any predictions since the Cards have a history of doing the opposite of what I think they will do.

    Maybe with the help of their animal totems (aka "Rally Squirrels) they can go all the way. ;o)  

    Parent

    Officially throwing my support to Brewers (none / 0) (#26)
    by caseyOR on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 01:44:29 AM EST
    in the NLCS. My apologies to MO Blue and Zorba and any other Cards fans. I am a lifelong Cubs fan, and as such, there is a law that requires me to always cheer against the Cardinals. Ruffian is also subject to this law.

    So, I can't believe I am typing this, but here goes:

    GO, BREWERS!

    Parent

    Beware of the Rally Squirrel ;o) (5.00 / 0) (#29)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:27:18 AM EST
    All ye who cheer against the Cards.

    Parent
    Boooo! Boooo! (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Zorba on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 08:54:07 AM EST
    Sorry, casey, but we accept no excuses or apologies!   ;-)

    Parent
    I'm with you casey. (none / 0) (#34)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:01:40 AM EST
    There will be no Cardinals cheering in this house. Even the dogs have been warned.

    I still can't get used to the Brewers being in the NL, much less the Cubs division.  But it does make this an easy call.

    GO BREWERS!

    Parent

    Maybe having you and Casey (5.00 / 0) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:20:02 AM EST
    cheer for the Brewers is a good thing. You both regularly cheer for the Cubs, no? How has that worked for the Cubs? ;o)

    BTW, I have it on good authority that the dogs are closet Card fans. ;o)

    Parent

    Good point (none / 0) (#75)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:17:39 PM EST
    And the dogs would love to chase that rally squirrel!

    Parent
    I bet they would (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 07:57:40 PM EST
    Wouldn't it be a gas if a "Rally Squirrel" showed up in Milwaukee?

    My SIL said he even saw a billboard with the squirrel in his baseball hat. Not sure what it was advertising but someone did some quick turn-around on that ad.  

    Parent

    The "Rally Squirrel" strikes again (none / 0) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:32:32 AM EST
    this time in Philadelphia.

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- At least one "Rally Squirrel" was caught in his tracks.

    Two days after a pesky critter scampered across home plate during an NL playoff game in St. Louis, another squirrel was captured before Game 5 in Philadelphia.

    Nutty, right?

    Philadelphia pitcher Roy Oswalt used his glove, trying to snag the squirrel near the warning track at Citizens Bank Park hours before the deciding game between the Cardinals and Phillies.

    The squirrel was eventually caught by a member of the Phillies grounds crew and released. link



    Parent
    We just got smacked upside (none / 0) (#10)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 10:18:50 PM EST
    the head today with the new Alabama Immigration legislation.  We have lived here for five years and license our cars here as often the military does when are at a long term duty station.  We are not legal residents of this state though.  My husband is a resident of Florida and I am a resident of Colorado and we both actively vote in the states of our legal residence.  I have a valid Colorado drivers license.  But to have our cars licensed this year I must bring my birth certificate to the DMV, my military I.D. will not serve either.  I must prove I was born in the Unites States and my military I.D. does not say that I was.  I don't know what I would be doing in country illegally with a military I.D. but what the hell ever!

    National I.D. card is coming. (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by caseyOR on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:14:32 PM EST
    You know it. It will be sold to the voters as a convenience, you know because all the states that have passed and will pass these draconian Orwellian laws will each differ slightly from the other. So, to make it easier on the American people, Congress will establish a National Identification Card. It's to help us, really.

    And, of course, we will be required to have said card on our person at all times and to present it upon demand by any official person anywhere.

    I hope they use better cameras than DMV. The least the feds can do is make sure our pictures are good.

    Parent

    I can't really get to upset re a poss. (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:24:29 PM EST
    national i.d. card.  Seems like we are in the minority not having one.  

    Parent
    I have mixed reactions (none / 0) (#32)
    by ruffian on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 08:28:01 AM EST
    If it serves to separate financial data that is identified by SSN from the strictly identification stuff, it could be a improvement. And my engineering mind hates using a drivers license for things non related to driving.

    To me it depends on the circumstances we would be asked to produce it. Air travel and check cashing, fine. Much more than that, not so fine.

    Parent

    The military has spouses from (none / 0) (#28)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:10:14 AM EST
    all over the world though.  If your name is on a vehicle title or registration you must provide birth certificate or passport or Alabama I.D. or driver's license or the car cannot be licensed here, not even by another person if their name is on the registration and title as well.  All persons listed on the title or registration must provide proof of being a U.S. resident or proof of being legally in country or the car cannot be licensed.  What a huge pain, and the fact that you are here due to military service with your military I.D. means nothing to the State of Alabama.

    Parent
    Alabama use to the world's easiest (none / 0) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:51:22 AM EST
    place to get a car titled. As a result it became the state for people to bring stolen cars, get a new title, registration and then resell the car out of state.

    Sounds like they made it harder on criminals.

    If your name is on a vehicle title or registration you must provide birth certificate or passport or Alabama I.D. or driver's license or the car cannot be licensed here, not even by another person if their name is on the registration and title as well.


    Parent
    I have plenty of valid I.D. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:57:47 AM EST
    saying I am who I am.  I don't think this has anything to do with criminal theft.  This is all about illegal aliens.

    Parent
    Also Jim (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:01:17 AM EST
    They told me my CO driver's license would work if it was issued specifically declaring me a U.S. citizen.  My CO driver's license does not do that, neither does my military I.D.  This is about immigrants.

    Parent
    I can take anyone's birth certificate in (none / 0) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:58:22 AM EST


    Parent
    Better not come to TN (none / 0) (#46)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:51:32 AM EST
    because you must

    a. Surrender your old license.

    b. Provide a certified birth certificate or US Passport.

    c. Utility bills or rent receipts showing 4 months residence.

    Otherwise we gonna ship you back to Alabama!

    ;-)

    My info on AL's past problems were correct. I know they made some changes years ago. How that relates to them wanting illegal immigrants sent back and this new bill I do not know.

    Parent

    I'm an active duty military dependent fool (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 01:05:17 PM EST
    Do you remember any of this?  All of us traveling around in the military retain our initial state residency.  You don't change residency just because the military sends you someplace. I am by law a Colorado resident.  All DMVs of all 50 long term duty states have different ways of handling licensing our vehicles....and this is Alabamas way and Whatever man.

    Parent
    All I have (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:57:57 AM EST
    to say is i hope that in TN they don't require that you get the license within 30 days of moving there.

    When I moved to Ga, all you had to do was surrender your driver's license and take some stupid computer test.

    Parent

    You know (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 10:56:32 AM EST
    I had my purse stolen when I lived in SC and when I went to the DMV the told me they could only take my birth certificate. I looked at them and said ANYBODY could come in here with my birth certificate and say it was me and you would never know. This was back in the 80's too. So i had to drive with no license for weeks until I could have my birth certificate mailed to me from another state and then go back to the DMV.


    Parent
    Our method of personal IDing (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 11:09:55 AM EST
    is terrible.

    I favor a national DNA bank and when requested for ID, say when checking into a hotel or renting a car, we just swipe a swab across our tongue.

    If it fails a gigantic bolt of lightening comes down and reduces you to a handful of ash which is immediately washed down the drain for collection in the Solent Green process.

    Parent

    Can't wait to get ahold of your hairbrush (none / 0) (#60)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 01:23:25 PM EST
    Jim.  Better burn your toenail clippings like they did in the days of fearing witches.  Someone who doesn't like you could have them show up at some crime scene.  A DNA bank is the dumbest idea evah

    Not to mention how someone would sell my mapping to the corporations so they could make a profit off of my genetic shortcomings.  Horrible horrible idea

    Parent

    Local newspaper is now listing names (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by oculus on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 01:31:52 PM EST
    of persons arrested each day.  No other info--just the name.  Why?  

    Parent
    I see that your sense of sarcasm and humor (none / 0) (#62)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 02:14:33 PM EST
    remains undeveloped.

    ;-)

    BTW - On a recent trip I had to show ID as follows.

    At the airport ticket counter.

    At the airport TSA security point.

    At the rent-a-car counter.

    At the hotel check-in.

    At the hotel to cash a check.

    At the airport ticket counter.

    At the TSA security point.

    At the off premise parking lot to pick up my car.

    Somehow the thought of someone stopped by the police and suspected of being illegal having to show some ID doesn't bother me.

    Parent

    I see you consistently miss (none / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 02:37:09 PM EST
    every point I make.  I don't mind showing I.D. and our current methods are/were working just fine.  This new deal in Alabama is only part of their new draconian immigration laws and goody for them on how ostracized the military will now be made to feel here.  We have an entire tower on Fort Rucker dedicated to speaking only Spanish, we have pilots coming here for training all over the lower Americas and flight school is generally a two year process, and we are hiring for that tower all over the lower Americas.

    This will all go over like a fart in a space suit.  I anticipate at some point that those with military I.D. will end up being excluded from this sham.  It all just took affect and happened to happen right when I'm supposed to get my plates renewed.  But red states and wingers hate upsetting the military, they would prefer to keep us "insanely" happy and ignore how brown we all are.

    Parent

    Yeah, the current methods are (none / 0) (#64)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 03:15:41 PM EST
    working so well that we have about 12 million illegal immigrants in the country.

    And as for the trainees not liking....

    I mean it's not like I didn't have to obey all the local laws in the countries I visited in the military and as a civilian.

    Parent

    And now we have fruit rotting in (none / 0) (#65)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 03:21:02 PM EST
    the fields this year...this season.  Immigrants are willing to make such poor wages that they must sleep five to a room, not Americans.  Who would want to do such a thing other than them?

    And many of the companies who hired illegals and pay them horribly were owned and operated by Republicans looking to increase their profits even more.  The trouble is just as much American employers looking to not pay their way as it is "illegals".  Things in the U.S. aren't that great though anymore Jim, or haven't you heard?  It is probably shocking to you to know that for most of those who live in Mexico...they have things better there than they would here.

    Parent

    CA growers aren't having success trying (none / 0) (#66)
    by oculus on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 03:24:03 PM EST
    to hire "legals."  Despite very high unemployment and CA state protections for farm workers.  Expecting shortages and very expensive fruits and veggies.

    Parent
    Suck it up people (none / 0) (#70)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:40:41 PM EST
    We don't have a God given right to pay people zip for stoop labor in horrible conditions just so we can have low priced fruit and veggies.

    Pay enough and people will come.

    Parent

    How many of the companies (none / 0) (#71)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 05:41:38 PM EST
    were owned by Repubs and how many by Demos and what is the source of this amazing revelation??


    Parent
    Smart move (none / 0) (#11)
    by CoralGables on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 10:30:32 PM EST
    on the Florida residency. It's quite common with military personnel.

    Parent
    He lived there (none / 0) (#12)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 10:34:28 PM EST
    when he joined, from Orlando.  I met him in Colorado and was a resident of Colorado when we married.

    Parent
    If I remember correctly (none / 0) (#37)
    by Coral Gables on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:43:52 AM EST
    military personnel that were ever based in Florida, even if no more than a short stint, can remain a resident of Florida (I presume that holds as long as they remain in the military). That's a profitable fringe benefit I'm sure most all career military use to their advantage.

    Parent
    There are several states without (none / 0) (#41)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:55:30 AM EST
    state income tax.  I'm not sure what is required to claim residency in the military.  Only know we were both legal residents of those states when we became active and a dependent.  I do know one person who got in trouble for trying to claim residency in a state that they were not a legal resident of, and that was only because they were a horrible jerk to everyone so someone was compelled to turn them in for being cheaters.

    I know of one person here who hasn't been active duty for five years now, he served with my husband when we were in Colorado.  Got out shortly after, but his cars still all have CO plates because CO still thinks he is active duty and licenses his cars for about $35 each.  Only active duty can get such a deal in CO.  Like I said though, he hasn't been active duty for five years and is now a military contractor and owns a house here.  Pretty sure legally he is an Alabama resident.  He was always a douche though too.

    Parent

    At one time (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 11:04:19 AM EST
    Active military could claim citizenship of their home state, typically state of birth, another state in which they had established citizenship or the state they were currently residing.

    This claim was for taxes, voting and auto registration/titling. I use to have my Mom mail me the new license plates every year and since TN had no state income tax I paid no state income tax.

    I suspect this has not changed.

    And yes, some people take advantage by making false claims. But if caught they'll pay a hefty fine. One way to get around this is make people show up for new tags and license renewal or provide a affidavit.  

    Parent

    The states you are residing in longer (none / 0) (#68)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 04:14:45 PM EST
    than a year want you to license your vehicles in that state.  It is desired, and in Colorado some of the commands came to request that soldiers PCSing to Fort Carson license their vehicles in Colorado.  I believe the command here has requested it as well...that while here they want our vehicles licensed here. But both my husband and I are on the titles to our vehicles.  I am a Colorado resident and he is Florida, we choose to remain residents for voting purposes because we understand the politics of those regions...we are from there for large portions of our lives and may return to one or the other when we retire.  But it makes sense for us to license our vehicles here because we are residents of different states until he is no longer active duty and we have lived in a state long enough to legally claim residency.  No matter how you try to fudge this though Jim or splain it away, the military is going to be angry and alienated by this new BS and so be it.

    Parent
    Interesting to learn Schoenberg (none / 0) (#14)
    by oculus on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 10:44:29 PM EST
    composed a setting of the Kol Nidre for an L.A. synagogue for Yom Kipur:  LAT

    $39,000 backpacks. Sold out. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 07, 2011 at 11:30:31 PM EST
    Class war?  We don' need no stinkin' class war.

    http://life.salon.com/2011/10/07/olsen_twins_39_000_backpacks/singleton/

    Anyone (none / 0) (#38)
    by Coral Gables on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:47:10 AM EST
    else have an issue when clicking on the link to the right to look at your past comments? Mine only pop up showing the limited time frame of March 2008.

    And then (none / 0) (#39)
    by Coral Gables on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 09:48:54 AM EST
    this comment appears too. Maybe the MIB have grabbed everything I've written here since April 1, 2008 through yesterday.

    Parent
    Which definition of "MIB"? (none / 0) (#52)
    by oculus on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:15:15 PM EST
    acronym finder

    Parent
    that would be (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by CoralGables on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:41:25 PM EST
    these bad boys

    Parent
    Sometimes around then (none / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:30:45 PM EST
    I think there was a software issue that makes old comments unavailable... Or it may be that all the memory allocated has a 3/2008 cut off.

    Parent
    Breaking. (none / 0) (#54)
    by Jackson Hunter on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:22:36 PM EST
    Al Davis apparently has died. I'm not sure of how and what, but he is dead. A tip of my cap to the Raider Nation.

    Jackson

    At home (none / 0) (#58)
    by nycstray on Sat Oct 08, 2011 at 12:49:14 PM EST
    is all I'm seeing. He was 82.


    Parent
    Friday Night Open Thread: Yom Kippur | 87 comments (87 topical)

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