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Thursday Open Thread

Another busy day here, including court. And then the snow is expected to fall by Friday. I'm trying all sorts of moving Apps from Apple's App Store to make the moving process go easier, but none so far have been a great help. Room planners, which a bunch of furniture stores provide for free, are just as good, but eat up too many hours of my time.

I did finally pick a storage unit. This company seems head and shoulders above the rest. The building is new, the units are as clean as a house, plentiful staff, and indoor, climate controlled units. When you sign up, they give you two hours of movers with a van, to move your stuff into storage. That's a huge help. Hardly cheap though.

Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Wow. (5.00 / 1) (#1)
    by lentinel on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:00:18 AM EST
    The view from your new place looks absolutely beautiful.

    And the storage facility sounds as if one could just move in there. Plentiful staff. Climate controlled units. Who needs an apartment?

    It is amazing that you got everything together in such a short time - and you have managed to keep blogging and to keep in touch with your devoted readers.

    In the last Open Thread, I started to (5.00 / 3) (#2)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:59:39 AM EST
    post my experience trying to check out Maryland's ACA/Exchange website.  In order to gain access to detailed information about the plans, one has to first create an account.  That requires you to accept their privacy policy before going to the next step, which I think is putting in your name and address...so far, I've been stuck waiting on the privacy page for over 30 minutes.

    What the site has told me is that, for now, I have to go to a different website to search for providers.  The good thing, I guess, is that if you enter the name of the provider, it brings up every plan that provider participates in.  You can also put in the name of a specific carrier to see if someone participates.

    But without knowing which plan is most suited to one's situation, it's hard to know how it all fits together.

    This is (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:20:16 AM EST
    why I did not even bother to check out Georgia's. I did not want to go through the hassle of registering.

    Parent
    I gave up for now...but after all the (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:27:05 AM EST
    discussion about this yesterday, I decided it would be a good idea to check things out so that my comments about the process, the plans, the providers, could be based on something other than just my opinions.

    Parent
    Facts v. Opinion (5.00 / 1) (#168)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:04:04 AM EST
    Dilbert for President! (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:18:38 AM EST
    Gotta gotta gotta love Dilbert.

    Parent
    Hope these wait times are temporary (none / 0) (#7)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:50:52 AM EST
    due to "first week" high volume and will shrink real soon. Many of the working poor have very limited access to computers and with the government shut down, I'm not sure how much help they will be able to get from social service type organizations.

    Parent
    The amount of help available (none / 0) (#13)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:41:21 AM EST
    is dependent on the governor of each state. ACA navigators should be available at state health care offices but the amount of help you might get to sign up as a walk in or by phone at those places is dependent on what each governor permits.

    In Florida, Governor Scott has banned the ACA Navigators from helping. Some counties (large counties that vote mostly Dem and own some of the their own buildings housing health care facilities) have thumbed their noses at him and provided the navigators for assistance.

    For the ACA there is a nationwide 800 number for assistance (1-800-318-2596), but just like the websites, patience for the first week and the last week will be key.

    The good thing is all your available policies under ACA are available to shop and compare in one place, rather than having to call each company to ask questions.

    Parent

    I don't know if you have ever tried to (5.00 / 4) (#23)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:19:43 AM EST
    navigate through a government system, complete with multiple layers of menu options, when you have only limited cell phone minutes and/or limited time between jobs to accomplish the task. The menu items alone normally gobble up your minutes and time like a hungry pacman before magically dropping your call down a black hole and you have to start all over again.

    A lot of the people who need health care the most will really need to have real access to a person to help them or they will be just depleting their few assets (minutes) and spinning their wheels.

    While I make no bones about not liking this insurance legislation and see many problems with it providing actual health care to many, I do want it to work as well as possible to provide some relief for those who desperately need actual health care.

    Parent

    "I don't know if you have ever tried to (none / 0) (#149)
    by desertswine on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:48:05 PM EST
    navigate through a government system..."

    Wow that's for sure. Try the USFWS sometime.

    Parent

    I have beenable to get through (none / 0) (#10)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:29:12 AM EST
    twice on the federal site and register.

    I get an email saying my account has been verified, but then when I go to log in to my account, it says it does not recognize my credentials. I've done this several times (to make sure I am typing the correct password), but to no avail.

    Grr.

    Parent

    The state of Washington 20 years ago had an indecent exposure law that said one could not expose genitals, breasts & buttocks, basically.  Then, between 1998 and 2003, the state leg changed the law so that IE would be exposing your "person" knowing it was likely to cause reasonable affront or alarm.

    One result has been that conduct has been at times permitted in some circumstances which would have been forbidden under the older law, but police will still arrest and the city attorney sometimes charge for complete nudity, when there is a complaint.

    There is a park in Seattle called Greenlake with a walking path of 2.8 miles and lots of lawn and sunbathing areas and other things such as tennis courts and boat rental shack, etc.

    If someone (who is reasonably HWP, not sure if that matters . . .) wears a thong, how do you think it will be evaluated in terms of the law?  Some areas in the East Coast specifically forbid wearing them; others allow them . . . southern California areas that have an IE law usually allow them and at least one area, Huntington Beach I believe, wrote their law to specifically make clear that wearing thongs in public parks/beaches is permitted.

    How do we think Seattle police and/or the city attorney and/or a jury would regard this, at this park?  On one hand, this very unusual to wear a thong at this park and there are people of all ages; on the other hand, the various other areas have mixed views on wearing it should be criminalized.  Any guesses and thoughts???

    I have worn a thong (and shirt) 3 or 4 times this season, for walking around the lake.  No problems yet, but is it too soon to tell?

    I suppose I understand - sort of - why (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:02:01 AM EST
    someone would choose to wear thong underwear, but I have no idea why it would be so important for someone to need to wear a thong to take a walk in a park; it does seem a tad exhibitionist to me.

    If you're that worried, you have several options: (1) call the city attorney and ask for an opinion, or (2) put on some pants.

    Parent

    A Tad? (none / 0) (#42)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:34:46 AM EST
    How snooty...  

    but I have no idea why it would be so important for someone to need to wear a thong to take a walk in a park
    Oh my, get out the fainting couch, someone wants to feel sexy (or comfortable) in public..  

    think of the children...  all the repressed adults who are havin sexual feelings (oh my) while thinking of the children.. and other steamy things..  heads must be be exploding with this sort of short circuit..

    good thing that puritanical laws can protect us from being ourselves (sentient human beings)

    Parent

    You must spend a lot of time alone. (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:17:05 AM EST
    [rolling eyes]

    Parent
    And just what are you insinuating? (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:42:20 PM EST
    (LOL!) ;-D

    Parent
    That he has zero social skills; (5.00 / 4) (#97)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:10:07 PM EST
    although, his comment did get a little creepy somewhere in the middle, didn't it?

    Parent
    Just a little (2.00 / 1) (#117)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:46:44 PM EST
    snide and vicious today?

    Parent
    Yes, squeaky certainly is being snide and (5.00 / 1) (#125)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:35:50 PM EST
    vicious today; I don't think you can find a comment he's made today that isn't.

    Parent
    sj is at least up front (none / 0) (#129)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:50:54 PM EST
    with his aggression, not passive aggressive denial.

    Parent
    sj is (none / 0) (#132)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:08:39 PM EST
    a female, so it would be "her," not "him."

    Parent
    Aw Z... (none / 0) (#136)
    by sj on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:43:43 PM EST
    Now he'll just get that much more pleasure out of trying to grind me into the ground :(

    Not that he can, of course :)

    Parent

    Nope, I'll leave (none / 0) (#138)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:01:42 PM EST
    it to you...

    Parent
    ::snicker:: (none / 0) (#140)
    by sj on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:14:21 PM EST
    You are reduced to totally childish statements, I see. I bet I can do that, too... wait, wait! I have one!

    "I'm rubber, you're glue..." or something like that.

    Parent

    Do you have anything (none / 0) (#122)
    by sj on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:14:15 PM EST
    substantive to say on the topic?

    Parent
    Why certainly, I can (none / 0) (#127)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:45:39 PM EST
    And I usually do.

    What about you?  I wasn't even addressing you, but predictably you chime in....

    Parent

    Of course I did, my darling (none / 0) (#135)
    by sj on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:38:25 PM EST
    I couldn't resist observing that you are doing exactly what you so hotly criticized me for. What was that you said again? Something like...
    Your supposed macho ... enforcer routine is misplaced here...Do you think you are some self-appointed Zoro[sic]?
    I mean, I completely understand that you would much prefer your obvious hypocrisy go unremarked, but I have this memory, you see. And anyway, while it's a dirty job, someone's got to do it.

    But I must admit I find I am genuinely interested in your substantive remarks wrt public airing of one's a$$ via thong. I am standing by.

    And now I await your next series of slash and burn down ratings. I may comment on each of of them tonight. Because why not? It's an Open Thread. Anyone can comment. Which you know, of course, because you "chimed in." As is customary. Of course, then you want to hurl at others who choose to "chime in".

    Then again maybe I won't ... it is a good TV night... decisions, decisions...

    However, I absolutely cannot wait to see what isolated and out-of-context sentence fragment in this comment that you next choose to rant about. Knowing of course, that you will absolutely ignore any reference to your own hostile behavior. Oh my gosh. The anticipation! It's almost as delicious as the anticipation of your substantive remarks on thongs in public.

    Parent

    Wow, that really got you (none / 0) (#141)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:16:38 PM EST
    to write up a storm...

    I suppose macho was the wrong word...,Good for you.

    Parent

    Even you (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by sj on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:29:05 PM EST
    cannot upset my good mood. My grand nephew is off meds for infantile epilepsy in time for his 2nd birthday. It's a good, good day. So carry on. Snipe away, and I'll just swoop in and amuse myself as necessary.

    FWIW I've written a number of detailed comments in response to your queries, which I treated as serious questions. Only to discover that all you were looking for was a clause upon which to hang another of your hostile comments. So no surprise now that you are not taking the opportunity to share your thong-wisdom.


    Parent

    Good for you and (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:54:41 PM EST
    your grand nephew.  Good news indeed.  Enjoy your evening!

    Parent
    What great news, sj - can't think of a better (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:16:23 PM EST
    reason to be 10 feet off the ground with happiness!

    Parent
    zaitz, I doubt you'll be ticketed by SPD (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:06:59 PM EST
    After all, this is the same police department that made pot offenses their lowest priority years before passage of the initiative to legalize pot for personal use.

    That being said, I frequent Greenlake, and walk the trail around the lake whenever I don't have time to go and do the trails at Discovery Park. And frankly, I'm not interested in seeing your a$$ hanging out of your thong, whether you're HWP or not. Maybe you could save your exhibitionism for the Fremont Solstice Parade.

    Parent

    Can't evaluate the quesiton till I learn (none / 0) (#19)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:58:19 AM EST
    what HWP stands for.

    Sounds like they have written the law so anyone that feels disturbed by the attire can make a complaint to whoever polices the park. Seems like they could also complain about women breastfeeding uncovered.

    Parent

    "Height-Weight proportional" (none / 0) (#20)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:06:10 AM EST
    And personally (none / 0) (#21)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:07:40 AM EST
    I don't want to see ANYONE wearing a thong.

    Even those models who wear them in magazines (who are airbrushed and shot in good lighting) really aren't as attractive in person in one.

    No one needs to see you bare a$$ at a public park.

    YMMV.

    Parent

    Depends on who is wearing it... (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:54:09 AM EST
    for me;)

    But it shouldn't be a crime for anybody...social stigma can handle inappropriate attire and/or nudity.  And if the wearer can handle the social stigma while rocking their thong, more power to them...freedom means seeing things you'd rather not see.

    Parent

    I'm behind you on this one. (5.00 / 2) (#35)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:06:23 AM EST
    :-)

    Parent
    Wear a thong (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:04:49 AM EST
    in your backyard - have at it.

    Parent
    Not everybody has a yard... (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:15:58 AM EST
    for them, the public park is the yard.  Plus, if it's an exhibitionist thing the yard ain't gonna work for them...they wanna be seen.

    But if enough people laugh and snicker at a thong rocker, they might be shamed/embarassed enough to put on some proper shorts.  If not, we can deal.

    Parent

    A park with sunbathing areas (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:27:08 PM EST
    I don't have a problem with thongs in the sunbathing areas.

    I've seen what people wear to Disneyworld...can't be any worse than the worst of them.

    Parent

    Blindfold? Noseplug? Earplugs? Thick Clothing? (none / 0) (#43)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:36:11 AM EST
    Must be tough being you..  all those people walking around offending your sensibilities.

    Parent
    Nope - only you (none / 0) (#45)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:48:33 AM EST
    And My Thong! (none / 0) (#48)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:56:39 AM EST
    Which, based on the kinds of (5.00 / 4) (#50)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:14:16 AM EST
    comments you make, you must wear on your head.

    Parent
    Personal Insults? (none / 0) (#54)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:37:01 AM EST
    Oh, right you are above that sort of thing..   hahahhaha

    Parent
    Not for nothing (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:42:27 AM EST
    ya gotta admit...that was funny.

    Parent
    Actually - ALL of you (none / 0) (#60)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:02:16 PM EST
    Me either (none / 0) (#80)
    by sj on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:04:05 PM EST
    I don't want to see ANYONE wearing a thong.
    I'm not sure I want to restrict them, however. If someone is comfortable being bisected by string long enough to walk around the lake then I suppose some bragging rights can be excused.

    Parent
    That would have to be a mighty big (5.00 / 4) (#84)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:15:49 PM EST
    string, or a mighty big, well, whatever...still not sure I'd want to see it.

    Parent
    Even when I was (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by Zorba on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:12:30 PM EST
    much, much younger, and much, much thinner, I could not imagine having to deal with a string up my b*tt.  How uncomfortable!     ;-)

    Parent
    You know what's worse than ... (none / 0) (#150)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:36:25 PM EST
    ... people who wear thongs in public?

    People who get their undies twisted in a bunch because of it.

    ;-D

    I guess I'm jaded, because living as I do in a locale where going to the beach is part of its enduring appeal, public quasi-nudity is just not very high on my priority list of urgent social concerns demanding immediate attention and resolution.

    Go to Waikiki Beach on any given sunny day, and you'll see lots of fashion faux pas you probably wished you hadn't. It helps to have a sense of humor.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Greenlake ain't no Hawaiian beach. (5.00 / 2) (#151)
    by shoephone on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:49:49 PM EST
    It's a park. But then you already knew that. Listen up, Donald, I've sunbathed nude in California and in Hawaii -- on Kalalau, which is a nude beach, in case you forgot. Greenlake isn't a nude beach. That some folks people don't want to see somebody's a$$ hanging out of his or her thong at Greenlake Park doesn't mean squat.

    Parent
    Wish I could give you a 10 for this comment (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 07:54:30 AM EST
    You know what's worse than "people who get their undies in a bunch...blah, blah, blah...?"

    People who are sanctimonious and smug and like to patronize people for not necessarily wanting to see other people walking around a public park with their a$$es hanging out.

    Parent

    Yes (1.00 / 5) (#165)
    by squeaky on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 09:32:16 AM EST
    You must have been one of those victorians in a past life that shuddered at the sight of ankles.

    Your prurience puts you on track for advocating eugenics.

    Get rid of all the ugly people and their unwieldy parts that offend.

    Parent

    So, squeaky, can you just admit that (5.00 / 4) (#176)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:27:38 AM EST
    you don't actually read the comments people make, you just look at who is making them and then post some nasty drivel to get your rocks off?

    Shoephone prefaced her remarks with the information that she had sunbathed nude on various beaches, so for you to accuse her of being a Victorian in another life once again reveals you to be severely lacking in comprehension skills.

    And to call her prurient (really?  you're calling her something that is defined as "encouraging an excessive interest in sexual matters?") and on track for advocating eugenics is just a bridge too far.

    I could count on one hand the number of comments you've made that contain any original thought or substance; spewing one ugly comment after another that are completely devoid of substance is the very definition of "troll."

    If you feel insulted, too fking bad.

    Parent

    Not only do you not read what's written (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:12:54 PM EST
    You are just demonstrating how messed up that brain of yours really is. Anne's right -- you've got some creepy stuff going on in there. Maybe you should get some help for that.

    Parent
    Not wanting to see it... (none / 0) (#166)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 09:49:08 AM EST
    is just fine and dandy...everybody has their list of things they'd rather not see or hear in the park or out on the street.

    But when people wish to criminalize or prohibit the things that offend, we got a problem.

    Parent

    Has anyone commenting (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:52:12 AM EST
    here advocated "..wish[ing] to criminalize or prohibit the things that offend?"

    Or, have they simply offered their personal preferences? In other words, "commenting."

    Parent

    There is one obvious (none / 0) (#184)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:08:14 AM EST
    view about these things that most would hold:......One would have to have a flawless figure to look good in such attire....Clothing is not just about modesty but dignity for those of us who do not have perfect bodies.

    And it is not apparent if we are talking women or men or both who are wearing such attire......    

    Parent

    The commenting started... (none / 0) (#189)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:23:11 AM EST
    as a question if it was legally safe to rock out with your thong out...such things are criminalized/prohibited in some US jurisdictions.

    I can't chime in with my preference?  Frowning upon it totally kosher, criminalizing/prohibiting ain't kosher.  Not sure how jb, shoephone, and Anne feel about criminalizing/prohibiting it...but I'd bet at least one supports indecent exposure and/or exposed underwear laws;)

    Parent

    Hey, it's me you're talking to (none / 0) (#192)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:32:48 AM EST
    "I can't chime in with my preference?"...... Really? I don't know about kdog & thongs, but, kdog & straw men?" Say it ain't so.

    And, as to the criminalizing bit? I'll take that bet.

    Parent

    Appy Polly Loggies... (none / 0) (#194)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:43:46 AM EST
    I misread your tone...I thought you were giving me sh*t.

    That's a friendly bet...and I fully trust in the integrity of jb, shoephone and Anne to answer honestly to settle it.  

    Would you support an indecent exposure law in your jurisdiction prohibiting thongs in a public park?

    Parent

    You gotta be kidding me, however, (none / 0) (#205)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:23:36 PM EST
    I might support a law "demanding" thongs (or, no thongs, for that matter)

    But, that's just me, and, since I would never foist my sensibilities onto others, under my new law I would be the only one prohibited from wearing a blindfold:)

    Parent

    I never promoted criminalizing it, kdog (none / 0) (#207)
    by shoephone on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:26:33 PM EST
    I used to do a lot of nude sunbathing -- in areas that were set aside for that. All I said was that I don't think baring your a$$ is behavior that belongs at Greenlake or any other public park. There used to be an area of Lake Washington waterfront that was designated as a nude beach and nobody ever thought that was problematic. Then the major landowner (a billionaire) right next to the designated area decided he could block it off and use it for himself and his cars. Lots of lawsuits, and acrimony, and even though he eventually had to give up a part of the space he wanted to control, it was never really available to sunbathers in the same way again.

    Like said in my first comment, the real exhibitionists wait for the Fremont Solstice Parade each June, and paint their naked bodies all sorts of fun ways, and then go riding their bikes down the streets of Fremont. It's a two decade tradition. Nobody makes a big deal of it, except for some who do show up to point and laugh.

    Parent

    From the Department of ... (none / 0) (#171)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:11:00 AM EST
    ... Things could be even nastier:

    Swedish Court OKs Public Masturbation.

    Parent

    Great news... (none / 0) (#191)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:29:23 AM EST
    for the homeless in Sweden.  

    Parent
    And the ants in Sweden (none / 0) (#195)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:52:51 AM EST
    Not so fast... (none / 0) (#199)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:07:56 PM EST
    first we gotta check if Sweden has laws prohibiting the feeding of insects;)

    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 146 (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:08:22 AM EST
    And who didn't see this coming? (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:35:07 AM EST
    Millions of poor are left uninsured by ACA

    A sweeping national effort to extend health coverage to millions of Americans will leave out two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers who do not have insurance, the very kinds of people that the program was intended to help, according to an analysis of census data by The New York Times.

    Because they live in states largely controlled by Republicans that have declined to participate in a vast expansion of Medicaid, the medical insurance program for the poor, they are among the eight million Americans who are impoverished, uninsured and ineligible for help. The federal government will pay for the expansion through 2016 and no less than 90 percent of costs in later years.

    Those excluded will be stranded without insurance, stuck between people with slightly higher incomes who will qualify for federal subsidies on the new health exchanges that went live this week, and those who are poor enough to qualify for Medicaid in its current form, which has income ceilings as low as $11 a day in some states.

    People shopping for insurance on the health exchanges are already discovering this bitter twist.

    "How can somebody in poverty not be eligible for subsidies?" an unemployed health care worker in Virginia asked through tears. The woman, who identified herself only as Robin L. because she does not want potential employers to know she is down on her luck, thought she had run into a computer problem when she went online Tuesday and learned she would not qualify.



    From the interactive map is this tidbit: (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Angel on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:14:44 AM EST
    The 26 Republican-dominated states not participating in an expansion of Medicaid are home to a disproportionate share of the nation's poorest uninsured residents. Eight million will be stranded without insurance.


    Parent
    Well, to save the village we had to (2.00 / 0) (#153)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:33:48 AM EST
    destroy it.

    As someone wants a singlepayer system based on Medicare as a model I think the Dems should embrace the above. Shut it down and then produce a plan that covers everyone.

    Oh. Wait. We couldn't expect Congress to live under the laws they pass...would we?? Of course not.

    Or at least that's what Harry and Obama are saying.

    Parent

    Right, because ... (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 07:55:25 AM EST
    ... your Republican friends - who won't even accept the ACA - would pass a single-payer, Medicare bill.

    Heh.

    Parent

    Yes Yman (1.00 / 0) (#173)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:15:19 AM EST
    I have Repub friends, Demo friends, Libertarian friends and a few Mug Wumps and several horse thieves.

    Having friends is nice.

    Too bad you don't have any.

    The sad and bad thing is that your Dear Leader, known to the rest of us as the President, got a bill passed that hurts the economy, increases costs, eliminates jobs and doesn't cover who Dear Leader claimed it would cover.

    Of course it is beloved by the insurance corporations.

    Now. Try to address the fact this monumental failure is bad and belongs to you.

    While you do that I will work on how I can pay the 300% premium increase for my supplemental insurance, as well as my wife's.

    Wait! They were supposed to go down!

    Parent

    Owned by me?!? (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:08:24 PM EST
    Hahahahah ...

    Jim - I, like you, want a Medicare-for-all single payer plan.  Unfortunately, the Republicans in Congress wouldn't allow such a plan (save me the BS about the Democrats having a majority in the House and Senate - every Republican filibustered and voted against cloture).  You're one of those that put them in office.  Maybe you can send them the bill!

    OTOH - they'll probably just write you off as one of Romney's 47%/takers, so I wouldn't count on it ...  :)

    Parent

    Well, you do have a point (none / 0) (#190)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:24:39 AM EST
    Of course, the voters were given a choice in the last election, and, they decided that the ACA, in spite of its flaws, was superior to the Republican Plan. It must have really disappointed you because their plan included the things you've always said you liked, like Single Payer, and coverage for everybody, including those with pre-existing conditions.

    I really don't know why the voters rejected the Republican Plan, "Emergency Rooms for Everyone! No one denied; Everyone Pays"

    (The actual ad had a string of smiley faces):):):)

    Parent

    The ACA was not passed by referendum, (5.00 / 3) (#196)
    by Anne on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:54:51 AM EST
    but by Congress; did some people make their presidential votes on the basis of that one issue?  Maybe, but even if they did, I don't believe anyone knew enough about the law to have been making more than a not-so-educated guess that it would be better than the current system.

    Truth is, the bulk of the ACA IS the Republican plan - it's the Bob Dole/Heritage Foundation plan resurrected, dusted off and re-labeled as "Obamacare" in order to generate as much antipathy and resistance to it among GOP voters as they could in order to try to deny that black guy another 4 years in the WH.

    From what I can see, the cost-sharing in these exchange plans may put a lot of people no closer to being able to afford care than they were before.  Add to that that employers that offer fairly good plans are already "adjusting" co-pays and deductibles and out-of-pocket maximums to avoid the so-called "Cadillac" tax that won't kick in until 2018.  I know this because my firm has just announced that they're doing that - I don't get my insurance through my employer, but I also haven't gotten notification of what my premiums will be in my individual plan for 2014, either, so I don't know what my situation will be.

    The whole thing irritates the crap out of me; it's just beyond comprehension when the so-called wealthiest nation on the planet is willing to spend this much time and risk this much damage to people's economic lives in order to safeguard an insurance system that is enriching no one but themselves and their investors, without markedly improving the health and quality of life of those paying out the a$$ for a laminated card.

    Sorry, but if there's anything more stupid than arguing over insurance, it's got to be arguing over fking thongs...

    Parent

    Feh (none / 0) (#201)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:10:04 PM EST
    you're just like every other neo-confederate voter I know. You will say well, the Dems didn't do this or the Dems did not do that but they did offer something with the GOP basically offering nothing and they'll still vote for the GOP. It's truly not about issues. It's about the fact that it's not 1950 anymore and the GOP keeps promising to bring back the 1950's. The neo-confederates feel that their "culture" is under attack and the only ones that will defend their "culture" is the GOP.

    Parent
    BTW - Another winger myth (none / 0) (#161)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 08:00:01 AM EST
    Oh. Wait. We couldn't expect Congress to live under the laws they pass...would we?? Of course not.

    Or at least that's what Harry and Obama are saying.

    Factcheck - Congress and an Exemption from `Obamacare'?

    Is it true that there are bills in the House and Senate that will exempt members and their staff and families from buying into Obamacare?

    FULL ANSWER

    Several readers have asked us about Congress attempting to exempt itself from the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. A few said that a Facebook post claimed that President Barack Obama, Sen. Harry Reid and Democrats in Congress were trying to "get themselves exempted from Obamacare," in the words of one reader.

    But there is no bill in Congress calling for an exemption from the health care law. In fact, members of Congress and their staffs face additional requirements that most Americans don't have to meet.



    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#162)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 08:09:40 AM EST
    They will have to purchase at least the "gold" plan levels.

    Regulations issued by the Obama administration this week would require members of Congress to buy one of the top-tier insurance plans from the ObamaCare exchanges.

    The Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) of the House sent guidance to members of Congress this week, based on a directive from the Office of Personnel Management (OPM), that says they must choose plans from the "gold" level of insurance coverage, not "bronze" or "silver" plans. "Platinum" is the only higher level of coverage under the exchanges.

    "For plan year 2014, Members of Congress and designated congressional staff will choose from 112 options in the Gold Metal tier on the DC SHOP," CAO said in a fact sheet that was emailed to Congress.



    Parent
    From your link (none / 0) (#170)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:07:17 AM EST
    "You see, bronze and silver's only good enough for everyone else in the country. For members of Congress and members of the Senate and their staff, it's gold or nothing."

    The fact sheet also says that the only way for members of Congress to get subsidies for their insurance plan is by using the Washington, D.C., health insurance exchange, or SHOP.

    "All Members of Congress, including representatives of U.S. Territories, and their designated staff will be required to purchase health insurance via the DC SHOP in order to receive a Government contribution," it says. "The DC SHOP offers health plan options with in-network access to medical providers across the nation and overseas."

    Harris said allowing members to be subsidized for only buying gold-level coverage is probably why many members don't want to eliminate the subsidy for Congress, something Republicans have been pushing.

    "That's why this fight has been for a clean CR. No one wants to remove that exemption," he said.




    Parent
    "Yes"? (none / 0) (#206)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:25:51 PM EST
    What was the question?

    The claim is that Congress/staffers/Obama are exempt from the ACA.  They're not.  In fact, according to your link, they're required to enroll in one of the more expensive plans in order to qualify for the employer contribution - something other employees are not required to do.

    No `Special Subsidy' for Congress - Factcheck

    Congress isn't "exempt" from the law. It wasn't exempt back in 2010, when we first debunked such a claim; nor were lawmakers exempt in May when the bogus bit surfaced again. Three months later, they're still not exempt. In fact, as we've said before, lawmakers and their staffs face additional requirements that other Americans don't. And the "special subsidy" to which Pittenger refers is simply a premium contribution that his employer, the federal government, has long made to the health insurance policies of its workers...

    ... Why the unusual requirement for lawmakers and congressional staffers? This provision was added when health care bills were being debated, out of Republican concern that Congress get the same insurance that would be offered to some Americans through this legislation -- insurance sold through state-based and federal exchanges. Those exchanges are for individuals who buy their own insurance, including the now uninsured, and small businesses.

    Our readers may recall that before this provision was created, there were claims circulating that Congress was "exempt" from the law. This twisted reading of the legislation was based on the fact that originally Congress, like other Americans with work-based insurance or Americans on Medicare and Medicaid, wouldn't be eligible for the exchanges. In other words, Congress was supposedly "exempt" when members couldn't participate in the exchanges, and now that they are required to do so, they're still somehow "exempt" from the law. Neither of these convoluted claims is true.



    Parent
    I would think (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:41:53 AM EST
    that 1. the majority of the poor live in the south and 2. most of the southern states are the ones that refused the medicaid expansion. So yeah, i'm not surprised to hear this but then again the poor people in the south are the ones that vote for the tea party wackos so here we are.

    Parent
    I Don't think... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:41:22 AM EST
    ..." two-thirds of the poor blacks and single mothers and more than half of the low-wage workers" are voting republican.

    Let's not forget, since we both reside in these kinds of state, things like gerrymandering and voter suppression.

    Your comment is the equivalent of people from other countries stating something like, "Yeah most Americans voted for Bush, so yeah not surprised the economy collapsed..."  Not exactly, but you are basically blaming them for their stations in life, at least their insurance status and that's not right.

    The people that actually voted tea party are furious over the ACA and delighted with the shutdown, which I don't think are the same folks who are finding themselves without insurance, once again.

    This is squarely on republican governors, and in Texas Perry won the election by 55%.  If you extrapolate that over all the citizens, 26M, that is 11M folks who are living under a republican governor that don't support his policies.

    If I am not mistake, the ACA accounted for this, but the SCOTUS struck down the provision.

    Like you and me under Bush/Perry/Cruz/Chambliss, it totally sucks and surely it's not our fault the US economy collapsed or the government is shut down, we just happened to be living with more gullible and/or idiots who think R's have our best interest at heart.

    Parent

    I was speaking more generally (5.00 / 2) (#31)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:57:13 AM EST
    than the article in that the majority of people in the south are poor and of those excepting minorities vote GOP. Or at least that has been my experience. Look at the some of the poorest counties in GA and unless they are majority African American they vote GOP.

    I know. Living blue in a red state full of crackpots is no fun. I used to try to defend Georgia but I've kind of given up. If the majority of people in Georgia are going to elect someone like Chambliss then the state deserves ridicule even though there are those who do not agree.

    Parent

    That's the result (none / 0) (#17)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:47:14 AM EST
    of thinking both parties are the same. Only some states with Republican Governors have turned down the expansion of Medicaid which prevents them from gaining free coverage.

    Parent
    Unfortunately not restricted to (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:30:08 AM EST
    only some states with Republican governors.

    MO has a Democratic governor and a veto proof Republican majority up in the state capital. Even after a great deal of pressure from the business community (hospitals, doctors etc.) and the media, they have refused to expand Medicaid. According to them the ER is the only health care that poor people need. They don't really care about the limited care it provides or the fact that it costs a whole lot more.

       

    Parent

    I did not know that (none / 0) (#30)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:56:01 AM EST
    I thought all Dem Governors had won that battle. Good to see Jay Nixon is still pushing for Medicaid expansion in Missouri though.

    Parent
    Thoughts (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:27:01 AM EST
    From today's Huffington Post - Hawaii

    What's a Citizen to Do?

    I teach that there are only two conditions under which enlightened approach to negotiation or problem-solving are not possible. It is important to know when these conditions exist because it should inform your strategic choices when dealing with such folks. These are: 1) when the other party doesn't want the problem to be solved (i.e., when their very identity is tied to keeping the fight ongoing); and 2) when their definition of "winning" includes the other party "losing" (i.e., they seek to inflict harm or deny any satisfaction to the other). If either of these circumstances exists, a collaborative approach to problem solving is doomed to fail. I perceive both of these conditions to be at play in Washington and in many state legislatures right now. When these conditions apply, you have only two strategic choices -- to cave or to crush them.

    Seems like it's time to crush them.  Does Obama and do the Democrats have the will?

    And, full disclosure - the author is my aunt, so on another topic - one that is dear to my heart and one that will hopefully make you smile in these weird days - here's her blog post about my grandfather, who will turn 99 in less than a month and who is thrilled that his beloved Pittsburgh Pirates finally made the playoffs.  He pretty much is the cutest man ever.  :)

    I read the post about your grandfather; (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:57:58 AM EST
    I have no doubt that his outlook on life is one reason he's almost 99 years old!

    He sounds like quite a guy - thanks for sharing that with us.

    Parent

    Your Pappy... (none / 0) (#44)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:38:46 AM EST
    should hang out with Phil Coyne, the star of the Buc's long-awaited playoff run.

    Old-timer has been working for the Pirates since 1936...he f8ckin' saw Babe Ruth play!  Awesome story.

    Parent

    Some years ago, but in the new Pirates' park (none / 0) (#93)
    by scribe on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:43:33 PM EST
    (which, if you've never been there for a game, is worth the price of admission all by itself), I was at a game.  In my section - not the expensive seats - I saw a middle-aged gentleman - sport jacket, slacks, tie - wearing what looked like a World Series ring. He was chatting with fans in the stands, making his way around the section.

    Well, it was a 1971 WS ring. I got to have a good look at it.  The wearer was Nelson Briles, a pitcher of that era who'd pitched for the Cards in the late 60s (on their glory teams) and then the Bucs on their '71 WS team.  I remembered who he was, told him I'd had a few of his baeball cards (before they got thrown out).  That got a good laugh.  He was very genial, grateful for being remembered and glad to sign my ticket.

    I think he was working for the Pirates in a fan relations capacity, but it was a real pleasure.

    Pittsburgh is like that.  I really hope they go deep in the postseason.

    Parent

    I'm rooting for them too... (none / 0) (#98)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:11:46 PM EST
    I've heard the new park is gorgeous...with affordable food even!  

    Parent
    Love it...but I have one question re:Pirates (none / 0) (#67)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:10:51 PM EST
    Am I the only one that remembers the "We Are Family" Pirates like it was yesterday? Does not seem like such a long time since a Bucs playoff berth to me!!!

    Spoken as a Cubs fan.....

    Parent

    I remember that Pirates team, ruffian. (none / 0) (#152)
    by caseyOR on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:51:21 PM EST
    Willie Stargel and the lads were a joyous bunch that year.

    On the Cubs front, rumors are flying that Theo Epstein is trying to persuade Joe Girardi to leave the Yankees and manage the Cubs. Talk about Joe's life coming full circle. I don't know if it will happen. The Yankees will have some say in the matter when they meet with Joe's agent. Still, I would love seeing Joe back in the home team dugout at Wrigley.

    Parent

    Attack of the Rice Burners.... (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:47:46 AM EST
    Big news in NYC is these "Hollywood Stuntz" arseholes terrorizing motorists and pedestrians.  

    I can tolerate a lot, but these sh*theads need to play their games on a track, not on busy NYC highways and streets.  I think the poor guy who was beaten and slashed was totally justified in running some of those maniacs over for fear of his and his family's safety.  Serious mob mentality at work when these maniacs get together to ride....they're a buncha bullies imo.  Cut the sh&t and find a track.

    Here We Go... (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:28:44 PM EST
    Mieses, 32, was struck when Lien raced away from the pack after the initial fender bender. He is in critical condition with a crushed spine and two broken legs and may be paralyzed. He has hired a media-savvy lawyer, Gloria Allred.
    LINK

    One of the bullies got himself a top-notch attorney while in critical condition.  WTF ?  

    Parent

    If I'm not mistaken... (5.00 / 1) (#92)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:42:47 PM EST
    that's the guy whose momma has been crying to the papers that her son is the poor innocent victim here.  She probably hired the queen of ambulance chasers.

    Parent
    Ya, I think that's the one. (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:37:56 PM EST
    I read the guy hasn't had a motorcycle nor car driver's license since the early 2000's and, despite that, has continued to drive/ride and has racked up at least a dozen traffic citations while having no license(s). And a bunch of other dumb stuff.

    Parent
    Was talking to my wife about this last night (none / 0) (#62)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:04:53 PM EST
    don't know that I would have behaved any differently if I'm on a highway w/my wife and kids, stopped and surrounded.....

    Also, where's the police in this story? No one had a cell phone?  No one called about a $hitload of bikes on the West Side Highway?  I'm interested to hear the driver's side.  I betcha the police if called told him to get off and drive to the nearest station.  Based on his location was the 34th on 181st street.  Problem is that area is also by the GWB and the Cross Bronx Expressway - a notorious bad traffic area.

    Last point I'd make - I have no issues w/bike riders as long as like you say, they respect the other riders on the road.  Sad thing is, IMO, these type of mob incidents make black and brown folks look bad nationwide, wish people would consider that before being an @ss.

    Parent

    I read the police stopped dozens, (none / 0) (#63)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:23:44 PM EST
    if not hundreds, of other bikers that day.

    Apparently there were dozens of separate groups of bikers all heading to converge on Times Square at the same time. They did this last year too, and caused huge traffic issues, etc.

    The reason for the bike rally is unclear, except it seems for the participants to feel some schadenfreude at effing up a bunch of other people's Sunday...

    Parent

    I've heard... (none / 0) (#65)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:53:17 PM EST
    lots of dimes were dropped...but the NYPD has never had a big presence on the highways, which has always suprised me, considering they have such a heavy presence everywhere else.  Perhaps I should keep my mouth shut;)  

    These crotch rockets are so fast, they know they can outrun the cops.  Half of 'em don't even have tags.  With all this press, the potential police response has me as concerned as the maniac bikers do.  I've had the sh*t scared outta me by both gangs...we might be better off only having to avoid one.

    Parent

    If you're ever caught in this situation: (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:35:01 PM EST
    1. Lock doors, and close windows.

    2. Stay on main highway

    3. Note marker, use cellphone, call 911.

    4. If possible, take pictures.


    Parent
    The Guy Called the Cops (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:02:19 PM EST
    No way is a Range Rover going out drive a group of motorcycles as far as gas goes.  His tire was slashed by a biker at the first altercation, it's why he ended up having to stop.  The cops are the ones who stopped the beating, so they showed up just late.  It's unclear why they didn't arrest the people at the time.

    This, to me, would make a great ad for guns/concealed permits.  When the police fail and a group of hoodlums is going to hurt you and your family...

    Parent

    given a choice (none / 0) (#75)
    by nyjets on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:44:06 PM EST
    I will take the police (who are not a gang like the biker gangs are).

    Parent
    True,,, (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:59:02 PM EST
    they're more dangerous...arrest powers and the color of authority and all.

    Parent
    and at least in theory (none / 0) (#81)
    by nyjets on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:11:10 PM EST
    And the police are governed by laws.
    Do all police officers follow the law. No. Do they sometimes cut their own throats with their stupid blue wall, absolutely.
    But to say that police are more dangerous than biker gangs is crazy

    Parent
    ... about the men of the Los Angeles Police Dept.'s Rampart Division. Of the approximately 70 officers implicated in the Rampart scandal (1997-2001), 58 were the subject of Board of Rights proceedings, which is an evidentiary hearing not unlike a military court martial. Of the 52 BORs that were held, 36 resulted in findings of not guilty, and 16 in findings of guilt. Twelve officers received suspensions, seven officers resigned, five were terminated and two were convicted at criminal trial and sent to prison.

    While those results may seem rather meager, the overall IAD investigation into Rampart uncovered numerous and repeated instances of racketeering, corruption and ties to street gangs, drug trafficking and the gangsta underworld. The criminal subculture within Rampart Division eventually proved to be so pervasive and ingrained that LAPD finally chose to shut down and disband that formerly effective and elite anti-gang section, rather than attempt to reform it from within.

    But then, that's LAPD, where police corruption has been so spectacular at times that it's occasionally been an underlying subplot of Hollywood films, sometimes to great effect.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Thursday laughs (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:58:06 PM EST
    Good one! (none / 0) (#69)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:18:35 PM EST
    Breaking News Story (5.00 / 1) (#76)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:44:27 PM EST
    US Capitol in Washington in lockdown after shots fired

    (Reuters) - The U.S. Capitol was in lockdown on Thursday after gunshots were fired outside the building, injuring several people including a law enforcement officer, a Senate aide and a Capitol police officer said.



    What (none / 0) (#82)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:12:22 PM EST
    i have gleamed from twitter is that some woman was headed for the white house and they chased her to capitol hill and she is now dead apparently. How many of details could be wrong I have no idea

    Parent
    CNN reporting (none / 0) (#85)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:16:03 PM EST
    A car chase started when a car tried to go down Pennsylvania Avenue in front of the WH (there are barricades there and it has been closed to traffic since 1995).  The cops / Secret Service chased the car down Penn to the Capitol area, when the driver got out and shots were fired.

    Apparently a cop (Capitol Hill police, I think) was injured and medi-vaced away.

    Lockdown has been lifted.

    Parent

    Was she (none / 0) (#94)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:44:06 PM EST
    aiming for the white house or is that not known yet?

    Parent
    Tried to crash through the W.H. (none / 0) (#95)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:53:50 PM EST
    gate is what the reports say.

    Parent
    Where was (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:54:35 PM EST
    Michelle Bachman when this happened?

    Parent
    It was a Lexus (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:00:12 PM EST
    and we still do not have the ID of the driver.

    Parent
    Black Lexus Sedan (none / 0) (#86)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:20:22 PM EST
    is apparently the car she drove.  Late Model.  They keep showing a clear view of the car and license plate on t.v., so they will find out about her soon.

    Parent
    CBS Poll (5.00 / 0) (#109)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:19:04 PM EST
    Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act; just 25 percent approve of this action.

    Republicans in Congress receive more of the blame for the shutdown: 44 percent of Americans blame them, while 35 percent put more blame on President Obama and the Democrats in Congress. These views are virtually the same as they were last week before the shutdown, when Americans were asked who they would blame if a shutdown occurred.

    When the government shut down back in November 1995, 51 percent of Americans blamed the Republicans in Congress, while 28 blamed President Bill Clinton.



    LINK

    25% of the nation approves shutting down the government for a legally passed bill that was upheld by the SCOTUS, that is stunning.

    But then again it probably depends on if they asked them about Obamacare or the Affordable Care Act, apparently one is more popular.

    Read my (4.00 / 0) (#114)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:39:30 PM EST
    link above to the democracy corps focus group. You will not be surprised. Pretty much they do not care about that. they are like the confederates going off to fight for slavery. They don't care if it's a lose/lose proposition because they figure they have already lost. Their "way of life" is "gone". It's no longer 1950 and it has dawned on them that it's probably not going to be again but they want to hold the tide and try to stop it anyway they can.

    Parent
    That may be changing (none / 0) (#115)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:41:36 PM EST
    Link

    This week's government shutdown represents a new low in Washington, reinforcing how little gets done and everyone hates each other. And while polls show that Republicans in Congress still get more of the blame, Americans are increasingly pointing the finger at the Oval Office.

    A recent Bloomberg survey found that 40 percent blame the GOP for what's wrong in Washington, while 38 percent blame the president and congressional Democrats. Back in February, Obama had a nine-point edge over Republicans and independents were evenly divided over who was responsible. Now, 42 percent of independents fault with Obama and his allies in Congress, while 34 percent blame Republicans on Capitol Hill.

    If more people think that you're the problem with things not getting done in Washington, it won't be a leap for them to blame you for the shutdown, the longer it goes on.

    But as every poll, it all really depends on so many things.

    Parent

    "Recent" (none / 0) (#139)
    by MKS on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:07:07 PM EST
    poll but it is not dated in the article you link to....

    Parent
    AN AXE LENGTH AWAY, vol. 147 (5.00 / 1) (#179)
    by Dadler on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:45:39 AM EST
    We were (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by lentinel on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:11:55 AM EST
    mentioning spam the other day - and the idiot messages often contained therein.

    This one I got today takes the cake:

    Ive done nothing wrong.reliability. Do I assume that you will cooperate? At the minimum yousat down cross-legged and motioned to me. Sit. We must talk.singing our number?back. What are you playing at bastardacoj? I shouted; Humane torture

    Where do I sign?

    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#208)
    by sj on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:57:02 PM EST
    That's awesome!

    Parent
    Obama administration priorities (1.00 / 0) (#36)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:15:57 AM EST
    Then (5.00 / 3) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:21:53 AM EST
    the GOP needs to bring a clean bill up and vote on it and stop holding the entire country hostage for the pleasure of Ted Cruz and the honey boo boo Republicans. Get cracking and call your representative and tell them to get to work to end the shut down.

    Parent
    Tell Your Party... (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:09:14 AM EST
    ...to quit playing games and it will end.

    Parent
    I'd say the GOP's wingbat wing is rather serious about its mission, not unlike the kamikaze at the Battle of Okinawa. These are not rational people.

    Parent
    Shutdown anomalies and inconsistencies.... (5.00 / 0) (#72)
    by unitron on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:28:18 PM EST
    "The seeming randomness of the U.S. government's first shutdown in 17 years can be explained in part by anomalies in the spending Congress does and doesn't control."

    But of course if you ask the right wing Obama personally decided all of it, especially the deal with the WWII memorial.

    Parent

    Winger priorities (5.00 / 2) (#74)
    by Yman on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:43:21 PM EST
    Tell your winger friends in Congress to pass a CR - problem solved.  Much as you wish it was true, Obama did not close those military commissaries while leaving the Andrews Air Force Base golf course open.  The article clearly points out that it's because the golf course is funded through user fees.

    BTW - Actually, you can "make this stuff up" - particularly when it comes to headlines. Being forced to shop in civilian grocery stores is hardly "foraging".

    Parent

    "Forage"... (none / 0) (#52)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:18:55 AM EST
    The government shut down Winn Dixie too?  LOL

    Parent
    How Irresponsible of Bloomberg (none / 0) (#56)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:44:44 AM EST
    the only place the word was used: the headline.

    Parent
    Republicans (none / 0) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:19:22 AM EST
    are having meltdowns all over the place. This is as bad as it was after the election. I'm guessing those polls that show them taking a beating must be taking their toll.

    An about-to-be infamous example (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:33:50 PM EST
    of the Repub meltdown condition can be seen in the video clip today of a Texas Repub incorrectly, arrogantly, and in a condescending manner trying to bully a young woman park ranger.  It looks as though he saw cameras, so he approached her and stated how bad it must be to stop people from being admitted to federal sites, etc.  He followed that with rhetorical comments in the same vein.  He then told her that she should be ashamed.  Perhaps his fuming got in the way of any memory that he & his colleagues voted to shut down those very sites with their government shutdown.

    It was ugly.  Probably will get uglier ... because when these people (aka Repubs) feel cornered--by their own making, of course--they will scratch, writhe, and denounce anything in their way.  

    Parent

    Dems shouldn't pop ... (none / 0) (#8)
    by Robot Porter on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:01:11 AM EST
    any champagne corks yet.  The polls right now don't tell the tale.

    During the 1995 shutdown, Clinton's poll numbers feel dramatically.  It was only after the situation was resolved and the dust settled that Republicans bore the brunt of the blame in polls.

    We won't know who the winner is on this politically till at least several weeks after it's over.  And since this is all a political stunt, on both sides, that's all that really matters.

    The public are screwed regardless of who wins.

    Parent

    Not popping (none / 0) (#16)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:45:12 AM EST
    champagne corks because you can never trust that Obama won't cave. We've seen it too many times before.

    Parent
    It's the inevitable result of being ... (none / 0) (#111)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:26:32 PM EST
    ... perpetually beholden to an unhinged base of ignorant voters who've long been at odds with the fundamental basics of math, physics, biology, economics, history, common sense and reality -- often simultaneously.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for the plight of GOP congresscritters, and am concerned with it only to the extent that the chaos they've sewn will eventually affect the rest of us.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    rhetoric (none / 0) (#12)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:40:43 AM EST
    Obama:

    During the course of my presidency, I have bent over backwards to work with the Republican party and have purposely kept my rhetoric down. I think I'm pretty well known for being a calm guy. Sometimes people think I'm too calm.
     
    Emphasis added.

    (Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Monday he should not have used the word "enemies" to describe his political opponents...

    "I think it's tempting not to negotiate with hostage-takers..."

    Pretty moderate for a two minute wen search.

    The first (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:44:14 AM EST
    part is true. He has been over backwards moved goal posts and everything to get the GOP to go along with stuff which I think has been a mistake from the beginning. You are never going to get the neo-Confederates to go along with a black guy for one reason and then there are others.

    Parent
    Refusal to negotiate (none / 0) (#38)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:17:58 AM EST
    .

    Refusal to negotiate is "bending over backwards!"  Who knew?

    .

    Parent

    What a crock (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:31:23 AM EST
    18 times in the last few months the House GOP has turned down negotiating the debt limit. Now that they find themselves deep in their self-made hole they want someone to pull them out and give them a shiny toy.

    Again from yesterday:

    "We're not going to be disrespected, We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is." - Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-IN)

    I've got a shiny toy for him. Here Stutzman, have a new shovel.


    Parent

    When the President publicly (5.00 / 0) (#91)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:42:25 PM EST
    pointed out today that Boehner has the ability to bring this thing to a halt almost immediately by a clean bill vote, I thought "Good ... keep stating that fact loud & clear."  The President specifically stated that the bipartisan votes were now there to end the ill-begotten government shutdown ... so, he said, Boehner needs to call for a vote in the open.

    I think that that push needs to be taken up by as many Dems (and others) as possible.  Keep saying: The votes are there ... have an open vote ... why not? ... what are you afraid of Mr. Speaker? ...<again & again & again.>

    Parent

    Except (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:46:02 PM EST
    The president also said things like this today too.

    "If a worker shut down a manufacturing plant until they got what they wanted, they'd be fired.

    Uh, doesn't that hit a little close to what labor unions do when they strike?

    Parent

    Boehner & his comrades (5.00 / 0) (#123)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:19:58 PM EST
    directly caused the shut-down; they have always had the ability to vote a clean bill.  When a Union votes to go on strike, the exercise the rights to do so in accordance with national labor relations law; that action by itself does not shut down the plant because the owner retains the ability to re-order his/her priorities.

    Ironically--since you mention labor--the shut-down position taken by Boehner & his comrades does have a decided, direct effect on at least 800,000 federal employees and many contractors and many, many dependent independent and small businesses by causing the loss of their jobs and/or revenue during the duration.

    I wonder what Boehner is afraid of in this fiasco he engineered?

    Parent

    You Nailed It (none / 0) (#163)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 09:18:03 AM EST
    Yeah, just like a union, they decide to protest some rule on ideological grounds, that don't even effect them.  So they go to strike, continue to work and get paid, and all the folks they designated as non-essential, are sent home without pay.  And the $12,500,000 an hour it costs to strike, is paid by outsiders.

    You fricken nailed it.

    Maybe your strike non-sense should be handled like Reagan handled the air-traffic controllers.  All 'no' votes can pack up their S and go home...  


    Parent

    Since you are too dense to see it (none / 0) (#169)
    by jbindc on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:06:53 AM EST
    (Not surprising, based on other comments you have made), BTW.

    For the president to use this kind of comparison -about workers taking it upon themselves to shut down a plant, just shows how out of touch he is with one of his biggest group of supporters.

    And since I come from a union family that is 3 generations deep, and greatly support the unions, you can go screw yourself, although that might be hard as your head is already occupying that space.

    Parent

    jbindc (none / 0) (#174)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:17:30 AM EST
    That's a very accurate statement.

    Parent
    Really?? (none / 0) (#186)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:08:47 AM EST
    You've personally seen that "space?"

    Parent
    How do you go from (5.00 / 1) (#198)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:04:22 PM EST
    three generations of union membership to Romney love, is what I'd like to know..

    Parent
    Don't bother, (5.00 / 1) (#204)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:13:49 PM EST
    how many others accept the  narcissistic meme, "Nobody helped me!" or, "I pulled myself up by the bootstraps, those people want something for nothing."

    My suggestion? Make more frequent use of the scroll bar.

    Parent

    We have to get something out of this (none / 0) (#146)
    by Jack203 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:14:42 PM EST
    That's what it's about. They want something.  And what do Republicans always want?  Cuts to the lower and middle classes.

    With the budget and debt ceiling aligned, it's a perfect time for an extortion as far as their concerned.  Talk Radio, FoxNews and Drudge are working up the frothing at the mouth tea partiers into a frenzy.  This is the revenge they've wanted on Obama for the last six years.

    As much as I don't like it, I do think Obama is going to have to give in.  As long as the nutcases do not ask for too much.  Going over the debt ceiling, losing the full faith and credit of the US on the world stage and the dollar as the world currency is something that can't be lost if we want to remain a superpower.

    So the adults (Obama) may have to give something to the petulant child(Congress) with nothing in return except a promise to not destroy the country.

    Parent

    Quit Getting Your... (5.00 / 2) (#61)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:03:42 PM EST
    ...delicate sensibilities all ruffled. "Refusal to Negotiate" is one of the qualities R's find most admirable at the polls, now when it's being used by the opposing party the entire GOP needs a giant fainting couch.  

    With the added bonus of a brand new respect and admiration for the Federal Government and a extraordinary desire to see it back to operating normally.  Never mind everything ever said about in the past decade, especially the agencies they want to totally erase, now they can't trip over themselves fast enough to find a camera so they can declare their love of the Fed.

    Truly a pathetic show, but its interesting to see the nitwits buying into their Emmy deserving performances.  Fear not nitwits, next month the debt ceiling will surely have their agent provocateurs back to hating the Federal Government.

    Parent

    He refused to negotiate (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:22:43 AM EST
    with you this time but wasn't the tea party crowing that they got 98% of what they wanted back in 2010? Kind of under cuts your complete argument and backs up mine.

    Parent
    "Negotiation" (none / 0) (#143)
    by Jack203 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 07:51:12 PM EST
    How kind of the Republicans to make the offer of not detonating themselves in a crowded room as long as the Democrats make concessions.

    It's not a negotiation. It's an extortion.

    If you really want to negotiate.   I'm all ears.  Let's start with having the top 1%, who have gained a higher percentage of the total wealth in this country over the last twenty years, pay more.  Then and only then will Democrats offer to cut social spending on the lower and middle classes.

    Offering to not sabotage this country is not an offer.  It's you guys being the scumbag rightwing jackal morons that you are.

    Parent

    Past twenty (none / 0) (#157)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 06:26:22 AM EST
    .

    That sounds like a dodge to avoid talking about the past five years.  Obama is the king of crony capitalism and his cronies have done quite well, thank you.

    .

    Parent

    Mel Brooks summed up neo-Confederates ... (none / 0) (#113)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:34:49 PM EST
    ... in only 27 seconds.

    Parent
    Only Need to Turn on a News Channel.. (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:48:52 AM EST
    ...for one minute to see a republican using far more disparaging language.  Exhibit A, Cruz and the Nazi references, which even McCain objected.

    Your point seems to be he said he would play nice and now he's not, but never mind your own party straight up playing as dirty as it gets.  Because, I assume, they never said they wouldn't.

    Spar us on who uses the inappropriate/inflammatory rhetoric, if elections were decided by it, R's would never lose an election.

    Parent

    Uh Scott, (none / 0) (#154)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:51:55 AM EST
     you better get out of that glass house..

    Link

    Link

    And more...

    "Palin's newly notorious Paul Revere remarks came up for discussion and Titus had this to say: "You know what, man? I am going to literally -- if she gets elected president, I am going to hang out on the grassy knoll all the time, just loaded and ready -- because you know what? It's for my country. It's for my country. If I got to sacrifice myself, it's for my country."

    Link

    "I attended the convention and remember the terrorist acts that were carried out by anti-Republican protesters very well. They threw bricks through the windows of buses, sending elderly convention delegates to the hospital. They dropped bags of sand off highway overpasses onto vehicles below. Fortunately, no one was killed.

    These were anti-Bush and anti-Republican protesters. Is it a stretch to think that some of them, at least, may have been inspired by over-the-top, hateful attacks on the Bush administration by Democratic Congressmen, DNC Chairman Howard Dean, Michael Moore, who was a guest of honor at the Democrats' own convention, various show business personalities, and many other leading liberal figures? I don't think so. We haven't seen that sort of hate campaign since the Democrats went after Abraham Lincoln. It seems unlikely that none of the "protesters" who tried to commit murder were inspired by those liberal voices."

    Link

    "DAN SAVAGE, SEX ADVICE COLUMNIST: Unfortunately not exactly like it. I wish they were all F(*&^^ dead! Wow! Savage on national television said he wished all Republicans were dead. This was about twenty minutes before he said he wanted to have hate sex with Rick Santorum

    Link

    And I will stop with this little threat of rape:

    'SAVAGE: Just so we get, just so you don't get charges of sexism, because only Michele Bachmann was involved, I sometimes think about f--king the s--t out of Rick Santorum.

    [Laughter and applause]

    SAVAGE: Because I think...

    MARON: I'm with you.

    SAVAGE: ...he needs it. So, it's not, it's not just women we're talking about f--king. Like, let's bone that Santorum boy.

    MARON: Alright. Let's video it.

    SAVAGE: I'm up for whipping up some santorum in Santorum"

    Link

    I could go on but I think my point is made.

    Parent

    Republican nuts are elected (none / 0) (#155)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:54:36 AM EST
    to public office; Democratic nuts are not.

    That is the difference.

    You guys elevate the crazy to elected office.....

    Parent

    All you folks can do is deny deny (none / 0) (#167)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:00:55 AM EST
    How about some examples of Right Wingers doing things like I have shown??

    Parent
    Jim, you miss the point (none / 0) (#188)
    by MKS on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:12:15 AM EST
    In a country of over 300 million people, if you search long and hard enough, you will find examples of all kinds of people.

    You do not respond to my point about elected officials.   The worst offenders among Republicans are their elected officials....

    And their unelected leaders in Talk Radio....

    There may be some really hateful behavior by Democratic officials but not nearly as much as among Republican officials....

    Parent

    You throwing in with (none / 0) (#197)
    by jondee on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:01:58 PM EST
    that loathsome Purple Bandaid crowd in '04..

    What more egregious example could anyone need?

    You remember that don't you, Jim? The slime is still on you.

    Parent

    Why bother? (none / 0) (#203)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 12:13:38 PM EST
    You'll just deny reality.  OTOH - It's extremely easy to find examples of rightwing violence (actual, documented violence, not fairy tales), soooo ...:

     -- July 2008: Jim David Adkisson - killing two churchgoers and wounding four others.

    -- October 2008: Daniel Cowart and Paul Schlesselman arrested in a plot to murder dozens of African-Americans, culminating in the assassination of President Obama.

    -- December 2008: "Patriot" movement radicals Bruce and Joshua Turnidge, who wanted "to attack the political infrastructure" -- kill two police officers with a bomb.

    -- December 2008: James Cummings, agitated by the election of Obama, building a "dirty bomb" in his basement.

    -- January 2009: Keith Luke - raping and wounding a black woman and killing her sister, then killing a homeless man before being captured by police as he is en route to a Jewish community center.

    -- February 2009: A Marine named Kody Brittingham is arrested and charged with plotting to assassinate President Obama. Brittingham also collected white-supremacist material.

    -- April 2009: Richard Poplawski, believing President Obama intended to take away the guns of white citizens like himself, kills 3 police officers.

    -- April 2009: Joshua Cartwright, similarly fearful of Obama's purported gun-grabbing plans, kills two deputies.

    -- May 2009: Scott Roeder walks into a church in Wichita, Kansas, and assassinates abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

    -- June 2009: A Holocaust denier and right-wing tax protester James Von Brunn opens fire at the Holocaust Museum, killing a security guard.

    -- March 2010: Seven militiamen arrested for plotting to assassinate local police officers with the intent of sparking a new civil war.

    -- March 2010: A "sovereign citizen" from Georgia is arrested in Tennessee and charged with plotting the violent takeover of a local county courthouse.

    -- May 2010: A still-unidentified white man walks into a Jacksonville, Fla., mosque and sets it afire, simultaneously setting off a pipe bomb.

    -- May 2010: Two "sovereign citizens" named Jerry and Joe Kane gun down two police officers who pull them over for a traffic violation, and then wound two more officers in a shootout in which both of them are eventually killed.

    -- July 2010: Byron Williams - attempting to attack the offices of the Tides Foundation and the ACLU, shooutout with officers wounding two.

    -- September 2010: Justin Carl Moose arrested for plotting to blow up an abortion clinic.

    You'll notice that these examples involve more than swatting away a cell phone being shoved in your face, or a comedian making a joke.  Plus, it's only over a 2 year period.

    There's much more winger violence out there, Jim.

    Parent

    "Glass houses" - heh (none / 0) (#158)
    by Yman on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 07:52:35 AM EST
    Right, Jim.  Because a few pissed-off people swatting cameras out of their faces or making insults, or comedians making jokes are the equivalent of Republican leaders/elected officials.

    Heh.

    Not to mention the fact that - as usual - most of your stories are simply that ... stories or fairy tales that have been thoroughly discredited as complete BS.  Your Powerline post with the fairy tales of liberal activists trying to murder people by hitting their buses with sandbags and attacking busloads of Cub Scouts and elderly people by throwing bricks through the windows is one of my favorites.  Of course, in reality there isn't a single piece of evidence to corroborate these wild accusations by wingnut bloggers.  Even the winger blogger himself acknowledges that "While the attack on the Scouts' bus was reported to me by a reliable source, I'm not sure it is correct."  Not to mention the fact that the guy who threw a sandbag onto the highway was arrested and sentenced to 90 days in jail.  The part about him "hitting buses" with sandbags and bricks?  Turns out it was a complete fabrication.

    You really need some new material, Jim.  Because if that's the best you can do, you're really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    But hey - now that your other favorite lie has been shown to be a complete fabrication (Kenneth Gladney), you go with what you got, right?

    Parent

    Jim... (none / 0) (#164)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 09:29:41 AM EST
    ...nice to see that can still manage to crawl out of your hole.

    Did you really write this ?

    A little later, a busload of Cub Scouts were en route to the convention, where they were to present the colors to open the convention. A group of protesters-liberals, Obama supporters, or whatever-blocked the road, surrounded the bus, and attacked it, rocking the bus back and forth, denting and scratching the sides, and generally terrifying the children trapped inside.

    Yeah, sorry you were saying something about glass houses ?

    Parent

    He started writing, "Brownies," but (none / 0) (#183)
    by NYShooter on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:05:36 AM EST
    he figured that would be "over the line."

    Even for him.

    Parent

    Republican Governor (none / 0) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:47:49 AM EST
    "That is a criminal act, from my perspective, to put that type of burden on them to mortgage their future like that. America cannot stand that," added Gov. Perry, who could not name what law or statute was actually being violated.
    LINK

    Yeah, legally passed legislation that was upheld by the SCOTUS is in Perry's eyes a criminal act.

    Yeah, Obama is clearly over the top in his rhetoric, her should definitely bow down to his always respectful political opponents.

    WTF is the GOP going to do after the millions of people who visited the exchanges realize they are full of S, and then they realize, the GOP shutdown the government over it.

    Seems to me if it's nearly criminal or socialism at it's finest, they should let the chips fall were they may, if it's as bad as they keep telling us, it can only hurt democrats...

    Their belief in the market doesn't seem to ever apply to things they don't like.

    Parent

    Truly (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:45:50 PM EST
    after having seen him in action, there are not too many that are dumber than he is.

    Parent
    What's Really Sad... (none / 0) (#172)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:15:12 AM EST
    ...is he was a D until 1989.  How does one go from a party to another and then totally off the rails.

    The good news is he has announced he won't be seeking reelection in 2016, which probably means we will see him again in the primaries.

    Parent

    Anybody (none / 0) (#178)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:40:08 AM EST
    who goes into the GOP these days has to be crazy to survive. Look at the base you're dealing with for one.

    Parent
    A deal with the devil.. (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:58:03 AM EST
    I looked up libertarian right patron saint Murray Rothbard the other day, and in three or four links I was at a full-blown white supremacist site..

    Rothbard to The Bell Curve to The Pioneer Fund to Wickliffe Draper..

    Parent

    Remember, after you move your pile of (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:52:11 AM EST
    money into the storage unit - spray it for silverfish!

    I had a Packing app that I used for traveling for a while - it is basically a list maker, with the normal things you need on a trip pre-filled in. Stopped using it after the first couple of times. I'm guessing the moving apps are similar - just a big to-do list. They are of limited use unless they come with burly helpers.

    You seem to have been doing my only moving tip - use the opportunity to purge all the old junk. The four weeks before I moved I had mountains of trash at the kerb every week.

    Other tip - if you want to paint and are allowed to paint the new place, do it before you move in.

    Doesn't the marijuana smell... (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by unitron on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:16:38 PM EST
    ...on the money keep the bugs away?

    : - )


    Parent

    Still very early (none / 0) (#24)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 09:26:17 AM EST
    but dumb headline of the day may have already been won by the Huffington Post:

    "Grand Canyon Closed"

    How'd they pull that off? (5.00 / 1) (#53)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 11:24:23 AM EST
    Berlin Wall on both sides?  Electric Fence?  Giant tarp?  Whichever...that's impressive engineering, and so fast! ;)

    Parent
    Flip of the Shutdown Master Switch (none / 0) (#70)
    by CoralGables on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:18:59 PM EST
    Slowly closes a canyon into a small crevice.

    Parent
    Just a switch? (none / 0) (#77)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 01:44:32 PM EST
    My imagination was kinda hoping for an order to "Fire the Shutdown Lazer!" to fill the Canyon with rubble.

    Parent
    Once I flew over the (none / 0) (#101)
    by fishcamp on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:30:20 PM EST
    Grand Canyon in a small Cessna 180 very close to the ground until getting to the edge and it was quite a thrill.  That canyon is truly enormous.  They could never close it.  If it weren't so rainy down here I would run over to the boundary of the Everglades National Park to see what's up.  Both Parks seem impossible to close if you ask me.

    Parent
    National Yo-Yo Contest this weekend (none / 0) (#46)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:51:42 AM EST
    If you've never heard of an off-string yo-yo... (none / 0) (#47)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 10:54:34 AM EST
    Now that guy is good... (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by fishcamp on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:46:17 PM EST
    Some of my fondest memories of grade school in Portland were the Japanese yo-yo guys that would come around to the candy store across the street from school and hand carve palm trees and beach scenes onto our wooden Duncan yo-yo's.  I still have my yo- yo's.  Not sure where the apostrophe goes on yo- yo's Ann. (-:

    Parent
    Our old Duncans are dinosaurs now (none / 0) (#105)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:56:23 PM EST
    Forget the freakish off-string stuff, now they all have bearings (you just toss them down and they sleep forever) and are made of alloys and cost a hundred bucks. Seriously, my kid has probably traded his way into almost a thousand bucks worth of yo yo's in his bag. He and his buddy will haul their collections out to Chico to do some trading or buying, since that's the real scene at Nationals. Well, that and the two chicks who show up to compete. They get mobbed by geeks.  

    Parent
    And I love the dude's white glove (none / 0) (#106)
    by Dadler on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:58:36 PM EST
    Part mime, part Mickey Mouse, part Michael Jackson.

    Parent
    ACA v Obamacare (none / 0) (#64)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 12:51:42 PM EST
    Of those who ended up featured in an appallingly hilarious clip on Kimmel's show, not a single one knew that Obamacare and the Affordable Care Act are one and the same thing. All but one of the interviewees expressed dislike for Obamacare and gave a variety of reasons for hating it -- it is socialist, it has holes in it, it forces everyone to buy into it, it is anti-American and, I'm not making this up -- it will lead to gun prohibition. They like the Affordable Care Act, however, because it is, well, affordable.

    LATimes

    The TL Kaffee Klatch Keyboard Kommandos version:

    We know the difference between ACA and Obamacare but hate them both because we hate Obama.

    This is not a "Bash Obama" (5.00 / 1) (#83)
    by NYShooter on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:15:28 PM EST
    comment, simply an affirmation of the complaint many of us have expressed regarding the Democratic Party's incompetence in selling their agenda to the American Public.

    The fact that a majority, or, at least a large plurality, of the public doesn't know that the two monikers describe the same thing, years after its adoption, speaks for itself.

    Parent

    Speaks for itself (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:47:52 PM EST
    too many of us don't pay attention?  reading comprehension is not the strong suit of too many in our country?  average reading levels are notoriously low?

    segue: I tried to go to a reputable gov't site to get US reading levels and got this:

    Due to a lapse of appropriations and the partial shutdown of the Federal Government, the systems that host nces.ed.gov have been shut down. Services will be restored as soon as a continuing resolution to provide funding has been enacted.

    The administration has taken ownership of an obvious jab at the legislation and taken the potency as a derogatory term away from detractors.  All anyone had to do was either read a newspaper or watch the news 1 or 2 times a week in the last 3 years to know they are the same.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:54:54 PM EST
    If someone had read a paper or watched the news in the last 3 years, they would have heard about the politics of the bill, not the actual, you know, details and how those details pertain to each individual situation.  (Goodness knows how hard it was for me to get information on my situation - everyone talked about "A 25 year old healthy male / an individual making less than $43,000 / a family of four."  None of those situations apply to me.)

    And the problems they've been having aren't because the plan is "too popular" (no matter what the WH says) - it's because people have been starved for actual information and are trying to find out what's up and what they have to do.

    Parent

    You appear to be ignoring the fact (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:30:04 PM EST
    that on a daily basis there has been a great deal of conflicting and misleading information in the newspapers and on the news about this legislation with both Rs and Ds referring to it as Obamacare rather than the Affordable Care Act.

    It was sold as a product that would help "poor" working folks get health care. It was not a product to be sold to insurance executives with graduate degrees or only those with fantastic reading compensation skills.

    Parent

    The original comment was regarding (none / 0) (#130)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:51:23 PM EST
    the name not the details, no? To that point I think my point holds true.


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    I disagree (none / 0) (#134)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:16:42 PM EST
    It has been called Obamacare by everyone, including Obama and the Dems, for a couple of years now. When not using Obamacare, ACA is used instead of using the actual name of the legislation, The Affordable Care Act. The constant ongoing repetition completely eliminated the connection for many and that is why the Republicans implemented this technique to begin with.  

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    Hilarious (none / 0) (#96)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:08:18 PM EST
    Obama's fault that the public believes that Obamacare is some kind of Socialist plot to bring down America while the Affordable Care Act is just simply affordable health care...  

    Yes it is all Obama's fault, you are not a hater.

    hhahaha


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    My primary complaint (none / 0) (#108)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:59:31 PM EST
    about the roll-out of the ACA/Obamacare has been that it presumed too much throughout ... it would obviously have been better to have developed bold font, readable, and omnipresent (via all communication avenues) summaries.  That, of course, was then, this is now.  

    When a friend & I talked the other day about what-seems-to-be a non-aggressive communication campaign, all of a sudden she asked "Doesn't the person <potential insured> have any responsibility to find out anything anymore?"  It IS an aspect, I fear.  While the implication should not negate, in any way, that those charged with PR did not seem to go at it 100% until recently, the aspect of individual responsibility in representative government is right there in many areas ... if only as a variation of that well-known tendency to find a "they" primarily at fault.

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    At last count the ACA legislation (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:26:14 PM EST
    along with accompanying regulations is approximately 170,000 pages long.

    It has been a work in progress, and progress, and progress ......since it was first signed into law. Many of the regulations, exceptions, delays etc. were not finalized until just recently and many of the delays and exceptions were intentionally not well publicized.

    When the experts and those whom have been following this legislation from its inception can't keep track of all the ins and outs, I'm not sure how anyone can expect the average person, let alone those with limited education, to know what the h&ll is involved in this insurance legislation.  

    Parent

    Excellent point, MO Blue (none / 0) (#121)
    by christinep on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:11:07 PM EST
    And, reading what you wrote, Mark Twain kept popping into my head ... Mr. Twain and his quip wherein he asked for understanding that his letter to a friend was too long and that it would have been shorter had he had more time.  

    The trend for longer & many times longer laws, briefs, pleadings does have a suffocating tendency.  My mentor, a longtime US Court of Appeals Judge and now deceased, once mentioned that he felt a bit disappointed in himself the first time one of his opinions exceeded ten pages.

    The quandary resulting from trying to cover the broad and the specific of a country's medical system/infrastructure is not surprising in itself.  IMO, the move to do it and the steps taken in the process are worthwhile because the formidable challenge identified for at least eighty years before the ACA was never going to get any easier...we would only go back & forth with every massaged argument we could think of with nothing to show for it.  Now, we have a structure for the process, the regs to deine it, and significant insurance reform.  Changes will need to be made, as with any fundamental overhaul, and that makes sense.  

    Even as I applaud the reality of the ACA/Obamacare, I still would have preferred that a more aggressive communication effort had been evident earlier in terms of distillation of the relevant "in a nutshell" info for the consumer.  OTOH, maybe it was a Goldilocks situation -- too early when no one would pay attention or too late when people would say they didn't have time to learn about it or the sought-after "just right."

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    IMO they left too many details until the (none / 0) (#133)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 06:10:18 PM EST
    last minute. They couldn't give the relevant "in a nutshell" info to the consumer because they didn't have a firm handle on it themselves. I've been involved in several start up projects in the past and there will always be glitches but they had 3 years to round some of these things out and they didn't. And accepting the excuse from the insurance industry that they couldn't get their systems fixed in the 3 year window to handle the "limit on out pocket expenses" was inexcusable.

    I also think it was a big mistake for the Dems to adopt the Republican Talking Point of Obamacare. IMO they needed to continue to call it the Affordable Care Act and correct any media person who called it anything else. Something like a repetition of "Oh are you referring to the Affordable Care Act?" They should have even avoided using ACA. Repetition of Affordable Care Act was needed over and over again and the Dem's focus groups or whatever they use now should have identified this before they were dumb enough to provide a giveaway to the Republicans.

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    I Totally Agree... (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:08:43 AM EST
    ...about calling ti Obamacare.  Once he is gone, they will still have his name on it to rally the votes should the D's lose the Senate and the WH.  And god forbid Obama gets wrapped up in a real scandal, who is going to want Nixoncare.

    I can tell you this, when it comes to the entire insurance/health care area, I am lost beyond belief.  I have a friend who tells me what I should get here at work, been doing it since I started here.

    I am a numbers guy, it's why my grammar and spelling are horrific, my brain operates like a computer, a bunch of 'if then' statements.  So when it comes to areas that are more memorization oriented, I seriously stumble.

    Medical insurance makes no sense, everything about is completely opposite of logic and intuition.  I understand the politics of it, but I won't even attempt the understand the nuts and bolts of it.  I can't even do that currently and that involves 3 chioces.

    My point, the fact that the admin hasn't even attempted to sell their product is mind boggling.  They should have had a FAQ set-up, and if they did, they should have been pimping it from day 1.  A basic page with the things everyone needs to know, dissemination the knowns and unknowns.  They should have also created an email list, to provide weekly/monthly updates to anyone interested and broadcasting this stuff.  They should have made it their mission to get as many people on the email list as same number of people w/o insurance.

    This is how people get their information, in chunks and pieces.  Not just one day and bam, here it is, good luck.  Or relying on the press because they mention it here and there, but with no real information and occasionally, incorrect information.

    Let's not forget, in 2010 and the 2012, the D's couldn't run way from ACA fast enough and now they are all acting like it's not their fault people are ill-informed.  With Obama almost miffed that people are in completely uninformed without any responsibility as to how that happened.

    I am informed, I read a lot, tons of news and I am always searching for things that I don't know about.  I am extremely curious person.  But beyond the politics and the bits and pieces I have picked up here, I am completely void of the actual nit and gritty of it.

    A friend called me like a month ago asking about Drop Box.  I said go to the site and watch the 3 videos and that is all you need.  She keep at it, asking questions and I said, watch the videos and then call me.  I got an email like an hour later with a link to a bunch of her pictures with a note saying something like 'This Drop Box thing is awesome'.

    Same with Google and a host of other internet things I use, they provide basic easy to understand videos that enable people to want and use their product.  Not every single option, but the basics to get people interested and able to navigate without overwhelming them.

    If ACA was a product and the D's were a company, they would be bankrupt sitting a product that millions of people want but because they have no sense in the most import aspect of any product, marketing.  

    The R's are marketing how bad it sucks, and they aren't doing a bad job of it, even have the D's using their favorite slur, Obamacare.

    Christ, find some FDR or Clinton footage and take notes on how to market a government service people want, without talking down to them.  And for the love of god, don't run awauy from it at election time, own it.

    It's good to see Obama out their pushing it, but GD a couple years too late and only after a government shutdown. I suspect it's related more to his legacy than to actually giving a damn about how it will effect millions of people.


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    Not Twain (none / 0) (#148)
    by squeaky on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 08:59:17 PM EST
    More than likely the quote is not Twain:

    The first known instance in the English language was a sentence translated from a text written by the French mathematician and philosopher Blaise Pascal. The French statement appeared in a letter in a collection called "Lettres Provinciales" in the year 1657

    Je n'ai fait celle-ci plus longue que parce que je n'ai pas eu le loisir de la faire plus courte.

    Translated 1658:

    I have made this longer than usual because I have not had time to make it shorter.


    Parent
    That's true (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 04:34:25 PM EST
    But in my case, for instance, CareFirst Blue Cross only sent me a message this past August that my plan was no longer being offered, and gave me no further information.  It wasn't until last weekend when I received a letter that outlined the different plans that were being offered, and even then, it didn't list prices, but directed me to the website, and even then I couldn't see the plans / prices that were going to be ACA -compliant until October 1st.

    And I have been following this story for years.  I can't imagine how someone can "be responsible" to find out more information when all we've been told is "you'll find out when you find out."

    Parent

    That doesn't even take into account (5.00 / 2) (#120)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:09:36 PM EST
    all the misinformation that has been on the TV and in the newspapers.

    I would be willing to bet that the Congresscritters who were involved from day one with this legislation could not provide an accurate detailed account of how this works in its current configuration. I would also guess that more than one of them would provide erroneous information based on what they understood was contained in the program at one time during the process but was changed sometime afterwards.
     

    Parent

    Awww..I hope you and Tracy will be (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 05:37:51 PM EST
    very happy together; you're a little late to that party, champ.

    Parent
    Give you one back for Keyboard Kommandos (none / 0) (#87)
    by vicndabx on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 02:22:17 PM EST
    that $hit's funny also.

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    According to Democracy Corps (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 03, 2013 at 03:55:00 PM EST
    every bad thing you ever thought about the teavangelicals is true. link

    Possessed by the devil, obviously. Lol. (none / 0) (#156)
    by Edger on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 04:12:54 AM EST
    Punk band shoots porno on Westboro Baptist Church front lawn
    Current law doesn't allow families of dead soldiers to beat Westboro Baptist members to death with their own arms while they protest funerals, which is really a shame, but some enterprising members of society have found other avenues of reprisal. Following up on a group of satanists performing a gay ritual on Fred Phelps' mom's grave back in July, a "ridiculously sleazy" punk band from Sacramento has released a porn video shot on the Westboro Baptist Church lawn.
    Topeka, KS - It was a nice sunny day just before noon in the small but well known city of Topeka when punk rock band, Get Shot! from California arrived at the Westboro Baptist Church to film their bass player, Laura Lush masturbat[ing] on their front lawn, completely naked.
    I imagine Fred Phelps will probably want to kill these people in the name of Jeezus Keerist!

    Right After... (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 11:35:06 AM EST
    ...him and the lotion have a little alone time.

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    Great news everybody! (none / 0) (#177)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:29:02 AM EST
    The world's first trillionaire offers to pay off 4 trillion of the US National Debt.  Woo Hoo!

    Oops. Never mind, his bank is welching.

    pfft... (none / 0) (#180)
    by Dadler on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:46:47 AM EST
    ...I'm shooting for quadrillionaire status. My goal is to own the entire earth, plus at least a minority stake in the moon.

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    I'm rooting for ya... (none / 0) (#182)
    by kdog on Fri Oct 04, 2013 at 10:56:19 AM EST
    the Dadler I know would be a kind and benevolent overlord of the milky way...if anybody could keep a quadrillion from going to their head, it's you holmes! ;)

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