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    Jobs Numbers (5.00 / 2) (#1)
    by indy in sc on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:40:42 AM EST
    I expected breathless positive spin, but not from Forbes.  :)

    Either way, it is positive news for the country and net positive for Obama's campaign as I don't think this report moves the needle that much and to the extent it does, it goes in favor of the general trend towards Obama.

    It's gonna be a squeaker in Honolulu (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:37:04 AM EST
    Reactionary former HI governor Ben Cayetano is running a single-issue campaign of trying to stop Honolulu's already-under-construction elevated rail line. He started out with a massive lead but his opponent Kirk Caldwell has been gaining in recent polls; looks like it's gonna be down to the wire.
    Honolulu is unique in that it has pretty much the perfect urban form for mass transit - it's long and linear which means you only need a single line to serve nearly the entire city unlike other cities where you need several 'spokes' radiating out from the center.
    Of course the arguments against the line have no real facts behind their arguments; just appeals to people' emotions with lines like 'Hawiians wont take the train, they love their cars to much' or 'It will ruin the cities natural beauty'. No, what will ruin the Honolulu's natural beauty is the pollution spewing from automobiles and sprawling auto-centric suburbs that take up huge amounts of land.

    Too true (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:43:32 AM EST
    Nothing says nature and beauty like a great big parking lot EVERYWHERE.

    Parent
    You're in CO, right? (none / 0) (#13)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:22:39 AM EST
    Denver has been making some great progress on its light rail system. Not as fast as I'd like to see of course, but I think things had to be scaled back due to depressed tax revenue from the Great Recession (like a lot of other cities).
    Is there any transit to speak of in other parts of CO? (Boulder maybe?)

    Parent
    I am from CO (none / 0) (#16)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:40:25 AM EST
    In Alabama due to the Army.  We bought a house here though.  I don't think Alabama will care about efficient rail systems ever.

    Parent
    True. (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:59:02 PM EST
    With Alabama showing an unwillingness to fund even the most basic of services, it's hard to imagine them ever investing in public transportation (socialism!!!).
    Atlanta to New Orleans, with stops in Alabama, has the potential to be a pretty successful high-speed rail corridor some day, though southern HSR in general was pushed back by several decades by Rick Scott's insane decision to scuttle Florida's fully-funded HSR line.
    Republicans putting politics before economic growth, what a shock eye roll

    Parent
    Would I ever fight for that!!!! (none / 0) (#54)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:05:07 PM EST
    I have made a few new friends here now as I am becoming an AL voter whether I like it or not.  One couple is  from Oregon, he is a professor who taught at Auburn and is now at Troy.  She has sent me videos and all sorts of instructional items so that I can better understand Alabama issues.

    Parent
    Sorry for all the typos/grammatical mistakes (none / 0) (#10)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:43:09 AM EST
    Public transportation debates get me all worked up!

    Parent
    I happen to be on the other side. (none / 0) (#90)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:04:10 PM EST
    As a former senior staffmember for House Democratic leadership at the State Capitol, I've read the financial reports in quite some detail, and from my perspective, the rail project's numbers as currently offered by the City & County of Honolulu simply don't add up.

    It should be noted -- which you failed to do here, I might add -- that the "official" estimated cost of this proposed rail system has more than doubled in the six years since it was first proposed by former Honolulu Mayor Mufi Hannemann, from $2.7 billion in 2006 to its present $5.7 billion as of Sept. 2012, when the courts halted construction.

    Further, we should also note for those TL readers here who remain interested in learning more about the quid pro quo-style politics plaguing the City & County of Honolulu, that the proposed segment from Ala Moana Center to the University of Hawaii at Manoa has since been deferred indefinitely by current Mayor Peter Carlisle's office to keep those burgeoning costs down.

    Because otherwise, according to a May 9, 2012 letter from Dan Grabauskas, executive director for the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation (HART), to City Councilmember Ann Kobayashi, the project's cost would balloon to $9.1 billion!

    Now, perhaps you have a perfectly plausible explanation regarding how the original estimated cost of a capital project of this size and scale more than effectively tripled from $2.7 billion to $9.1 billion in only six years' time, were the rail system to be built as initially sold by Mayor Hannemann and his administration to the people of Oahu.

    Well, from my considerable experience in public sector policy development, I'd offer that it can most likely happen either one of two ways:

    • The team initially appointed by Mayor Hannemann to put together this project was totally and collectively incompetent when calculating its projected estimated costs; or

    • The Hannemann administration deliberately lowballed those initial cost estimates to the public, in order to first gain voter approval at the ballot box via charter amendment in November 2008 for the creation of HART, a quasi-public entity which is now responsible for the planning and oversight of the project's inital construction, as well as its subsequent management and maintenance.

    And honestly, jtaylorr, was it really necessary for the mayor to subsequently appoint Don Horner, retired CEO / Chairman of BankWest Corp., as the chair of HART's finance committee? (Horner has since been elevated to HART Chairman.)

    After all, Horner's only serving simultaneously as the current chairs of both the Hawaii State Board of Education AND the Board of Directors for the Hawaii Visitors & Convention Bureau!

    Doesn't that rather unique and remarkable consolidation of power over three very influential governing bodies, all in the well-greased hands of this one extraordinarily influential corporatist, even bother you in the slightest?

    In the meantime, Honolulu has thus far only collected $480 million on the 0.5% excise tax that was specifically enacted by the Hawaii legislature in 2007 to pay for rail and has further diverted $444 million from the city's existing (and excellent) bus system toward the rail project, which has in turn forced a 25% increase in fares and some very steep cuts in service on key routes.

    The $1.5 billion in federal funding promised by Sen. Inouye has yet to be approved by Congress, and as long as the GOP remains in control of the U.S. House, there's no guarantee at all that these funds will either appropriated or released any time soon.

    The Honolulu City Council has also approved the initial issuance of over $2 billion in general obligation bonds to pay for the first phase of construction. However, it should again be noted that without providing a sufficient means of revenue to pay for it, this bond issue will increase the city's debt service from its current 12% annual share of general revenues to 30% -- that's right, I said 30% -- by the year 2018, should a hefty increase in property taxes not be forthcoming.

    Because without an increase in revenues, the city's bond rating would undoubtedly crater at that point, compelling the state government to intervene financially in order to prevent its largest municipaity from going belly-up fiscally.

    Simply put, the City & County of Honolulu doesn't presently have a revenue stream that's in any way adequate to both pay for the project's construction and account for projected cost overruns (by 25%, conservatively) and the rail system's projected maintenance costs, neither of which has even been budgeted.

    Further, the State of Hawaii's own finances are hardly sufficient to take on a project of this magnitude and also sustain its own obligations, without a corresponding increase in its own revenues.

    In spite of this, former acting Mayor Kirk Caldwell has explicitly promised that if elected he would not raise property taxes to meet the anticipated shortfall in city and county revenues, even as he collects huge campaign donations from contractors and firms who would benefit financially from this muti-billion dollar boondoggle.

    And when I consider the sheer chutzpah of Caldwell's corporate allies, who continue to falsely accuse former Gov. Ben Cayetano via an extensive media campaign of "pay to play" corruption -- Mahalo Nui Loa, SCOTUS and Citizens United -- I have to consider the Caldwell / Hannemann hui to be the penultimate example of irresponsible, crass and cynical politicking.

    This is really much less about planning for Honolulu's future, than it is about protecting a lucrative and publicly funded cash cow, by locking in public funding for those private developers and well-connected contractors who expect to reap a healthy windfall from the single largest capital project ever undertaken in the history of the Hawaiian Islands.

    I proudly support Ben Cayetano for Mayor of Honolulu. I do so with my eyes wide open, in full knowledge that I have many friends up at the Capitol who for whatever their reasons are backing the other side.

    But speaking for myself only, I am simply not willing to risk financial havoc for the City & County of Honolulu, and potentially compromise the future socio-economic well being of its residents, for the mere sake of installing a political crony and corporate shill like Kirk Caldwell in the mayor's office at Honolulu Hale.

    And that's where I stand. Aloha.

    Parent

    Yes, it is *extremely* expensive. (none / 0) (#114)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:22:10 PM EST
    The US has very serious issue with costs controls on all types of infrastructure projects (highways, airports, and rail). To build a mile of subway under Barcelona literally costs 1% of what it does to build a mile of subway under New York City (using the Second Avenue Subway costs). That is absolutely insane, and the US seriously needs to find ways to get its infrastructure costs under control.
    A lot of these out-of-control costs come from contracting out all the design/engineering/construction work to private consultants & contractors, whereas in Europe that is all done in-house. But we invest so little in public transit in the US that it doesn't make sense for even NYC's transit agencies to have in-house teams for all that. As well, much of it comes from cronyism & sweetheart deals that are endemic to all forms of infrastructure construction in the U.S.

    But.

    This is a 100 year investment. Do you think in 100 years it will really matter if this cost $5 billion vs. $10 billion? No, it wont because in the end the total cost of the system will be a tiny fraction of the overall economic growth this will create. I don't think there's a mass transit project built in the US wasn't derided as boondoggle so expensive it will surely doom future generations. But can you point to any cities that actually are so buried under mass transit debt that they can't function? No, because it's all histrionics. It's entirely possible taxes will have to be raised in the future to help cover costs. It's possible the Feds will have to step in a contribute more to the project. But to claim that this project is somehow so unique in being expensive and out of control that it will doom Honolulu is, well lying. It's costs are in line with other mass transit projects in the U.S. (which again, by European standards, are extremely high). There will be growing pains, but just like every other city in the US that has embraced mass transit and dense developement, it will become an intergal and essential part of Hawaii's transportation network & urban fabric.

    At the end of the day, it's about the future of Honolulu. Doing nothing simply isn't an option. It isn't. Whatever happens, billions are going to be spent on some kind of expansion of Honolulu's transportation network. So you can either build rail that will spur dense, walkable, mixed-used, environmentally-friendly development (that yes, private developers will profit from!) or you can continue with 1950's-era road expansion which will only increase auto-dependence, and create more sprawling, polluting, energy-inefficient, un-walkable, cookie-cutter suburbs (that again, private developers will profit from!). I just don't understand how anyone could look at an auto-dependent city like Houston or LA where literally more than half of their downtowns are parking lots, then look at a transit-friendly city like DC or New York or Seattle, and say that you prefer the auto-centric model (it should be noted that both Houston and LA, but LA especially, are currently pouring huge amounts of money into their transit networks, having largely realized how damaging auto-dependence is to cities).

    For all of Obama's failings, he's been the most mass transit and city-friendly president we've had since probably LBJ. If he's reelected, Honolulu's rail will be built. There's absolutely no way he'd let a small-minded guy like Ben stand in the way of Honolulu's future (especially with the line already under construction and federal funds having been already spent). I wouldn't be voting for him if that weren't the case.

    Parent

    Just to be clear (none / 0) (#115)
    by jtaylorr on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:26:12 PM EST
    I wasn't at all trying to imply that you yourself were lying about anything in your post. I understand you're coming from, but I do strongly feel like many of the arguments against mass transit in the U.S. stem from misinformation, taking things out of context and yes, many times outright lies.

    Parent
    Look, I'm not against rail transit, per se. (none / 0) (#123)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:06:05 PM EST
    But as someone who long worked as a public policy analyst, I'm adamantly opposed to this financially reckless and fiscally irresponsible plan, in which the most expensive rail system that other people's money can buy was chosen by Mayor Hannemann and his corporate benefactors, to the literal exclusion of all other viable transit alternatives from the public discussion -- including light rail!

    So, let's please get one thing straight here. What's currently being proposed for Honolulu is not a light rail system making use of existing publicly-owned corridors and rights of way, such as we see in Sacramento, Portland and Seattle.

    Rather, what first the Hannemann administration and then the Carlisle administrations have sought to impose on us is a heavy train running on elevated platforms ranging from 50 to 120 feet above the ground, not unlike a modern version of Chicago's L.

    Further, HART is not following public rights of way, but is instead using the eminent domain process to purchase private property upon which to build the system. This has led to real estate speculation driving up the system's costs, as well-connected friends of the powers-that-be seek to line their pockets at taxpayer expense by flipping properties to be condemned and thus gaming the city procurement system.

    Even further, in the central Honolulu corridor, this cement-and-steel-rail monstrosity will be running along the entire length of the city's waterfront, effectively obliderating all sight plains from Honolulu Int'l Airport to Ala Moana Shopping Center. Does that make any sense for a large city that's already inordinately dependent upon tourism for our economic lifeblood as it is?

    Finally, the proposed system will be using steel-on-steel technology for the trains and tracks themselves, which in and of itself an absolutely ludicrous travesty of planning for a salt air-saturated environment like Honolulu's. Do you have any idea what the ongoing mainstenance costs for such a system will be?

    Now, I honestly don't know whether or not you actually live here on Oahu, like I do. Given that your discussion about rail transit has been limited to whether or not one opposes the concept of rail transit as an effective means of public transportation, I'm guessing that perhaps you may not.

    If you don't live here, then I'd offer that it's really not your place to weigh in on a critical matter of local concern like this, particularly when it includes offering your personal opinions about the veracity of our two mayoral candidates, about both of whom you obviously know little or nothing. As a local Democratic Party official, I happen to know them both personally, because both are Democrats. (Municipal elections in the City and County of Honolulu are designated nonpartisan.)

    I trust Ben Cayetano, even though he's a rather cantankerous individual and admittedly hard to get along with. But while Kirk Caldwell is a genuinely nice and amenable guy in person, I don't trust him politically, because for the quarter-century that I've known him, he's been offering himself up to the powers that be as an all-too-willing tool for their use.

    I don't disagree with you about the knee-jerk opposition of many people across the country to various urban and intra-urban mass transit proposals, such as high speed rail in California and Florida, to name but two.

    But we're well past the stage of talking about a hypothetical rail system out here. What's on the table is a truly hairbrained and dangerously flawed proposal, one that holds rich potential to drive this city into financial insolvency if it's allowed to proceed as is.

    I also consider it irresponsible for a public official like Mayor Peter Carlisle and a mayoral candidate like Kirk Caldwell to attempt to restrict the public debate on this matter to a nebulous discussion of hypotheticals and generalities about the virtues of rail transit.

    Because while few of us will disagree about the very real benefits of mass transit, I've been arguing here that the devils inherent in the current HART proposal are very much in those details that Carlisle and Caldwell so desperately want to avoid talking about, for obvious reasons.

    As it stands now, Carlisle and Caldwell ought to congratulate themselves, for thanks to them and former Mayor Hannemann, we've now been left to a dreary choice between an extraordinarily flawed transit plan for this city, and no viable alternative at all.

    That's why I support Ben Cayetano for Honolulu mayor. We need to hit the reset button.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    One more thing, then I'm standing down. (none / 0) (#125)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:45:37 PM EST
    I've worked as a policy analyst for the better part of two decades now, and in my time at the stae legislature, it's long been an integral part of my job to consider cost and liability factors when drafting proposals for other people's due consideration.

    You mentioned places such as Denver, Los Angeles, Houston New York, etc., in your discussion. Well, you ought to consider that all those metropolitan areas have populations which are anywhere from four to fourteen times the size of the City & County of Honolulu, which per the 2010 census has 953,000 residents.

    We simply do not have the financial tax base to build and support this expensive type of rail system network at $5.7 to $9 billion, unless we're willing to raise taxes significantly upon our residents, particularly when we already have the highest taxes in the country as it is.

    At public hearings, I repeatedly testified that we should instead consider an integrated transit network that blends a grade-level light rail system using existing rights of way with our already-existing bus system that's long been rated one of the very best in the entire country.

    This would cost less than $2.5 billion to build, would be far less intrusive and unsightly than an elevated heavy rail running two-thirds the length of Oahu's south shore (mostly along the waterfront), and would be much easier and more affordable to maintain and even expand if necessary or desired.

    I was roundly ignored by Mayor Hannemann and his allies on the Honolulu City Council. They wanted to shower their corporate contractor friends with public monies, and weren't interested in really solving our obvious transit problem.

    Therefore, at this point, I think I've more than amply demonstrated that rail transit on Oahu is one issue about which I'm prepared to go into an awful lot of detail -- certainly a lot more than you.

    Please take that into consideration when you comment about an issue of paramount local concern to us out here, and please refrain from labeling people like me as shortsighted liars -- because I really don't enjoy telling people ex post facto when something goes horribly FUBAR that I told them so.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Okay, one more thing. (none / 0) (#127)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:15:26 PM EST
    Here's a photo of the "already under construction" rail system in its entirety, as it exists at present. That's it -- less than one-half mile of seven concrete pillars 45 feet tall, with rebar for five more, in former farmland in west Oahu.

    And FYI, both the Hawaii State Supreme Court and the U.S. Ninth Circuit Court (as of yesterday) have ordered a complete halt to all construction on the project, because the Carlisle administration was found to have violated numerous state laws and local ordinances in their haste to get this project fully vested before the mayoral election took place.

    The whole controversy is now headed for a very public trial in circuit court, thanks to the lawsuits brought against the city, and the ugly truth about what our city officials allowed to occur will come out.

    If I had my way, those seven pillars will be left forever standing exactly as they are, as a monument to municipal duplicity and a reminder to future generations about what can happen when elected officials decide to play a shell game with their own constituents.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Another bridge to nowhere... (none / 0) (#133)
    by fishcamp on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 07:34:24 AM EST
    And FYI, no federal funds have been ... (none / 0) (#132)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 02:17:36 AM EST
    ... spent on the HART rail project, because none have been appropriated. I've already noted the the state and federal courts have ordered a halt to all project construction.

    Now, I don't know where you got your information for these posts of yours, but it sure sounds as though you could've cut and pasted it from the Pacific Resources Partnership's website.

    If you did get this from thrm, then please note that PRP is a business consortium consisting of contractors, developers and the Hawaii Carpenters Union, all of which have a substantial financial interest and stake in seeing this project go though unamended or altered in any way. They are hardly an unbiased source of information on this matter.

    Parent

    This scares (5.00 / 1) (#14)
    by sj on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:29:06 AM EST
    the bejeesus out of me: the continuing militarization of the police.  This time it's in Colorado.

    Really?  For an eviction?

    That story is unf*ckingbelievable! (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:39:46 AM EST
    The banks are now calling out militarized assault teams on underwater homeowners??? Yeah, that photo of the police hovering over an elderly man down on the ground in handcuffs is really gonna make us feel safer.

    WTF!

    Parent

    Oh, but not "just" an eviction, sj, but (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:51:16 AM EST
    one that involved - cue doom music - an Occupy group - and we all know what that means, don't we?  Gotta call out the troops lest the great unwashed, DF - communist - H's get the upper hand and just take over.

    Disgusting, just utterly disgusting.

    Parent

    I am 100% convinced (none / 0) (#66)
    by sj on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:01:41 PM EST
    that you are right about much of this being a response to Occupy.

    Think about that.  Apparently Occupy is a much greater danger to the oligarchy then even they know...

    Parent

    To serve and protect the haves.... (none / 0) (#74)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:32:31 PM EST
    a disservice and threat to the have nots.

    Parent
    I jsut got a voicemail from Michelle Obama! (5.00 / 4) (#28)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:58:44 AM EST
    I'll call her back later...a little busy at the moment.

    Voice mail...cool (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by fishcamp on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:18:55 PM EST
    I just get about five e=mails from her daily.  Please don't give her my number.

    Parent
    "You might live in a swing state if..." (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:25:32 PM EST
    1.  It feels like Michelle Obama has you on speed dial.

    2.  You're worried Mitt Romney might show up for dinner (but the good news is, that might mean you're not one of the 47%!)

    3.  ???


    Parent
    Cell phone? (none / 0) (#38)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:23:34 PM EST
    yep (none / 0) (#42)
    by fishcamp on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:29:15 PM EST
    Yep! (none / 0) (#77)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:43:08 PM EST
    I'm sure liking how the latest polls (5.00 / 3) (#45)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:42:43 PM EST
    are swinging towards Obama, and Rasmussen and Gravis are now releasing polls trending to Obama to save their reputations.

    Here's a site that will tell you about (5.00 / 1) (#64)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 02:50:53 PM EST
    every state's ballot initiatives: Ballotpedia.

    And here's the link to the one initiative that will be on the SC ballot this year.

    Maryland has three of them - Questions 4, 6 and 7 - that are flooding the region with ads; I can't wait for it to be over.

    I am just ready (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:06:43 PM EST
    for the voting and the election to be over.


    Slow recovery... (5.00 / 1) (#70)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:23:53 PM EST
    Still no power at the office...had to close up shop early, impossible to get gas for the generators.  Monday is another day...sure hope the job is juiced up by then, working conditions and problems at home have everyone extra testy, and the owners are MIA.  Our office manager is doing an amazing job taking charge getting sh*t done, FEMA should hire him, you'd think he owned the goldmine.

    The lines at the gas stations with supply and electricity are nuts...heard of a few donnybrooks breaking out when arsehats try cutting the line.  Starting to see police doing crowd control at the gas stations.  May cool heads prevail.  I'm holding strong at half a tank, gonna wait some more before even bothering to try to fill up.

    Almost feel guilty how well I'm making out, and all my family is now up and running....just as I was about to force my great-uncle over to my place.  Lots of friends who are still out stopping by to use the shower, have a cup of joe, get warm, get stoned...any LI/NYC TL'ers need an electrified oasis email me, the more the merrier.  

    Hang in there party people!  

     

    Obama drafts military to deliver gas (none / 0) (#113)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:18:37 PM EST
    and diesel to storm affected areas. The DoD is in the process of purchasing and trucking 12 million gallons of unleaded gas and 10 million gallons of diesel to the New York, New Jersey and other affected areas.

    Obama has also authorized the DoD to tap into the Northeast Home Heating Oil Reserves.

    Now, they just have to get power to more gas stations so they can pump the gas.

    The feds have also opened the Port of New York to foreign fuel tankers for unloading.

    Parent

    Why are they running a marathon in NY (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by ExcitableBoy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:29:29 PM EST
    when there's utter devastation in Staten Island? People are begging for water, supplies, help, and they're going to divert thousands of police and emergency services for a race?

    The generators could be put to better use, and victims are being displaced from hotels to go home to...nothing.

    I'm with you... (5.00 / 4) (#76)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:41:06 PM EST
    the marathon should be postponed.  Typical Bloomberg...treating the city as a playground of the rich and business, and not a home to people from all walks of life.  Unless it's to monitor your calories or your smoking he don't wanna know no proles.

    The only way they should run it is in reverse...and ask every runner to lug a gallon of gas or a gallon of water over the Verrazano to the finish.

    Parent

    Woman entered in marathon will not (5.00 / 2) (#81)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:48:21 PM EST
    run in protest; instead, she will wear her bib, take the race-provided bus to the Staten Island start point, and then peel off to volunteer with relief efforts.

    A Brooklyn woman scheduled to run in the NYC Marathon is gathering a group of runners to volunteer on hurricane-battered Staten Island Sunday instead of running the race. Penny Krakoff, a social worker who lives in Crown Heights, is entered in the race, but tells us she can't participate in good conscience. Instead, she plans to user her bib to take the official bus transporting marathon runners to the starting line on Staten Island--and then spurn the race to spend the day volunteering.

    Krakoff says she'll collect extra food and and clothing to take with her on the bus and distribute it on Staten Island. Her neighborhood was spared the brunt of Hurricane Sandy's wrath, but Krakoff is well aware of the devastation wrought on Staten Island and elsewhere, and she's part of a growing number of New Yorkers who feel the Marathon should be postponed. She writes:

    I cannot start a 26.2 mile run in Staten Island--people are missing, stranded, in need of resources. Brooklyn and Queens have equal devastation. Parts of Manhattan are without electricity, water, major hospitals are closed. The Bronx too has its own challenges. Today I will volunteer at a city evacuation shelter. Sunday morning I will catch the marathon bus to Staten Island. Not planning to run. Plan to volunteer instead and gather resources (extra clothes, bottles of water, food from runners at the start). Let's not waste resources and attention on a foot race. Who is with me?

    I hope more join that effort.

    Parent

    Also more of this (5.00 / 3) (#88)
    by sj on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:01:10 PM EST
    Richard Nicotra, Staten Island Hotel Owner, Refuses To Evict Hurricane Refugees For NYC Marathon Runners (VIDEO)

    Parent
    Awesomeness... (5.00 / 2) (#92)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:06:32 PM EST
    all around...thanks for the positive doses.

    Parent
    Posted befor I could add this update: (none / 0) (#83)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:52:03 PM EST
    Update 10:35 a.m.: Another group of Marathon runners has also been organizing independently of Krakoff's efforts. According to their Facebook page:

    Runners will show up at the starting line, but will break off en masse at different points of the city to deliver supplies to places hardest hit and without power. This will mean departing from the race, to head to various buildings, running up and down stairs delivering water and canned goods, etc. Runners will show up to the marathon, as scheduled. Runners who want to help should post the words, "I'M HERE TO HELP!" somewhere on their bodies.

    Comments to this article are interesting, too.

    Parent

    Are those runners (none / 0) (#91)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:04:23 PM EST
    taking hotel rooms that were home for homeless storm survivors?  Are the runner aware that their reservations are causing that problem? (see below)

    Parent
    Marathon has been cancelled. (5.00 / 1) (#106)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 06:13:42 PM EST
    I just got an email from the NYTimes telling me that Bloomberg has pulled the plug on the marathon. Sounds like the adverse publicity and the anger of New Yorkers who are still w/o power and water and gas did the trick.

    Parent
    Apparently, Bloomberg does not get (none / 0) (#89)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:02:58 PM EST
    to make the call on this, I read, and the city could get sued by the organizers.  They make the call.  They ought to be outed and shamed for this.  

    Now, perhaps Bloomberg could have gotten the city cover on this by getting the city council to give itself or him emergency powers to cancel the race?  But, so I read, the emergency powers that he has do not extend to cancelling this event, under the contract, for the reason that citizens need the hotel rooms, the tents, the generators.

    That is, latest reports are that homeless storm survivors in hotels are being booted out for the marathoners' (and organizers') room reservations, and that the city is having to provide -- as contracted -- tents and generators to the race that could go to the citizens of Staten Island in the unseasonably colder temperatures.

    All this is what I read, anyway (on other blog populated by lots of Noo Yawkers, who are angry about it but trying to explain it with balance).  Maybe they're wrong, and maybe Bloomberg could have cancelled the event, and of course, he remains an a** for other reasons.

    Now, the big telethon tonight with the Boss and others -- is that in New York or New Jersey, and is it using resources that could go to citizens, too?  Did it really have to be held so soon?

    Parent

    Rockefeller Center... (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by kdog on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:18:05 PM EST
    good question.

    If they can run the marathon without any city workers or city generators, god bless 'em. Otherwise a leader says go ahead and sue, I've got a job to do.

    Parent

    The marathon is cancelled (none / 0) (#95)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:39:02 PM EST
    by organizers (under pressure from city officials).

    The show, of course, will go on.  This is NYC!

    Parent

    The problem now of course (none / 0) (#97)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:56:06 PM EST
    they had up to 50,000 people entered and thousands arrived in town today with many from other countries.

    Oh well, they can always go see the Heat and Knicks tonight at Madison Square Garden.

    Parent

    Non-Sense... (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 05:14:10 PM EST
    Surely he can direct his people to not close streets, to only allow locals and emergency workers on the Staten Island ferries.  Are they going to make him clear streets on the route, deflood tunnels, find gas for their generators, and a million other things that would make the race impossible to hold.  

    I guess he got lucky the storm didn't hit the day of the race.  Dumb.

    And far as being sued, that is BS too, is Bloomberg really worried about a jury of New Yorkers siding with them, please.

    I think they screwed up and they know it and they are trying to hatch some BS.

    Parent

    Timing is everything. (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by KeysDan on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:30:22 PM EST
    Matt Romney, second-eldest son of Mitt and Lady Romney, traveled to Moscow this week with fellow Brigham Young University alum, Gary B. Sabin, chairman and chief executive of Excel Trust, seeking Russian investors for their San Diego-based real estate firm.  According to Greg Davis, vice president,  the trip was harmless and  unrelated to the Romney campaign.

    Excel is an investment trust that focuses on shopping centers around the country.  According to Mr. Davis, by distributing 90 percent or more of a dividend, it helps investors avoid double taxation under the law.  The elder Mr. Romney has criticized President Obama for being too soft on Russia, calling it "our No.l geopolitical foe" and if elected president he would confront Putin with more backbone.   The Romney comments have caused alarm in Moscow as a throw back to the cold war.  However, it appears that Young Romney may have more flexibility than the Elder Romney, this week.

    That is the problem with Romney as president (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:49:28 PM EST
    in a nutshell - there is NO Romney business venture that is unrelated to his power as president.

    Why the phrase 'Conflict of Interest' is not used in every Obama ad is a mystery to me....

    Parent

    Lights are on (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 05:26:22 PM EST
    in lower Manhattan with complete electrical restoration to Manhattan expected within 24 hours.

    There is something of a caveat that (none / 0) (#101)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 05:35:06 PM EST
    I hadn't even thought of until I read Yves Smith earlier today (my bold):

    The good news is not as good as it sounds. Con Ed says it will have all of its "underground networks" on by tomorrow. If that happens, that's a day ahead of schedule in the blackout area, which is a big step forward. However, that does not mean everyone will get power back. Remember, buildings connect to the electrical grid. If a building was flooded, its own electrical systems may have been damaged. This is particularly likely in high-rises, which tend to put that equipment in the basement. My understanding is that it takes 2 inspections before damaged building equipment can be reattached: one by Con Ed, another by NYC building inspectors. Even if the latter is waived on behalf of large "reputable" building operators, the former is essential. That may mean that a lot of the high-rises in the Wall Street area (particularly near Water Street and South Ferry), Battery Park City, and buildings in the lower parts of Tribeca may not have power restored (one bit of schadenfreude: this may continue to inconvenience top bank lawyer Rodgin Cohen, who is managing partner of Sullivan & Cromwell. The Financial Times reported that the white shoe firm had less than adequate disaster recovery planning. Maybe this is karmic payback for their role in acting as chief handmaiden to Wall Street).

    I'm so oriented to the stand-alone, single-family home that I hadn't considered the problem with getting power to the high rise buildings.

    Parent

    i actually (none / 0) (#104)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 06:07:43 PM EST
    wondered about this because having been to NYC and realizing how much stuff is underground I wondered how much that is underground is damaged beyond repair. I wonder how much stuff is not even usable and has to be replaced which could make it an even longer wait for the people in the lower part of Manhattan.

    Parent
    Watched Morning Joe (none / 0) (#2)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:49:38 AM EST
    Not much Joe today, when he was allowed to share his thoughts he forgot to be Joe mama mouthy....they still spent five minutes trying to say something about a competitive race but considering the length of the show that isn't anything.  Joe seemed to also be in some kind of "time out".

    Poor Joe, pondering his own relevence (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:58:28 AM EST
    That's what that look on his face was! (none / 0) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:21:35 AM EST
    Nailed it

    Parent
    ha! I mean, if you are not allowed to say (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:25:52 AM EST
    the simple fact that although it is going to be a close vote, right now the battleground states seem like they are tilting toward Obama....what good are you as a pundit the Friday before the election?

    Parent
    Last night, watching the network news, (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:25:36 AM EST
    I began to get a feeling that the media were a little bored with Obama's involvement in - and their own good press for him on - the Sandy response, and were going to start using the problems being experienced by the residents of Staten Island to gin up some more "controversy."  You know, to bring back more of that neck-and-neck stuff as they see Obama pulling away a bit in the days just before the election.  

    And to be fair to poor Mitt, who had to kind of go off the radar while Obama was being all presidential and stuff.

    I should add that I don't mean to minimize at all what's happening on Staten Island; there is clearly suffering and devastation and great need for help.  I don't know what these people are going to do when they find out that their insurance isn't going to cover the flood damage unless they had separate coverage for it.

    My problem is with the media looking to start playing politics with Sandy and her aftermath; I hope I'm wrong that that's what's getting ready to happen.  

    Parent

    You would think that the (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:29:30 AM EST
    many stories coming out of Sandy would be interesting enough in and of themselves to keep the media busy, but I suppose they will grasp for an election tie-in. I don't expect it to have a lot of impact though. As they say, the trajectory is set.

    Parent
    Bloomberg is only making it worse for himself (none / 0) (#55)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:09:14 PM EST
    You know when this does matter?  2016 when Bloomberg and Christie run for the Republican nomination.  Christie 1 Bloomberg -2

    Parent
    I get the Feeling... (5.00 / 2) (#58)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:16:41 PM EST
    ...this might be a test balloon, to see if people are ready to start blaming the government.  I expect Monday it's going to be straight up carnage, working those last two days hard.  And the right... expect a lot of hype that will invariably turn out to be lies, but not until after the election.

    The only problem is this controversy seems fairly legit, namely the marathon.  They had a guy on TV saying the city is looking for generators for the event tents, while Staten Islanders were still looking for bodies.  Then they showed the landscape and it looked worse than New Orleans because of the fires.

    Bloomberg can tell everyone that no resources will be used, but that is complete BS and everyone knows it.

    Parent

    Here's what has me confused. (5.00 / 2) (#62)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 02:41:32 PM EST
    I watched NBC news last night and saw the Staten Islanders who were, justifiably, angry about all the attention going to Manhattan and about the marathon and how nobody was helping them. There was lots of coverage of the damage and the anger.

    Then in what was really a throw-away line, the reported said that, in fact, FEMA was already working on Staten Island and the Red Cross already had relief trucks on the Island.

    So, what is going on? As to the people living on Staten Island, well I can imagine that right now almost no amount of help is going to be enough. Their lives are devastated. But why is the press basically ignoring the presence of FEMA and the RC?

    IMO, having the marathon displays a disgusting lack of awareness and sensitivity on Bloomberg's part. These people are freezing cold and hungry and have no homes and very little if anything to eat. And Bloomberg says the Marathon will show NYC's resilience? What an @sshole. There is no excuse for diverting any resources away from helping the people whose lives  have been devastated.

    Get the power back on for everyone. Instead of taking generators to the Marathon tents, take them to the gas stations who cannot pump gas because they don't have electricity.

    Geez, priorities, people.

    Parent

    That was what got my spidey sense (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:10:42 PM EST
    tingling, casey - that they spent so much time showing the world the anger being felt on Staten Island, so that by the time they got around to the blink-and-you-missed-it "comment" from the federal representative, it ended up sounding defensive.

    Yes, we all get that the people affected are suffering - but why not report on what's being done, what the timelines are, how the manpower is being utilized, numbers and links for the  outreach and relief agencies?  Instead, I was left with the feeling that these people were just being abandoned.

    At some point, I begin to feel like a voyeur, glomming on to so much visible pain and misery - it begins to feel manipulative and sick.  It's not that I want to ignore it, or pretend it didn't happen, it's that I feel used - but I'm not sure to what end.  Is this about showing how ineffective the government is?  Are they trying to affect the election?  Is this the beginning of the onslaught of let's-go-to-the-private-sector-for-rebuilding?  Are they really showing us the people making bologna sandwiches at the fire hall to highlight the can-do spirit that emerges in times of crisis, or is it to make people ask, "where's the government when you need it?"

    I feel sicker by the hour over this marathon; when I hear "corporate tents," I get a mental picture of high-end 1%-ers noshing on upscale hors d'oeuvres and sipping on Chardonnay and Malbec.  Postpone the damn marathon, guilt the city or the corporate sponsors into setting up the tents to provide storm victims with food, shelter, access to relief agencies, medical attention and counseling.

    I'm ranting again - sorry.  I just don't get it - I probably never will.

    Parent

    Know exactly what you mean Anne (none / 0) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:38:33 AM EST
    We thought the same thing last night and spoke about it.  And it isn't that I don't want to know the hardship and I don't mind those who have lost and suffered being able to share their anguish, but can we use this constructively to get everyone what they need and on track again?  I imagine a lot of pain and shock out there but I want the news coverage to be about the recovery too.  Instead it looks like the media is only attempting to create strife instead of practicing journalism.  I suppose it goes all the way back to the playground and how it was hard to not run to see the fight.  Even if you shunned them like I did, seemed like I couldn't stop myself asking later, "So, what happened?"  We pay to watch a good fight.

    You would make a great Mayor or public servant in the middle of all this, you'd call the media out on it and do so eloquently.

    Parent

    I'm still trying to figure out how (5.00 / 3) (#12)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:03:58 AM EST
    holding the NY Marathon, which is staged on Staten Island, and is going to require a lot of public worker presence there and all along the route, is going to play juxtaposed against the aftermath of the storm; I don't think it's going to be pretty.

    Yes, I know this is a major event in the running world, that people have had to qualify and make plans and all that other stuff - and that it brings in a ton of money to NY - but that's predicated on there being a normal tourist turnout under normal conditions - which don't exist; even if people can manage to get there, where do they stay?

    There's an effort being made to frame it as an example of the toughness of New Yorkers, not letting a hurricane keep them down, but I think the optics, overall, are going to be just terrible.

    Parent

    Anne as usual (5.00 / 2) (#22)
    by Slayersrezo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:54:16 AM EST
    You are astute.

    Of course this doesn't look good. And I do think it shows the wrong priorities - the city could have either postponed or canceled it and been perfectly right to do so given this storm and its historical impact.

    I'm with the person who said if ONE first responder is diverted from Staten Island cleanup/help to the race then I'm all for making whomever did that pay.

    Parent

    So when Christie runs against Bloomberg (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:10:27 PM EST
    Bloomberg has already lost your vote?

    Parent
    The hopeful scenario.... (none / 0) (#17)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:42:00 AM EST
    ... is that NYC will dedicate a ton of resources to Staten Island to improve the optics, win-win. Does seem the forgotten borough has been forgotten.


    Parent
    Making matters worse, if that's possible, (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:25:55 PM EST
    is the weather forecast for next week.

    From Accuweather:

    Concern continues to grow that a storm will take shape along the Southeast coastline on Election Day before traversing the mid-Atlantic and New England coasts next Wednesday and Thursday.

    Such a storm would be accompanied by rain, some wind and the possibility of snow over a part of the Northeast's interior.

    [snip]

    The storm now brings added concerns since it threatens to impact the same places devastated by Sandy with the severity of those impacts dependent on the storm's exact track.

    [snip]

    The worst case scenario for Sandy-ravaged areas next week would unfold if the storm rapidly intensifies along the mid-Atlantic coast.

    Coastal communities from Virginia northward would be subject to strong onshore winds for about 12 to 18 hours. The tide would then come up a bit, potentially leading to additional beach erosion and minor overwash in unprotected areas.

    The strength of the winds alone along the coast could reverse the work done by utility crews and cause some more damage--again, not to the extent of Hurricane Sandy.

    The wind could blow around debris and structural items, such as siding, that were loosed by Sandy. Trees weakened during the hurricane may also succumb to the winds.

    Winds will become less of a concern along the mid-Atlantic and southern New England coasts if the storm intensifies farther offshore and takes aim at the Canadian Maritimes--a possibility AccuWeather.com meteorologists are considering.

    Let's hope this is a storm that weakens or tracks away from areas that don't need to deal with any kind of storm.

    Parent

    At some point that whole (none / 0) (#84)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:54:17 PM EST
    'look how tough we are' attitude just makes them look ridiculous. Until reading this today I did not even know the marathon was centered on Staten Island. It just seems like courting trouble to try to carry on.

    Parent
    Usually the NY Marathon (none / 0) (#99)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 05:25:55 PM EST
    traverses all five boroughs.  Ends in Central Park.  I know cause I ran it in a smudge under three hours!  (Snk.)

    Parent
    I had the same sense, Anne (none / 0) (#49)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:58:20 PM EST
    and said to Spouse Towanda that, recalling the media frenzies on weekends (Diana, Katrina, etc.), this still could cause last-minute churn in voting.

    Staten Islanders are very Republican, I read, so the media had to know what they -- and we -- were going to hear about Obama, FEMA, etc., there.  That said, the situation is bad there, the death toll highest there, and I also have to wonder why that mayor had to make such a media stink to finally get FEMA, Schumer, state legislators, and others to notice Staten Islanders were stranded, cold, and hungry.

    Parent

    I Thought Republicans... (none / 0) (#87)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:58:55 PM EST
    ...didn't need the federal government ?  I get taht they want to after Obama for not doing enough.

    I haven't seen any of the anger directed anywhere but Bloomberg over the marathon.  It seems justified to me.  And while the media might not be showing what the Fed is doing, certainly they know, and even it's not enough, it's still something.  I think the last they care about is the election.

    I keep thinking about how many people this is going to bring into the city and how many of the service industry people are going to have to serve them instead of taking care of the own lives.  How those additional people are going to drain the scare resources even more.  And even if the marathon doesn't pull resources (which is non-sense) it's certainly diverting resources to transport, feed, and house visitors.

    Just doesn't seem right.  And for the mayor to declare no resources will be diverted is a slap in the face its so ridiculously dumb.

    Parent

    Glenn Greenwald's most recent (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:50:27 AM EST
    post is on determining which U.S. President was "the worst" re civil liberties.  But he refrains from naming Pres. Obama.  

    Hard to argue his point that such a list (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:54:51 AM EST
    that does not include slavery-era presidents is pretty much a farce.

    Parent
    Taking slavery off the table though, (none / 0) (#32)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:09:50 PM EST
    he does name Obama, along with Bush, due to the fact that their abuses are in the name of an unending  War on Terror, unlike some other presidents that put temporary measures in place.

    Parent
    Did you know you have a better (none / 0) (#37)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:21:50 PM EST
    chance of dying in a lightening strike or falling in the bathtub than dying via terrorist attack?  I didn't.  Does TSA?

    Parent
    I Did Too (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by ScottW714 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:47:27 PM EST
    And are you kidding about the TSA, surely they believe that number is their making.  

    How many Americans were killed by terrorism last year in the US, divide that by the population.  About as close to zero as you can get.

    For flight, there are roughly 5000 commercial planes in US airspace at any given time, and at any given moment around 260,000 souls in the US are in flight, that is a descent size city in mid air all the time.

    Even if you do it over the 15 years to include 911, it infinitesimally small, and statistically insignificant.  

    Parent

    Ned to include flights to US from abroad. (none / 0) (#60)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 02:16:21 PM EST
    Yup (5.00 / 1) (#78)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:45:53 PM EST
    Probably better chance of getting married for the first time at age 55 too.

    Another thing on my list of not gonna happen.

    Parent

    Actually, I did know that (none / 0) (#46)
    by sj on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:49:39 PM EST
    I expect the TSA knows it as well.  But they'll pretend they don't.

    Parent
    Then there is the unending war on some drugs (none / 0) (#79)
    by Rojas on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:46:41 PM EST
    and the not so temporary measures that have negatively affected civil liberties and led to mass incarceration.
    It seems a fairly odd to take that one off the table as well.

    Parent
    No, there was no "winner," (none / 0) (#33)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:11:07 PM EST
    but Obama was mentioned with some frequency and not in a particularly flattering way.

    His real point, at least in my opinion, was that this isn't something to be glib about; he endeavored to explain the factors he would consider, but you are correct that he didn't actually name any one president as "the worst."

    Parent

    O + 4 in CO per PPP (none / 0) (#21)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:54:01 AM EST
    Dave Matthews Band appearing with Obama on Sunday night to help GOTV the youth vote.

    Waiting for PPP's complete results to see how the legalize MJ amendment is faring. Last time it was polled by ppp, legalizing was winning 53/43.

    hmmmm....does youth include 40-somethings? (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:56:04 AM EST
    I don't consider DMB a youthful band.

    Parent
    Youth vote is under 35 according to PPP (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:02:17 PM EST
    As I am 45, I would define that as the cutoff for youth.

    Parent
    I understand (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by sj on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:53:24 PM EST
    One of things I've noticed as time passes is that "young" keeps getting older and older.

    Parent
    Thank you sj... (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by fishcamp on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:03:45 PM EST
    No, cutoff for youth is 55 (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by easilydistracted on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:04:40 PM EST
    Its all relative, right?

    Parent
    Someone e-mailed a radio station... (none / 0) (#31)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:06:58 PM EST
    ... saying Obama has a future as a concert promoter because he's the only one who could get DMB to appear in CO lately.

    Parent
    I count one of the few advantages (none / 0) (#34)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:11:45 PM EST
    of Florida over Colorado is that I rarely hear anyone praising the DMB down here. Of course I lived in CO during the peak of their popularity...but even then I just did not get it.

    Parent
    Glad to read your appraisal. A young (none / 0) (#39)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:25:11 PM EST
    AA woman at the S.F. Giants ball park restroom asked me if I knew who was singing on the sound system.  I didn't.  Big surprise.  Why did she ask me?  Anyway, it was Dave Matthews, as if I cared.  

    Parent
    Maybe they were so popular in CO (none / 0) (#80)
    by ruffian on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:47:21 PM EST
    because he sings like he is low on oxygen.

    Parent
    Nope, it's a band of forty- and fifty-somethings (none / 0) (#27)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 11:58:04 AM EST
    for an audience of basically the same age.

    Parent
    Ahh, I forgot (none / 0) (#30)
    by Slayersrezo on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:03:42 PM EST
    You didn't vote Democrat, but you simply bash Republicans. That's much better in my opinion - though still a bit crippingly one eyed.

    Still, I applaud your vote. Congratulations, I take back what I said.

    A lovely lady from California (none / 0) (#35)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:15:31 PM EST
    just came to my door canvasing for Obama. She's here with two other friends going door to door for a week. My bumper sticker had her smiling before she got to the door.

    Obama is coming back to Florida this Sunday, this time in Broward County. Hollywood to be exact. The only poll out of Florida today has Obama +2.

    My friends are flying from CA to Norfolk VA (none / 0) (#41)
    by oculus on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:26:57 PM EST
    to canvas.  Should be interesting.  Last election they flew to Akron.  

    Parent
    Semd em to my (none / 0) (#102)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 05:46:58 PM EST
    house.  

    Parent
    Semd em to my (none / 0) (#103)
    by Wile ECoyote on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 05:48:49 PM EST
    house.  

    Parent
    BTW CG does Joe Garcia (none / 0) (#43)
    by fishcamp on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:31:22 PM EST
    still need our help or has Revera cooked his own goose?

    Parent
    I'm under the impression (none / 0) (#44)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:36:14 PM EST
    he's just laying low and letting Rivera give him the win. I haven't heard from them lately, the lady from California didn't mention him....and at the Michelle rally yesterday we had Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Marc Anthony, and Gabrielle Union speaking.

    Parent
    Interesting.... (none / 0) (#48)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 12:56:47 PM EST
    I've been watching MSNBC on an internet stream, and the stream did not cut away from Andrea Mitchell during commercial breaks.

    She's obviously incredibly nearsighted because you could hear her clicking thru the e-mails with her face literally 3 inches away from the desk monitor. Interesting hearing her ask questions from producers while interns hand her new bulletins.  She's much more polite to her staff than O'Reilly.

    She just had a "we'll do it live moment" (none / 0) (#51)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:01:01 PM EST
    except she was pleasant "OK, just turn off the prompter and I'll do the lead in ad-lib... ok... thank you."

    She may be a beltway hack, but she's a nice one.

    Parent

    She just sang "I love drinking Scotch" (none / 0) (#57)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 01:14:20 PM EST
    like in Anchorman. (jk)

    Parent
    Does anyone have a good source (none / 0) (#61)
    by indy in sc on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 02:31:58 PM EST
    for information about ballot initiatives?  SC has one that neither the pro nor the con factions have put any effort or money into publicizing or educating the public about.

    Meant to post my comment as a (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 02:52:04 PM EST
    reply to you - here it is, in case it gets lost in the shuffle.

    Parent
    Thank you! (none / 0) (#86)
    by indy in sc on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:58:21 PM EST
    I'm placing the early vote going Republican (none / 0) (#63)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 02:41:45 PM EST
    in Colorado on 64.  My conservative family members are freaking out, stoners are taking over.  I think they must have thrown other conservative family members out of line ahead of them trying to line up to vote.  They are terrified.  It's going to be a hempocalypse, run for your lives.

    Denver's mayor and his Wisconsin scare (none / 0) (#67)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:03:03 PM EST
    in his announcement in Wisconsin that early voting was going to Republicans appears to have been untrue.  A polling outfit finds that early voters are going 56% to Dem candidates -- or were, anyway, when he made his announcement.

    Denver's mayor now appears to be incommunicado about where the heck he got his numbers and/or whether this was just a silly scare tactic about which he ought to have known better, as it would only create buzz on wingnut blogs and squawk radio in Wisconsin to hype Republican turnout.  The state already is coping with so many factors from the new voter-suppression laws to the daily dirty tricks that it does not need more complications to make the election close and land it in more lawsuits, after similar messes lately.

    I hope that buzz dies down before Tuesday, and especially for the sake of the Tammy Baldwin campaign.   The rest of you really, really do not want the boy from Elroy, Tommy Thompson, in the U.S. Senate.

    A handy chart for interpreting polling.... (none / 0) (#85)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 03:54:19 PM EST
    from Chris Bowers, who figured out how final polling averages translated into election results in past elections:

     A candidate with a .5% lead wins 56% of the time
     A candidate with a 1% lead wins 64% of the time
     A candidate with a 2% lead wins 78% of the time
     A candidate with a 3% lead wins 83% of the time
     A candidate with a 4% lead wins 89% of the time

    I'm thinking (none / 0) (#94)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:38:04 PM EST
    come Tuesday, we'll be looking at:

    332-206

    Parent

    Marathon postponed (none / 0) (#96)
    by magster on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 04:41:09 PM EST
    This is for ABG (none / 0) (#105)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 06:11:40 PM EST
    if he stops by. Today they held voting at my youngest son's elementray school. He was very excited about this and was telling my husband and I about it. My husband asked what was the vote total fully expecting to hear of a Romney landslide in the voting. My son said it was 300 and something to 150 for Obama. My husband and I looked at each other in disbelief. The kid sitting next to him had a meltdown. I know this kid's father and he's a real right winger. My husband thinks a lot of Mitt's problem with the voters is his religion.

    ... the polar opposite in our schools, because Barack Obama's a Honolulu boy and Hawaii's favorite son.

    The only real questions remaining in Hawaii presidential politics are whether or not:

    • Obama can break 70% again, like he did four years ago against McCain; and
    • We beat out Mitt Romney's adopted home of Massachusetts, as the blue state with the largest margin of victory for the president.


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    No, (none / 0) (#111)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:09:14 PM EST
    I'm saying that Obama won the election in the shcool which shocked me.

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    Donald, I think you misinterpreted what (none / 0) (#112)
    by Anne on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:15:12 PM EST
    Georgia was saying; her and her husband's shock was because her son's school voted and the 300+ votes went to Obama - he won - which was why the kid with the winger dad had a meltdown.

    Personally, I hope there's a lot of winger meltdown on Tuesday, and I hope it starts early enough that I can really enjoy it.

    Assuming Obama wins, I will hardly be able to wait to get to work on Wednesday, as the little GOP tyrant whose office is around the corner from mine will be losing his teeny-tiny little mind.

    Parent

    Early enough (none / 0) (#116)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:32:50 PM EST
    could be Virginia and Ohio (and North Carolina?). With the Florida panhandle in the Central time zone you could have Ohio in the pocket before knowing anything of Florida. If Obama takes Virginia and Ohio you can go to sleep without worry.

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    yes (none / 0) (#119)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:37:44 PM EST
    we should have the TL winger meltdown club where we report back and post the meltdowns we are seeing at work and on facebook. I enjoy hearing your stories about the wingnut in your office. I think every office has one of those. I know I certainly have worked with a few of them.

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    Oh. Then if that's the case, ... (none / 0) (#129)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:21:00 PM EST
    ... I shall very happily stand corrected.

    GOBAMA.

    Parent

    I read it as... (none / 0) (#131)
    by unitron on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 12:31:47 AM EST
    300+ for Romney, 150 for Obama, but a big deal because that's about 150 more votes for Obama than expected there in redneckistan.

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    As polls closed for the day in South Florida (none / 0) (#107)
    by CoralGables on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 06:14:42 PM EST
    at 7:00 ET, (those in line still get to vote) the average wait time for those standing in line at the 20 voting sites in Miami is still 2 hours 40 minutes

    NYC (none / 0) (#108)
    by lentinel on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 06:27:06 PM EST
    marathon cancelled.

    GOP trying to steal ballots in WA (none / 0) (#110)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 06:52:09 PM EST
    We have all mail-in voting here in Washington. The King County Elections office is reporting that the GOP is sending out people who are going to try and convince voters to let them collect their ballots. Isn't that nice of them to offer? Except that there is no &@%#ing reason for anyone to go around collecting ballots. Voters can either mail it in or drop it off for free at a secured King County drop box.

    King County (which includes Seattle) is the most liberal county in the state and all the Republican candidates in the county are going to lose big. And the biggest portion of yes votes for R-74 (equal marriage rights) and I-502 (legalizing pot) will certainly come from King County. Gosh. Whaddya think they're gonna do with those DFH ballots when they get their hands on them?

    G*ddamm evil GOP.

    The Virginia voter registration investigation of (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Angel on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 08:35:32 PM EST
    Nathan Sproul's worker and firm is expanding according to article in the Washington Post this evening.

    Ditto your last sentence, shoephone.

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    GOP doing similar stuff here In Oregon. (none / 0) (#117)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:32:53 PM EST
    An employee at the Clackamas County elections office was found to have taken already returned ballots and marked any races left blank by the voter with a vote for the Republican candidate.

    Tampering with a ballot is a felony here. According to the news, this fraud was discovered when something the employee did triggered the election system's security measures.  No news on how many ballots were affected or how this will be corrected. The State Dept. of Justice and the Secretary of State are conducting the investigation.

    Clackamas County, which is just east and south of Portland, is a weird county that has more than the usual number of whackos. It is becoming more and more red with many people who consider Portland to be the modern equivalent of Sodom and Gomorrah. They are haunted by the idea of creeping Portlandism, which mostly seems to manifest as a deep-seated hatred of public transportation.

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    The NW GOP -- a special breed of wacko (none / 0) (#120)
    by shoephone on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:59:51 PM EST
    for sure. Though still in King County, I live just outside of Seattle and, believe me, the difference is sometimes startling. White, Christian Repubs everywhere. All married Stepfords with kids, looking for the perfect private or charter school to send little Susie and Johnny to. No blacks, no Jews (except me).  No wonder I'm in town everyday, among the civilized! And is it OK to admit that, other than the Portland pocket, and the tiny Ashland pocket, I think lots of areas of Oregon are just weird? (sorry)

    And isn't tampering with a ballot illegal everywhere? It's just that in so many places the perps are not prosecuted. Just look at how that knucklehead in Virginia isn't even being charged for dumping Democrats' registrations in the trash. It's insidious.

    I'd love to hear what happened to the perp in the case you stated.

    Parent

    The investigation is ongoing, and very little info (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by caseyOR on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:15:32 PM EST
    is being released just yet. I'll keep you posted as we get more information.

    Parent
    Actually, last I heard, ... (5.00 / 1) (#128)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:18:32 PM EST
    ... that guy in Virginia was arrested by the authorities, and he will probably be indicted by a grand jury if he hasn't been already.

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    The latest on the Virginia incident. (none / 0) (#135)
    by Angel on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 09:01:05 AM EST
    Isn't Tonya Harding (none / 0) (#134)
    by fishcamp on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 07:53:08 AM EST
    from out that way?

    Parent
    Why, yes she is. Tonya is a Clackamas County (none / 0) (#136)
    by caseyOR on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 02:46:25 PM EST
    native. She doesn't live there now, but she was living there when the infamous Nancy Kerrigan incident took place.

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    Did it in WI in the recall, doing it again (none / 0) (#122)
    by Towanda on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 08:47:56 PM EST
    for weeks now, along with other dirty tricks and voter-suppression tactics, in Wisconsin.  It was the ALEC training grounds, I think.  

    Complaints have been filed with the feds for more than a year now, since there is no recourse in Walker's Wisconsin.  But crickets from Holder, et al.

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    I predict a slew of lawsuits (none / 0) (#137)
    by shoephone on Sat Nov 03, 2012 at 04:33:11 PM EST
    from GOP lawyers crying voter fraud, Dem lawyers crying voter suppression. It's gonna be nasty.

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    Does (none / 0) (#118)
    by lentinel on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 07:33:25 PM EST
    anybody know what local or federal government is going to do to help those who lost their homes or their possessions due to the storm.

    TV stations are running appeals for people to donate to the Red Cross.

    But the government has already taken a sizable chunk of our money. I am asking what it will do for the victims of this nightmare.

    FEMA offers loans and grants to people without ins (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by womanwarrior on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 09:58:31 PM EST
    My sister's house was flooded last year in a major storm and her insurance company claimed she was not covered.  So she got a "loan" from FEMA that was forgiven when she showed it was applied to clean out and repair her home.  I think you will see, if you watch the news, that FEMA is bringing in generators, equipment for clearing debris, food, water, and basically what people need.  Am I misunderstanding your question?

    Parent
    Thanks (none / 0) (#130)
    by lentinel on Fri Nov 02, 2012 at 10:32:35 PM EST
    You have indeed responded to my question..

    I am interested in particular about what the government is doing for people in Staten island, NY, or other communities where people have had their homes destroyed or severely damaged.

    We have given a lot of tax money to state, local and federal government. How much of it will they spend to help us recover?

    Parent