home

Thursday Night DNC: I'm With Her

Update: The theme: We are Stronger together.

Hillary did what she needed to do. She was Presidential, confident, experienced, committed, and determined. It's so easy to picture her as Commander in Chief.

Her ending: The world is watching. Let's be stronger together. Let's look to the future. Let's build a better tomorrow for our children.

The crowd erupts. Tim Kaine joins her on stage. Then Bill. Donald Trump must feel like chopped liver right now. He should -- that's all he is.

Highlights below:

"I am not here to repeal the Second Amendment. I'm not here to take away your guns." I'm here to keep you from being killed by someone who shouldn't have a gun in the first place. [More..]

Here's the sad truth. There is no other Donald Trump. This is it. He doesn't get it: America is great because America is good. Donald Trump is offering empty promises.

Update: Here's Hillary: I like her white pantsuit, it's crisp, fresh, and clean. A new start.

Bill and Chelsea look so proud they could burst. "And Bill, that conversation we started in the library 45 years ago, it is still going strong." The crowd chants "Hillary."

She says Tuesday night she was go glad to see her "campaigner in chief" was still on the job.

She thanks Bernie Sanders. Bernie's in the audience. His tan is gone, his face is red. He looks really uncomfortable. His wife is smiling and happy though. She claps for Hillary. She tells his supporters she's heard them. [More...]

Contrary to pundit predictions, she does mention Donald Trump. She talks about his fear-mongering and divisiveness. Instead of morning in America, he goes to midnight in America.

He wants to build a wall and keep out people who have already been here and contributing.

The crowd is chanting "Hillary" again.

She says we are stronger together. We are not weak. Don't believe anyone who says "I alone can fix it." Those were actually Donald Trump's words in Cleveland. They should set off alarm bells. Isn't he forgetting first responders, police, doctors, mothers who lost children to violence. he's forgetting every last one of us. Americans don't say I alone can fix this. We say we'll fix this together.

Our constitution was written to ensure no one person had all the power.

We're fighting for a country where love trumps hate.

It is with determination and confidence and boundless (something) that I accept your nomination for President of the United States.

"I get it, that some people just don't get what to make of me." She says her family didn't have their names on big buildings. But they were builders of a different kind. They built better lives and future for their kids. Her grandfather worked in the mills. Her dad made it to college and was in the Navy. He was a small business owner (draperies.) Her mother was abandoned by her parents at a young age. She was on her own by 14 and helped by others. The lesson: No one gets through life alone. She mentions her Methodist faith.

We must keep supporting Israel's security. (Cheers.)

She promises a new job plan in her first 100 days. She says she and Bernie will work together to make college tuition free for the middle class and debt free for all. A four year degree should not be the only path to a good job. We will help people learn skills to make a good living.

We are going to pay for every one of these programs. How? Wall St and the super rich are going to start paying their fair share of taxes.

She's worked across the aisle before and she'll do it again as President.

Trump's economic record: Atlantic City: Some contractors lost everything because Trump refused to pay his bills. Remember what Obama said last night, don't boo, vote.

What part of Put America first makes him manufacture Trump ties in China, not Colorado. More examples, and she says, putting America first means making things in this country, not other countries. Chants of Hillary again.

Security: We are stronger when we work with our allies around the world and taking care of our veterans at home. Her plan for ISIS is airstrikes and helping local forces on the ground. Donald says he knows more than anyone about ISIS. "No, Donald, you don't." She praises our military. "Our president should respect the men and women who risk their lives and serve their country."

"Do you really think Trump has what it takes to be commander in chief? He can't even handle the rough and tumble of a presidential campaign. A man who can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." Elizabeth Warren is on her feet, smiling and clapping.

Update: The Hillary biopic is good. I recognized Morgan Freeman's voice right away (it's unmistakably unique.) I really liked her striped blue shirt.

Original Post:

It's finally Hillary's night to shine at the DNC. On the car radio, I kept switching back and forth between CNN, MSNBC and Fox and they were, as usual, all filled with bad punditry minimizing Hillary.

On every station people pointed out speech-making is not her forte, so don't get your hopes up. She's no Obama. The one person who I heard stick up for her said she'd do a good job if for no other reason than she wanted to impress her granddaughters. Really? They are babies, they won't know tonight if she booms or busts.

This is hardly Hillary's first rodeo. Speculation she's nervous or won't meet expectations is absurd. She's had this speech ready since 2007. She's speaking to Democrats tonight, she has their vote. The excitement will be huge and I hope it's contagious. It should make the whole country realize Trump is a peanut compared to her.

I fully expect Hillary to be inspiring and confident tonight. I think her speech will showcase her experience, her readiness to handle any situation, her decades of public service, and her ability to be tough when appropriate but also compassionate and caring.

I wish she would come out say, "This is mine. I earned it" -- because it's true. But of course, she won't.

Run, Hillary, Run. You've got this.

< Thursday Night Open Thread: Non-Election Edition | Jabhat al Nusra in Splits From al Qaida and Changes Name >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    The moral defibrillators of our time! (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:05:40 PM EST
    This guy is great.

    A force of nature (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:47:56 PM EST
    Kareem! Ha. He's already got on the best joke (5.00 / 6) (#4)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:09:47 PM EST
    of the convention.
    'I'm Michael Jordan....naaa...I just say that because I know Donald Trump can't tell the difference.'

    This is powerful (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:13:36 PM EST
    Perfect response to the islamophobia

    Amazing (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:18:16 PM EST
    You haven't sacrificed anything (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:21:44 PM EST
    Gut punch (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:21:58 PM EST
    I'll lend you my copy (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:27:50 PM EST
    Of the constitution.  Perfect.

    Parent
    Gen Allen is something to see too (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:31:45 PM EST
    Makes it clear I would not make it in the military. I'd pass out if I had all that force of will  aimed at me

    Gen Allen (none / 0) (#111)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:53:17 PM EST
    Would you prefer to be his friend? Or his enemy? :)

    Parent
    I admit I was wrong last week when (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:43:09 PM EST
    I said they should not mention Trump at all at the convention this week. I think it has been a good mix of positive Dem values, praise of Hillary,  and attacks on Trump.

    Tweety said something (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:47:12 PM EST
    I actually might agree with.  That Trump might be the best thing that ever happened to Democrats.  

    He's made them remember who they are and what they believe.

    Parent

    Well for once they can say it without being (5.00 / 3) (#18)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:51:24 PM EST
    accused of just copying Republicans.

    Parent
    I like Chris Hayes' take on it (5.00 / 3) (#37)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:43:17 PM EST
    It feels like a majority coalition

    Parent
    Bernie Bros (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:48:55 PM EST
    booing Medal of Honor recipient.

    Bernie spent months fighting against the "fringe" label.   His movement is dissolving.

    Yeah, really classy there. (5.00 / 6) (#19)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:52:20 PM EST
    Like the guy that risked his life was the one that started the war.

    Parent
    The dogs barked. The caravan passed. (5.00 / 2) (#42)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:51:54 AM EST
    And in the process, the BernieBros self-marginalized. They're now left standing in the road while everyone else has moved on -- including Bernie. "Buh-bye."

    Parent
    And the caravan is noticeably bigger (none / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:07:04 AM EST
    now. And with a few barking dogs in it.

    Go figure.

    Parent

    And cats (none / 0) (#55)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:12:46 AM EST
    And Guinea pigs and wombats and emus and flying  squirrels .......

    Parent
    We're all about diversity (none / 0) (#59)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:25:59 AM EST
    My cats just said no (none / 0) (#61)
    by fishcamp on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:08:17 AM EST
    we're not joining the caravan.  We're staying home where life is good.

    Parent
    Cats will be cats. (none / 0) (#64)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:44:47 AM EST
    And that's why we love them.

    Parent
    They'll be perfectly happy to stay (5.00 / 2) (#66)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:53:30 AM EST
    at home just as long as you don't ever tell them to stay at home.

    Parent
    What a load off (none / 0) (#23)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:36:43 PM EST
    now we can get back to thwarting oppressive over-regulation and saving Citizen's United.

    Parent
    Morgan Freeman (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:16:25 PM EST
    Gods own voice.

    Chelsea was pretty great.  Humanized Hillary without being sappy.

    Gee, too bad Dems aren't enthusiastic about (5.00 / 7) (#22)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:30:22 PM EST
    the candidate.

    That was another incredible night (none / 0) (#31)
    by CoralGables on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:32:02 PM EST
    Probably (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:33:28 PM EST
    The best speech she ever gave.

    Parent
    Donald (5.00 / 1) (#30)
    by sallywally on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:31:10 PM EST
    must be apoplectic.

    He was surprisingly (none / 0) (#36)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:37:10 PM EST
    muted in an interview with Greta I heard in the car on the way home. His only complaint about Obama, Biden and Bill's speeches was they didn't mention Islamic Terrorism.

    He should be feeling like chopped liver right now. But he's too much of an egotist. He'll stage another campaign event with under-informed angry young white males and he'll save America from itself.

    Parent

    I guess (5.00 / 3) (#32)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:32:28 PM EST
    There is no question about permission to use the music

    Fun version (none / 0) (#166)
    by Towanda on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:48:49 AM EST
    all the way to the end -- and how it happened.

    Parent
    Golda Meir (5.00 / 3) (#38)
    by MKS on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:49:30 PM EST
    Hillary just radiates strength and smarts.

    and competence! (5.00 / 5) (#39)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:05:31 PM EST
    And compassion and empathy, too! (5.00 / 4) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:59:53 AM EST
    While I listened to Hillary tonight, ... (5.00 / 4) (#46)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 02:03:40 AM EST
    ... the late blues diva Candye Kane's "I'm the Toughest Girl Alive" kept playing in my head. Whenever she'd perform, she'd dedicate the song "to all the tough broads out there, and all the guys -- and gals -- who love them for that."

    And tonight, Hillary didn't just radiate strength. Dare I say it, she looked presidential.

    I'm very proud of my party tonight.

    Parent

    presidential: yes, & then some (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by The Addams Family on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:42:03 PM EST
    also: wearing red Tuesday night, blue last night, & white tonight - cool

    White (5.00 / 5) (#51)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:15:14 AM EST
    Also the color worn by many Suffragettes

    Parent
    And, Geraldine (5.00 / 5) (#76)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:25:27 AM EST
    Ferraro, the historic vice presidential running mate of Walter Mondale (1984) who, at her acceptance speech, wore white.  Miss Ferraro was appointed by President Bill Clinton, US Ambassador to the UN Human Rights Commission, and worked with Hillary Clinton. Another nod, I think, to the scaffolding constructed over time.   A very long time.  

    Parent
    Hillary knows her history (5.00 / 2) (#172)
    by Towanda on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:55:36 AM EST
    so she also knows to use the term "suffragists" -- the preference of almost all American women in the century of struggle.  They did not prefer the suffix that is both a diminutive and gendered (as, after all, they had to have the support of the voters, men, to expand enfranchisement).

    Only a small (if important) number, in the National Woman's Party, founded by women trained in the British movement, used the term used there.

    The depth as well as breadth of Clinton's knowledge of women's history is impressive -- not overt but often embedded in a phrase here, a fact there . . . and well before she became a citizen and then Senator of the state where the movement started.

    Parent

    Trump's supporters are angry because (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by ding7777 on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:08:28 AM EST
    jobs are being exported and foreign workers are given priority for the remaining jobs. Trump imports H-1B workers and Trump exports jobs (Trump ties are made in China...Trump suits in Mexico.... Trump furniture in Turkey...Trump picture frames in India) So why do these angry guys support him?

    Change (none / 0) (#47)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 04:23:55 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/5hzc4c

    Direction of country polling

    Madame Sec is NOT a change agent, has been around for 30 years
    Madame Sec is a continuation of the last 8 years

    Trump promises change...good or bad


    Parent

    Trump's promises are next to worthless (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by ding7777 on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:36:27 AM EST
    (see Atlantic city contractors, Trump U students, investors, etc) No one is forcing Trump to use H-1B workers or to export his manufacturing overseas. If he was sincere, he could have started the change years ago with his own businesses. Hillary is definitely a change agent; the Republican congress is not

    Parent
    Are you therefore advocating that ... (5.00 / 1) (#102)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 03:05:37 PM EST
    ... voters should seek change merely for its own sake? You might ask the people of California how that worked out, when they mercurially tossed out the competent but otherwise boring Gray Davis from the governor's office in a 2003 recall, and replaced him with "The Governator," Arnold Schwarzenegger. We've generally never fared very well when going down that particular road.

    Parent
    Read carefully (none / 0) (#119)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:49:55 PM EST
    I am not advocating anything, just responding to a question.

    Parent
    Trump promises change (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:18:22 AM EST
    is the pheromone-carried message traveling around the right wing ant hill.

    Worker ant Jim has already repeated it here a few times.

    News Flash: Every campaigning politician since the beginning of recorded history has "promised change"..improvements..a more cohesive, sustainable arrangement..

    Trump promises change is a grunt that cavemen would remember if they were still here. Maybe you should shorten to Trump Promise Change.

    Parent

    And???? (none / 0) (#145)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:27:49 AM EST
    Obama promised change in 2008.

    When asked why Trump has supporters, despite his being an idiot blowhard, he will bring change. And they are willing to roll the dice.

    Madame Sec will not bring change, as they see it.

    So whats your point?


    Parent

    You made my point (none / 0) (#153)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:45:22 AM EST
    he's an idiot blowhard supported by idiot blowhards so idiotic that they don't recognize that he's an idiot blowhard.

    So we're back to Donald's "change" for it's own sake, which is even more idiotic. If that's possible.

    Parent

    That (none / 0) (#156)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:00:31 AM EST
    In a nutshell, was the 2008 campaign,

    Hope & Change

    Well, for the Trump supporters,

    Same message

    Parent

    I get it.. (none / 0) (#182)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:21:45 AM EST
    you're willing to risk Anything, including an overgrown, immature, bloviating, self-absorbed frat boy as President as long as there's a slender hope for less "Big Government" regulation and a chance to get your kicks before the whole sh*t house burns down, as Jim Morrison said.

    Not exactly the farsighted Native American looking seven generations into the future, but then libertarianism isn't for the faint of heart..
     

    Parent

    right....a change back to the past (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:26:55 AM EST
    I

    Parent
    They are absolutely gushing (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:15:22 AM EST
    About the dem convention today on morning Joe.  Best convention ever....ripped Reagan optimism from the republicans....etc etc.

    This is great (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:26:17 AM EST
    NYTimes:  Donald, why did your convention suck?

    Donald:  Asked about the differences, Mr. Trump said he could not speak to them with much specificity, because "I didn't produce our show -- I just showed up for the final speech on Thursday." (He acknowledged that he made other appearances while the convention was going on, including on O'Reilly, but said they weren't a distraction from the convention because they were unannounced and "nobody even knew" he would be appearing.)

    LINK

    What happened to THE GREATEST CONVENTION EVAH!!!!

    Wow. (none / 0) (#104)
    by sallywally on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 03:36:04 PM EST
    Nothing is his responsibility. Except his being the original one to suggest whatever Hillary says are her ideas...

    Parent
    That is (none / 0) (#109)
    by sallywally on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:44:47 PM EST
    nothing is his responsibility except him claiming to have orginated all of Hillary's ideas.

    Parent
    I knew what you meant (none / 0) (#110)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:47:57 PM EST
    And yeah.  That answer has been getting a lot of laughs today.

    Parent
    We were told back in the 90's (5.00 / 11) (#67)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:05:12 AM EST
    I was just watching a female news reporter doing an interview and really pushing on the trust issue. And it made me remember just why Hillary got the "B" reputation. It was because she did not stay home and bake cookies but rather made things happen for the betterment of the people. Unfortunately, sorry men, you did not like that and gave her the title. Maybe some of you can remember that if she had been a man, she would have been congratulated on her  successes.

    I was one of those females who bought into the rhetoric until I realized she had not done anything wrong. Men in power just did not like woman in power. We tend to forget that it really was only a few years back that we got our first Congresswomen, our first Senator, and now, first woman President hopefully. This is a big thing.

    I am not blaming the men of the world. I am not man bashing. It was the times and they did not want a woman being considered equal. It was not the way they had been raised. Mom made home decisions and Dad made the 'real' decisions. In my house, both my parents had careers. In fact, I remember my Mom being the decision maker. And even though she had broken the glass ceiling, she still thought Hillary was pushy because the men in DC did not want Hillary in their club. Look back at those times. Some of those legislators were pretty long in the tooth but still carried the power of decision makers. They got elected and were there forever. I remember when a guy school mate explained that Hillary was not as bad as they said. It took a while but I am glad I was able to see through the cigar smoke.

    My love of politics began when I stayed up all night with my Mom waiting to find out if JFK had made it to the top. She really liked him. He was dashing, smart and smiled a lot in a non threatening way. He also had a wife who made him look even better. People loved her in Paris and she even spoke the language. That was a time of a breath of fresh air in politics. But Jacqui was eye candy. Even the good ol boys loved her, as long as she did not want their job. She raised the kids took us on a tour of the White House, had style and always looked divine. I wanted to be her.

    So my point is that Hillary got the bad titles because men must have realized she was not going away. She was a threat and they might have liked and respected hardcore men but they did not want a hardcore woman in their politics. Thankfully things have changed. Young women do not remember that there was a time not so long ago that things were different. It was not so long ago that women were not able to break that glass ceiling. We have a few retiring this year who had the guts to run for office and take away that threat. But Hillary still has that label on her from when she tried to get things done and she was called the B word. I really hope she makes it for all the girls in the world who burn their cookies.

    I wish I could give this a 10 (5.00 / 5) (#69)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:22:07 AM EST
    As someone who has watched Hillary for decades.  It's so true.

    Parent
    I would add (5.00 / 3) (#70)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:23:38 AM EST
    She is going to be a history making president in ways that have nothing to do with gender.

    Just MO

    Parent

    It Was Actually (5.00 / 3) (#79)
    by Jane in CA on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:37:46 AM EST
    the obvious threat she posed to the old Dem Guard (i.e. Moynihan, Kennedy, et al) that made me wake up and start paying attention to her.

    I've followed her career since, and she has never let me down. I donated several thousands of dollars to her 2008 campaign, and when she sent us all an email asking what we wanted from her when she conceded (I'm sure most of you here also got that email), I simply said I didn't want to be touched for funds for Obama EVER. I never have been. Ever. Amazing.

    Parent

    The Kennedys (5.00 / 2) (#97)
    by smott on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 02:23:22 PM EST
    So pointedly not supporting her was hugely disappointing to me.

    Especially as Ted's Medicare for All plans were very much closer to what Clinton was advocating than what Obama wound up getting through.

    Really knocked a hole in my respect for Ted, and Caroline.

    Parent

    I'm not a Caroline Fan (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by Jane in CA on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 04:56:38 PM EST
    Apart from the base ingratitude she showed a presidential couple who took a lot of heat for using US resources to recover her brother's body, her hypocrisy was front and center for me.

    She supposedly co wrote a book on the fourth amendment and privacy back in the 80's. I read it then and found it well written and thought-provoking. Then she went off and supported Obama without a single word when he helped gut our fourth amendment rights with his "yes' vote on telecom immunity. I expected some sort of explanation as to why she was supporting the candidate who was voting against one of her deeply held beliefs, instead of the one who voted against it, but ... crickets.

    And then that egregious sense of entitlement -- "vote me into Hillary's former seat, but don't expect me to campaign for it." That struck me as being a little bit ... shameful. Little Miss Entitlement. I don't like her at all. And I admired her up until 2008 -- not in a profound way, but I admired the way she articulated and lived her beliefs -- the right to privacy and her commitment to the fourth amendment were things I'd always associated with Caroline right up until her silence on Obama's telecom vote. And -- of course -- the press never asked her a single time about this dichotomy.    

    Parent

    Robert Kennedy Jr supported (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:43:02 AM EST
    Hillary in 2008

    Parent
    BarnBabe, I join (5.00 / 3) (#83)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:29:15 PM EST
    the Captain with my "5" to give your comment its deserved "10."  

    Please permit me to add my thoughts:   The traditional way to the White House, either for a Democrat or Republican, has been to demonstrate that they have national appeal, can attract and raise a lot of money to finance both a primary and general election campaign, satisfy party big shots that they can do the job, and be able to present a persuasive background of expertise and expertise in government--both in domestic and foreign affairs.

    They gain loyalty by being there for local races, from governor to sheriff. This is the way it has been done, with money raising intensified, unfortunately, after Citizens United, unless, the loser path of unilateral disarmament is taken.

    Those were widely accepted indicators of likely success. And, Mrs. Clinton followed the rules, the route of males before her, and did so as the cliched but illustrative saying points out--- as Ginger Rogers danced.  Curiously, the tradional male route has become a corrupted one, just in time for Hillary Clinton.

    Much is said, all of it meritorious, of what Hillary Clinton's  nomination and election to president means to women and little girls.  But, what it should mean to men and little boys must not be overlooked.

     As Mrs. Clinton said, "when any barrier falls in America, it clears the way for everyone."  And, for little boys to see or learn about presidents who look like their mothers as well as their fathers, will crumble a destructively restrictive  barrier.  

    Parent

    Hah. Good point. (none / 0) (#118)
    by FreakyBeaky on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:18:23 PM EST
    Curiously, the tradional male route has become a corrupted one, just in time for Hillary Clinton.


    Parent
    Thanks BarnBabe (5.00 / 4) (#90)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:05:01 PM EST
    It is so very important to remember how this all started, and what the reaction to Hillary was when she came into the White House. The pushback on the first lady having any kind of a non-traditional role was huge, and it was largely sexist. Michelle Obama was very correct in giving Hillary credit for breaking the mold in the modern day (obviously Eleanor Roosevelt was the prototype in this arena), and taking all of the heat so that first ladies that follow can tailor the role to suit their personality and goals. Choices.

    I'm trying to remember my own attitudes at the time. I was not a Clinton supporter, I had been for Jerry Brown and did not think a southern centrist was the right way to go. But I also did not think any Dem was going to win that year. It was a time when it was hard to see anything but GOP presidents in the future- Dems in disarray, and all that.  But dang if they did not pull it off. Hillary immediately started ruffling feathers and challenging the status quo. I really felt sorry for her more than anything else - she seemed like she wanted to break the mold so badly, and she did not have the southern charm of her husband. She is basically a practical midwesterner like me and did what she did with hard work and sheer determination, not by charming the masses.  She did break the mold, but she paid a price she still pays today, with the press and others constantly criticizing. But she keeps on going, and I have to admire that.

    Parent

    Practical Midwesterner. (5.00 / 4) (#92)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:12:53 PM EST
    Maybe that is what I have always liked about Hillary, even we I disagreed with her. She and I have the same Midwestern take on getting things down. Put your head down and move forward. :-)

    Parent
    She not only tossed aside the traditional script for first ladies, but also threw open the door for women in general to be involved in political life, express their opinions and demand a voice in public decision making. And she took no small amount of grief and abuse for such trend-setting in her day.

    Parent
    Me too! (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by Jane in CA on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:01:13 PM EST
    Re: Brown. Jerry Brown was my first presidential primary vote. And no sooner had I decided that I was going to vote third party from now on (after May 30, 2008), did he decide to run for governor again! Which meant I did have to vote Democrat, of course.

    Parent
    Sally Quinn (5.00 / 3) (#96)
    by mm on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 02:15:53 PM EST
    Incredible as this seems, I think a lot of it began when First Lady Hillary Clinton snubbed Sally Quinn, the Belle of Washington DC political salons.

    Sally's longstanding journalistic commitment to the politics of "entertaining," which increasingly serves as an impetus for the entertainment value of American politics, have had surprisingly wide-reaching implications for the powers-that-be. Ever ambitious Quinn would not stop short of the executive branch: Quinn is well-known for her vendetta against Hillary Clinton (as documented in Jaffe's Salon story), which escalated in 1993 after the freshly inducted First Lady snubbed an invitation from Quinn, fittingly, for a dinner party. Quinn had designs to take Clinton under her wing by introducing her to all of the right sorts in Washington.

    Quickly disillusioned, Quinn spent a good majority of her journalistic career defaming Hillary Clinton about everything from her marriage, to her hair cut, to her need for a spiritual reawakening. In a 2008 column for the Post, "Retreat, Hillary," Quinn laments that Clinton (then an accomplished senator and serious contender for president) sacrificed her personal authenticity for the desire to ride her husband's coattails: "When she ran for Senate and won, it was largely because of her marriage to Bill Clinton. When she ran for President, she had the same problem. It was never just Hillary Clinton." Perhaps if Bill had already been president when he and Hillary met or, more realistically, if they had met at a pajama party, would this have convinced Quinn of the current secretary of State's personal "authenticity"? The ironies abound.

      LINK

    And this,


    According to society sources, Sally invited Hillary to a luncheon when the Clintons came to town in 1993. Sally stocked her guest list with her best buddies and prepared to usher the first lady into the capital's social whirl. Apparently, Hillary didn't accept. Miffed, Sally wrote a catty piece in the Post about Mrs. Clinton. Hillary made sure that Quinn rarely made it into the White House dinners or social events.

    In return, Sally started talking trash about Hillary to her buddies, and her animus became a staple of the social scene. "There's just something about her that pisses people off," Quinn is quoted as saying in a New Yorker article about Hillary.

       LINK

    This stuff goes deep.


    Parent

    ... who graduated at the bottom of her class at Smith College, and attained her own lofty social position and status in the Beltway by seducing her married boss, Ben Bradlee, and stealing him away from his second wife Antoinette. Thank you for reminding us what a thoroughly disingenuous and hypocritical wretch she is.

    Parent
    Travelgate - the 1st gate (5.00 / 2) (#105)
    by ding7777 on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 04:47:33 PM EST
    Firing the White House Travel employees turned the White House Press Corp against Hillary. They benefited by Billy Dale allegedly allowing them to declare personal items as legitimate travel expenses.

    Parent
    Vince Foster (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by mm on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 08:00:38 AM EST

    In his torn-up resignation note from a few days before, he wrote "No one in The White House, to my knowledge, violated any law or standard of conduct, including any action in the Travel Office. There was no intent to benefit any individual or specific group. [...] The press is covering up the illegal benefits they received from the travel staff".


    Parent
    Sally Q's self-styled elitism (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by JanaM on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:43:40 PM EST
     has always been annoying.
    She still writes with a clueless snobbery that borders on the hilarious.

    It should tell you all you need to know when she disparages Hillary's real accomplishments considering her own career making assists from those in positions to make her happen or not happen.

    Parent

    Sally Quinn -- a (5.00 / 2) (#164)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:47:26 AM EST
    friend of Andrea Mitchell?  googled and found many references to Mitchell at Quinn's parties.  Does this tie explain why Andrea Mitchell directs her misogyny at Hillary?  

    Parent
    Thank you all for reminding me of more (5.00 / 2) (#124)
    by BarnBabe on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:42:55 PM EST
    When I wrote the piece I was annoyed that the press keeps reinforcing the trust issue about Hillary. And that brought back the memories of when the distrust started. I did not look up the names of some of the old guard that won reelection each year and basically had to be carried out of there. And Sally Quinn. Blast from the past. The Press should remind the public of how it all got started. And I lost respect for Ted Kennedy not sticking with her. Well, that and the car off the bridge. People let him go and yet they do not trust Hillary. And when you ask them they answer, well, I don't know, I just don't.  Well, we do. But you had to be there at the time.

    The night they interviewed some Bernie people there was a young girl at her first convention. She was so annoyed that she had to wait through all the speeches of the night because they had put Bernie last. An insult. Ha. What was funnier was that she did not even realize that time zones would have put Bernie at 7:30 in California when people were home to be able to watch him.  It was a duh moment. Sorry. Heh.

    Parent

    I agree with your opinions (5.00 / 2) (#181)
    by Towanda on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:17:46 AM EST
    but for one fact:  The first woman elected to Congress was not "only a few years back" but a century ago:  The fascinating suffragist Jeannette Rankin, elected to Congress a century ago, in 1916.

    She gave her "maiden" address (the first time that a man did not give a "maiden" address!) not on the floor of Congress but from the balcony of the DC headquarters of NAWSA, the National American Woman Suffrage Association, founded by Anthony and Cady Stanton in 1869 -- when the West also led with the first state with full, federal suffrage, Wyoming.

    By 1916, most states in the West also had full suffrage, when women in Montana turned out to win the seat for Rankin -- also famous as a pacifist whose long service included being the only member of Congress to vote against US entry in both World War I and World War II . . . and for protesting our participation in the Viet Nam War, too, when she was in the front lines of one of the first marches on Washington against that war, by the aptly named Jeannette Rankin Brigade.

    But by 2016 . . . she remains the only woman elected to Congress from that state, and in the century since, only about three hundred women have served from all fifty states -- less than three percent of all members (of both houses) of Congress in history.

    Parent

    Pretty cool little story (5.00 / 5) (#88)
    by CoralGables on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:58:33 PM EST
    Fewer than four years now (5.00 / 2) (#183)
    by Towanda on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:23:11 AM EST
    'til the centennial celebration there and in Seneca Falls of the part of the Constitution that Susan B. wrote for us (in 1876, when it was introduced in Congress . . . but somehow, the men could not figure out how to get it out of committee for more than forty years).  

    Planning is underway, and I hardly can wait to get back to the National Women's History Park and so much more to see in Seneca Falls and nearby -- including Anthony's house.  By the way, it has a great gift shop, where I got my lucky "Failure Is Impossible" socks.  I wore them when watching results of every primary this year.  They worked.

    Parent

    Good Ol' American Satire (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Dadler on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:03:08 PM EST
    Michael Bloomberg (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:40:29 PM EST
    said it best in expressing his support for Hillary Clinton: We need a sane and competent president.

    It may be that we are witnessing a descent into Captain Queeg territory. Trump attacked a Colorado Springs fire marshal for limiting safe occupancy for his rally--ranting about the fire marshal's being a likely supporter of Hillary Clinton, and occupancy limits being why America does not work. But, we will get to the bottom of this: who took the strawberries?  

    Now (5.00 / 1) (#199)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:46:58 PM EST
    Trump is pre-emptively trying to muddy the waters re: debates.  Says their schedule is "rigged" to favor Hillary because two of them are up against NFL games.

    Bets on how long it takes Donald to make outrageous demands, then refust to debate, and blaming HRC for "Chickening out".

    Parent

    People have said for a while (5.00 / 1) (#200)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:53:20 PM EST
    He will refuse to debate.  I can totally see it.  He will be slaughtered.

    He has nothing to lose by refusing.

    Parent

    Well, yes, (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 01:00:31 PM EST
    but ignorance is a Trump debate position. He should be good with his supporters--that Fifth Ave. shooting thing.

    Parent
    The debate schedule was set (none / 0) (#203)
    by ding7777 on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 01:22:09 PM EST
    Of course (none / 0) (#205)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 01:32:35 PM EST
    But the meme now is "IT'S GOING UP AGAINST THE NFL, WHICH HAS HIGH RATINGS AND THIS IS JUST A DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO "HIDE" THE DEBATES SO NO ONE WILL WATCH!"

    Parent
    Saw a discussion the (none / 0) (#198)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:45:40 PM EST
    other day about the possibility of rebublican like GHW Bush and others of that ilk reaching the point where they publicly say they can't suppor this person and will vote for Hillary.

    Nicole Wallace, Bush friend, said it's totally possible.

    If that happens it will be a historic rout.

    Parent

    Bright spot (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 07:15:34 PM EST
    Steve Schmidt, republican strategist on MSNBC, called BS on all the Hillary psychobabble.  Said she doesn't need to "prove" anything.  She needs to offer an alternative.

    As far as the punditry, I have solved that by watching MSNBC, which is HD, until the pundits take over then I switch to CSPAN.  Which is not HD but it is pundit free.

    Nichole Wallace (5.00 / 5) (#40)
    by BarnBabe on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 11:35:35 PM EST
    What a Debbie Downer. She can go back to the GOP now. The thing is, why would she expect a Obama speech? She said so many were excited about the Wed night speeches. And of course she was the first one Brian Williams called upon for an opinion. I thought H did great. Confidence showing. And she got in a lot of substance. My favorite line was referring to Donald being bated by a tweet.

    Parent
    We went HD antenna 2 years ago (none / 0) (#17)
    by Molly Bloom on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:51:06 PM EST
    I don't miss the cable tv news.  I am live streaming it on YouTube. No pundits.

    Parent
    truly surprised & pleased at (none / 0) (#167)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:51:27 AM EST
    mostly positive coverage Thursday night at CNN by Axelrod, Begala, Gloria Borgia & co.  The one Trump rep on the panel would be given opportunity to make a point, and then the others would ignore him and change the subject.  

    CNN also did not interrupt any of the speeches from 9pm on on Thursday - I don't know about earlier as I was unable to watch then.


    Parent

    PBS (none / 0) (#27)
    by FreakyBeaky on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:06:41 PM EST
    CSPAN out here. (5.00 / 3) (#43)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:57:21 AM EST
    We were watching it on PBS until Gwen, Judy & Co. inexplicably cut away from Sen. Cory Booker's speech mid-stream in order to analyze what he was saying while he was still saying it. See ya, ladies. It was nice to watch it without all the analysis and punditry.

    Parent
    I can't take PBS (5.00 / 2) (#57)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:17:08 AM EST
    Shields and Brooks always make me want to throw things.  I have a very expensive tv.

    Parent
    I think David Brooks runs a school (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:21:46 AM EST
    for anal retentives.

    He probably had to run out the room when Rev William Barber was speaking.

    Parent

    PBS was almost as bad (none / 0) (#93)
    by JanaM on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:25:52 PM EST
    as the others. I missed Kareem's opening joke with their unnecessary talking. In addition to talkning over other speakers. I sent a link to C-Span's coversge to a friend in France to watch the convention and I should've taken my own advice.

    Parent
    Even Mika??? (none / 0) (#62)
    by Yman on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:10:33 AM EST
    Or must be killing her.

    Parent
    Even Mica! (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:18:05 AM EST
    Its a strange thing to watch. She got a couple of requisite digs in about emails and trust but had to, faced with a side by side, pretty enthusiastically jump on the Hillary train.

    After watching both conventions and the coverage I'm thinkin Hillary is going to get a bump.  Possibly a significant one.

    Parent

    Mika actually (none / 0) (#168)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:52:06 AM EST
    said she would be voting for Hillary.

    Parent
    I predict the first 3 minutes of her speech will (none / 0) (#3)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 08:06:25 PM EST
    be effusive praise of the other speakers before she says one thing about herself. And then I expect to see that Hillarubthat gave the moving, clear, and determined speech after the CA primary in June, as well as her concession speech in 2008. She's got this.

    Looking forward to Chelsea's introduction of her too. She's got some skills.

    I always like Katy Paerry more than most of (none / 0) (#20)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:02:56 PM EST
    the young pop stars. And such beautiful eyes. I forgot she was out there with Hillary.

    Really starting to feel the 'first female' aspect of the whole thing. Could be a verklempt evening from here on in.

    I started tearing up when the (5.00 / 8) (#24)
    by caseyOR on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 09:37:55 PM EST
    camera showed Bill and Marc, Bill's arm around Marc's shoulders, both looking so intently at Chelsea as she spoke.

    Then again, I have cried every night of the convention for one reason or another.

    I had just about given up hope that I would ever see this day. A woman as the Party's presidential candidate.

    Parent

    Me, too (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:54:05 AM EST
    on the crying.  

    Bill was teared up through Chelsea's speech.

    Parent

    Heck, I've been crying (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by Towanda on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:27:27 AM EST
    since Hill made history in Iowa -- not that media noted it -- and ever since, at every marvelous moment . . . and even just thinking about what was ahead on Tuesday.  

    I made sure to watch C-Span, so as not to miss a moment of the roll call.  I always enjoy the roll call, anyway, for the local pride and bad hats.

    Parent

    How about laying off (none / 0) (#28)
    by jondee on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:11:57 PM EST
    acting like the Roger Stone of the center right and stop smearing thousands of people with the misbehavior of a handful of overwrought nincompoops. Bro.

    And sorry but the substantial part of the movement isn't going anywhere.

    Now can we enjoy the rest of the speech?

    that comment was deleted (none / 0) (#34)
    by Jeralyn on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:33:51 PM EST
    this thread is about Hillary, not trashing Bernie supporters.

    Parent
    Somehow I think Anne Kaine is going to have the (none / 0) (#29)
    by ruffian on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:31:05 PM EST
    most fun in this campaign.

    FYI (5.00 / 5) (#52)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:24:31 AM EST
    it's Anne Holton, who bybthecway, stepoed down as Virginia's Secretary of Education.

    Hmmm....maybe the governor could name her as Kaine's replacement (if she'd like to run in in a special election in 2017 and then again in 2018, when the seat is up again fir a full 6 year term).
    😆

    Parent

    Thanks! I did not realize that (none / 0) (#91)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:11:28 PM EST
    Excellent idea.

    Parent
    Love this idea! (none / 0) (#115)
    by sallywally on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:01:48 PM EST
    Good week for "Demos" (none / 0) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Jul 28, 2016 at 10:34:59 PM EST


    Way too soon (none / 0) (#48)
    by TrevorBolder on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 04:31:57 AM EST
    To tell

    http://tinyurl.com/nw954j5

    http://tinyurl.com/hluynta

    Most likely some event , world wide, or just within this country, will sway the 20% swing voters.
    In 2008 it was the crash, and McCains decision to suspend his campaign. He was up in the polls prior to that decision

    Yes, now starts the 100 days of poll (5.00 / 1) (#49)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:25:18 AM EST
    obsessing. As a numbers gal to some extent,  I actually like this part.

    There will be major events, to be sure. Can't imagine the truly undecided will think any major event is something Trump could handle better than Hillary, but that's just me.  But as per usual there really aren't that many truly undecided. It is a mostly a matter of getting out the vote at this point, in 5-8 key states. Demi are much better poised to do that this year. I'm not that worried.

    Parent

    The four star general (5.00 / 3) (#68)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:20:05 AM EST
    sounded like every halftime speech given by every Notre Dame football coach since the school was founded put in into a blender..

    And I don't mean that as a criticism. It was a thing of beauty in it's way..

    He sounded like he could get the men to launch a second charge on Cemetary Ridge, even after they knew the results of the first assault..

    For some reason I kept imagining him beginning to thunder "outlined against the blue-gray October sky, the four horsemen rode again.."


    Parent

    He is being described (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:24:59 AM EST
    As pretty much the most non partisan person on earth.  Even by republicans.  This will matter.

    Parent
    The funny part (5.00 / 2) (#72)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:40:57 AM EST
    In watching C-SPAN was that I could barely hear any protestors, although occasionally there were a few, and it made me laugh.  Did this small handful of people (mostly from CA) REALLY think that a retired 4-star Marine General was going to quiet down or actually let them get their tantrum heard??

    One reporter on Twitter said that one of the Berners told her he didn't join the chanting and now-busted planned protests in the hall because he felt "microagressions" that were "abusive" from the people around him.  I prefer to think it was his good sense that stopped from making an a$$ of himself.

    Parent

    microaggressions.. (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:49:24 AM EST
    now I know he was from California..

    If they had all attended the sweat lodge ceremony the way they were supposed to, none of that would've happened.


    Parent

    Nah (5.00 / 3) (#74)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 10:53:54 AM EST
    But had he checked his privilege at the door, he might have learned to play well with others, especially when his team lost and the winners were trying to welcome him.

    Parent
    A lot of people are coming in.. (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:03:10 AM EST
    I don't see why it's so necessary to keep venting about the relative few who need a little more time to regain their equilibrium..

    There are much bigger and slimmier fish to fry.

    Parent

    The interesting thing about (5.00 / 2) (#77)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:30:09 AM EST
    Democrats and progressives is that our strength is our weakness..

    There's so much diversity of Independent thought and concerns and questioning and second-guessing and third-guessing that we have trouble organizing into the same kind of angry, lethal swarm that the right started forming into after they started setting up all those think tanks and foundations in the seventies..

    It's like an Isaeli once said: it's not easy having a million prime ministers.

    Parent

    I have been thinking about this (none / 0) (#81)
    by caseyOR on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:58:04 AM EST
    for a long time. Why is it so difficult to form coalitions in U.S. politics? Right now I am not talking about the vaunted bipartisanship to which every elected official gives at least lip service. I mean the willingness of different groups generally on the same side of the political spectrum to come together on specific issues.

    The Democratic Party is a very big tent these days. Not everybody agrees on every issue. Still, i think there are many things on which just about everyone does agree. Why can't we pull together on those things?

    This is not a shot at the Bernie holdouts. I have watched for decades as people refuse to act together on issues of common cause because one side thinks the other side is evil for their stance on another issue entirely. For example, I believe your stand on foreign policy is bloodthirsty. Therefore, I will not join with you to increase Social Security benefits.

    Or, I believe your understanding of how the economy works is at best ignorant, therefor I will not listen to anything you say about fracking.

    Purity tests all over the place.

    Perhaps this is somehow baked into our two party system , the constant dichotomy. Those in parliamentary systems appear to have a better grasp of working in coalition.

    Parent

    Now I can't remember who made this point (5.00 / 1) (#86)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:45:14 PM EST
    Probably Obama - but sometimes you have to compromise even when you know you are 100% right. I think that is what people do not get until they have a lot of attempts at getting something done under their belt. I did not get=it myself until I saw Obama in a action over the last 8 years. I have been as critical of his compromises as anyone, and asked why he does not see what the right thing is. Now I get it.

    Parent
    The 19th Admendment (giving (none / 0) (#202)
    by ding7777 on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 01:18:49 PM EST
    women the right to vote) was passed because many
    factory/business owners who supported the Temperance movement (drunk workers were a drain on the bottom line) knew that if women could vote then alcohol would be prohibited.

    Parent
    I'm done with them (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:35:47 AM EST
    Just pointing out that last night and TODAY, they are the dead weight hanger-ons.

    I am energized and ready to go after this week.

    Parent

    reminds me a bit (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by CST on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:39:18 PM EST
    of how I felt about PUMAs...

    But it's important to remember these people do not represent the vast majority of the left or youth contingent.

    Parent

    One more parting shot.. (none / 0) (#80)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 11:42:14 AM EST
    I knew I should've watched more of those mean-girls-in-the-lunchroom movies back in the eighties..

    Parent
    I would have sworn you did (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by jbindc on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:04:28 PM EST
    You kinda are the resident mean-girl around here and have it down perfectly.

    I'm not sure how saying. "I'm done with the few left hanging on and energized and ready to go," qualifies as being a "mean girl", but I guess you're just projecting.

    Parent

    I've always had a soft spot (none / 0) (#95)
    by jondee on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 02:03:55 PM EST
    for mean girls.

    The make-up....is phenomenal.

    I'm talking neighbors-calling-the-Fire-Department good.

    Parent

    I perceive a significant difference (none / 0) (#94)
    by Peter G on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 01:39:18 PM EST
    between the chants that expressed a refusal to accept the outcome of the primaries, or of the nominating roll call, for which I have no sympathy, and the chants of "No More Wars," which protested the lack of serious debate about the militarism that dominates our foreign policy and wreaks havoc on our federal budget. This is a fundamental policy question, on which, sadly, there appears to be little or no discussion anymore.

    Parent
    Peter, i think (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:03:38 AM EST
    you raise an important issue, which is, however, truly difficult to address in this campaign where Trump is claiming the Dems are ineffectual against ISIS. It would be nice, at some point, to change the conversation to why ISIS is popular in the mideast -- unemployment, absence of upward mobility, etc.  I have also read that one of the main sources of recruits for ISIS is the Bagdad prison.  

    Parent
    Dear God (none / 0) (#98)
    by smott on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 02:31:03 PM EST
    Oh yes "micro aggressions " which likely amounted to "stop rudely yelling at a guy with one leg you arrogant entitled pr*ck" and being "marginalized " as if the arrogant entitled white probably male hipster has any CLUE what that might actually be like. Could there be any better example of clueless whining douchebags?

    Seriously f*ck off to some other party and don't EVER come back.

    Because if you think you will ever get the time of day from the Dem Party ever again, you got one too many participation trophies when you were an arrogant entitled little 7-yr old.

    Now f*ck off.

    Parent

    I agree. I loved it, as someone who has never been (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:42:37 PM EST
    on a sports team or in the military - I imagine that is just what it must be like. Glad to get a little taste of it. I think it will resonate soundly with the intended audience of those who already have the framework internalized.

    Parent
    Actually I got a tiny taste of it 15 or so (none / 0) (#87)
    by ruffian on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:47:28 PM EST
    years back when me and my team were dressed down by a Marine Corps Colonel for wasting the time of his pilots in testing software that was not ready to be tested. Oh boy, did I get the message. I thought I was going to throw up.

    Parent
    Great night for Hillary! (none / 0) (#82)
    by Robot Porter on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 12:17:50 PM EST
    Great week for the Dems.  Even most in the GOP thought so.

    Guess, Donald will have to call Putin again for help.

    ;)

    ... who seems to believe that his recent receipt of a Pulitzer Prize also bestowed upon him the title of "Smartest Guy in the Room."

    Parent
    Obviously Greenwald isn't (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 03:22:43 PM EST
    following Armando on twitter. Minute by minute critique of Morning Joe.

    Parent
    Do you (none / 0) (#108)
    by Jane in CA on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:25:39 PM EST
    have a link, Oculus?

    Parent
    Yes. (none / 0) (#113)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:55:39 PM EST
    Minute by minute ? (none / 0) (#112)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:53:33 PM EST
    Mornng Joe is on 4-7 am eastern time.  What's he say about it.

    Today it was a democratic convention fan club.

    Parent

    The two who host it are in the (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 05:56:58 PM EST
    tank for Trump but maybe seeing the light.

    Parent
    I see the show most days (none / 0) (#117)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:16:29 PM EST
    I know all about the two who host.   This morning was a DNC love fest.

    Parent
    And I would say (none / 0) (#123)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:28:44 PM EST
    They are not particularly in the tank for Trump.  They are n the tank for ratings.  Which in their case means trying their best to keep it a horse race.

    They were gushing about the DNC today.  The will be savaging for being "untrustworthy" tomorrow.  IMO neither of them actually "believe" anything.  They are the male and female archetype of media wh0re.

    But they often have interesting guests.   It's the only mornng TV I can take.  And then only DVRed so I can skip Squints soliloquies and the Meat Puppets vapidity.

    It's my standard StairMaster viewing I do 2hrs in 30 minutes.  (The third hour is almost always a repeat of the 1st hour)

    Parent

    however (none / 0) (#187)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:29:00 AM EST
    on weekends (like today) and many weekdays i put THIS or THIS

    ON A STAIRMASTER LOOOOP

    guess which burns more calories

    Parent

    I have 2000 wats (none / 0) (#188)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:35:06 AM EST
    And no close neighbors

    Parent
    Despite the overwhelmingly (none / 0) (#120)
    by KeysDan on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 06:58:54 PM EST
    positive reporting on Hillary Clinton's acceptance speech, Tweety gives air time to the wingnut Hugh Hewitt who found it to be "serviceable." But, it will not help, he says, because his hero, Trump will win.   Tweety, tended to agree and wondered why Mrs. Clinton did not hire a better speech writer, instead of one that used ordinary words.  Really.

    I saw that (none / 0) (#121)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:00:52 PM EST
    It's humiliating to admit that, but I did.

    Otoh
    There is a pretty interesting conversation on the Russian hacking now.

    Parent

    "Now" (none / 0) (#122)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 07:01:33 PM EST
    Beng about a 15-20 delay so I can skip commercials

    Parent
    I don't know why ... (none / 0) (#130)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 01:10:38 AM EST
    ...MSNBC signed Hugh Hewitt and CNN has Jeffrey Lord. You're never really going to gain any honest insight from the relentlessly partisan likes of those two, given that their rote responses to questions posed to them are so entirely and tiresomely predictable.

    Parent
    Hugh's hairpiece is beyond stupid too. (none / 0) (#133)
    by fishcamp on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 08:17:42 AM EST
    Anecdotal (none / 0) (#125)
    by MKS on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 08:22:33 PM EST
    But interesting.

    There is a guy from Steubenville here for a few weeks.   He comes from steel mill people.  His family are traditional Democrats.   They were thinking about Trump.

    Hillary won them all over.

    I went to junior high and high school with steel mill people in nearby Youngstown.  I know these people.   I think they saw Hillary as strong and tough and plain spoken and valued that.

    pro-gun hillary? (none / 0) (#127)
    by linea on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:04:18 PM EST
    re: "I am not here to repeal the Second Amendment. I'm not here to take away your guns."

    is hillary pro-gun (to the consternation of many progressives and i expect many posters on this site) or does everybody consider this a disengenous wink for votes?

    wait. what was all the "mothers with dead children" about then? now i'm just confused.

    That much is clear (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Jul 29, 2016 at 09:40:40 PM EST
    your snarc aside (none / 0) (#129)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:17:10 AM EST
    i googled hilary's stand on guns and it's pretty worthless. this is as controversial as she gets, "As President, I'll take on the gun lobby and fight for commonsense reforms to keep guns away from terrorists, domestic abusers, and other violent criminals--including comprehensive background checks and closing loopholes that allow guns to fall into the wrong hands."

    wow. she's going out on a limb there.  we already prohibit those people from having guns, we already have background checks. she wants to close loopholes? big woop. you realize this wont make one bit of diffence dont you?  all you people b!tch and moan about guns and this is the big plan? she's gonna "take on the gun lobby" by what? maybe end private gun shows maybe?

    everbody here gets enraged over the gun issue but it's apparently so popular with the voters that hillary is promissing not to take away guns and is offering fairly worthless proposals that wont make a bit of difference. yah, you guys are really hardcore progressives!

    Parent

    Actually, I "realize" no such thing (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 08:38:21 AM EST
    Her position is not a "disingenous" anything - although your question is.  She's not - as the NRA claims - going to take away people's guns or repeal the 2nd amendment.  She is proposing stronger gun control measures, and the fact that you claim they're worthless means absolutely nothing.

    Parent
    No one is going to "repeal" (5.00 / 3) (#176)
    by Peter G on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:01:31 AM EST
    the Second Amendment. That's just dumb. The accusation is intentionally misleading. What we need is not repeal of the Second Amendment but the kind of reasonable regulation of guns that the Second Amendment authorizes. HRC has no more suggested repealing the Second Amendment than she has proposed repealing the First Amendment by her comment that she would support a constitutional amendment to overturn the Citizens United decision "if necessary." Which won't be necessary, since a corrective Supreme Court decision is all that is needed (and can be reasonably expected after HRC gets her first two appointments to the Court).  

    Parent
    Apparently (none / 0) (#144)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:26:21 AM EST
    We have misunderstood this entire discussion Yman.   It's seems there are only two positions

    Conservatives = guns for everyone

    "Progressives" = no guns at all.  Ever.

    It's really so simple.  I feel a little foolish to have gotten it so wrong.

    Now I think I'll just go down and have some pudding.

    Parent

    yes. this. (2.00 / 1) (#154)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:58:31 AM EST
    Progressives = no guns at all.  Ever.

    if that's not right than all you people just need to sit down and stop complaining about the evil gun lobby and how evil guns are and how deranged pro-gun conservatives are. because apparently progressives are pro-gun too and are only interested in very minor tweeks to the current system of mass gun ownership.

    Parent

    Look up the phrase (none / 0) (#165)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:47:57 AM EST
    ... "False dichotomy", then form an argument based on reality and logic.

    BTW - Funny how those "minor tweaks" make the NRA and their supporters go absolutely nuts.

    Parent

    Additionally, and probaly (none / 0) (#148)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:34:58 AM EST
    More importantly, she is not trusted. At all.

    She has earned her trustworthy numbers.

    As a whole politicians are not to be trusted. Obama stated for years he does not have the power to take executive action on immigration. He said he was not a king, yet, 1 year ago, he acted like a king, stating he had to take action because Congress wasn't. Politicians cannot be trusted.
    And Madame Sec  is at the top of that list.  
    She has spoke about Australian gun control laws, and many believe that is what she will try for, if in a position to do so.

    Parent

    "Earned them" - heh (5.00 / 1) (#169)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:52:27 AM EST
    You mean 25 years of wingnut conspiracy theories and faux investigations can do some damage?  You mean when her numbers are artificially higher because she just got through a heated primary?  You mean the woman who is the most admired woman in the world for 20+ years running?

    Heh.

    She has spoke about Australian gun control laws, and many believe that is what she will try for, if in a position to do so.

    Ahhhhhhh ... the old "many believe" gamne.  "Many believe" that man existed with dinosaurs, global warming is a hoax and Elvis is alive.  They have just as much evidence.

    Parent

    And, now reports of (none / 0) (#184)
    by KeysDan on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:26:52 AM EST
    Russia paying people with good English skills to troll the internet on behalf of Trump.  Maybe those skills should be a tip off that they are not true Trump supporters, but still.

    Parent
    Holy hell (none / 0) (#189)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:42:52 AM EST
    There really are Rooskies under the bed.

    Parent
    I don't understand (5.00 / 3) (#191)
    by Repack Rider on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:49:44 AM EST
    "She has earned her trustworthy numbers."

    By being ACCUSED?  How about the fact that every accusation has evaporated under scrutiny?  FOR 25 YEARS.

    It's like Lucy and the football.  "THIS TIME we're going to find a charge that's true!"  And then they don't.  But the endless accusations have planted a seed, which has grown in your brain into a malignant lie.

    Eight tries at a Benghazi conviction, eight exonerations.  The "double jeopardy" clause in the Constitution recognized that the government had the power to charge a person over and over until it got a conviction.  Republicans have obliterated that concept, but they STILL can't pin a parking ticket on her.

    How do you think Donald would fare under eleven hours of questioning, under oath and on live TV, from political opponents?  After Hillary took every question and the interrogators fell over from exhaustion, Hillary got in a round of golf.

    How many politicians have that kind of courage and poise?  Hillary has set the bar for cooperation so high not a single Republican who ever lived, with the exception of Abe Lincoln, could meet it.

    Parent

    OH MY GOD (none / 0) (#151)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:41:38 AM EST
    She would offer to BUY BACK guns to get them off the streets?!?!?

    TO ARMS TO ARMS THE PANTS SUIT IS COMING!!!!!

    Parent

    What snark? (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 08:57:53 AM EST
    i'm sorry (none / 0) (#138)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:08:15 AM EST
     

    Parent
    It all depends (none / 0) (#131)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 05:38:19 AM EST
    Upon the audience that Madame Sec is speaking too.

    That will determine the content of her speech.

    Parent

    And yet, despite your silly claim (5.00 / 2) (#135)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 08:39:39 AM EST
    ... her statement above is entirely consistent with her actual proposals on gun control.

    Go figure.

    Parent

    When running against Obama (5.00 / 1) (#137)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:04:22 AM EST
    "I disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in our country cling to guns and have certain attitudes about trade and immigration simply out of frustration," Mrs. Clinton told an audience in Indiana, according to news reports at the time. "You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl.
    "You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. It's part of culture. It's part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because it's an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter," Mrs. Clinton said.


    Parent
    What's your point? (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:12:13 AM EST
    This is a simple statement of true fact and in no way disagrees with Ymans comment.

    "The Hillary s coming to take your guns" trope has been an expertly spread lie pushed by the GOP and the NRA with the help of useful idiots like we have here.   It's always been bullsh!t.  It's still bullsh!t.

    What she wants, what most people here want is common sense regulation.  Universal background checks, limits on the size of those "murder magazines" and personally I would say repeal of the crazy open carry and stand your ground laws.

    Is some part of this unclear?

    Parent

    The simple point (none / 0) (#143)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:26:07 AM EST
    It was obvious from the above post, but if you want spelled out,
    Running against Obama in 2007, she was appealing to the gun owning Democrats and independents voting in primaries.
    Now, not so much.

    There is background checks, there are limits to magazine sizes.
    On the whole, except for inner cities, gun violence is dropping.
    As for the much publicized mass murder attacks, not 1 law proposed prevents any of them.
    Please be real, Democrats are not proposing legislation to prevent these attacks, it is just to rally their base. It is just too obvious.
    The crazy open carry and stand your ground, have not led to a surge in gun violence.

    Madame Sec has spoke about Australian type laws, which would take guns away from gun owners.

    Parent

    You are not worth my time (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:28:13 AM EST
    But you should provide a link about that Australia BS or shut up about it.

    Parent
    Never mind (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:39:10 AM EST
    I did it for you.
    A "buy back" program sounds a little different than "she's coming to TAKE your guns"

    Doesn't it.  Why it almost sounds like CHOICE is involved

    THE HILL

    Hillary Clinton said a buy back program similar to the one Australia implemented in 1996 is "worth considering" in the United States.

    "I don't know enough details to tell you how we would do it or how it would work, but certainly the Australia example is worth looking at," Clinton said at a New Hampshire town hall on Friday.



    Parent
    And (none / 0) (#147)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:33:17 AM EST
    Milk that "Madame Sec" thing you seem to think is so clever, go some reason, while you can because in 100 days it's going to be Madame President (elect)

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#170)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:54:04 AM EST
    Now try to point to a statement that contradicts that.  Oh, wait ...

    ... you can't.

    Parent

    can you give examples (none / 0) (#139)
    by ding7777 on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:10:52 AM EST
    where Hillary has said different things to different audiences re her positions on gun control

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#141)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:13:21 AM EST
    That's just one f the things DRUDGE and the GATEWAY PUNDIT tell him to say when he's called on his bullsh!t.

    Parent
    yes (none / 0) (#150)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:39:32 AM EST
    politifact.com has an article titled "Fact-checking O'Malley's claim that Hillary Clinton flips on gun issues 'every election."

    hillary apparently "shifted between election cycles, but it wasn't nearly as dramatic as he made it out to be. We rate his claim Half True."

    BUT TO ME the interesting thing to me isnt the alleged position changes but how tame and ineffectual her proposals are. places like detroit are virtual war zones because of handguns and hillary is assuring progressives that she will stop the gun show loophole (where preppers buy second-hand long-guns made in romania or some such thing).

    TO ME it just shows how popular guns are that the democratic presidential candidate promises to support the 2nd Amend and not take away guns and only offers modest ineffectual proposals that barely nibble at the issue.  

    Parent

    Tell us linea (none / 0) (#152)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 09:45:03 AM EST
    When dozens of small children are cut to pieces in their classroom and the congress who is completely owned by the gun lobby refuses to do a single thing, what, as president would YOU do?

    Parent
    Oh stop it (5.00 / 1) (#155)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:00:23 AM EST
    The only way to prevent that from happening...

    Is taking away every single gun

    And thats what scare gun owners

    And no, the Australian government confiscated the guns...a mere technicality

    The Australian Constitution requires just compensation be given for property taken over, so the federal government introduced the Medicare Levy Amendment Act 1996 to raise the predicted cost of A$500 million through a one-off increase in the Medicare levy. The gun buy-back scheme started on 1 October 1996 and concluded on 30 September 1997.[25] The government bought back and destroyed nearly 1 million firearms


    Parent
    Don't pretend to speak ... (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:01:38 AM EST
    The only way to prevent that from happening...

    Is taking away every single gun

    And thats what scare gun owners.

    ... for gun owners.  I am a gun owner and most people aren't duped by the NRA fear-mongering.  They can tell the difference between actual positions/proposals (stronger gun control laws) and confiscating all guns (fairy tale).

    Parent

    Trevor (none / 0) (#161)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:19:08 AM EST
    You can take off the diaper.  No one is coming to take your gun.  Assuming you own a gun.  I do. We are not Australia.  There have been many successful buy back programs in various cities over the years.  I could easily seen a national one.

    I think huge majorities would probably support it.

    Parent

    i dont know (none / 0) (#157)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:04:46 AM EST
    what you think my position on guns is but you're wrong.

    i just recognise that we live in a democracy and that gun ownership is immensely popular.  so popular that the Democratic Party candidate for president reassures the electorate that she supports the 2nd Amend and won't take away anyones guns.

    Parent

    Wait - you mean she points out ... (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:58:51 AM EST
    ... that the NRA and some of its supporters are lying when they make a silly claim to try to hurt her politically?

    And?

    Why wouldn't she?

    Parent

    Thank you both (none / 0) (#158)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:07:50 AM EST
    I feel my point is made

    As D says

    Aloha

    Parent

    i dont belive this (none / 0) (#159)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:12:43 AM EST
    congress IS NOT completely owned by the gun lobby. you mean the org that gives you a hunting magazine and a bumper sticker? politicans dont pass gun control laws because guns are popular with the vast majority of voters. i bet 3/4 or more of the males on this forum have a gun.


    Parent
    CNN (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:15:55 AM EST
    just because that idiotic statement needs a response

    The support for tougher gun laws rose to 55% in the newest poll -- the highest number since just one month after the shootings in Newtown, Connecticut, in January 2013.
    But support for specific gun control measures was very strong, with 92% saying they wanted expanded background checks, 87% supporting a ban for felons or people with mental health problems and 85% saying they would ban people on federal watchlists from buying guns. Among Republicans, that number is even higher -- 90% say they favor preventing people on the terror watch list or "no fly" list from buying a gun. That number is at 85% for Democrats.



    Parent
    my apologies (none / 0) (#162)
    by linea on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:30:36 AM EST
    if the "idiotic statement" comment was directed at somebody else. it's hard for me to tell with the post structure.

    and my apologies for frustrating you. apparently we are coming from completely different assumptions. i read that list and roll my eyes. those "tougher gun laws" dont even look like a bandaid to me. you just need to give up and admit how popular gun ownership is.

    Parent

    Yes, just give up (none / 0) (#192)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:53:57 AM EST
    and let Wayne Lapierre and that even-more-unhinged lunatic from the Gun Owners of America have their way with us. And try to enjoy it.

    Polluting, murder, and jihad are popular, should we give up on doing anything about them too?

    Parent

    And? I have two of them (none / 0) (#174)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:57:29 AM EST
    ... and I want stronger gun laws.  The NRA doesn't speak for me.

    Parent
    I have no guns (none / 0) (#180)
    by TrevorBolder on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:11:24 AM EST
    But "stronger gun laws"
    Need specifics

    we do extensive background checks already

    What can you add to that, other than mental illness checks, but that is a tough area to cover, many might forgo seeking treatment if they lose rights because of it.
    Gun show loophole is a great talking point, how many guns get sold that way, I don't believe there would by many objections to that anyway.
    I believe there are magazine capacity laws in place, in fact my governor signed one such law placing state troopers in violation, lol. Unintended consequences when you let politicians write knee jerk reactionary laws.
    Semi automatic guns are currently legal, and many used for hunting.
    If you want to make them illegal by adding bayonet s, or suppressors, or folding stocks, that won't stop mass shooting deaths.
    Come up with something reasonable, that is not already in place.

    Parent

    She has specifics (none / 0) (#190)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:49:39 AM EST
    We're discussing her proposals since she's the candidate.  My proposals would include her proposals and then some - but they're not relevant to the discussion.  Neither are your baseless claims about what you think would be effective or "reasonable".

    Parent
    Has anyone noticed (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by CaptHowdy on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:11:15 PM EST
    That Trevor, authority on all things Clinton, who is not a gun owner is explaining to gun owners how gun owners feel and what they want and what they "worry" about?

    Thats not most batsh!t thing about this thread do far.  But worth noticing.


    Parent

    I'm sure the gun catechism (none / 0) (#194)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:22:20 PM EST
    has been all laid out for him in whatever uber-libertarian manuscripts he's been devouring while burning the midnight oil..

    Parent
    Not till now.. (none / 0) (#179)
    by jondee on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:06:58 AM EST
    Seriously, I'm still amazed at how I ever survived driving cab at night in the inner city without a gun..surrounded by all those menacing slurpee-drinking young men in hoodies.

    I think guns are like tvs and gps's: the more attached we become to them, the more more vital-for-survival parts of our being atrophy.


    Parent

    Apparently, you missed (none / 0) (#196)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:35:27 PM EST
    this:

    It turns out that the most important voice in the Supreme Court nomination battle is not the American people's, as Senate Republicans have insisted from the moment Justice Antonin Scalia died last month. It is not even that of the senators. It's the National Rifle Association's.

    That is what the majority leader, Mitch McConnell, said the other day when asked about the possibility of considering and confirming President Obama's nominee, Judge Merrick Garland, after the November elections. "I can't imagine that a Republican majority in the United States Senate would want to confirm, in a lame-duck session, a nominee opposed by the National Rifle Association," he told "Fox News Sunday."

    So please do not tell us that:

    congress IS NOT completely owned by the gun lobby. you mean the org that gives you a hunting magazine and a bumper sticker?


    Parent
    "Half true" (none / 0) (#173)
    by Yman on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 10:56:19 AM EST
    Even assuming someone agrees with Politifact's judgment on this issue, you do know that half-true also means half false, right???

    Parent
    Like EVERY OTHER POLITICIAN? (none / 0) (#195)
    by jbindc on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 12:32:51 PM EST
    Including Trump?

    Yes- you tailor your speech to your audience.

    Actually, that's what they TEACH you to do in high school speech classes.

    Parent

    New Poll shows substantial Hillary Bounce (none / 0) (#186)
    by BackFromOhio on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 11:28:06 AM EST
    http://www.rabaresearch.com/

    Nate Silver sent to Armando twitter.

    I hope Hillary's (none / 0) (#204)
    by ding7777 on Sat Jul 30, 2016 at 01:28:31 PM EST
    late October early November ads will include a mosaic of the most memorable speakers

    Parent