home

The Trumps' New York Fraud Case: Trial on Monday?

A state appeals court in New York denied a request by the Trumps to continue the civil fraud trial set to begin Monday. The allegations include that Trump and Trump International and at least two of his children fraudulently lied to lenders and insurers by overvaluing their assets by billions of dollars. The original Complaint is here.

Trump has likely lost the case already, given the Court's grant of summary judgment on several counts last week. The judge also imposed monetary sanctions on his lawyers, for repeatedly making arguments it and higher courts had ruled frivolous. [More...]

The NY Attorney General requested the Court bar the Trumps, including Donald, Donald Jr., Eric and Ivanka, from ever running a business in the state again.

Ms. James had sought to bar Mr. Trump from doing business in New York, in part by canceling certificates that allow his properties to operate there. Justice Engoron granted that punishment, which could have enormous repercussions for the Trump Organization.

For example, Mr. Trump could lose control of several properties, including Trump Tower in Midtown Manhattan and a flagship commercial building at 40 Wall Street. His grip over his Westchester County golf club is also threatened. At one point in his order, Justice Engoron referred to the limited liability companies that he had shut down as “the canceled LLCs.”

I believe Trump has always inflated his financial worth, and that the Trump Organization has lost a lot of money under the so-called leadership of his sons. Legal fees, fines and monetary judgments may be the death knell of his political aspirations.

It's also possible that the revelations that emerge in this fraud trial dampen the enthusiasm of his underinformed, marginalized voting base as it becomes distinctly clear Trump has less than zero in common with them. If the donations dry up, Trump's planned candidacy may as well.

It seems to me that the support for Trump is a shell, a cover for their hatred of the Democrats and the faux-belief that Trump has the ability to wipe them out once and for all.

Nobody likes a con man. Very few voters will nod with approval as he repeatedly uses the Saudi's love for him as an excuse for inflating the value of his properties. Even the least intelligent among us are capable of understanding that if Trump can claim one of his properties is worth $200 million because a Saudi might buy it at that price because he's very popular in Saudi Arabia, then everybody else can use their own fantasy to apply to the worth of their own homes. (The list is endless: the man on the moon may buy my house and I know he loves me so much he'll pay 50 times what I'd get if I just listed it on Zillow").

It certainly won't help if co-defendants in his criminal cases decide they will cooperate and tell the Government's truth at trial because they can't afford the legal fees necessary to stay the course.

Donald Trump may go down with a bang rather than just fizzling out. I just don't see any other outcome. The real question is what will he use as an excuse to bow out: (1) his need to spend time on his legal cases, but don't fret, Ivanka or Donny Jr. will stand in for him in 2028 (2) a newly manufactured health crisis (3) he needs to spend more time with his family or (4) this country doesn't deserve him?

< Hunter Biden Sues Rudy Giuliani | Friday Open Thread >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    WaPo has a neat calculator (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by leap2 on Thu Sep 28, 2023 at 10:25:21 PM EST
    to see how much your house would be worth if the Trump Org owned it. OMDog! My little stucco cottage would be worth 1.1 to $14 million, depending on which inflated properties he was using (Trump Tower, Merde a Lardo, golf courses, and so forth).

    This is slow death for FatNixon, but better (for us) than nothing. There is some pleasure in watching him go down by multiple small cutting.

    Other than paying higher insurance premiums, (none / 0) (#8)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 06:49:41 PM EST

    Which is a negative, what benefit is there in overestimating the value of real estate?

    Parent
    Being able to (5.00 / 3) (#9)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 06:57:01 PM EST
    borrow more money on it

    Parent
    It also (none / 0) (#10)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 06:57:56 PM EST
    has a cumulative effect of raising his "worth"

    Parent
    Are you serious? (none / 0) (#15)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 08:17:58 PM EST

    Where on this planet does a lender accept the borrower's estimate of the value of the collateral asset?  Unless maybe it is such a super lowball estimate that appraisal fees can be avoided safely.

    Every time I've taken a mortgage, the bank does its own estimate. Is your experience different?

    Parent

    Silly (5.00 / 2) (#19)
    by FlJoe on Sat Sep 30, 2023 at 05:32:39 AM EST
    rabbit, the rules are different for the mega rich.

    If Trump had to follow the rules us peons did he would be penniless by now.

    Parent

    The Best Explanation of the Trump Fraud Case (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by RickyJim on Sat Sep 30, 2023 at 11:06:19 AM EST
    that I know about is found in Ross Cohen's posts on Quora.  My take away is that the fraud was that he inflated his net worth to get loans at special rates for billionaires.

    Parent
    For the record (5.00 / 3) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 06:59:47 PM EST
    he also is charged with underestimating the value when it benefited him.  Like insurance.

    Parent
    And (5.00 / 4) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 07:12:35 PM EST
    especially taxes

    Parent
    When you fill (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 07:29:42 PM EST
    out a loan application or an applicaiton for insurance and are not truthful it is fraud. He is charged with both financial and insurance fraud.

    Your post exemplifies what is wrong with conservatives. They think white collar crimes where people are ripped off are just fine. You know this type of thing causes people like you to pay higher taxes and have to bail out banks.

    Parent

    When you fill (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 07:29:42 PM EST
    out a loan application or an applicaiton for insurance and are not truthful it is fraud. He is charged with both financial and insurance fraud.

    Your post exemplifies what is wrong with conservatives. They think white collar crimes where people are ripped off are just fine. You know this type of thing causes people like you to pay higher taxes and have to bail out banks.

    Parent

    Crime? (none / 0) (#16)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 08:29:06 PM EST
    Just who was the defrauded victim that lost money?  

    Is this a victimless crime?  


    Parent

    You are talking nonsense (5.00 / 7) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 09:07:40 PM EST
    trolling because you must be smarter than that.

    Banks do not need to complain about being cheated for fraud to be a crime.

    Parent

    This is (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by KeysDan on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 10:22:04 PM EST
    a civil case (not a criminal case)  between parties involving a dispute with implications for something that is owed. Trump organizations with Trump, Junior, Eric and other officials  have been found by the judge  to have engaged in fraud by exaggerating the value of assets to obtain favorable loans.

     The determination remaining is the compensation and damages flowing from the fraudulent practice which will include, but is not limited to,  the extent of damages to the banks.  The AG has asked for $250 million which is likely a floor.  Also at risk, owing to the ruling of fraud,  is the cancellation of certification or license to do business in the state.

    Parent

    This is a civil case (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Oct 02, 2023 at 03:52:00 PM EST
    but fraud is a crime.  And these very acts of fraud could have been prosecuted but for whatever reason were not.
    But supposedly still might be.

    Parent
    The entire (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Ga6thDem on Sat Sep 30, 2023 at 08:25:30 AM EST
    population of NY was defrauded by Trump's tax fraud. Everybody who holds an insurance policy was defrauded. Since banks have a finite amount of money to loan anybody who wanted to get a mortgage and was denied or anyone who wanted a loan to start a small business was defrauded because Trump overestimating the value of his property took money that could have been loaned to them.

    Dude, the guy has a history of defrauding everyone. He defrauded his contractors. He even stole money from a charity. It is finally catching up with him and you're proving my point that conservatives are fine with fraud.

    Parent

    Yes, fraud (5.00 / 2) (#21)
    by KeysDan on Sat Sep 30, 2023 at 10:50:26 AM EST
    on the part of Trump is no big (or small) deal for Republicans.  The Trump University case, settled for $25 million,  was a fraud case wherein the participants were fleeced in a scam  was A-OK with them.

    Parent
    Lying on a loan application (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Chuck0 on Sat Sep 30, 2023 at 04:25:51 PM EST
    Is fraud. Even if no loan is given or if no one loses penny. Still fraud.

    Parent
    Aloha from Southern California. (5.00 / 5) (#2)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 12:29:21 AM EST
    After listening to the Trumpist / Fox Newsbat side of my family tonight - did you know Trump's indictment is all a plot orchestrated by Hillary Clinton? - let me raise a toast to New York AG Leticia James and wish her and her legal team Godspeed next week. I hope she cleans the Trump family's clocks.

    I agree with comedian Jordan Klepperer. The only way this can end well for the country's sake is MAGA World's complete and utter humiliation. There's just no talking to them anymore, because truth be told, they stopped listening to reason a long time ago. They're living in a parallel universe of their own making and choosing, and we're now at the "f*ck around and find out" stage. They need to see Donald Trump demolished and destroyed right in front of them.

    If they're not stopped right now, things will only get worse, much worse.

    Aloha.

    How about No. 5? (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 12:43:59 AM EST
    Jeralyn: "Donald Trump may go down with a bang rather than just fizzling out. I just don't see any other outcome. The real question is what will he use as an excuse to bow out: (1) his need to spend time on his legal cases, but don't fret, Ivanka or Donny Jr. will stand in for him in 2028 (2) a newly manufactured health crisis (3) he needs to spend more time with his family or (4) this country doesn't deserve him?"

    Donald Trump cops a plea and cuts a deal with special counsel Jack Smith, by agreeing to plead guilty to a set number of felony counts and elocute in court to his culpability in the Jan. 6 insurrection, in exchange for no jail time and a lifetime prohibition from elective office.

    Personally, I could live with that.

    Trump (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 09:47:04 AM EST
    will never bow out. The only way to get rid of him is to convict him and put him in some sort of prison. He also will never plead.

    Maybe I will be proven wrong but that is what I see.

    Parent

    Yep (none / 0) (#5)
    by FlJoe on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 10:18:26 AM EST
    it is my firm opinion that the man is long past the point of rationality.

    Take all the historical and biographical context out of his posts and they can only be seen as the ravings of a madman.

    His base loves it, the rest of the populace has become numb to it and the pundits mostly just ignore it.

    This country is in a very weird and dangerous place, Hunter S Thompson  warned us about this.

    Parent

    Yes (none / 0) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 03:18:57 PM EST
    very dangerous. The problem is IMO even after Trump is gone we are still going to be dealing with the fallout.

    Parent
    Yes (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Sep 29, 2023 at 03:18:57 PM EST
    very dangerous. The problem is IMO even after Trump is gone we are still going to be dealing with the fallout.

    Parent