home

Kneel Before Your Gods

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:34:00 AM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Via Glenn Greenwald, Mother Jones blogger Rick Ungar:

On a day when Americans of all stripes should have been giving thanks to both President Bush and President Obama for doing whatever it is they do that has protected us from a tragic repeat of the events of September 11, 2001[.]

(Emphasis supplied.) Who was Mother Jones?

[When she] was denounced on the floor of the United States Senate as the "grandmother of all agitators," she replied:

I hope to live long enough to be the great-grandmother of all agitators.

I'm not sure that she would consider Rick Ungar one of her political descendants.

Speaking for me only

< Sullum on Obama: "Bummer, Just Another Drug Warrior" | Shocked To Discover The GOP Does Not Play Fair >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Kneel Before Your Gods | 52 comments (52 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    OMG (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 08:56:06 AM EST
    Please forgive me for not kissing George W Bush's a$$ in all the right places at all the proper times so that as history has shown, President Obama could and would then feel compelled to have 200,000 troops in Iraq or risk feeling not as good as Dubya in the eyes of the a$$ kissers.

    If I ever go to war I hope my enemy is Rick Ungar.  I will attack him viciously on all of his observed holidays since he can't defend himself on those days let alone fight :)

    Almost forgot (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 08:59:30 AM EST
    Sorry I made tyrants and neocons uncomfortable on 9/11/11.  Sorry I let them know that the history on all this is nothing short of a horror on America's part too and that using a national tragedy in such a manner will have long term soul damaging consequences and should never ever happen again.

    Parent
    Awaiting Jim's reaction! (none / 0) (#12)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:36:35 AM EST


    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:05:14 AM EST
    The two of us arguing as we do around 9/11 over the things we do must be something :)  There is a conservative instructor on Fort Rucker, older gentleman, who is interested in beginning to blog.  He's a very impressive person in many many ways.  I'm supposed to meet with him on Friday and share with him what I know and my experiences.

    At first I thought about how much he could improve things online....be this kind of saner conservative voice out there....I fantasized that he destroys Redstate and please God CNN hires him....he reminds people that conservative wasn't always out of their mind crazy as hell.  I don't know though.  You get online, you don't have to actually LIVE with each other in that realm, it goes to hell so easily :)

    Parent

    Wow MT advising a new blogger who (none / 0) (#16)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:08:33 AM EST
    is conservative.  What will she wrought?

    Parent
    I have a lot of conservatives in my life (none / 0) (#19)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:20:34 AM EST
    Funny thing about liberals and conservatives, when people shoot at us or our family members....a certain sort of shared sanity begins to set in.  I was very upset last night though.  Colonel friend in San Antonio who offers to help us with Joshua when we are there and is a friend of this guys...his son was a Lt in Afghanistan and just got home.  Broken, barricading himself in his room, we will probably spend Friday talking about this instead because I know of some resources that I hope they will consider using and you won't get from the VA right now.  I just found out about this though, this is one of the horrible realities of going to war.

    Parent
    And it's the reason... (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Dadler on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:08:15 PM EST
    ...I worry about my brother every day.  He is the king of keeping it all inside.  Scares the sh*t out of me for him.  

    Peace your way, MT.

    Parent

    Do I remember correctly (none / 0) (#47)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 06:54:24 AM EST
    that your brother is still serving?

    Parent
    Still in the Marines (none / 0) (#48)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:05:36 PM EST
    But stateside now, four tours later, working for the NSA, doing he'll-never-say-what.  

    Parent
    Oh Dadler (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:10:46 PM EST
    You've got a true believer on your hands.  Let the love lead you.  Brothers forever, you know they say that nobody knows us better than our siblings.  Nobody is genetically closer to us and we grow up together, go through many growing up situations together.

    Of the true believers remaining in this fight now, everyone I've met has been properly humbled.  I met this guy a few weeks ago who said it best, the machismo bull$hit has been exposed for what it was and we are over it now.

    Parent

    They could not have a more loyal kid... (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by Dadler on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 05:38:25 PM EST
    ...to completely screw over.  It's been better for him the last year I think, but before that, forget it.  And yet...there he still is.

    Parent
    A good friend I work with is about to (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:15:16 PM EST
    deploy over there with the Navy Reserves. Father of 4. Please extend your MT protective shield!  

    Parent
    it is a reality of war, (none / 0) (#45)
    by cpinva on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 07:47:24 PM EST
    but most especially this particular type of war, the kind that never ends, where there are no discernible "front lines", with a (relatively) safe area to the rear. a war where telling friend from foe is a matter of guesswork, and the kid selling you sodas could well be hiding a bomb under his shirt. a war where there is absolutely no relief from a constant high level of stress, ever, until you leave the country.

    it is a war(s) of attrition, between us the interlopers, who must cart in everything we need, and the local bad guys, who survive on rice and some water. a pair of wars where our guys fight just to survive their tour, and make it home in one piece.

    this is the legacy of george bush and his minions. having said all that, i must admit to a dwindling level of sympathy and caring for those currently in the service and doing their umpteenth tour, in whichever wartorn hellhole they happen to be in. they all volunteered, knowing upfront what they were getting into. the first go round, i'll give them the benefit of being young and stupid. after that, they knew it, and re-upped anyway. i must (reasonably, i think) assume they enjoy it, or they're psychotic. in either case, i'm not sure i want them back in the states, as they will potentially be a danger to everyone here.

    what this country needs is a good draft, put  everyone at risk, everyone. we would be out of both afghanistan and iraq in short damn order.

    Parent

    I don't think we would be out of (none / 0) (#46)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Sep 15, 2011 at 06:16:26 AM EST
    Afghanistan with a draft, not at this point and if we had started out with a draft we would not be out of Afghanistan yet.  I'm going to be extremely frank in saying all of this.

    A draft could have perhaps wound down Iraq sooner, I doubt it though....we were in Vietnam for eight years.  What a draft could have done where Iraq is concerned though?  The shame about what the Bush administration did with the trauma and pain of 9/11 would be more profound at this point, we wouldn't be getting these write ups dissing those of us who were honest about that shame and horror a few days ago.  

    We just got bin Laden though, and we have been devastatingly hitting the terrorist networks finally.  This President decided to do the real job.  Understand that when he came into office he started out with no real usable intel to do almost all of this, and the networks had dug into hiding because the Bush administration would have hit one of them if it had been easy.  The Bush administration would have done anything for a winning headline.  They were not going to work for any of it though.

    President Obama started literally from scratch and got bin Laden a little over two years in.  We are at a place where winding down Afghanistan talk is spoken in the beltway.  A draft at this point would change that for the worse.  More fresh soldiers and fresh commitment would fuel a lot of people who have different ideas that aren't getting any traction right now.  Our military is the military of a bureaucracy that is its own bureaucracy.  Fresh innocent meat sets off its meat grinder, causes it to light up like a pinball machine.  It is best at this point that we finish this with the volunteers and worn and jaded so that it can be finished.  I don't want anyone's innocent or unwilling and I don't want fresh perspectives on Afghanistan to distract us from the grueling truths we must face.

    I believe that the dangers and the threat of Al Qaeda and the affiliated must be addressed, and any President who would not address those dangers was a one termer.  I will not abandon a serving family when war comes home to them as well.  And when one of us is damaged  I will do what I can, and I happen to know of some resources that have been better able to address trauma than our current VA does and when one of us is hurt like this I believe we owe that person to do all we can for them to be able to heal and heal well.  Have quality of life.

    There are many ways people can experience deep dreadful trauma that can lead to PTSD.  Experiencing 9/11 did that to many people that were there that day too.  The horror that day of being in New York, of watching people fall or jump out of the towers would do that to you.  You don't have to go to war to become that sort of broken, it is only the most overall successful consistent supplier of the brokenness.

    Parent

    Is there a sentient being who did not (5.00 / 5) (#3)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:14:45 AM EST
    understand that this milestone anniversary was going to be politicized to death?  That we were going to be constantly reminded that all the "measures" we took in the aftermath are the reasons we have not been attacked since?  That we should be grateful we have leaders who can cast aside the Constitution in the name of security, such that our safety was not threatened by crazy liberals who believed that preserving our democracy and our individual freedoms in the face of attacks and threats was the best way to show we would not be cowed or intimidated by terrorists?

    Krugman got slapped around for telling a truth no one glorifying the security state wanted to hear, and the more the glorifiers pile on Krugman, the more their duplicity and disingenuousness is revealed.

    Trust me when I tell you that Krugman may have been one of the only public voices who was off-script, but there were a lot of us ordinary people who were questioning the motives and pointing out the hypocrisy.  Who see quite clearly that 9/11 will continue to be used as a stick to keep us all in line, cow us into not objecting each and every time more of our freedom is lost.

    This was so much less about the remembrance of the fallen than it was about glorifying the security state, it's actually a little frightening to see the over-the-top efforts to get Krugman to back down.  

    Mother Jones (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:16:33 AM EST
    Also said:

    "Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living."

    Amen.

    How did we become such a nation of big babies? (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by sj on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:29:06 AM EST
    Handing up our civil liberties and personal privacy on a silver platter and all the while saying "Thank you".  

    As usual, follow the money (5.00 / 4) (#6)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 09:52:19 AM EST
    The same people that complain about the 'nanny state' when it costs them money are the ones that insist on a security state when they are raking it in hand over fist selling security related goods and services.

    Parent
    Manners.....civility (5.00 / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:25:02 AM EST
    No matter how uncivilized those you are forced to room with, the mark of a great human being is how well you can maintain your manners and civility no matter how horrendous the actions of others or the circumstances....or maybe that's a great human being mark.  Admittedly, I'm still working out where that line between manners and mattering is.

    Parent
    My son is a Buddist and I think (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by the capstan on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:23:05 PM EST
    He'd second your remarks about civility and manners.  Except that having grown up gay, the result of doing that often leaves him simmering.  I think that a higher calling (especially recalling WWII) is to hang on to your integrity and to demonstrate to  the offenders that some actions and words are beyond the pale, beyond being unanswered by folks of good will.  I, for one, will not stay in the company of those who (for example) demonify gays or the underprivileged.  But before leaving their company, I'd have a few words to say concerning their spoken or acted depravity, as I'd call it.

    Parent
    "Those who would (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 02:20:44 PM EST
    give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin.

    True then, even more so now.

    Parent

    Didn't ya (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by lentinel on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:10:29 AM EST
    love it when Obama thanked W. "for his service"?

    One of the reasons I did not wach any (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Anne on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:35:47 AM EST
    of the ceremonial goings-on, because I knew at some point it would become a meeting of the Authoritarians Chapter - Executive Power Division - of the Mutual Admiration Society.

    Parent
    More like self-service (none / 0) (#23)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:01:31 PM EST


    Parent
    LOL... (5.00 / 5) (#8)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:22:34 AM EST
    "for whatever it is they do"...if ya don't know what they do why are you thanking them Ungar?  Fishing for a tax break or something?

    Sounds like a real bootlicker that one.

    Carl Ogesby, leader of SDS, (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:46:08 AM EST
    has died.  He didn't kneel.  LAT

    Why no protests today?  Just because no draft?  Could be.  

    I passed the Dubya white house (5.00 / 2) (#25)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:06:12 PM EST
    several times during his reign.  There were very few protesters.

    Blogging ain't a replacement for in-your-face.

    Parent

    I was wondering if the AP-LAT obit (none / 0) (#28)
    by brodie on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:20:08 PM EST
    would mention Oglesby's many years of involvement in researching the real truth of the JFK assassination.  It did but in a typically snarky and misleading way:  "in recent years, Oglesby was obsessed with the assassination of JFK."

    You can't have a sane and strong interest in studying Dallas -- the MSM considers that an "obsession".  He also began publicly writing about the case starting (iirc) in the mid-70s, which means about half his adult life, hardly just "in recent years".

    Good guy who on VN and Dallas was courageously asking the right questions and standing up boldly for truth.

    Parent

    we should consider ourselves (none / 0) (#39)
    by jondee on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:46:36 PM EST
    lucky they mention Oglesby at all. I'm thinking back to a couple of years ago, when the wmd-pimping NYT, in it's magazine section's notable passings of the past year issue, devoted four pages to George Steinbrenner and nothing about the passing and career of Howard Zinn.

    If I remember correctly, Oglesby, vis a vis Kennedy, seemed to be more or less thinking along the same lines as Julian Assange in believing that American post-WWII foreign policy had been hijacked by the hard-right and the war profiteers.
    The kind of people willing to sacrifice a "soft on communism" president if it provided the pretext for a full-scale invasion of Cuba.

     

    Parent

    What a Load (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:17:55 PM EST
    Now I am to 'Kneel Before My Gods' to 'Give Thanks' to the very machinery that created the world hostilities that lead to this event.

    Our imperial goals, belief in policing the entire world, and our cash hungry corporations are what lead to the desperation that created terrorism.

    I'll be GD'ed if I am going to thank the very clowns that created the hostilities behind terrorism for keeping me safe from it.  And once again, some how, the very act itself, 9/11 is something we shouldn't blame anyone for, just praise the protection since.  What a load of garbage.

    I can stop terrorism in the US today, pull back the military and let all US firms fend for themselves across the world.  No more US citizen subsidized protection to make kazillions if far off lands.  We can buy US products with the DOD expenditure saved by leaving our nose out of the world affairs that don't effect us.  We might actually get people working again when they can't buy foreign made junk and are forced to pay actual costs of keeping it's citizens living above poverty.  

    Which should be the ultimate goal of any nation IMO, enriching the citizens lives at all costs, including the division of massive wealth.

    every day (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by CST on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 01:25:14 PM EST
    I go to work, do my job, and get $hit done.

    Funny, I can't recall people ever clapping for me because they didn't die going through that new intersection.

    Usually I just stand there to get shouted at because someone is pi$$ed off about the new school going in down the street from them.

    Anyone who has ever worked in/with the government/public process, knows that it's your job to take heat when things go wrong, and on good days you are simply ignored.  

    So thanks I guess, to everyone out there who is doing the job they were hired to do.

    I think that goes for most jobs (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 02:03:09 PM EST
    You get something called "a paycheck" for doing your job and doing it competently (leaving aside those who are allowed to coast and are not competent).  But the goal is - that's what you get.  If you do not do a good job, then you lose your job and lose your paycheck.

    (That was always the philosophy in my house growing up.  When I wanted to get paid cash for A's on my report card, my parents pointed if I worked hard at the end of the marking period, I got a good report card and THAT was my paycheck. Yeah, they were cheap  :))

    Parent

    your parents sound like mine (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by CST on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 02:16:34 PM EST
    "you got a B, what happened?"

    "you want money? get a job"

    A's were expected, B's were tolerated, and everything else was trouble.

    Being paid for those grades was not even close to being an option.

    Parent

    Exactly. (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:35:53 PM EST


    Parent
    Mine, too (none / 0) (#41)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:56:17 PM EST
    Pay for A's?  What a thought!  We got A's, and the reward was that we all got academic scholarships for college (and for the remainder of the tuition, our parents helped as much as they could, and we worked summer and part-time jobs to pay the difference).

    Parent
    I never realized.... (5.00 / 2) (#44)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 05:12:24 PM EST
    till reading your comment that most jobs are just like being an offensive lineman.


    Parent
    Obama and Bush have both (5.00 / 3) (#35)
    by Edger on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:22:28 PM EST
    down the world an enormous favor, and deserve all the gratitude and praise the deserve.

    They've made it as clear as day how corruptible US presidents and the political system as a whole can be.

    If I recall correctly I think they both promised in their campaigns to be transparent.

    There are probably not very many people left who can't see through them, and most of the people who would disagree are probably only pretending, for whatever self-serving reasons they may have, to not see through them.

    "done" the world... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:41:45 PM EST


    Parent
    Ungar (5.00 / 2) (#43)
    by chrisvee on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 05:00:05 PM EST
    is a fool and a scoundrel.  How many people died in the Iraq war?  That is what Bush did -- to our eternal national shame.

    Mr. Ungar was born in Youngstown, Ohio, (none / 0) (#10)
    by oculus on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:35:35 AM EST
    Midwesterners, in general, try to appear to be agreeable  See "Prairie Home Companion."  Ungar's famous for "Biker Mice from Mars."  Anyone see that one?   Wiki

    Ha! (none / 0) (#17)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:14:43 AM EST
    Eastern half of U.S. neurotic, Western half psychotic.

    Parent
    "It's either talk to y'all (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:47:17 AM EST
    or talk to a shrink".

    - Rick Danko

    I'd rather talk with y'all:)

    Parent

    - or get a nice dog (or two) (none / 0) (#24)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 12:03:47 PM EST


    Parent
    Sorry, between the Maine, the (none / 0) (#13)
    by observed on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 10:43:35 AM EST
    Holocaust, the Armenian genocide, the massacre of the Albigensians, King Leopold's genocide of the Congolese, the 5 century genocide of Indians by Muslims with a likely death toll of tens of millions, etc..
    my mourning calendar is full.
    I need to get on with my life.

    I feel ya... (none / 0) (#15)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:06:44 AM EST
    anybody feel bad for the slob who got hit by a bus somewhere on 9/11/01?  The slob hit by a stray bullet? Are such deaths before their time any less tragic?  

    It was a horrible thing, a horrible day, those who lost loved ones sufffer still, like all those who have suffered a loss...but we gotta get on with our lives.

    Parent

    I am angry because this real tragedy (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by observed on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:14:52 AM EST
    is being used to cudgel people into accepting aggressive war and the erasure of individual civil liberties.


    Parent
    "Never let a crisis... (none / 0) (#20)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 11:45:24 AM EST
    (or tragedy) go to waste"...or something like that.

    And don't get me started on the 9/11 profiteering, just as unsavory.  Yeah I'm talking to you Ghoul-iani.

    Parent

    I was thinking that the Mexican culture (none / 0) (#36)
    by ruffian on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:23:54 PM EST
    has it right, with their Dia de los Muertos, where all the people set aside a day every year to mourn their lost loved ones. I like to think that is what is behind the seeming disproportionate reaction to 9/11 and other incidents - most of us have someone to mourn, and we are piggybacking on to the 9/11 families.

    Those of us anyway who weren't badgering them, like Ann Coulter.

    Parent

    Maybe its me... (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by kdog on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:59:40 PM EST
    I just don't get down with mourning as public display...I hate wakes, I hate funerals...it doesn't get any more awkward and uncomfortable imo.  For me mourning is mostly a personal thing, done in solitude.

    But if group mourning or public mourning soothes others, by all means party on party people...I don't have to take part.

    Parent

    In the Eastern Orthodox Church, (none / 0) (#40)
    by Zorba on Wed Sep 14, 2011 at 03:52:28 PM EST
    we have several days throughout the year to commemorate the dead.  The Roman Catholic Church also celebrates All Souls Day yearly (the Mexican observance is a combination of indigenous beliefs and the Catholic celebration).  You pray and celebrate the life of those gone before you, and then you move on.  There is really nothing morbid or obsessive about it, and we don't flagellate ourselves over the whole thing.  The belief is that, while we miss them and pray for them, they have gone onto something better.  

    Parent
    SiTE VIOLATOR (none / 0) (#53)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 10:33:44 AM EST
    Jeralyn, tianya201 is a spammer who has hit several threads.

    SITE VIOLATOR n/t (none / 0) (#54)
    by caseyOR on Mon Sep 26, 2011 at 10:34:06 AM EST


    Kneel Before Your Gods | 52 comments (52 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment