home

Thursday Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 12:44:48 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

Busy day. Here's an open thread, all topics welcome.

< Supreme Court Limits Use of Dog Sniffs During Traffic Stops | The Media's "Clinton Rules" >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    Thursday Open Thread | 190 comments (190 topical)
    Walker (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 01:44:11 PM EST
    may have been dumped by the Koch Brothers. link

    Yes, he may have (none / 0) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 04:38:45 PM EST
    decided to cast his lot with Marco R--his Poland Springs requirements need the Koch Brothers and his Fanjul sugar daddies.

    Parent
    Oops (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:59:00 PM EST
    (Damn)

    http://tinyurl.com/k76h9vk

    Advice General Petraeus could have used, (none / 0) (#67)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:06:58 AM EST
    from Pink.

    Parent
    Governor Bobby Jindal, in a NYT op ed, (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 04:35:03 PM EST
    says: "I'm holding firm against gay marriage."   No cake, no pizza. no flowers, no photography. No nothing.   And, he is upset that "left wing activists," left wing ideologues," "liberals," "radical liberals," (used at different times) have had their way with large corporations (cf. Indiana, Arkansas), to bully elected officials into backing away from strong protections for religious liberty.

    But Jindal is not having it: for any corporation contemplating bullying Louisiana, "save your breath."  His Marriage and Conscience Act is on the way to exorcise the gay devils.  After all, he claims,  many Americans, as do clergy (who he acknowledges would never be required to perform a service to gay couples) feel just as called to live their faith through their business.

    Without a nod to inconsistency, Jindal preaches, in the midst of his stridency, that "a pluralistic and diverse society like ours can exist only if we all tolerate people who disagree with us."  

    Bobby calls for a grand bargain between conservatives and corporations.  Each will scratch each others back  (but only,the back of one man and the back of one woman) so as to fight off the radical liberals who want to have their wedding cake and eat it too,  And, Jindal sets himself apart from others in the clown car who say they would go to a gay wedding, unless it is a cash bar.

    You gotta way with words (none / 0) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 05:01:31 PM EST
    corporatons are already freaking about this.  EA (Electronic Arts) Sports - a huge game company with a primarily young work force who are not going to be OK with this are among the ones speaking out the loudest.

    Apparently they recently set up shop there after being very actively wooed by Saint Bobby.  In an entirely platonic way of course.

    Parent

    About a week ago (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 05:20:34 PM EST
    It didn't mention Louisiana religious freedom bill (HB 707) by name, but EA Sports released a statement Friday (April 17) indicating that the video game developer would oppose any legislation perceived to be discriminatory.

    "At EA, we strongly support an accepting, diverse and inclusive community inside our company, our games and beyond.  As an employer we stand against any bill, law or practice that would allow for discrimination on any grounds," the company said in a post on its website entitled "Our Culture."

    EA has a strong connection to Baton Rouge and LSU in particular. Its Electronic Arts North American Testing Centre is located at the university. Gov. Bobby Jindal lured EA to Louisiana back in 2008 with the state's digital media tax credit program.



    Parent
    And IBM (none / 0) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 05:25:55 PM EST
    IBM Senior State Executive James M. Driesse wrote a letter to Jindal expressing "strong opposition" to Johnson's Marriage and Conscience Act. Driesse warned that "a bill that legally protects discrimination based on same-sex marriage status will create a hostile environment for our current and prospective employees, and is antithetical to our company's values. IBM will find it much harder to attract talent to Louisiana if this bill is passed and enacted into law."

    This is an argument similar to what other top tech and business leaders made against the Indiana and Arkansas bills: that anti-gay legislation would effectively turn away talented employees from working in the state.

    IBM issued a similar warning to state lawmakers in North Carolina over a religious freedom bill there. But North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory (R) has expressed reservations about signing the bill.



    Parent
    Ironically (none / 0) (#26)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 05:54:53 PM EST
    you can chalk up the rapid advance of LGBT rights as a win for free market ideology.

    Parent
    Indeed (none / 0) (#31)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 06:39:02 PM EST
    a quote from St Bobbys NYTimes OpEd-

    In Indiana and Arkansas, large corporations recently joined left-wing activists to bully elected officials into backing away from strong protections for religious liberty. It was disappointing to see conservative leaders so hastily retreat on legislation that would simply allow for an individual or business to claim a right to free exercise of religion in a court of law.



    Parent
    Interesting twist to Indiana culture (none / 0) (#121)
    by Palli on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 02:01:47 PM EST
    This silly reaction came because the state accepts same sex marriage.
    Friends in Indiana, happily paired for more than 2 decades and not caring to "officially" marry, were sent a letter from their health insurance company. It said one partner was losing the coverage because the state now allows same sex marriage and the same sex partner coverage can no longer be covered. So they had to get "officially" get married.

    Parent
    more than FMideology (none / 0) (#120)
    by Palli on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 01:55:03 PM EST
    Free Market consumerism.  

    Parent
    You should (none / 0) (#22)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 05:14:47 PM EST
    read what comes up on Facebook. LSU is about to go under. There's a 1.6 billion budget deficit. The guy has been a freaking disaster for the entire state and yet he just can't quit. I guess if your approval rating is 27% something like this can't hurt.

    Parent
    To clarify, the State of Louisiana ... (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 05:51:23 PM EST
    ... is facing a $1.6 billion budget shortfall, and not LSU specifically. That said, university administrators have already offered some dire budget scenarios for the institution, which includes a contingency plan for "academic bankruptcy," with significant cuts of up to 35% across the board -- except, of course, for football. You cut Coach Les Miles' $4.3 million salary and the Bayou Bengals' football budget, why, you might just as well slit your own throat.

    Parent
    Jindal's (none / 0) (#33)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 07:06:14 PM EST
    "Marriage and Conscious Act,"  or his "save my bacon by changing the subject act."

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 07:21:48 PM EST
    just watching Ted Cruz screech on the Senate floor about Loretta Lynch.

    The republicans are so screwed.

    Parent

    You aren't kidding. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 08:10:30 PM EST
    I really just expected the nomination to go through quietly but there is an insurrection over her going through. Apparently having here as AG is the end of the world. Who knew? To me she just seemed like a decent candidate with good experience. Darn.

    Parent
    This guy's a trip... (none / 0) (#112)
    by kdog on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:48:41 AM EST
    "a pluralistic and diverse society like ours can exist only if we all tolerate people who disagree with us"

    I agree...so when somebody you disagree with wants to buy a wedding cake from you, you tolerate them and sell them a wedding cake.  Glad that's settled Bobby!

    Parent

    It's official. (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 06:34:48 PM EST
    Comcast is officially abandoning its pursuit of Time Warner.

    RIP, Mary Doyle Keefe (1923-2015). (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 08:16:06 PM EST
    While many of us may not recognize her name, we might surely remember having seen her before. Ms. Keefe was better known to millions of Americans across the country during the Second World War as her iconic alter ego, "Rosie the Riveter," thanks to Norman Rockwell and The Saturday Evening Post. Her image was subsequently invoked on countless occasions during that conflict to sell war bonds. She died this week in Connecticut at age 92.

    My parents met (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by Repack Rider on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:48:41 PM EST
    ...while both were working at the Liberty shipyard in Sausalito in 1943.  My mother will be 95 in a week.

    "Rosie" is honored with a monument at the site of the Richmond Liberty shipyard, just across the bay.  

    Parent

    I'd heard about Liberty Ships, and the speed (none / 0) (#65)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 05:41:25 AM EST
    of their assembly, but I hadn't heard this:

    The Marinship Shipyards [Sausalito] were the site of incidents that provided a key early milestone in the Civil rights movement.[4] In 1944 in the case of James v. Marinship the California Supreme Court held that African Americans could not be excluded from jobs based on their race, even if the employer took no discriminatory actions. In the case of Joseph James, on whose behalf the suit was brought, the local Boilermakers Union excluded Blacks from membership and had a "closed shop" contract, forbidding the shipbuilder from employing anyone who was not a member of the union. African American workers could join an auxiliary of the union, which offered access to fewer jobs at lower pay. Future US Supreme Court justice Thurgood Marshall successfully argued the case, winning a ruling that the union be required to offer equal membership to African Americans. The Court extended the ruling to apply explicitly to all unions and all workers in California.


    Parent
    The Black population of Marin County (none / 0) (#104)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:21:46 AM EST
    ...arrived as laborers brought from the South to work at the shipyards.  Removed from their previous society and mostly uneducated, after the war de facto segregation kept them confined for several generations to "Marin city," an unincorporated enclave of poverty and crime in the heart of suburbia.

    Almost all the Black HS students of my generation went to one high school, mine.  I have Black friends of 50 years plus.

    My mother was enraged at the shoddy treatment given these people for a couple of generations after their usefulness was over.

    Parent

    Speaking of Liberty Ships, (none / 0) (#138)
    by fishcamp on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:22:08 PM EST
    my dad rode the USS Celilo through the Panama Canal several times during WWll.  They hauled diesel fuel from Aruba out to the war ships in the Pacific Ocean.  They got hit twice by Japanese Kamakazi airplanes but didn't burn due to the low flame situation with diesel fuel.  My grandmother was a riveter on those same ships at the Oregon Shipyards.  Her name was Ida not Rosy.  Strangely, the Oregon Shipyards were across the Columbia River in Washington.

    Parent
    Baltimore is not a state. (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:17:34 AM EST
    And I'm not in the mood to play with the race cards you're dealing.

    I believe he or she meant... (2.00 / 1) (#75)
    by unitron on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:48:30 AM EST
    ...that Baltimore is the place in Maryland, Birmingham is the place in Alabama, Atlanta is the place in Georgia, Memphis is the place in Tennessee, and Jackson is the place in Mississippi where the highest concentration of Blacks is to be found and was not saying that those cities were states.

    I think the post would have worked better if "As proof, read about Freddie Gray's mother:" had been changed to "For an example, read about Freddie Gray's mother:".

    Parent

    If anyone bothered to read the article (5.00 / 2) (#78)
    by Anne on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 07:26:19 AM EST
    cited, they would know it wasn't "about Freddie Gray's mother," it was about Freddie and his siblings being exposed to and affected by lead paint.  The "about Freddie Gray's mother" part was a couple of sentences in a fairly long article.

    And while I take your point of  ___ is a city in ___, Baltimore is not a city in any of the states listed, and I don't believe Maryland is considered a "southern state."

    But let me ask you a question: if Freddie's mom had graduated from high school, would Freddie be alive today?

    This isn't about Freddie Gray's mom, or about blacks skewing crime numbers, it's about how a young man managed to get three broken vertebra in his neck and a crushed larynx between the time police stopped him, and when the police van arrived at the Western District lock-up.

    Maybe Nate ought to read this article and ponder that question.

    Parent

    My mother could read (5.00 / 2) (#79)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 07:32:59 AM EST
    but not very well.  My father could not.   Neither could ever help us with homework.   So fvcking what.  If I was killed in police custody I doubt it would be cited as a reason.

    But that person has provided me with one thing, a name for my next anal polyp.  

    Parent

    Maryland was as much a Southern state... (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by unitron on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 06:00:37 AM EST
    ...as it was a Northern State at the beginning of the Civil War, depending in part on in which part of Maryland one lived.

    Or was owned.

    Being a Southern state and being a state which joined the CSA are not equal and identical sets, although of course there is considerable overlap.


    Parent

    I live in Maryland. I work in (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by Anne on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 09:28:06 AM EST
    Baltimore, about four blocks from City Hall, right across from the National Aquarium.

    I don't consider Maryland the south, at least not where I live, which is 25 miles north of the city, and maybe 20 miles south of the Pennsylvania line.

    But that's not to say that there aren't areas of the state that probably are more southern in their culture and mindset than northern.

    But Baltimore?  That is not the south.  Which is not to say there isn't poverty and illiteracy and crime, but those things aren't the sole province of the black community.

    Parent

    It was a quintessential border state (none / 0) (#157)
    by Reconstructionist on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 10:40:23 AM EST
     geographically and culturally. It was a slave state and the economy and culture of portions (particularly the eastern shore) was much like the plantation agrarianism of the South. There was a strong secessionist movement. Its Western counties were more like PA and what became WV culturally and economically.

       In addition its obvious proximity to Washington,  one of the strongly contributing factors to it remaining with the Union was that the port of Baltimore and especially the B&O Railroad (linking B' More with the Ohio River at Wheeling) were vital strategic interests -- this factor also played a large rile in WV's secession from VA and admission to the Union as a separate state and the fact WV kept eastern counties through which the B&O passed despite those counties populaces being more "old Virginian" in character than Trans-Alleghany Virginia)

      It's worth noting that for purely pragmatic reasons the Emancipation Proclamation was not applicable to Maryland precisely because of fear freeing the slaves would weaken the Union's political and military grip on the state (and Kentucky and Missouri)

    Parent

    Prior to his scheduled inauguration ... (none / 0) (#192)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 09:30:36 PM EST
    ... in Washington D.C. on March 4, 1861, the hostility of Maryland residents forced Abraham Lincoln to sneak through Baltimore in disguise on the night on February 23, in order to circumvent an attempt to assassinate him at the railroad station.

    How unpopular was Lincoln in Marykand? Well, he had received only 2.5 percent of the state's popular vote in the election that previous November. Per historian James MacPherson (Battle Cry of Freedom, p. 285):

    "The tobacco counties of southern Maryland and the eastern shore of the Chesapeake Bay were secessionist. The grain-growing counties of northern and western Maryland, containing few slaves, were safe for the Union. But the loyalty of Baltimore, with a third of the state's population, was suspect. The mayor's unionism was barely tepid, and the police chief sympathized with the South. Confederate flags appeared on many city homes and buildings during the tense days after Sumter. The traditional role of mobs in Baltimore politics created a volatile situation."

    In the immediate wake of the shelling and surrender of Ft. Sumter on April 12013, 1861, the Maryland General Assembly would have very likely voted for secession, had President Lincoln not ordered the immediate occupation of Annapolis by federal troops and the shuttering of the State House to prevent state legislators from convening there.

    (Concurrently, he suspended habeas corpus throughout the state, which led to the first of several notable legal confrontations over civil liberties with the Supreme Court's chief justice, Roger Taney, himself a Maryland resident.)

    The state government evacuated to the town of Frederick, northwest of Washington, where Gov. Thomas Hicks called the General Assembly into special session on April 26, 1861 for the expressed purpose of considering the disposition of an ordinance of secession, which had earlier been introduced in both chambers.

    But Hicks was no secessionist himself, and what he instead sought to do was to force state lawmakers' hands on the matter. Because at that moment, they were surrounded by federal troops led by Gen. James Butler, who upon his earlier occupation of Annapolis the week prior had threatened to arrest any Maryland legislator who voted for secession.

    Given their obvious predicament, members of the Assembly understandably folded. Rather than approve the ordinance of secession, they instead declared the opposite through two separate votes over the next two days, which was that the Assembly had no constitutional authority to undertake any action that could lead to secession.

    Once that was accomplished, nervous legislators hastily adjourned the special session and departed Frederick to return to their respective districts -- all under the suspicious and watchful eyes of Union troops, who were then flooding the state on their way to Washington to protect the President and Congress from a possible Confederate attack on the federal capital.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    "Scrofulous harridan"? (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:18:43 AM EST
    Grow up.

    lol. suddenly Lois Lerner is the heroine. (none / 0) (#86)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:24:36 AM EST
    weird.

    Parent
    I think D is jealous (none / 0) (#89)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:31:08 AM EST
    he didn't come up with that.

    Parent
    I probably would have, you know. (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 05:09:39 PM EST
    But alas, Jim's a guy.
    ;-D

    Parent
    Yep - a veritable Norma Rae, she is. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:04:46 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    Heh ... (none / 0) (#107)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:38:06 AM EST
    Someone broke out their thesaurus.

    Parent
    LOL! Seriously, though, to what effect? (none / 0) (#134)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:01:13 PM EST
    Suffice to say that this white-wing yahoo probably didn't think of that bilious description of Mrs. Clinton all on his own. The odds are far better than even that he's simply regurgitating what he first heard elsewhere -- and I'll grant you three choices and two mulligans to guess from whom.

    He's emblematic of the sort of marginally intelligent but nevertheless low-brow misogynist of generally lazy intellect, likely white and probably male, for whom advanced cognitive processes apparently don't come very easily any more (if they ever did), simply because they're hardly ever really challenged by anyone to exercise them.

    Such misanthropes are often rather easily alienated politically, and have generally proved themselves to be all too willing and easy marks for the cynical and scandalmongering right-wing Wurlitzer that's Fox News, AM squawk radio, Newsmax, et al.

    At a time when some much overdue and sorely needed dialogue needs to take place across the various aisles of Congress, state legislatures and even our local public markets, the right-wing media have become the equivalent of chlorine gas released into the trenches, regularly and quite deliberately poisoning the atmosphere in which any such dialogue must obviously occur.

    I mean, how does one logically respond to such unrepentant and irredeemable dØuchebaggery as "scrofulous harridan," except to turn one's back and walk away? And quite honestly, isn't that what the Koch Bros., Sheldon Adelson and the crackpots they bankroll really want to happen -- the near-total polarization of the U.S. electorate, to the very precipice of political paralysis across the board?

    As for myself, I'd rather that we instead just call it out for what it is, and then return to the scene with some bulldozers -- the better to scrape the streets clean of this sorry muck and dreck, and cast it back into the gutters and sewers from whence it came, and where it properly belongs.

    Aloha.  

    Parent

    that comment was deleted for (none / 0) (#171)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:02:44 PM EST
    using an overly long url. They skew the site as we have narrow margins. URLs must be in html format. Use the link button at the top of the comment box.

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 1) (#74)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:36:34 AM EST
    Do tell ... please provide a link showing causation between being black and being a criminal.

    Oy.

    I think the claim being made here... (2.00 / 1) (#76)
    by unitron on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:51:08 AM EST
    ...is one of correlation, not causation.

    Parent
    How would you know? (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 07:09:14 AM EST
    Also, what would the point be?  The sun comes up every morning.  My dog needs to go out to pee.  The correlation is irrelevant.

    Parent
    I said think.... (none / 0) (#150)
    by unitron on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 06:06:52 AM EST
    ...not know.

    And the point is that if Nate was merely referencing the correlation, it's somewhat disingenuous to accuse him of calling it causation.

    And the poverty in the areas mentioned is a much more likely causation of the correlation with crime than skin color.

    Parent

    How would you "think"? (none / 0) (#154)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 08:52:19 AM EST
    How would you have any idea what he's thinking?  If you look at the plain words of his statement, he's clearly claiming causation:

    Most southern states have large number of Blacks that skew their crime and poverty numbers down.

    He's not saying that most southern states have large black populations and they have high crime rates (correlation).  He's saying the large numbers of AAs "skew their numbers down".

    Moreover, if he's not claiming some type of causation, the point would be irrelevant.  The rooster crows.  The sun rises.  The crowing is irrelevant to the sun rising.

    Parent

    And immune from meaningful enforcement (5.00 / 3) (#116)
    by Peter G on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 11:56:23 AM EST
    under the state's Religious Freedom Restoration Act? Surely there is some passage in the Old Testament that these creeps can assert they adhere to as the inerrant Word of God which requires them to run a swingers' club masquerading as a church. I'm not a biblical scholar, but I think it might be in the same chapter that says that the Lord forbids employers of thousands of retail workers to participate in providing health insurance that includes all forms of medically-approved contraception. If not that, maybe it's the chapter that says dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time as prehistoric human beings.

    Peter G., (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by KeysDan on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:37:50 PM EST
    Always appreciate your legal analysis and commentary.  As an aficionado of political parody as an effective sword, I also appreciate your more political comments.  More would be welcomed by me.  (note: from a recent NYT article, it was reported that Ted Cruz is very thin skinned and can't take criticism---always good to know about a politician's  a. heel).  

    Parent
    Peter that comment was deleted (none / 0) (#174)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:07:20 PM EST
    for put s*x in the title of the comment which will attract software sensors at law firms and elsewhere. It will also attract spammers. Using asterisks would have been okay.

    Parent
    That's ok (none / 0) (#191)
    by Peter G on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 07:24:07 PM EST
    I summarized it (or at least the "good part") in my response.

    Parent
    Jim, you really are ... (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 05:20:09 PM EST
    ... the last person on earth who should object to posting things that are "obviously foolish".  But when someone has to resort to "everyone knows" as their only argument, it's a sure sign they've lost.

    BTW - Congrats on figuring out this prosecution isn't about "Wisconsin Dems".  You walked right into that one.

    Oops.

    Flying without Sky Mall is horse$h*t (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Militarytracy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 07:19:02 AM EST
    Lightening strike outside the plane and no surreal real not real Christmas tree to focus on.  Too early to drink.  How many prescriptions for Xanax weren't written because you could unrealistically high on Sky Mall?

    You know why they had to sit on that guy mumbling about bombs?  NO DAMN SKY MALL!

    LOL! (none / 0) (#153)
    by Zorba on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 08:33:33 AM EST
    Go to the websites of Design Toscano and Hammacher Schlemmer, request their catalogues, then stick the catalogs in your carry-on bag and don't look at them until you get on a plane.
    And once you're on their lists, you'll  keep on getting catalogs.  Forever.   ;-)

    Parent
    I didn't realize that calling (5.00 / 2) (#203)
    by MO Blue on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 09:48:12 AM EST
    people on this blog "Stalinists" and accusing them of loving "purges and Gulags" was an acceptable form of discourse. I am totally confused as to why stonecutter's comment was not considered insulting and you only admonished Donald.

    Probably because Jeralyn expects more (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 11:13:48 AM EST
    of Comrade Donald and doesn't expect much of anyone potty-hurling the epithet "Stalinist" and muttering about George Soros.

    Parent
    Donald adds to the blog (5.00 / 3) (#206)
    by MO Blue on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 11:48:40 AM EST
    Potty-hurling trolls add nothing of value to the discourse and makes a person want to take a shower after reading the threads where their comments are posted.

    Parent
    Hey folks (2.00 / 2) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 08:42:32 PM EST
    How about some of you who demand accountability from the police explaining the raids on supporters of Gov walker in WI.

    In the dark, at night, battering doors down, with children at home, seizing personal computers ...telling children they must lie why their homework, which was on the computers, can't be turned in...

    WI is where Joe McCarthy came from...

    I ask you....

    Have you no shame?????

    They weren't just supporters (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 08:49:48 PM EST
    Link

    Fast forward to this new piece in the National Review, which is being breathlessly discussed in conservative circles as if it were the right wing's version of the Pentagon Papers. It's the story of jack-booted thugs raiding the homes of Republican activists all over Wisconsin, using such a degree of shock and awe that the subjects have mistaken the authorities for criminal home invaders. The star of this dramatic tale is a woman named Cindy Archer, whom the National Review article describes as "one of the lead architects of Wisconsin's Act 10 -- also called the `Wisconsin Budget Repair Bill, [which] limited public-employee benefits and altered collective-bargaining rules for public-employee unions." The article goes on to characterize her and the other victims of the raids (who are only identified by pseudonyms) simply as "conservatives," giving the impression that they are being targeted solely on that basis:

    For dozens of conservatives, the years since Scott Walker's first election as governor of Wisconsin transformed the state -- known for pro-football championships, good cheese, and a population with a reputation for being unfailingly polite -- into a place where conservatives have faced early-morning raids, multi-year secretive criminal investigations, slanderous and selective leaks to sympathetic media, and intrusive electronic snooping. Yes, Wisconsin, the cradle of the progressive movement and home of the "Wisconsin idea" -- the marriage of state governments and state universities to govern through technocratic reform -- was giving birth to a new progressive idea, the use of law enforcement as a political instrument, as a weapon to attempt to undo election results, shame opponents, and ruin lives.

    It's obviously impossible to know any details about the pseudonymous conservatives since we don't know their names. But Cindy Archer wasn't just a conservative citizen volunteering her time for cause. Back in 2011, when the story of the raid was first reported, the Wisconsin State Journal said she was an official who had worked with Walker as county executive and followed him to the capital.

    Quit being one of those bleeding-heart liberal making excuses for criminals, Jim.  

    Parent

    You are missing the point (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:05:37 PM EST
    when this sh!t starts happening to privileged white folks something HAS to be done.  

    Parent
    If were African Americans (none / 0) (#52)
    by MKS on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:45:05 PM EST
    they would not be complaining about a search of their home, they would be most likely dead.

    Parent
    Obviously, this is a product of a (none / 0) (#55)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:52:47 PM EST
    Dysfunctional conservative community whose leaders have for too long made excuses instead of taking action against the criminals in their midst and promising to combat the damage they cause to the greater society as well.

    Parent
    Pfft (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 08:58:47 PM EST
    results for Google search-

    "Scott Walker supporter raid"

    How Innocent Scott Walker Supporters Were Persecuted in Wisconsin
    RushLimbaugh.com‎ - 2 days ago
    How Innocent Scott Walker Supporters Were Persecuted in Wisconsin ... were forced to participate these midnight raids on innocent people ...

    The National Review's police-state hypocrisy: Ferguson protesters deserved it, but Scott Walker probe crosses the line
    Salon‎ - 7 hours ago

    Who was the reporter outside Cindy Archer's house?
    Watchdog.org‎ - 3 days ago

    Wisconsin's Shame: I Thought It Was a Home Invasion
    www.nationalreview.com/.../wisconsins-shame-i-thought-it-was-home-invas...
    4 days ago - Salon on Scott Walker Is Everything You'd Expect ... their First Amendment rights to support Act 10 and other conservative causes in Wisconsin. ... Most Americans have never heard of these raids, or of the lengthy criminal ...

    If the hair shirt is uncomfortable you could take it off.  But then what would you have?

    Parent

    You should (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:13:59 PM EST
    know by now to not get between a conservative and their hair shirt or a conservative who is nailing himself to a cross.

    Parent
    Meh (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by Yman on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:10:16 PM EST
    If you want sympathy/support, Jim, you shouldn't be so selective in your outrage.  You're just upset because it was your fellow TPers who got raided.  That's how John Doe raids work - they usually occur at night or early morning hours and you can't tell anyone about them.

    But your newfound outrage is duly noted.

    Parent

    You want shameless, Jim? Here you go. (5.00 / 4) (#57)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:33:57 PM EST
    Six former aides from this rancid slimeball's days as Milwaukee County Executive have since been convicted of public corruption, having engaged in various illicit activities which not only took place on his watch but likely also occurred with his concurrence.

    Yet at a GOP gathering in Iowa a couple months ago, this same walking rectal cavity actually had the brass to claim with a straight face that he had cleaned up " Milwaukee County's culture of corruption" while serving in that capacity.

    And if that doesn't constitute the most breathtakingly shameless sort of chutzpah, then I really can't say what does -- except, perhaps, the inexplicable efforts of this certain disingenuous schmuck whom we all know from these threads, who's presently attempting to rebrand Snidely Whiplash as Dudley Do-Right.

    Were I you, Jim, I'd keep one eye affixed to the skies, just in case Dorothy decides pay a return visit to your parallel Munchkinland and attempts to drop a house on you, too.

    Aloha, my little white-wing piñata.

    Parent

    Five aides, one donor (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Towanda on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:49:27 PM EST
    just to clarify the six felons convicted.

    They fell on their swords for Gov. Perp Walker -- and his criminal defense fund, covering their legal costs . . . the only candidate for president who has a criminal defense fund.  

    Parent

    Thank you for the clarification. (5.00 / 1) (#62)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:54:39 PM EST
    I gladly stand corrected.

    Parent
    You really have outed yourself now (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Towanda on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:46:37 PM EST
    as gullible, guy.  For the facts, which are not in your National Review, check its nonsense against reporting for years now by local media (see jsonline.com, madison.com, etc.) or even better work by local political blogs (Political Environment, Cognitive Dissidence, etc.).  

    Parent
    Towanda, I was reading one of those (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 12:14:22 AM EST
    all purpose, "Inside Edition"-Type of websites this morning. It was, more or less, similar to Huffpo (which I don't frequent cause I don't care for Ms. Huffington) Shhh, she's a friend of our host here, oh, wait a minute, I just remembered; it was "Slate" I was reading.

    Wow, a long-winded lead-up to what I wanted to say, which is that I'm a sucker for those "10 best this," or "10 worst that," lists; I'm pretty sure you've seen them, and, maybe even stopped, and perused them, also.

    Whew, finally got here!

    The lists that caught my attention this morning were, "The 10 richest states," and, "the 10 poorest states." I was particularly interested in the latter list. As you might have suspected, all 10 of the poorest States are, solidly, Republican. And, also, not surprising, 9 of the 10 poorest are in the South. The one not is New Mexico.

    Now I only bring this up, and, specifically on your thread, because Wisconsin government seems to have a lot of similarities to the list of Southern states I mentioned. And, please, I understand the Wisconsin of today probably doesn't have much resemblance to the Wisconsin you loved and grew up in.

    Anyway, I was just thinking that if you and I were sitting somewhere sipping a coffee (or tea, or whatever) and chatting, I would just love to pick your brain as to what happened to Wisconsin? I mean, we all know about the Southern Red States; they've been, basically, dysfunctional for years, semi-literate, self-abusing, racist, unhealthy, regressing instead of advancing, and, especially tragic, rejecting science & scholarship just as the global economy is moving to widen the chasm between the "haves," and, the "have not's," So the only hope youngsters today have of achieving an optimistic and satisfying life is to have those traits and skills. And, yet, today, in the year, 2015, their Leadership is promoting the very antithesis of what these kids needs. "Reject what those pinheads in the Universities are trying to brainwash you with, and, embrace the churches, live good, clean lives, adopt godly values like just saying no to sex, and accept the fact that gays, intellectuals, Liberals (but, really all Democrats,) scientists, and anti-war activist are simply other terms for SATAN!! And, the only reason a family in Louisiana is earning exactly half that of a family inlet's say, New England is because of Washington's oppressive rules & regulations.

    That's the South, but, Wisconsin?

    It's late, maybe we can finish this tomorrow, or in the near future?

    Parent

    Your unusual concern would be better spent (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Palli on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 02:35:49 PM EST
    on the Atlanta toddler whose face was obliterated when cops threw a flash grenade into a playpen during a drug raid. The PD is not being  held responsible for the extensive face reconstruction the poor kid will have to under go for years.

    http://tinyurl.com/owbwb4s

    Parent

    Have you no shame??? (none / 0) (#92)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:38:44 AM EST
    How about some of you who demand accountability from the police explaining the raids on supporters of Gov walker in WI.

    Why is this a surprise, Jim??? A police state like that imposed upon the Ferguson populace???

    Police acting unlawfully and not being held accountable for their unlawful actions is what you have been defending and praising here as if they can do no wrong.

    And now you have a problem with their actions in Wisconsin???

    Maybe the officers thought they had handfuls of cigarillos, or were jaywalking, or were thinking about going for their guns, or charging them with hands up and down, in and out, and making them fear for their lives.

    They should count themselves lucky that they didn't get the Mike Brown treatment.

    Have you no shame???

    Parent

    Chip (none / 0) (#99)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:00:32 AM EST
    The police were executing search warrants issued by a Demo prosecutor and a judge. There wasn't even a grand jury.

    So the police acted lawfully.

    Why don't you think before you comment?

    Parent

    Gripe (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:26:45 AM EST
    the police acted lawfully.

    So then the police were executing a lawful search warrant from a lawfully elected judge and lawfully elected prosecutor???

    Is that what you are saying???

    So then what's your gripe???

    Parent

    Apparently congrats are in order... (none / 0) (#1)
    by unitron on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 01:38:26 PM EST
    ...for Loretta E. Lynch, our next AG.

    Nice that the torch could be passed (none / 0) (#3)
    by Anne on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 01:58:48 PM EST
    from one bankster-protecting, Wall-Street loving AG to another, eh?

    What's not to like?


    Parent

    Glad she didn't take Donald's advice (none / 0) (#6)
    by CoralGables on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 02:40:16 PM EST
    which was to drop out of the running a week ago because they hadn't voted yet.

    Parent
    Well, I'm glad she didn't, too. (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:55:47 PM EST
    Although in my defense, at the time when I first offered that particular comment, there was really no public indication that Sen. McConnell would be scheduling any floor vote on her nomination in the near or distant future. As it stands, the fact that he delayed such a vote for nearly two months following her confirmation hearing is both shameful and disgraceful.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    SPAM warning (none / 0) (#4)
    by CST on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 02:01:02 PM EST
    The link at the top of the page sends you to an Allegra advertisement.

    Whoa, that is seriously devilish (none / 0) (#10)
    by Peter G on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:53:49 PM EST
    Someone has figured out how to hijack the "go back one post" link function.  Yecch.

    Parent
    Not so much hijack the function.... (none / 0) (#69)
    by unitron on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:13:49 AM EST
    ...as insert a thread into the list of threads, except the thread isn't mentioned on the main page.

    If you right click on that link and tell it to load in a separate tab, it appears to be a legit TL page and thread, sitting between the Supreme Court dog sniff thread and this one.

    I even managed with no more trouble than usual to post in it.

    (Maybe we can save it as an emergency overflow open thread known only to the regulars)

    Hey Jeralyn, do you know a user calling themselves DanielFuller?

    Parent

    what he did was somehow (none / 0) (#182)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:53:29 PM EST
    log on and change his user permissions to diarist or author and post a story. It didn't show on the main page because  only BTD and I can post on the main page. He also has registered under multiple names. They've all been zapped now, including his story. Thanks for the alert.

    Parent
    - It was kind of like being in the half story (none / 0) (#190)
    by Mr Natural on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 07:22:52 PM EST
    height office of a very weird movie from a few years back, Being John Malkovich.

    Parent
    it's been deleted (none / 0) (#181)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:50:29 PM EST
    I have no idea how he hacked in, but he's been zapped.

    Parent
    It will be interesting to see how Lynch (none / 0) (#5)
    by NycNate on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 02:13:38 PM EST
    handles the civil rights violation claims of inner city men/women in Baltimore and cities around the country.  

    Will she be as quick to open investigations as Holder has been? I think this will be interesting as many people in the black community have given up hope of finding remedies from their local governments  

    General (ret) David Petraeus (none / 0) (#7)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:37:56 PM EST
    was sentenced to two years probation and a $100,000 fine, for sharing classified information with his mistress, Paula Broadwell.   The plea deal was supported by AG Holder, although, according to the NYT, some FBI and prosecutors disagreed, expressing the leniency was a double standard.  The Prosecutors asked for two years in jail and a $40,000 fine; but the judge decreased (to zero) jail time and increased the fine.  

    I wonder whether anyone else (5.00 / 3) (#14)
    by Peter G on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:59:41 PM EST
    in the 100-year history of the Espionage Act has received a sentence of probation.

    Parent
    Yeah, (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:43:22 AM EST
      as I spend a good portion of my life arguing, that things such as lack of prior record, aberrant nature of the conduct in light of client's past, years of gainful and (sometimes) distinguished employment, lack of actual harm (or the intent to cause that harm) the statute is designed to protect against, lesser need for specific deterrence given client's character, lack of need to protect the public from future wrongdoing, collateral (non-judicial/penal) consequences  flowing from the conviction,  etc, etc. are all grounds for leniency at sentencing, I can't well argue that this punishment is unduly lenient viewed in isolation without being a tad hypocritical.

       The issue for me is whether his status and power made it easier for him to get the benefit of factors for which I believe all defendants should get benefit.  

       

    Parent

    LOL, very good, congratulations (none / 0) (#115)
    by NYShooter on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 10:44:15 AM EST
    Your very last sentence; and really, I looked real hard at your face to see how long you could look so sincere, even stoic, since posing it as a question (as if you didn't know the answer) the urge to break out in an uncontrollable laugh must have been overwhelming.

    Congratulations again!

    Parent

    Ha Ha (5.00 / 1) (#117)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 01:04:33 PM EST
      Perhaps I am now subconsciously shying away from daring to draw rational inferences from available knowledge, because the principled empiricists here who demand irrefutable direct evidence of any assertion have cowed me, finally.

      Good catch. At the risk of drawing the ire of those who assert such impossible standards of proof are mandatory to support a direct assertion, I will say that despite the fact I can't prove it with "hard evidence" I do believe it is an advantage in court to be wealthy, powerful and influential.

       Fire away!

    Parent

    Well, at least one other: (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 06:18:35 PM EST
    Anyone remember Samuel Loring Morrison? Espionage Act nerds certainly do.

    Morrison was the first person prosecuted and convicted under the Espionage Act for leaking classified material? Morrison was convicted in the 1980s of leaking satellite photos to Jane's Defense Weekly. He was later pardoned retrospectively by President Clinton as part of Clinton's spree of pardons on his way out of office in 2001.

    Well, apparently Morrison is now also the first Espionage Act convict to win himself a second conviction for purloining government documents.

    Check this out--from the Navy Times:

    Samuel Loring Morison pleaded guilty to stealing boxes worth of government records from a naval history archive in the nation's capital. The records were related to his grandfather, a prominent historian.

    Morison, 70, pleaded guilty to theft of government property and was sentenced to two years of probation. He must also cooperate with officials in returning any additional items that belong to the government. A prosecutor said Morison stole thousands of records -- including maps, charts and photographs -- from the Naval History and Heritage Command in Washington, which preserves U.S. naval history.



    Parent
    I cannot find any indication (none / 0) (#58)
    by Peter G on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:35:00 PM EST
    from the linked article or otherwise that Morison's second conviction, for which he received a sentence of probation, was under the Espionage Act (which is what I asked about). His second, more recent conviction appears to be for theft of government property (some of his famous historian grandfather's research papers, which are held in the National Archives). For his 1985 espionage conviction, he received a two year prison sentence.

    Parent
    Good catch, you are right. I read it too quickly. (none / 0) (#59)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:39:07 PM EST


    Parent
    On the other hand, it appears (none / 0) (#108)
    by Peter G on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:41:57 AM EST
    from J's more detailed post on the subject, that Petreaus -- although initially charged under the Espionage Act -- was convicted only of the misdemeanor of unauthorized removal of documents.  On that basis, I withdraw my implied criticism of the sentence as special treatment. On the unusual facts of his case, I'm no longer willing to suggest that the sentence was unduly lenient.

    Parent
    ah, I'm nost as fast on that score (none / 0) (#111)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:45:20 AM EST
      That might apply to the judge's exercise of discretion, but one can still question whether the prosecution's willingness to offer a misdemeanor plea and a recommendation for probation was influenced by his status.

    Parent
    Yes, of course. I should have included (none / 0) (#113)
    by Peter G on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:48:42 AM EST
    explicitly that I had considered the all-important prosecutorial discretion factor and incorporated it (in my own mind) into my revised position.

    Parent
    Yes, (none / 0) (#114)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 10:01:24 AM EST
       I'm not saying I think DOJ was wrong to offer such a deal either, just questioning whether it might be harder for some others to get DOJ to do the "right" thing.

      Would a veteran, not a commanding general but some blue collar guy whose distinguished service involved merely  engaging in combat as a private E-1, who intentionally disclosed similarly sensitive classified info to impress a woman he had eyes on be treated the same?

    Parent

    Correction: Prosecutors (none / 0) (#8)
    by KeysDan on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:47:27 PM EST
    recommended two years of probation (no jail time) and $40,000 fine (the judge increased the fine to $100,000 to show the seriousness of the crime).   The plea deal might have included up to one year in jail.

    Parent
    But, but, but..... (none / 0) (#9)
    by Zorba on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 03:51:24 PM EST
    He was a General, after all!  (Yes, this is snark.)
    Just because he was a general and was thinking with his little head instead of his big one, that doesn't mean they should have been so lenient on him.  I don't mean jail time, necessarily, but an even bigger fine, and a whole lot of community service.  Plus perhaps losing his military pension.
    Or leave the current fine in place, but remove his military pension.  I'm not even sure they can do that, and if they cannot, then the fine should be a whole heck of a lot bigger.

    Parent
    But, but, but, ... (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 04:07:54 PM EST
    ... he won the Iraq War!!!

    Oh, wait -- no, he didn't. Never mind.

    ;-D

    P.S.: From my understanding, federal law generally prohibits the retroactive revision, amendment or denial of pension benefits that have already been accrued by a beneficiary. Gen. Petraeus had been formally retired from the military rolls for several years, at the time he committed his transgressions as CIA Director.

    Parent

    but...but...but (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 04:32:37 PM EST
    of course he won the Iraq war. Victory signed and delivered until the cowardly/tyrannical/commie/secret Muslim Obama foolishly threw it away. Did you not receive your revisionist history update? The latest is v2015.2. You might want to wait though, my sources tell me the next version will blame it all on HRC.

    Parent
    Yea, that's what (none / 0) (#20)
    by Zorba on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 04:59:05 PM EST
    I figured.  In which case, the fine should have been even bigger, plus a whole lot of community service.  And I'm not talking about him going into schools and giving them talks about the military.  I'm talking about picking up trash from the sides of highways, or cleaning bedpans in a nursing home.

    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 2) (#28)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 06:26:28 PM EST
    It's all just really a damned shame, Zorba.

    Edward Snowden has been effectively exiled in Moscow, just because he sought to show the American people that their own government was spying on them. David Petraeus has been effectively retired in Virginia, just because he wanted to show Paula Broadwell what was behind his zipper.

    Yet, in the eyes of far too many Americans, the guy who breached national security while chasing some nookie is considered a hero, and the guy who breached national security by disclosing illegal domestic surveillance operations is demonized as a traitor.

    (Sigh!) Go figure.

    Parent

    No (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 07:18:42 PM EST
    figuring about it. There is a strikingly obvious multi-tier justice system in this country. The rich and powerful own it, the (white) middle class try to avoid or navigate it (while paying for most of it), the minorities fear and are just trying to survive it. This is our American justice system, cherish it.

    Parent
    What, you're just now (none / 0) (#37)
    by Zorba on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 07:27:36 PM EST
    figuring that out?  
    Kidding, and not meaning to dis you, FlJoe.
    I've known this for around fifty years or a bit more now.  (Okay, okay, I'm old.)

    Parent
    same here (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 08:13:50 PM EST
    ever since my mid teens I have questioned authority and have never received a satisfactory answer. Of course I was indoctrinated into the "truth, justice and the American way" meme and I remember putting my hand over my heart and unthinkingly  pledging my allegiance to a frigging flag.a thousand times, had me fooled until Vietnam and tricky Dick came along.

    Parent
    Mike Brown family suing city of Ferguson (none / 0) (#19)
    by McBain on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 04:45:02 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/pltt9q3

    Will this go to trial?  Settlement? Thrown out? I don't see a strong case here but I'd like to hear from TL lawyers.  The suit also names Darren Wilson.

    If memory serves, civil cases aren't usually televised?  If not, it would still be interesting to read what the witnesses will have to say this time.

    More here (none / 0) (#35)
    by Uncle Chip on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 07:18:50 PM EST
    Brown family lawsuit

    Attorneys for the Brown family say the investigation was bungled from the beginning when police supervisors allowed Wilson to leave the crime scene unescorted and return to the Ferguson Police Department, where he washed his hands and stored his weapon.

    "Defendant Wilson returned to the police station and began destroying evidence and interfering with the investigation," the lawsuit states.

    According to his account, Wilson said he spotted blood on both hands while driving back and wanted to get clean it off for safety reasons.

    "I immediately go to the bathroom," he told a grand jury in September. "Just from everything that we have always been taught about blood, you don't want it on you, you don't touch it, you don't come in contact with it."

    No photographs were taken before he washed his hands twice.

    A few minutes later, Wilson put on rubber gloves, removed the one bullet he hadn't fired at Brown from his gun and put the weapon in an evidence bag. Prosecutors overseeing the grand jury asked him why he wore gloves to store the gun.

    "To preserve any evidence on there," he testified. "I knew his DNA was on that gun."....

    --------------------

    Really -- wasn't his DNA also on YOUR HANDS that you and your fiance scrubbed clean???

    And to think that this bonehead was allowed to carry a badge and a gun and drive the streets of Ferguson unescorted.

    BTW the lawsuit also points out that Wilson told the Grand Jury that Brown had his HANDS UP as he came toward him. I guess the DOJ missed that.

    Parent

    Chip, please don't try to say something (none / 0) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:15:40 PM EST
    that is not true by taking things out of context.

     

    The only way I can describe it, it looks like a
    3 demon, that's how angry he looked. He comes back
    4 towards me again with his hands up.
    5 At that point I just went like this,
    6 I tried to pull the trigger again, click, nothing
    7 happened.
    8 When you say he came back up to you with

    9 his hands up, describe to us what he is doing?

    10 A Last thing I saw was this coming at me.
    ll Was it a fist?
    12 A I just saw his hands up, I don't know if

    13 they were closed yet, on the way to going closed, I
    14 saw this and that face coming at me again, and I

    This is Wilson describing Brown attacking him while Wilson was still inside the police SUV. It has nothing to do with Brown turning and rushing towards Wilson.

    And you know it.

    Parent

    And you know it (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by Uncle Chip on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 07:58:20 AM EST
    Wilson: "I just saw his hands up ..."

    So you admit that Wilson testified that he "saw his hands up".

    What's there to dispute about that???

    Please notify the deniers and fabricators so they can reclaim some semblance of their credibility in this matter.

    But what's most important is that the killer's first action after the shooting was to return to the station unescorted with the Chief's blessing to unlawfully and unconscionably wash the blood of his victim off his hands and down the drain with the assistance of his fiance who was his his supervisor.

    Only a guilty person with something to hide does that.

    Even in your wildest imagination you cannot dispute that or justify that action in any way.

    Nothing he says after that can be believed.

    And you know it.

    Parent

    Chip there are several ways (none / 0) (#96)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:53:46 AM EST
    to lie.

    One is to take something out of context that has nothing to do with a further action and try and claim it proves something.

    That is what you have done.

    You have no credibility left to make any comment or cliam.

    Parent

    Are there? (5.00 / 2) (#110)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:44:12 AM EST
    Do tell, Jim.  This is one area where you actually have expertise.  Tell us the other methods you use ...

    Parent
    So you're saying.... (none / 0) (#147)
    by unitron on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 05:26:49 AM EST
    ...that Brown was surrendering upside Wilson's head?

    Parent
    altercation (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by Uncle Chip on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 09:02:35 AM EST
    So you're saying that Brown was surrendering upside Wilson's head?

    You'll have to pose that question to the drain back at the police station down which this hero cop and his fiance washed a whole lot of evidence.

    No touch DNA from Brown was ever found on Wilson's head -- though I'm sure they searched diligently for it with no success.

    Thus there is no physical evidence nor reliable testimony that he ever touched his head. If he had physical evidence would have been there in the form of skin cells and touch DNA.

    Even StL Prosecutor McCulloch didn't believe the lying officer's prefabrications on that matter as he referred in his statement to what happened at the vehicle as merely "an altercation" -- not an assault -- not a struggle for the gun -- just "an altercation" that the officer started and then escalated to deadly force.

    But thanks for asking --

    Parent

    I wonder... (none / 0) (#72)
    by unitron on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:21:41 AM EST
    ...could that store clerk sue Brown's estate for suffering and mental anguish or whatever their lawyers decide to call it?

    Parent
    Since he didn't (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 01:34:12 PM EST
    ...complain to the police about any such activity on Mr. Brown's part on the day of the event, what would be his standing to "suddenly" remember it and be thus traumatized?

    I can't believe how many people seem to think a kid with no police record deserved to die while trying to surrender over a charge of JAYWALKING.

    If I didn't see it all the time, I mean.

    Parent

    So the Grand Jury (none / 0) (#127)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 03:12:51 PM EST
    was wrong.

    And the video of the store robbery doesn't exist.

    Okie doakie.

    Parent

    It wasn't jaywalking.... (none / 0) (#148)
    by unitron on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 05:30:28 AM EST
    ...which is crossing the street in the wrong place, at more or less a right angle to the direction which vehicular traffic would take, it was walking down the middle of the street in the same direction as or the direct opposite direction which traffic would take.

    Parent
    actually (none / 0) (#151)
    by Palli on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 07:01:08 AM EST
    It might have been the nebulous, P O personal determination charge listed as "Manner of Walking in the Roadway".

    Parent
    In that case (none / 0) (#175)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:09:09 PM EST
    It Wasn't Jaywalking

    ...it was walking down the middle of the street in the same direction as or the direct opposite direction which traffic would take.

    Ah.  Then it WAS a death penalty offense.

    My apology.  Of course he deserved to die, but not without a few hours of torture.

    Parent

    Two can play at that game, Cap'n. (none / 0) (#29)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 06:30:06 PM EST
    I'll see your "Little Head," and raise you some Talking Heads.

    You been served (none / 0) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 06:52:47 PM EST
    Modern Talking

    http://tinyurl.com/q7zrpcr

    Top THAT

    Parent

    Okay, I'll try. (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 07:57:13 PM EST
    As long as I'm into the '80s music scene, how about David Bowie's "Modern Love," followed by The Eurhythmics' "Better to Have Lost in Love (Than Never to Have Loved at All)"?

    Parent
    There's always (none / 0) (#73)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:30:13 AM EST
    this 1978 music video, Rasputin.

    Rah Rah Rasputin, Russia's greatest love machine...

    Parent

    And from Rasputin, it's but a short trip to ... (none / 0) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 05:04:45 PM EST
    ... Al Stewart's darkly somber "Roads to Moscow":

    "I'm coming home, I'm coming home!
    You can taste it in the wind, the war is over.
    I'm listening to the clicking of the trail wheels
    As we roll across the border.

    Now they ask me of the time
    I was caught behind their lines and taken prisoner.
    They only held me for a day, I say. A lucky break.
    They turn and listen closer.

    "I'll never know, I'll never know
    Why I was taken from the line, from all the others,
    To board a social train and journey deep
    Into the heart of Holy Russia.

    "And it's cold and damp in the transit camp, and the air is still and sullen.
    The pale sun of October whispers the snows will soon be coming.
    I wonder when I'll be home again and the morning answers, never.
    The evening sighs and the steely Russian skies go on, forever."

    Then, to lighten the mood considerably, I'll throw in a some much-needed John, Paul, George and Ringo with "Back in the U.S.S.R." -- followed, but of course, by their extended version of a true classic, "Revolution 1, Take 20," which was recorded in late 1967 but not released publicly until March 2009.

    (You'll probably want to break out the bong for the last one. Seriously. I think "Take 20" is effin brilliant. Everything makes perfect sense now.)

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Hello, Starets (none / 0) (#131)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 05:08:51 PM EST


    Parent
    et al (none / 0) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:26:57 PM EST
    Howdy, it is supporter.S And if you want to support midnight raids on personal homes were children are known to be there and no evidence of expected resistance and/or violence is known....Then be my guest.

    It clearly follows what we can expect from the
    radical left and their supporters

    Yman, I thought you believed in transparency and openness. Evidently you do not.

    BTW, the victims are starting to talk and ignore this obviously state sponsored terrorism. And one ex-policeman is talking.

    Let's see what happens.

    Hahahahahaha ... (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Yman on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 10:19:59 PM EST
    Yman, I thought you believed in transparency and openness. Evidently you do not.

    You're too funny, Jim.  I explain to you how John Doe warrants work and you claim this means I'm against transparency and openness.  Logic is not your friend.

    The funniest part was your use of the terms "victims" and "state sponsored terrorism".  They were "victims" of nothing, other than being served with search warrants.  And suddenly when some TPers get served with warrants it's "state sponsored terrorism" rather than a police investigation with warrants issued by a court.  Warrants issued in a matter in which several people have already been convicted.

    Heh.  Your sudden concern is touching.

    An "ex-policeman is talking".  Wow.  Yet you didn't provide a link or even state what he's saying.  That sounds serious.

    Not.

    Parent

    et all again (none / 0) (#83)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:06:28 AM EST
    Yman, thanks for telling me that the actions of the WI democrats are legal.

    I mean, breaking down doors in the middle of the night when there is absolutely expectation of resistance and/or violence is fine with you????

    And here I thought you were a liberal.

    Have a nice day, mien Storm Trooper fan.

    mks, the issue is not having the police show up and search your home. The issue is having them show up in the middle of the night with a battering ram, break down your door and rush in.

    Do you think that might terrorize your children??

    You and your spouse??

    Remember, there was no expectation of resistance.

    BTW - I have never commented approval of "stop and frisk" and I wrote this re Eric Garner:

    The mayor of NYC wants 3 days of training for the police on how to make an arrest/confront, etc.

    Okay, fine. Sounds good to me.

    Link

    Mordiggian, in drug raids there is an expectation, based on past history, of resistance and the possibility of violence.

    That was not the case here.

    BTW - I have made numerous comments about our drug laws. Here:

    I have, as a Social Liberal and Independent, commented time and again that our drug laws are screwed up and need rationalization.

    IOW - I would make most drugs legal.

    This from 6/11:

    The Global Commission on Drug Policy has just released a report finding the War on Drugs is a failure. The report is available here.

    (Jim)....The Demos should grab this and run with it They would be shocked to see what support it would have.

    Will they? No.

    (yman) ....Why not the "Repubs"

    (Jim).....That works for me .....
    But the chances are slim and slimmer that the Repubs would embrace such a policy beyond the Rep Libertarians.

    The Demos, on the other hand, have the White House and the Senate.

    But they don't have the nerve.

    Folks, I am appalled that you have no condemnation of such actions.

    It was politically motivated and the warrants issued without even a grand jury.  

    But your approval of bully tactics is not unexpected or new.

    Parent

    Wisconsin Democrats? (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Yman on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:35:27 AM EST
    Heh.  Hate to tell you, Jim, but the Special Prosecutor in charge of this investigation is a Bush administration prosecutor.  But at least we know why you're suddenly concerned.

    BTW - "No expectation of violence"?  I didn't realize you were involved in the planning of the raids.  Care to share your evidence?  Those TPers DO love their guns.  Moreover, such radius are usually configured at such hours and without advance notice to avoid giving suspects the opportunity to destroy evidence.

    Care to post any links to your comments expressing outrage at the Ferguson raids?

    Heh.

    Parent

    Come off of it Jim (none / 0) (#91)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:37:21 AM EST
    Mordiggian, in drug raids there is an expectation, based on past history, of resistance and the possibility of violence.

    Yes, and there have been many drug raids carried out on innocent people because of mistakes made by informants/police which have ended up on injuries/lives lost, but since "there is an expectation of violence" it's okay even if they ruin innocent, law-abiding lives in the process.  

    You are still really for the Drug War when you defend such tactics as necessary.

    Also, I would argue that using a public office for the exclusive promotion of one political party is just as or more menacing to public morale and democracy as any heroin/crack dealer selling their illegal wares on the street, and should be treated as such, even if it's done by nice, white, conservative people.

    Thanks for demonstrating what a Social Liberal is really all about.


    Parent

    Oh, and BTW (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:51:20 AM EST
    John Doe investigations have been legal In WI for over a century, and don't involve a grand jury.

    The John Doe proceeding is an institution sanctioned by long usage since Wisconsin's territorial days.1 The provisions of Wis. Stat. section 968.26 currently define the scope of a John Doe proceeding in Wisconsin, which is intended as an independent, investigatory tool to ascertain whether a crime has been committed and if so, by whom.

    The goal is to allow the judge to determine whether it appears probable from the testimony given that a crime has been committed, and whether to file a complaint. But the proceedings are also designed to protect innocent citizens from the fallout of frivolous prosecutions.2

    As the Wisconsin Supreme Court stated in 1889: "When [the John Doe] statute was first enacted the common-law practice was for the magistrate to issue the warrant on a complaint of mere suspicion, and he was protected in doing so. This was found to be a very unsafe practice. Many arrests were made on groundless suspicion, when the accused were innocent of the crime and there was no testimony whatever against them. This statute was made to protect citizens from arrest and imprisonment on frivolous and groundless suspicion."3

    Unlike normal criminal proceedings, which can be initiated if there is probable cause to believe a person has violated the law, John Doe proceedings help law enforcement develop the evidence necessary to establish the very existence of probable cause.

    When are you going to wise up as to the inherent dishonesty of the NRO/Fox News crowd?  You're just another sucker/shill for them, Jim, nothing more.

    Parent

    None of the people discussed (none / 0) (#100)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:02:30 AM EST
    by me here have been convicted, or indicted.

    Parent
    You've already shown that you (none / 0) (#102)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:09:15 AM EST
    Only know one side of the story.

    Over the last 25 years, America has seen a disturbing militarization of its civilian law enforcement, along with a dramatic and unsettling rise in the use of paramilitary police units (most commonly called Special Weapons and Tactics, or SWAT) for routine police work. The most common use of SWAT teams today is to serve narcotics warrants, usually with forced, unannounced entry into the home.

    These increasingly frequent raids, 40,000 per year by one estimate, are needlessly subjecting nonviolent drug offenders, bystanders, and wrongly targeted civilians to the terror of having their homes invaded while they're sleeping, usually by teams of heavily armed paramilitary units dressed not as police officers but as soldiers. These raids bring unnecessary violence and provocation to nonviolent drug offenders, many of whom were guilty of only misdemeanors. The raids terrorize innocents when police mistakenly target the wrong residence. And they have resulted in dozens of needless deaths and injuries, not only of drug offenders, but also of police officers, children, bystanders, and innocent suspects.
    ..............

    Members of the right are shocked and stunned to see nice, white conservatives being treated disrespectfully by police, as if they are some kind of a "perp." Early morning raids, screaming police, tasering protesters -- it's all creepy. But it's equally creepy when it's done to people who aren't nice, white conservatives, and it happens every day of the week in America. Now that their own ox has been gored, maybe this incident can raise the consciousness of some of those conservatives who far too often see the police as the one agent of the government that can do no wrong.

    Or Social Liberals, as the case may be.

    Do some research before spewing nonsense here in the future.

    Parent

    I repeat (none / 0) (#124)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 03:08:06 PM EST
    The people I have discussed have not been indicted or convicted.

    You are trying to excuse the actions of the Demos involved by writing about other people.

    Which is par for the course for someone who tries to claim I wrote things I didn't.

    And then continues to do so even after I provided quotations.

    Sad.

    Parent

    That's because there is a John Doe (5.00 / 1) (#129)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 03:19:13 PM EST
    investigation which is still not over with yet.

    Walker Criminal Probe to Be "Heard" in Silence

    The Wisconsin Supreme Court is slated to take up the "John Doe" criminal investigation of alleged coordination between Friends of Scott Walker and "independent" groups during the tumultuous 2011-2012 recall elections.

    The Center for Media and Democracy (CMD) has detailed the bipartisan state investigation into the Walker campaign and the secretive big money groups that bankrolled his 2012 recall victory. Wisconsin Club for Growth (WiCFG), headed by Walker campaign manager R.J. Johnson and the "third Koch Brother" Eric O'Keefe, spent at least $9.1 million on Wisconsin's unprecedented recall elections, and funneled almost $10 million more to other politically-active groups, including Wisconsin Manufacturers and Commerce. Yet, WiCFG, which enjoys tax free status, told the IRS that it spent $0 in political activity during that period.  

    Prosecutors allege that Walker secretly raised millions for WiCFG from out-of-state donors like Donald Trump and Paul Singer, and allegedly coordinated with WiCFG in order to evade Wisconsin's donor disclosure laws. Talking points prepared for the governor advised him to "stress that donations to WiCFG are not disclosed," and to tell donors "that you can accept corporate contributions and it is not reported."

    Educate yourself, don't repeat talking points that others have written for you to regurgitate.

    Otherwise, your lack of care in this matter defines you, doesn't it?

    Parent

    No (none / 0) (#158)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 10:51:19 AM EST
    The people are coming forward and are now identified.

    They are defying the Democrats.

    Try keeping up and you won't look so misinformed and wasted hundreds of words proving that.

    Parent

    Sorry, Jim, but you're the one (none / 0) (#162)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 11:52:02 AM EST
    who quoted the slanted NRO article, so save your lectures for someone else who buys your brand of BS.

    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#94)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:44:58 AM EST
    there have been many drug raids carried out on innocent people

    And based on history, there is a reasonable expectation of resistance.

    None existed here.

    And thanks for making my point.

    I would argue that using a public office for the exclusive promotion of one political party is just as or more menacing to public morale and democracy as any heroin/crack dealer selling their illegal wares on the street,

    It was a Democratic prosecutor and a Democratic judge who used a law to suppress and chill the opposition.

    You know, I didn't think it possible that you could lower my opinion of you.

    Congratulations. You have surpassed my expectations.


    Parent

    Gee, you're the one who (none / 0) (#98)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:57:58 AM EST
    makes a fuss about due procedure, Jim.

    Their convictions were rendered by a jury of their peers, and you can't change that fact by your smear involving the party registrations of the judge and prosecutor.

    Is this what you want to defend?

    Kelly Rindfleisch was convicted of illegal campaign activity for working on the 2010 lieutenant governor's campaign of then-Rep. Brett Davis while serving as Walker's deputy chief of staff during his time as Milwaukee county executive. In Wisconsin, it is illegal for public employees to work on campaigns while on the clock and being paid to administer state services.

    Prosecutors found that Rindfleisch traded more than 3,000 emails with Walker campaign staffers, most of which were sent on county time from a secret email system in Walker's office. Davis, who was Walker's favored candidate, lost the race but was later appointed by the governor as head of Wisconsin's Medicaid program.

    Rindfleisch was sentenced in 2012 to six months in jail, but her sentence has been stayed as she appeals. She unsuccessfully requested to keep her emails secret while attempting to have her conviction overturned. In addition to the welfare email, the newly released documents show Rindfleisch was also sent an email from Walker's then chief of staff in Milwaukee County about a "nightmare" of waking up as unemployed, black, Jewish homosexual.

    "Oh God, please don't tell me I'm a Democrat," the email ends.

    Thanks for going on the record as being objectively pro-corruption.   It defines you, as you like to say around here.

    Parent

    Terrorism by the police (none / 0) (#50)
    by MKS on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:38:38 PM EST
    I think there is a difference between being shot dead or killed by the police, and having your home searched according to a warrant.

    Not that I would like the latter, but the perspective here is a bit jarring.  

    Moreover, the death threats it appears did not come from elected officials or leaders....You have nuts everywhere....

    Parent

    They do drug raids all the time (none / 0) (#51)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:43:02 PM EST
    with children of all ages Iiving in the house, so I don't see why non-drug felonies should be treated any differently.

    Now, if you want to argue that the War on Some Drugs should be ended, and some of the tactics that were used in nice conservative people in this case should not be used on anyone except kidnappers and human traffickers,  I agree.

    Good luck on getting anyone in the Fox Noise crowd to do so as well.


    Parent

    You were outraged at (none / 0) (#53)
    by MKS on Thu Apr 23, 2015 at 09:48:32 PM EST
    the scope of the use of stop and frisk in NY?   They suffered a lot of personal humiliation.....

    Parent
    Please read your host's rules about posting. (none / 0) (#68)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 06:11:12 AM EST
    One of them is hyperlinking any articles, etc., and not posting the URL, which can skew the site because they don't necessarily wrap with the margins. Rather, by using the hyperlink, your post should look as follows:

    "Most southern states have a large number of Blacks that skew their crime and poverty numbers down. MS, AL, GA all have a minority population>20%. Where the minorities are in those states (Birmingham/ATL/Jackson/Memphis/Baltimore), there is skyrocketing illiteracy, poverty, etc.  As proof, read about Freddie Gray's mother."

    Aloha.

    Oops. My bad. (none / 0) (#80)
    by lentinel on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 07:56:59 AM EST
    WASHINGTON -- An American aid worker and another man held hostage by Al Qaeda were killed in an American drone strike in Pakistan in January, government officials disclosed on Thursday, underscoring the perils of a largely invisible, long-distance war waged through video screens, joysticks and sometimes incomplete intelligence.

    Intending to wipe out a compound linked to the terrorist group, the Central Intelligence Agency authorized the attack with no idea that the hostages were being held there despite hundreds of hours of surveillance, the officials said.

    Mr. Obama offered his apologies.

    "Never mind" (5.00 / 1) (#82)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:06:16 AM EST
    - Pentagon Spokesperson, Miss Emily Litella

    Parent
    Emily says "never mind". (none / 0) (#141)
    by lentinel on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 11:11:31 PM EST
    The New York Times spells it out in a tiny bit more detail:

    The strike that killed two hostages by mistake has underscored that there is no such thing as near certainty in war, even one waged with precision instruments like drones.

    So, my fellow Americans, in one swell foop, er, I mean one fell swoop, we learn that drones are "precision instruments", and there is such thing as near certainty in war.

    In short, drones are precision instruments and there is no such thing as certainty.

    Precision instruments that cannot be precise.

    Never mind.

    Thank you for explaining it, NYTimes.

    It's all good.

    You got a problem with that?

    Parent

    Water (none / 0) (#84)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:10:20 AM EST
    MotherJones has an interesting but on water usage.  A list of the amount of water it takes to produce some of favorite things.

    http://tinyurl.com/lagkfsw

    4oz coffee - 37 gallons

    Hamburger - 634 gallons

    Assume a cheeseburger would be more since
    1lb cheese - 599 gallons.

    A pair of jeans - 2,866 gallons

    Which all pale in comparison... (none / 0) (#85)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:14:40 AM EST
    to the amount of water used in fracking a well. That takes anywhere from 2 to 8 (or more) million gallons of water per well.

    Parent
    All of which, according to frackers, (5.00 / 3) (#87)
    by Mr Natural on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:26:05 AM EST
    comes out of the process purer than the fluffiest of snowfalls.

    Parent
    I say, leave the oil in the ground; (none / 0) (#88)
    by NYShooter on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:30:22 AM EST
    use the water to power new, technologically advanced steam engines, and utilize our most modern, most efficient solar panels to generate the heat to make the steam.

    Move over, Tesla.

    Parent

    Got dang hippies... (none / 0) (#90)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:32:48 AM EST
    this reminds me of Dad driving us through the Haight around the same time in our gigantic Dodge station wagon as we gazed in amazement at the street show.  

    I'd recount some of Dad's colorful remarks, but this is a family friendly blog after all.

    That was awsum (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:42:31 AM EST
    it reminded me of a money making scheme I was discussing with a friend not long ago-

    Luxury tours for the 1% through poor rural areas.  Like a drive through a nature preserve.

    Parent

    So... (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:21:01 AM EST
    like taking the Walton clan to the local Walmart?

    Parent
    I remember (5.00 / 1) (#119)
    by Repack Rider on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 01:39:09 PM EST
    ...being in the Haight, and seeing tourists in gigantic station wagons gawking at the locals as if they were some sort of zoo display.  Now nearly 50 years later, it turned out that the hippies were right about almost everything.

    Parent
    My wife live in the Haight (none / 0) (#137)
    by MKS on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:11:59 PM EST
    when she was in college.  

    Our son lived there for a year a couple of years....ago.

    It is right by USF....and you have a lot of serious college students now and young professionals......Haight street itself has some interesting places....mainly just bars though.

    I think the areas is fascinating because it is close to old Kezar Stadium where John Brodie used to play.

    Parent

    There's still a Kezar Stadium, ... (5.00 / 1) (#140)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:50:09 PM EST
    ... but it's since been significantly downsized to 10,000 seats, and hosts mostly high school sports such as football, soccer, track and field and lacrosse, along with a few community events.

    The old Kezar Stadium, which the one that you remember, was actually demolished in June 1989. The present smaller facility was build on its footprint, but shifted several degrees in order to move it away from Frederick Street, and a replica of the old stadium's West Arch was rebuilt on the approximate site of the original.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    I went to Niner games (none / 0) (#183)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:55:38 PM EST
    ...at Kezar in the '60s.  My mom knew about a disabled veteran who got to go to the games with special seating because of his wheelchair, and he needed someone to drive him and push the wheel chair.  In exchange for driving him and pushing the chair, well, great seats at Kezar.

    Might have been a dream gig, except the dude was a monstrous asshole.  He had been permanently crippled in WW II, he smoked constantly and drank constantly, and he put cigarette burns on the dash of my mom's car.  His drunken bitterness was a black cloud over each excursion and made empathy for his obvious issues difficult at best.

    Parent

    We saw the Rams play the 49ers in Kezar in 1970. (none / 0) (#198)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 04:27:17 AM EST
    It was the Niners' last season there, and it was the only time I ever got to see the place during an event. The Rams won that game in rather convincing fashion, but San Francisco went on to win the NFC West that year.

    Parent
    Mid 80's, lived on the corner on (none / 0) (#139)
    by nycstray on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 09:48:35 PM EST
    H&A :)

    Parent
    Neighbors with Mrs. MKS..... (5.00 / 1) (#143)
    by MKS on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:45:37 AM EST


    Parent
    Ron Rand Ru (none / 0) (#97)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 08:56:57 AM EST
    its not a vocal exercise

    http://tinyurl.com/ktxz5eo

    Howdy since you know how to link (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:04:41 PM EST
    can you please do so instead of the tiny urls. I'd rather keep the tiny urls to a minimum, for those that are just clueless and can't figure out linking. They don't look good and it's not conversational because the link isn't in the sentence.

    Parent
    For some reason (none / 0) (#179)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:27:12 PM EST
    my iPad has been freezing when I try to link the real way.  I've tried to get around it.
    I will try harder.

    Parent
    Interesting info onC&L on TPP (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 02:31:55 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/k7wzrfn

    The "fast track" trade bill introduced last week by Sens. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) has a number of problems. It sets aside Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution and essentially pre-approves the secret Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) before the public and most of Congress even sees it. Unfortunately, the Senate bill does not specify firm and sufficient objectives to make TPP a trade bill that could work for 99 percent of Americans.

    Rep. Sander Levin (D-Mich.), ranking member of the House Ways and Means Committee, on Thursday offered an alternative, the Right Track for TPP Act of 2015. (Summary here, full text here.) This bill is a fast track process for doing trade right -- or at least for modifying the secretly negotiated TPP so it can be somewhat palatable to more of us than just the 1 percent.

    Unfortunately, the House Ways and Means Committee's chairman, Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), ruled the substitute measure "out of order," reported The Huffington Post.

    More at the link.   Good read.

    Please (none / 0) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 03:17:40 PM EST
    you walked right into it.  

    Obama breaks promise again (none / 0) (#136)
    by McBain on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 07:53:35 PM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/p7vfbun

    7 years in a row he fails to use the word "genocide" to describe the killing of 1.5 million Armenians 100 years ago.  He's not the only one, many leaders, people don't want to piss off Turkey.

    This isn't a big issue for me. I stopped trusting politicians to keep their word long ago.  But I do want to recommend a pretty good movie that talks about the Armemian Genocide...... "Ararat".  Anyone see it?  Atom Egoyan has made several interesting films (Exotica, The Sweet Hereafter, Felicia's Journey....and this one.)

    Yes. We can't offend (none / 0) (#142)
    by lentinel on Fri Apr 24, 2015 at 11:36:26 PM EST
    Turkey.

    Courage and intellectual integrity are not hallmarks of government.

    And, of course, Turkey could come back and mention that the genocide inflicted on the Native Americans.

    No. That wouldn't be fair. Calling it genocide.

    Tell you what, Turkey, let's just call it enhanced life removal and call it a day.

    Parent

    I think "Ararat" is a very good film. (none / 0) (#144)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 01:03:14 AM EST
    Most people who are familiar with the events of 1915 are under no illusion that the crimes inflicted en masse upon the Armenian population was anything other than a genocide.

    Incidentally, the "1.5 million Armenians" you cite was actually the entire population of Armenians who were then living in the Ottoman Empire, and who resided across much of eastern Anatolia from the Russian border in the southern Caucasus Mountains to the eastern Mediterranean coastline in and around the port city of Adana.

    While ethnic Turks killed an estimated two-thirds of the Ottoman Empire's Armenian population-- or about 1 million people -- during the 1915 atrocities, it should be noted that there were also significant incidents of ethnic cleansing-related violence targeting Armenian citizens in the empire during the period just prior to the outbreak of the First World War.

    The immediate catalyst for much of this violence was likely the Ottoman Empire's loss of 85% of its southeastern European territories in the period between 1890 and 1912, which forcibly displaced nearly two million Turkish Muslims, a good number of whom were subsequently relocated to eastern Anatolia. Not surprisingly, given how they had just been summarily expelled from their own homelands in the Balkans, most of these new arrivals held a very dim view of Eastern Orthodox Christians.

    Thus, the Armenians provided a proximate and readily available scapegoat for ethnic Turks' own mounting frustrations with European Christendom, which quickly resulted in a huge resurgence of militant Turkish Muslim nationalism during the first decade of the 20th century. This, in turn, culminated in the violent overthrow of Ottoman Sultan Abdul Hamid II by Mustapha Kemal Atatürk and his fellow "Young Turks" in April 1909.

    This bloody coup led directly to one of the worst pre-genocide pogroms conducted against Armenians, the infamous "Adana Massacre," which also took place concurrently in April 1909. Entire neighborhoods of that city's Armenian Quarter were put to the torch by ethnic Turks, and its inhabitants were either killed or driven north into the surrounding countryside. The death toll is estimated to have been upwards of 30,000 victims.

    So actually, the horrible events of 1915 can be considered the culmination of years of systematic discrimination by the empire's ethnic Turkish residents, which specifically targeted Armenians and naturally led to rising ethnic tensions between the two peoples. What prompts Western skittishness about calling out the Armenian genocide for what it truly was, is that fact that the aforementioned Mustapha Kemal Atatürk is also considered by the Turkish people to be the founding father of the modern Republic of Turkey.

    Alone among the losing Central Powers in the First World War, Turkey under Atatürk's leadership was the only one that later compelled the Allies to return to the bargaining table and rescind its initial punitive demands which had left the country in a rump state. The 1923 Treaty of Lausanne restored Turkey's control over the Dardenelles and set its present national boundaries where they are today.

    For Turkey to formally recognize that the 1915 crimes against the Armenian people constituted a genocide, it would also have to acknowledge its founding father Atatürk's direct complicity in having facilitated the events which led to the tragedy. And that perceived blow to its collective national ego is probably the primary stumbling block toward gaining any such admission of culpability from them.

    Further, because of its strategic location in the Middle East, coupled with its prominent status as a major regional power, Turkey's NATO allies tend to tread very lightly whenever broaching the particularly touchy subjects of that country's Armenian and Kurdish populations, especially now when we're presently dealing with all the problems in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Ukraine.

    All that said, this situation is really nothing new or unique in the overall course of world affairs. After all, look at how long it's taken our own country to finally acknowledge and even attempt to address the breadth and scope of our own crimes against humanity, which were inflicted upon so many of our own various indigenous peoples.

    (Out here in the islands, Native Hawaiians are increasingly incensed over their virtual exclusion from any discussions and decisions regarding the disposition of astronomic research facilities atop Mauna Kea, a site which many Hawaiians consider sacred. We're presently in a protracted period of indigenous militancy, in which they're willing to directly confront the establishment through civil disobedience and risk mass arrest. Personally, given our country's rather sorry history in Hawaii, I can't say as I blame them. In fact, I support many of their demands.)

    And only now is the United Kingdom finally beginning to grapple with its troubled and complicated legacy in Ireland, which led to Queen Elizabeth II's historic visit last year to Dublin, and her formal acknowledgement of her nation's longstanding responsibility as the primary source for much of the pain and suffering endured over the centuries by its island neighbor.

    Sometimes, such protracted and outstanding grievances between various peoples of the world can take generations to untangle and finally resolve in a mutually agreeable and satisfactory manner.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Baa waa waa (none / 0) (#159)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 11:17:12 AM EST
    Dog the Bounty Hunter link

    Even admits the GOP is full of jokers. The ladies on Fox have a meltdown.

    I saw that (none / 0) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 11:32:02 AM EST
    pretty great.  Enpven if the reasons for his support may not sit well with the commenters here.

    Parent
    I'm nearly certain, (none / 0) (#161)
    by Reconstructionist on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 11:45:30 AM EST
     but lack "hard evidence" she never said: "if they keep doing it, we'll make it a parking lot."

        I know how much some here hate claims not backed up by hard evidence, and it is possible the Dog and Hillary were once  chatting privately over drinks when she told him that, so I apologize to those who deem it baseless innuendo for me to say his statement is untrue.

    Parent

    Strange place to draw the line (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by Yman on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:12:09 PM EST
    You have no evidence (hard or otherwise) for any of your claims, so why stop with the Bounty Hunter's statement?

    Parent
    Must have (none / 0) (#163)
    by FlJoe on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 11:52:31 AM EST
    been in some of those deleted e-mails, darn now we can never prove it. Probably even consulted with Yosemite Sam about the mining deal. Watch out boy's, she'll chew you up.

    Parent
    ha ha (5.00 / 2) (#166)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:14:24 PM EST
    I can't believe the number of people that fell for that uranium story. Now the facts are all out it happened before Hillary even became SOS and had to go through 7 separate agencies for approval and the State of Utah. So according to these conspiracy wackos the Clintons not only controlled Obama, they controlled all the agencies and then the state of Utah was under their control too.

    I guess there's no limit to how many times desperate people will jump on something and then sit there with egg on their face because they are so obsessed with whatever they can't wait for the facts to come out.

    Parent

    Hillary is a closet Mormon (none / 0) (#197)
    by MKS on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 01:24:56 AM EST
    Did you not know that?

    Parent
    Quit giving oculus ideas! (none / 0) (#202)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun Apr 26, 2015 at 09:22:52 AM EST


    Parent
    Ya think (none / 0) (#164)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:10:39 PM EST
    still it was fun to watch the fox ladies squirm.  

    Parent
    What I hate about panel discussions, (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by NYShooter on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 11:38:01 PM EST
    and, it's certainly not restricted to only right wing programs.

    First, It's the general complaint of the disrespectful, confusing way in which panelists talk over each other, thereby missing the point either one is trying to make.

    Second, for some inexplicable, mysterious reason, they think that, maybe if they raise the octave volume of their comment, their yelling/screaming louder will get their point across.

    Third, since most of these panel-type programs have a person who looks to be a moderator, why does he/she allow this unintelligible screeching to continue uninterrupted?

    Fourth, and finally, why does it always seem like the comment, or answer, I'm really interested in hearing, is the one that's totally garbled by the noise. And, when it's so obvious that the comment/answer wasn't heard/understood by anyone, why doesn't the "moderator, or commenter, him/herself ask to have it repeated?

    Just one example from the Dog Video:  

    Dog had just stunned the Fox ladies by, sort of, coming out for Hillary as his preference to become President. Thru their shock (and tears) they sobbed, "why, Dog, why? And, Dog began answering (an answer I really, really wanted to hear, and what would have been the most critical answer for his Hillary preference) saying something about how critical these times are/something about ISIS, and, well I couldn't make anything out of his answer, and which, apparently they didn't want to continue.

    Parent

    Hey ... even some evidence (none / 0) (#172)
    by christinep on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:03:17 PM EST
    "Some evidence" would be important, don't ya' think?  Very few things, after all, have to be all or nothing ... it is just that it would be nice to start with some evidence when claims/suggestions of claims are raised against anyone (even Hillary Clinton.)  Of course, if we are only engaging in philosophical or speculative conjecture and other forms of imagination, then factual undergirding in the form of some evidence=-hard or not--really isn't needed for the angels and top-of-a-pin dance.

    Parent
    Dog is terrific, (none / 0) (#176)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:21:27 PM EST
    I've known him and Beth for decades.

    Parent
    Yeah, when it comes to insightful (none / 0) (#169)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 12:37:48 PM EST
    political commentary, the Dog is my go-to guy.

    he's smart and informed (none / 0) (#177)
    by Jeralyn on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:24:32 PM EST
    He and Beth have done a lot of legislative advocacy -- you may not agree with him but there's no need to knock him. Plus, I don't allow commenters to insult my friends, and he's a friend.

    Parent
    I was just kidding the people who were questioning (none / 0) (#180)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 03:40:31 PM EST
    What he said about Hillary.  Whatever his trials and travails, I've never gotten the sense that he's a lightweight in the brain department.

    Parent
    Both Duane and Beth Chapman are very smart. (none / 0) (#194)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 09:38:43 PM EST
    They live in my neighborhood in east Honolulu, and he used to work out at the same gym I do, although I have not seen either of them in quite a while.

    Parent
    iPad linking problems (none / 0) (#184)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 04:06:39 PM EST
    i have been having this for a while.  When I open the linking box over the comment box like I always have it freezes.  All I an do at that point is to close the browser and open a new one.
    I'm wondering if any one else has seen this problem and how you dealt with it.  I have tried everything I know but deleting chrome and reinstalling it.  I would like to avoid that to keep my links.
    Maybe aanother different browser like Firefox.  Any Favorite browser suggestions for iPad ?

    Who's watching (none / 0) (#185)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 04:16:38 PM EST
    nerd prom tonight?

    (This is really a linking test I just downloaded a chrome update)

    Parent

    Ignore previous (none / 0) (#186)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 04:20:39 PM EST
    I seem to have figured it out.

    But it's still a pain.  I can't have two pages open when I do it.

    ???

    Parent

    Well, I thought (none / 0) (#187)
    by MKS on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 04:50:35 PM EST
    that would be a link to Nerd prom.

    Parent
    It's on CSPAN (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 04:53:21 PM EST
    starting at 5 and MSNBC starting at 8

    Parent
    And online (none / 0) (#189)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 04:56:45 PM EST
    or on your phone

    Parent
    I use Chrome. Just (none / 0) (#195)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat Apr 25, 2015 at 10:55:51 PM EST
    don't open more than 2 or 3 tabs at a time when you use it on the iPad.

    Parent
    Thursday Open Thread | 190 comments (190 topical)