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Wednesday Morning Open Thread

Hectic day for me. No blogging.

Open Thread.

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    Did anybody (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:48:06 AM EST
    see this tweet about the earthquake?

    There was just a 6.0 earthquake in Washington. Obama wanted it to be 3.4 but the Republicans wanted it to be 6.0 so he compromised.

    ROTFLMAO.

    the quake would have been smaller (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 11:20:28 AM EST
    if Obama had gone to Camp David instead of Martha's Vineyard

    & it wouldn't have happened at all if he hadn't gone on vacation

    but it definitely would have been larger if he had been windsurfing instead of biking

    then again, it would have been smaller if he hadn't been wearing "mom" jeans and a dorky helmet

    /s

    Parent

    Obama in mom jeans (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by CST on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 11:30:53 AM EST
    was probably one of my favorite images of the 2008 elections.  Thank you for giving that back to me.

    If he really cared about this country he would kite surf.  That's the newest big "thing".  I've never done it, but it looks terrifyingly awesome.  And is too "hardcore" to have the windsurfing "kerry" factor.  Also, if he had done that, there clearly would have been no earthquake at all, because he would have been off the ground.

    Parent

    Here's another belly-buster (none / 0) (#10)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:49:55 AM EST
    This (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:53:11 AM EST
    IS pretty funny:

    Epicenter was situated at the convergence of Bush's Fault, Congress's Fault, Teaparty Fault, and Itsnotmy Fault.


    Parent
    What, no IACF? (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Towanda on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:09:32 AM EST
    Remember, always, it's All the Clintons' Fault!

    Parent
    There are widepread concerns (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Edger on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 03:36:25 PM EST

    that ripple effects will spread across the globe undermining the foundations of human civilization, crumbling infrastructure everywhere, leaving us all on shaky ground, while President Tim Geithner of Goldman Sachs has promised that he will order the White House and the US Treasury to bail out anyone of any consequence, not including you and me of course, though he did chuckle softly and advise that while groceries are beyond your means, biting a bullet if you can afford one may help relieve hunger pangs...

    Mr. Obama couldn't think of anything worthwhile to say at this time, although video surveillance cameras at the corner of Pennsylvania Avenue and Bipartisan Boulevard have revealed that the cause was the poison pill strategy of swallowing all the medicine republicans have brought to the table for the past two and a half years, in one big gulp, and that being fast on your feet is your only salvation....



    Parent
    Too bad Timmy Didn't declare "I'm in control (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by seabos84 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 05:21:32 PM EST
    here."

    of course, if it did that then it would be tooooooooo upfront about who is in fact in control.

    rmm.

    Parent

    Why won't Obama cancel his vacation to (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:58:51 AM EST
    deal with the DC earthquake? The news hasn't reported that he is planning to meet with FEMA - why?

    Is this his Katrina moment?

    link

    link

    I hear he's ready to fly back to the (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:30:59 AM EST
    area as soon as FEMA has identified all the photographs and artwork reported to not be hanging square, and is expected to join a team that will fan out across the area making sure that everyone's patio furniture has been righted.  Rumors are that he is contacting Bill Clinton to head up a global fundraising effort to address the aftermath.

    That was snark, in case you were wondering.

    Yes, there has been some minor damage - a wall on a building here in Baltimore collapsed, some steeples on a church have damage, as does a roof on a school, bricks fell off the facade of a nearby builidng, a quartet of nitwits decided police would be too busy attending to earthquake issues and tried - and failed - to rob a convenience store.

    It's going to be tough, but as I sit here in my office, I'm determined to push through it.

    Sheesh.


    Parent

    "That was snark" (none / 0) (#8)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:43:06 AM EST
    And yet, you failed to realize that I was pointing and laughing at the folks referenced in the links.

    Parent
    I'm busy (none / 0) (#14)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:24:29 AM EST
    But I wanted to take the time to say that I'm sure you both realized you were snarking.

    Yeah, there is a lot of disagreement at this blog, but sometimes you agree.

    Enjoy those rare moments.

    Parent

    Sorry. (none / 0) (#15)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:28:41 AM EST
    But it sure wasn't apparent to me that you were snarking.  Hard to tell sometimes in this format- face to face is easier.

    Parent
    Apologies for not reading the (none / 0) (#19)
    by Anne on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 10:21:20 AM EST
    snark into your comment (sometimes, as obvious as we think our intent to snark is, I've learned that it's easier to just state that it's snark, instead of having to deal with the fallout from the inevitable misinterpretation).

    As an aside, I looked in vain for the "snark" in the links you posted, thinking no one could possibly have been serious about what they were saying.  I guess I should know better, given the sources.

    Parent

    Oh, get a grip (none / 0) (#4)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 07:28:56 AM EST
    This is hardly in the same category as Katrina.

    Parent
    Tell that to the (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Farmboy on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:31:12 AM EST
    "Obama Is Just Like Bush" crowd.

    Or didn't you look at the links?

    Parent

    I don't pay (5.00 / 2) (#9)
    by Zorba on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:43:22 AM EST
    a whole he!! of a lot of attention to random tweets and links to Matt Drudge.

    Parent
    Obama is just like Bush (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 10:14:38 AM EST
    "Obama is just like Bush crowd"?

    There is indeed a crowd?

    Glad to hear about it.

    If there is to be a convention for members, I would like to receive a special invitation as I definitely qualify as a charter member. I would like to receive my discounts on any tee-shirts or coffee mugs.

    I was way ahead of the curve when I saw Obama praising Lieberman's heart and intellect - when I saw him praising Bush's "surge" on Fox News - when I saw him vote for the extension of the patriot act ... But the deal was truly sealed for me when he proudly proclaimed,

    "The only bills that I voted for, for the most part, uh, since I've been in the Senate were introduced by Republicans or George Bush."

    And since his election, I have watch with joy as he morphed at an accelerated pace into the gargoyle that is his predecessor.

    I am so thrilled.
    An organization I can believe in: The Obama-Is-The-Same-As-Bush-Crowd. OITSAB. That's the one.

    Maybe they'll hold the first annual meeting at the Waldorf.

    Parent

    More cave-ins... (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by rhbrandon on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 07:00:48 AM EST
    Kicking the NY AG off the foreclosure probe committee: Obama wants to cave on prosecuting the banksters the same way he caved on the Bush tax rates and the debt ceiling.

    So fired up for 2012.

    I can't (none / 0) (#16)
    by lentinel on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:56:59 AM EST
    wait to vote for this guy again.

    What a joy.

    What a pleasure.

    What a shower.

    Parent

    Yeah, it's tricklin' down... (none / 0) (#63)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:18:43 PM EST
    Flash mob: Copengahen Philharmonic Orchestra (5.00 / 3) (#31)
    by caseyOR on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 01:59:16 PM EST
    The CPO is, I think, the first flash mob symphony. They performed Ravel's Bolero to the delight of commuters and travelers at the Copenhagen Central Station.

    I love this piece of music. It always lifts my spirits. I don't know if that is what Ravel intended, but that's how it works for me. Part of that is because it calls to mind the amazing gold medal winning ice dancing performance by Jane Torville and Christopher Dean at the Sarajevo Olympics.

    h/t to Lance Mannion.

    Meant Copenhagen. (none / 0) (#32)
    by caseyOR on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 02:00:54 PM EST
    I transposed the h and the g. Sorry.

    Parent
    That was wonderful (none / 0) (#59)
    by sj on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:32:24 PM EST
    Thank you.

    Parent
    I'm listending to "privacy advocate" (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by observed on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:49:51 PM EST
    Debbie Wasserman-Schulz (self-proclaimed) talk about her proposal to require ISP's to store ALL records of site visits for ALL the public.
    F*cking fascist. Oh wait---she's in my party.
    Way to go, Debbie! I'm feeling all ABG about you now!

    Saw a headline re Washington (none / 0) (#7)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:38:24 AM EST
    Monument to be inspected post-earthquake.

    Der Spiegel appar. did (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:51:33 AM EST
    consider the earthquake newsworthy. Lots of space devoted to DSK's future, Germany's incorrect call re Libya, and whether Merkel is capable of handling the Euro-crisis.

    It's all about the indies (none / 0) (#17)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 10:02:49 AM EST
    So why are both parties turning them off?

    On one hand, we have an incumbent president with dismally low job-approval ratings; his signature legislative accomplishment of health care reform remains very unpopular, and he is presiding over an enormously weak and worsening economy. This is a combination sufficiently bad to prevent any president's reelection.

    On the other hand, we have an opposing party whose center of gravity and energy levels have swung so far to one side of the ideological spectrum as to have been designed to alienate the independent and swing voters, the people who will effectively decide this presidential election. To put it more simply, this election is the Republican Party's to lose, and yet, they may pull it off, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

    It's hard to argue with the proposition that President Obama is extremely weak heading into his reelection campaign.  Though presidential job-approval ratings don't begin taking on predictive value until about a year before the actual election, his 40 percent Gallup job-approval rating for the week ending July 14, with 52 percent disapproving, is not good.  Although 74 percent of Democrats approve the job he is doing, among independent voters, a group he carried by 8 percentage points in 2008, just 36 percent approve; among Republicans, only 9 percent approve.

    In the end, upwards of 90 percent of Democrats will likely end up voting for Obama just as more than 90 percent of Republicans will end up opposing him; it's that independent group that will likely make up all the difference.  Americans are known to vote their pocketbooks, and the economy is almost inevitably the dominant issue. The August 11-14 Gallup Poll that got all the attention (the one that showed that only 26 percent of Americans approved the job Obama was doing handling the economy) indicated that his approval rating among independents on handling the economy was just 23 percent--on creating jobs, 24 percent. Those are ugly poll numbers, consistent with a president losing reelection.  Yes, President Reagan had some awful job-approval numbers in the first half of 1983. but by this point they had turned up above where Obama is today and didn't drop to this level for the duration of his reelection campaign. In short, Reagan had already turned the corner by now.



    Not that (none / 0) (#21)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 11:23:52 AM EST
    you're going to get the answer from the National Journal but the truth is that the voters don't like conservative ideas. Look at some issue polls. They are a better indicator and you have both parties either overtly promoting conservative policy (GOP) or passive aggressively promoting it (Democrats)

    Parent
    All eyes (on the east coast, north of georgia) (none / 0) (#23)
    by CST on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 11:58:49 AM EST
    are on Irene right now.

    "Federal officials have warned that Irene could cause flooding, power outages or worse all along the East Coast as far north as Maine, even if it stays offshore. The projected path has gradually shifted to the east and Irene could make landfall anywhere from South Carolina to Massachusetts over the weekend."

    Most likely, based on geography and the fact that it's "shifting east" it will hit either North Carolina or RI/MA first, with Long Island also being a slight possibility.

    I hope Obama plans on going home before this weekend.  Based on the projected path, I would not want to be on that island this weekend.  More importantly to me, I hope my grandmother gets off it too.  She can be stubborn at times...

    of course Obama (none / 0) (#25)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 12:32:29 PM EST
    could have stopped Irene cold by not going on vacation

    he could still change its path by leaving the Vineyard

    i wonder what the effect on the hurricane would be - better or worse? - if Obama traded his mom jeans for spandex biking shorts

    Parent

    now that's just mean (none / 0) (#26)
    by CST on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 12:33:40 PM EST
    the Obama in mom jeans mental image made me laugh.

    Obama in spandex biking shorts is just wrong.

    Parent

    How about (none / 0) (#27)
    by jbindc on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 12:52:44 PM EST
    if grandma wears the spandex shorts?  ;)

    Parent
    as they say (none / 0) (#30)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 01:26:19 PM EST
    "fur is merely murder, spandex is inconsiderate"

    Parent
    What are (none / 0) (#28)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 01:14:13 PM EST
    "mom jeans"? For all I know I might wear them too.

    Parent
    If you're over 50, (none / 0) (#29)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 01:22:23 PM EST
    it's almost guaranteed that you do! Maybe Obama should think about wearing Jones of NY's "Not Your Daughter's Jeans." They make you look sleek, not like the dorky mom. And Oprah is the one who made them famous.

    Parent
    Not Even Close to 50... (none / 0) (#39)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 04:08:55 PM EST
    ... and I don't know what mom pants are.

    I'm thinking like brown rayon something or another, but someone mentioned Obama sported a pair.  What are they ?

    I Googled mom pants and there so many versions, from some say sweats, while others say synthetic or jeans.  WTF, why haven't I heard of this business.

    Parent

    it's a style not a material (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by CST on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 04:13:24 PM EST
    this is the best example I can think of.

    It's possible they (SNL) invented the term.  Link

    Essentially, high waisted, pleated jeans.

    Parent

    And tailored for boxy butts (none / 0) (#41)
    by shoephone on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 04:19:53 PM EST
    and protruding bellies...

    Parent
    News on Illinois job market. (none / 0) (#24)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 12:02:33 PM EST
    Checkmate? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 02:19:42 PM EST
    .

    That appears to be closer to confirmation than contradiction.

    .

    Parent

    just for laughs (none / 0) (#37)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 03:10:00 PM EST
    found this in the comments on another site (comment is about Ron Paul):

    he comes off as a nut even when he's not saying something crazy


    of course there is (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 05:40:49 PM EST
    the earth tends to, well, move when ur doin it rite . . .

    Parent
    Perry surging Romney sinking (none / 0) (#44)
    by Politalkix on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 05:39:48 PM EST
    link

    Romney is expecting to win the nomination by avoiding Iowa, South Carolina and the South. Good luck with that! His strategy at this stage seems to be to let Perry run away with the nomination and get a second life if the governor from Texas trips. Romney may have hired Guliani as a consultant.

    That might work (none / 0) (#48)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:04:56 PM EST
    'cause I've always said if Romney is going to get the nomination he's going to have to do it without the south anyway.

    Worse than that is the fact that if Perry wins the nomination and Obama having done such an abysmal job for the last few years, we could be dealing with him for President. Perry is downright creepy but the attacks on him haven't started yet and there's a lot of material there I understand.

    Parent

    If Romney hits Perry (none / 0) (#53)
    by Politalkix on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 07:03:46 PM EST
    with attack ads, Perry is not going to hold his fire. I do not think that attack ads will help Romney, it will only solidify Perry's support. At this moment the nomination is for Perry to lose, Romney does not control his destiny.

    Parent
    If that happens (none / 0) (#55)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 07:33:00 PM EST
    that's just lovely (NOT) because Obama will have brought possible radical fundamentalism to the country by his own ineptness if Perry is the GOP nominee and wins the election.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#57)
    by Politalkix on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:11:09 PM EST
    This "Blame Obama First" way of thinking is downright silly. People are responsible for their votes. It is as stupid as blaming your ex for his/her "ineptness" that "forced you" to marry a "radical fundamentalist".
    If people like what Perry offers, they will vote for him. Otherwise, they will not.

    Parent
    Don't you think (none / 0) (#61)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:52:50 PM EST
    that Bush's ineptness had to be somewhat of an advantage to Obama?

    You're also forgetting the people that will be sitting home because they don't want either one.

    Parent

    Here we go again (none / 0) (#64)
    by Politalkix on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:20:30 PM EST
    The comparison of Bush to BHO is silly. BHO won because people wanted to vote for him. It is Perry that resembles GWB (actually Perry is worse than Bush), there are no similarities between Obama and Bush presidencies and personalities
    If people sit at home, it would tell me that even if they are not enthusiastic about Perry, they would not mind what he offers. That is fine as long as they do not complain later.

    Parent
    if i am not mistaken, (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by The Addams Family on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 11:54:34 PM EST
    we have not (yet) reached the point where people forfeit their first amendment rights through failure to vote for Barack Obama, whether said failure comes from staying home or from voting third party or writing someone else in

    & that's regardless of what you've decided repudiation of Barack Obama tells you, & regardless of what you think is "fine"

    If people sit at home, it would tell me that even if they are not enthusiastic about Perry, they would not mind what he offers. That is fine as long as they do not complain later.


    Parent
    Hmmmm (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by MO Blue on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 05:32:35 AM EST
    Authoritarians for Obama. A good fit, no? :-(

    Parent
    Firebagging Sloganeers (none / 0) (#70)
    by Politalkix on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 06:42:45 AM EST
    from the exclusive "Blame Obama First" Club? Hmmm...

    Parent
    More like (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by MO Blue on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 07:17:12 AM EST
    Obama is responsible for the decisions that he makes. When he makes decisions that are poorly thought out or harmful to the citizens of this country, he is responsible for those decisions.

    By his own words and the words of people high up in his administration, he underestimated the extent of the harm to the economy. He had people in his administration that counseled him to take bolder action and he chose (once again documented by his own words) to small ball the stimulus. We can see the results of that decision. Once again he is responsible for the decision to go small.

    He has chosen to cut spending rather than concentrating on creating jobs. Many of his decisions have cut jobs rather than create them both at the federal and state levels. Another one of his "so called job creation" programs the trade deal with S. Korea is estimated to offshore at least 159,000 jobs rather than create more jobs here at home. He is responsible for those decisions.

    He chose to not only extend the Bush tax cuts but make them even more generous to the top brackets and to increase the amount of tax exempt inheritance from $3.5 million to $5 million. These tax breaks were personally negotiated by Obama and he is responsible for those decisions.

    He personally negotiated cuts to the safety net programs with Boehner. Those cuts, if as reported by numerous sources, are made they will be both extremely wrong headed (costing society more than they save) but will be extremely harmful to the poor and the middle class. Obama has tenaciously pursued cuts to the safety net programs since he has taken office and continues to do so. No matter how many times efforts to enact these cuts have failed, Obama has come back and forced through additional processes to get the job done. Too bad he has not been as tenacious on job creation. Obama is responsible for these decisions.

    He chose to extend and expand the Bush assaults on civil liberties. He chose to have the Pentagon negotiate staying in Iraq  after the Dec., 2011 deadline. He chose to expand the troop levels in Afghanistan and negotiations are under way for an agreement that permits U.S. military involvement until at least 2024. Obama is responsible for these decisions.

       

    Parent

    Firebagging Sloganeers? (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by nycstray on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 01:10:59 PM EST
    Really? You're reduced to name calling as a means of support for Obama? My sympathies . . .

    Parent
    Take a deep breath (none / 0) (#79)
    by Politalkix on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 05:04:58 PM EST
    and go through the thread once again. I did not even bring up BHO. My post was about Mittens and Perry and the Republican primary. Ga6th brought up BHO. Surely there has to come a time when you get that eureka moment in your life which makes you realize that the bone you were choking on or the bump you received in your head was not caused by something the President did or did not do! There are a number of people who criticize the President in DKos (teacherken, bobswern...). I find their criticisms pretty constructive. Please check how they discuss issues and engage with people and compare that with what some of you do here. It will be pretty educational.

    Parent
    Lessons in "taking a breath", ... (5.00 / 2) (#80)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 06:27:46 PM EST
    ... "constructive criticism", "how to discuss and engage with people" ...

    ... from Politalkix?

    Heh.

    Next up, Rush Limbaugh discusses the importance of healthy diet and exercise ...

    Parent

    If I am not mistaken (none / 0) (#69)
    by Politalkix on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 06:34:55 AM EST
    I have my first amendment rights too which allows me to express my opinions. Last I checked, the first amendment right was not granted only to members of an exclusive club "Blame Obama First".


    Parent
    You ARE mistaken (none / 0) (#77)
    by sj on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 01:08:03 PM EST
    if you think your first amendment rights have anything to do with your need to put your words into the mouths of others.  There may not be a legal remedy to such disgusting behavior, but you don't get to lie about someone else's opinion and not get called on it.

    Parent
    I'm talking (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 06:16:53 AM EST
    about Obama winning because of disgust with Bush. Pretty much Obama won by default because he certainly didn't make the campaign in '08 about issues. It was about "him" and "making history". If Obama can win by default so can Perry even though I loathe that thought.

    Parent
    You are, of course, entitled to make (5.00 / 3) (#75)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 08:56:52 AM EST
    whatever you want of people's decisions to stay home, or not to vote the top of the ticket, but I would hope that when people actually tell you the rationale behind their decision, you will not presume to argue with it.

    And if, for example, you hear enough people report that they didn't vote for either candidate because they (1) did not feel either one deserved their vote, (2) felt the two parties were no longer offering stark enough differences that it was going to matter much who won, (3) have gotten to the point where they're tired of being asked to vote for people who don't have their interests at heart, you will consider that your stated presumption, that not voting translates to people not particularly minding what Perry has to offer, might be somewhat off the mark.

    I mean, haven't the opinions expressed here on this blog been at all educational for you, in terms of understanding why people may not vote for any candidate for president?  I realize the people who post here may not represent a truly scientific sample, but I think it's enough of one to reach a better understanding than the one you have come to.

    The tale may actually be told in your last sentence, that it's fine as long as they don't complain later.  Funny thing about those pesky First Amendment rights you've been kind of squawking about...they work both ways, and I don't think there's anything in there by way of an addendum that precludes future expressions of opinion on the basis of one's voting record.

    Nice try, though.

    Parent

    People "voted for Obama" ... (none / 0) (#73)
    by Yman on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 07:25:58 AM EST
    Yep - some people voted for Obama because, like you, they wanted to vote for him.  Others, however, voted for him because they were sick of GWB and his failed policies, or the tanking economy that they (rightly) blamed on the Bush admin, or because they bought the "lesser of two evils" argument.  The problem is, now that Obama has a record, he can't just make vague promises of "Hope" and "Change" and tell people to check out the website.

    Obama now has a record, and it's one that he's having an increasingly difficult time selling.  Now, like GWB, he's become the incumbent that makes some people choose "anyone but ... ".

    Parent

    No surprise (none / 0) (#74)
    by jbindc on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 08:18:38 AM EST
    Perry is the shiny new object and Romney has been around. Romney also didn't participate in the Iowa Straw Poll, but he has slowly been courting precinct captains and raking in the fundraising dough. He's the new and interesting kid on the block.  It's also summer and Congress is out of recess and the pundits have to focus on something and analyze it to death.  If Eric Cantor entered the race in October, you'd see the same kind focus on him and Rick Perry would be fighting for members of the media to remember his name.

    Parent
    Employers to stop offering health coverage (none / 0) (#46)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:02:15 PM EST
    INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -- Nearly one of every 10 midsized or big employers expects to stop offering health coverage to workers after insurance exchanges begin operating in 2014 as part of President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, according to a survey by a major benefits consultant.

    Towers Watson also found in its July survey that another one in five companies are unsure about what they will do after 2014. Another big benefits consultant, Mercer, found in a June survey of large and smaller employers that 8 percent are either "likely" or "very likely" to end health benefits after the exchanges start.
    ...The percentage of companies that are already saying they expect to do this surprised some experts, and if they follow through, it could start a trend that chips away at employer-sponsored health coverage, a long-standing pillar of the nation's health system.
    ...
    Such a move could lead to more taxes for both companies and employees, since health benefits currently are not taxed, and companies could be fined for dropping coverage. It also would give their employees a steep compensation cut if they don't receive a pay raise, too. link

    Feel the magic of those exchanges.

    The flip side (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:07:55 PM EST
    is that it will probably make single payer happen a lot quicker simply because when people start having to pay those insurance premiums and realizing what they are going to get in return, they are going to start looking around at other options IMO.

    just from personal experience, once I had to pay for all my medical costs myself is when I really started to think that single payer might be a good thing. There's no other way to keep health costs down.

    Parent

    I hope you are right in your assessment (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:36:35 PM EST
    What I see developing is a planned shift of actual health care costs onto individuals. People will still be required to pay expensive premiums but will be required to pay more out of pocket for actual care.  To date the current wisdom is that if people have to pick up more of the tab, they will think harder about receiving care. That is the main cost control.

    Before my little insurance commenter comes along and states that the policies on the exchange provide high actuarial coverage, the exchange is only set up to provide good coverage for the poorest people on the exchange.

    Exchange policies
    Incomes of 201% of poverty ($23,126) get silver plans (73/27 201%, 301% 70/30).
    When you get to plans for people at 401% of poverty or over (no subsidy), the basic premium purchases a policy with a 60/40 split. Source: Kaiser

    Excise Tax in Health Insurance legislation

    The idea is that an excise tax would persuade workers and employers to choose lower-cost plans. While technically a tax on insurers, they are expected to pass along those costs to policyholders.

    Section 1401 of the Amendment - High cost plan excise tax: Starting in 2018, high cost health insurance plans will be subject to a tax. Plans for single persons that cost in excess of $10,200 and family plans that cost in excess of $27,500 are in this sections crosshairs. The excise tax rate on incremental costs will be 40 percent. In an attempt to appease union dissent, this tax will not be assessed on the individual but will be assessed on the insurance company providing the plan. Ultimately, the costs will still be burdened by the purchaser
     

    The 2014 forecast exchange unsubsidized premium for individual  coverage for someone 60 is $10,172 (medium price market) and $12,206 (high price market) for a 60/40 plan. Source: Kaiser

    Medicare (Obama/Boehner negotiations): Raising the eligibility age, imposing higher premiums for upper income beneficiaries, changing the cost-sharing structure, and shifting Medigap insurance in ways that would likely reduce first-dollar coverage.  

    Parent

    Steve Jobs resigned. :( n/t (none / 0) (#47)
    by nycstray on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:04:41 PM EST


    Just heard - really sad for what it means about (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by ruffian on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 07:05:31 PM EST
    his health.

    Parent
    LINK (none / 0) (#50)
    by Dadler on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 06:16:37 PM EST
    The latest hit in Obama care? (none / 0) (#56)
    by Towanda on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 07:50:56 PM EST
    Or where the heck did this come from?  A friend says that they were advised of the following by a CPA:

    Children covered under the health care bill, which allows for coverage of children between the ages of 19-26 who are not full time students or disabled or don't have health care from their employers, are going to be taxed on the COBRA cost of the value of their insurance benefit ($415.00/mo) retroactive to Jan 1 2011. This tax is per child. That amounts to an additional tax liability of almost $5000/yr per child.

    Please let be this some stupid rumor gone viral.  I hope that those so savvy here about the recent health insurance "reforms" can torpedo this.

    Something's wrong with the math: (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Anne on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 07:19:23 AM EST
    The value of any benefit that is added to anyone's income, would get taxed at whatever marginal rate applies to the person's total net income; an annual benefit of $4,980, at the 28% rate, would result in $1,400 in additional tax, not $5,000.

    Not sure I would want to retain the services of the CPA who provided the cited example...

    I also found this, at the Labor Department's website:

    Q17: I understand that there are tax benefits related to the extension of dependent coverage. Can you explain these benefits?

    Under a change in tax law included in the Affordable Care Act, the value of any employer-provided health coverage for an employee's child is excluded from the employee's income through the end of the taxable year in which the child turns 26. This tax benefit applies regardless of whether the plan or the insurer is required by law to extend health care coverage to the adult child or the plan or insurer voluntarily extends the coverage.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Q18: When does this tax benefit go into effect?

    The tax benefit is effective March 30, 2010. Consequently, the exclusion applies to any coverage that is provided to an adult child from that date through the end of the taxable year in which the child turns 26.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Q19: Who benefits from this tax treatment?

    This expanded health care tax benefit applies to various workplace and retiree health plans. It also applies to self-employed individuals who qualify for the self-employed health insurance deduction on their federal income tax return.

    I see nothing that suggests that the value of the benefit that is not includible in the employee's income is then includible in the child's.

    Parent

    This applies to State of WI Group Health Ins (none / 0) (#60)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 08:49:22 PM EST
    IMPORTANT TAX IMPLICATIONS

    Adult dependent children until the end of the calendar year in which they turn 26: Effective March 30, 2010, federal tax law was amended by the Affordable Care Act to allow employees to cover their adult child on family health insurance through the end of the calendar year in which the child turns 26 without any federal taxes consequences. Prior to March 30, 2010, if an employee covered an adult child on health insurance who did not meet the support test for federal income tax purposes, the fair market value of the health insurance benefits provided to those dependents will be included in the employee's gross federal and state income. The tax code in the State of Wisconsin has not been updated for this federal provision, so if an employee carries an adult child on family health insurance who is not considered a tax dependent for health insurance purposes, the fair market value of coverage for that child(ren) will be included in the employee's taxable state income and will be taxed accordingly.

    Domestic partner, domestic partner's children and employee's adult children who turn 27 during the calendar year: There are tax consequences to you when you provide coverage for dependents who are considered "non-tax dependents" for health insurance purposes under federal and state tax codes. Family members who are eligible for coverage under State Group Health Insurance but who are not automatically considered your tax dependents include your domestic partner, your domestic partner's children and your adult child who turns 27 within the calendar year. For example, if you have a domestic partner who is not dependent on you for at least 50% of his or her support and maintenance, your domestic partner is considered a non-tax dependent for health insurance purposes. If you cover dependents who are considered non-tax dependents for health insurance purposes under federal law, the fair market value of the health insurance benefits provided to those dependents will be included in both your state and federal gross income. This amount is considered "imputed income." This will increase both your taxable income and your tax liability. Unless your domestic partner, your partner's children or your adult child who turns 27 within the calendar year qualify as a dependent under the "qualifying relative" test under Internal Revenue Code (IRC) §152, you will be taxed on the fair market value of the cost of coverage provided.  link

    If I'm reading that correctly, no federal tax will be assessed for any child through the end of the calendar year in which the child turns 26. If the tax code has not been updated at the state level for this federal provision and an employee carries an adult child on family health insurance who is not considered a tax dependent for health insurance purposes the fair market value of coverage for that child(ren) will be included in the employee's taxable state income and will be taxed accordingly. IOW no tax at federal level but could be taxed at the state level.

    Parent

    I think you've got it right, MO Blue. (none / 0) (#62)
    by caseyOR on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:18:31 PM EST
    One of the many ways that domestic partnership is not the same as or equal to marriage is in the way health insurance benefits are dealt with in the tax code. As the piece you cited says, anyone who is a not considered a dependent for tax purposes must pay taxes on the value of the insurance.

    While the federal tax law was changed for adult children up through age 26, IFAIK, it was not changed for domestic partners. I suspect that DOMA makes such a change impossible without some kind of legislative action.

    I doubt Wisconsin is the only state that has not changed its tax code in this area. In fact, given the sorry state of state budgets around the country, I would be more surprised to learn of states that have made this change.

    Parent

    I was surprised on how broad the (none / 0) (#65)
    by MO Blue on Wed Aug 24, 2011 at 09:41:52 PM EST
    eligibility was for children under the age of 27. You can carry them on your policy even if they are no longer dependent on you financially. IOW they can be working full time and living on their own. No problem. You can even cover married children (not their spouse) on your policy until they turn 27.

       

    Parent

    Oh, good -- for me (none / 0) (#76)
    by Towanda on Thu Aug 25, 2011 at 09:47:39 AM EST
    and mine, most of us no longer there.

    This did come from a friend in Wisconsin, so that explains it -- not a federal problem but another problem from Walker.  What a sorry state that state has become.

    Parent